[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
Is Acura going to reveal a new Legend at Pebble Beach this year?
More.......................
Honda reports February Sales
More.......................
Honda revealing production RWD prototype of Urban EV Concept at the Geneva International Motorshow
More.......................
BBC: Honda set to close Swindon factory in 2022
More.......................
Nikkei: Honda enters agreement with CATL for battery supply contract through 2027
More.......................
Acura Marks 30 Years Since Debut of Iconic NSX Supercar
More.......................
American Honda reports January sales
More.......................
Acura Marks 15th Anniversary of Super Handling All-Wheel Drive™
More.......................
General Talk --> Re: Honda / Acura Shakeup?
Join Discussion......
Type R --> Re: DC-R
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: How Acura orchestrated a massive turnaround with a renewed focus on design
Join Discussion......
Civic --> Re: I chose the Si over the GTI
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Car and Driver's new site.
Join Discussion......
Type R --> Re: Desmond Regamaster Installed!
Join Discussion......
Hot Deals --> Re: K-Tuner For Sale!!!
Join Discussion......
Amateur Racing & Driving --> Re: Vigor @ NCCAR Apexfest
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Accord-based CT5?!
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: 2024 Honda Le Mans Racecar.
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: IMSA - 2019 Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: F1 - 2019 Australian Grand Prix - Spoilers
Join Discussion......
Ridgeline - General Talk --> 2020 Ridgeline
Join Discussion......
Ridgeline - General Talk --> 2020 Ridgeline
Join Discussion......
Passport --> Re: Built an Elite.
Join Discussion......
2019 Honda Passport PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
2019 Acura NSX PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Acura ILX
Read Article....................
2019 Acura ILX PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Honda Pilot
Read Article....................
2019 Honda Pilot PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
TOV Forums > Pilot > > Re: Failing fuel injectors on 3rd Gen Pilots

Go to:

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - 1 [2]
Author
  Post New Thread
CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Failing fuel injectors on 3rd Gen Pilots    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-01-2019 19:40
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply

No...fixing this would not be a "secret warranty". It is called Goodwill...and we did it all the time in the M/C division. Too many Detroit retreads have infested Honda auto.


Mechanic
Profile for Mechanic
Re: Failing fuel injectors on 3rd Gen Pilots    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-02-2019 07:11
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
CB77 wrote:No...fixing this would not be a "secret warranty". It is called Goodwill...and we did it all the time in the M/C division. Too many Detroit retreads have infested Honda auto.

OK, let's correct an apparent misunderstanding with regard to the "secret warranty" law and the regulations administered by the NHTSA. First, the warranty provisions only pertain to the manufacturer (i.e., the issuer of the warranty). Thus, if a particular dealer (an independent franchisee) chooses to repair a vehicle beyond the warranty period (as a matter of "Goodwill"), that's entirely a matter within the dealer's descretion as a franchisee. The dealer may subsequently seek reimbursement from the manufacturer, but that, too, is a separate contractual issue between the franchisee and the franchisor. That, I'm guessing, is was what the manufacturer's representative was trying to explain to the OP, which he apparently didn't understand at the time and may not now.

CB77: jfi, NHTSA regs, as you know, pertain to automobiles, not marine craft, but I take your point.

Finally, for those who think that a class action of some sort is the potential solution for such matters, I encourage you to do a little research. The lawyers who practice in this area make out great; they've made an industry of it. Their fees, which often run into the millons of dollars, are compensated. That's their motivation: the fees. Plaintiffs, on the other hand, are lucky if they get any monetary ($) benefit. (Typically in cases involving automobiles, a judgment in favor of the plaintiffs comes in the form of an extended warranty or a discount on replacement parts, neither of which is worth a dime if -- as is usually the case in class action lawsuits -- the vehicles involved have been sold or traded.) But go for it.



CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Failing fuel injectors on 3rd Gen Pilots    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-02-2019 09:36
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Mechanic wrote:
CB77 wrote:No...fixing this would not be a "secret warranty". It is called Goodwill...and we did it all the time in the M/C division. Too many Detroit retreads have infested Honda auto.

OK, let's correct an apparent misunderstanding with regard to the "secret warranty" law and the regulations administered by the NHTSA. First, the warranty provisions only pertain to the manufacturer (i.e., the issuer of the warranty). Thus, if a particular dealer (an independent franchisee) chooses to repair a vehicle beyond the warranty period (as a matter of "Goodwill"), that's entirely a matter within the dealer's descretion as a franchisee. The dealer may subsequently seek reimbursement from the manufacturer, but that, too, is a separate contractual issue between the franchisee and the franchisor. That, I'm guessing, is was what the manufacturer's representative was trying to explain to the OP, which he apparently didn't understand at the time and may not now.

CB77: jfi, NHTSA regs, as you know, pertain to automobiles, not marine craft, but I take your point.

Finally, for those who think that a class action of some sort is the potential solution for such matters, I encourage you to do a little research. The lawyers who practice in this area make out great; they've made an industry of it. Their fees, which often run into the millons of dollars, are compensated. That's their motivation: the fees. Plaintiffs, on the other hand, are lucky if they get any monetary ($) benefit. (Typically in cases involving automobiles, a judgment in favor of the plaintiffs comes in the form of an extended warranty or a discount on replacement parts, neither of which is worth a dime if -- as is usually the case in class action lawsuits -- the vehicles involved have been sold or traded.) But go for it.





Nope...not the way it worked in our division when I was at Honda. The dealer would call his service rep, explain the situation and ask for coverage on the repair. If there were extenuating circumstances (an obvious factory defect...in a well-maintained vehicle), it was approved. Admittedly, I have been gone from Honda for a while, now...so perhaps the legal climate has worsened, making Honda hesitant to offer Goodwill repairs to the customer. If so, this is sad.

As I have said in earlier posts, Mr. Honda would have had a very hard time operating in today's business/legal climate. He would have said "Fix the damn car...get him back on the road!"

My, my...what a quaint attitude.



Mechanic
Profile for Mechanic
Re: Failing fuel injectors on 3rd Gen Pilots    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-02-2019 18:01
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
CB77: I defer to your experience. As they say in my work: Good to know the law; better to know the judge.
CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Failing fuel injectors on 3rd Gen Pilots    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-02-2019 18:36
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply

Mechanic...I am not saying you are wrong...in fact, in today's legal climate, you quite probably are right. But I think it is sad, as opposed to the way Soichiro wanted his customers treated.

Such shenanigans can quickly tarnish Honda's sterling reputation. Reputations are won slowly, but can be lost overnight.


TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Failing fuel injectors on 3rd Gen Pilots    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-05-2019 15:45
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
HondaForever wrote:
Now, to be fair, the rep gave me the impression that if I had complained and contacted them BEFORE the work was done, they might have been able to help, but having already paid for the work, they don’t give refunds.

Of course, I just happened to be out of town, away from my regular service guys and needed to have the car fixed so I could drive the 1200 miles back home. It was after I got home and researched the problem that I realized this was NOT an isolated incident and decided to call Honda.

Their response was “sorry, we don’t give refunds and you are out of warranty anyway”.

Which is why I am putting this here in case any of you run into this issue. If you have a 3rd Gen Pilot and I think some Ridgelines, don’t be surprised when that CEL light comes on. You’ve been warned.



Hmm... there is the problem.

The problem, IMHO, is the dealer. He took you to the cleaners.

The dealer in Bremerton, Washington -West Hills Honda (*)- did that to my son when he was in school up in the Puget Sound. The dealer did $1200 bucks of "repairs" to his Fit.

Now, it was my son't fault because his mother told him to have the service writer contact HER with the work request, but my son, Big Boy -or so he deemed himself, decided to approve the work: "whatever it needs".

$1200 bucks later, I called the dealer and the manager, to discuss how a set of tires and brakes could wear out in four months and 3000 miles and why the rear bushings needed to be replaced four months after the entire car had been completely checked out. The dealer gave me a run around, so I dropped the bomb and informed him that car was an ex-Associate lease car and had just exited the lease when we bought it, 3000 miles ago. Hmm...

Needless to say, my son had blown it because he was over 18 years old and stupidly gave the dealer carte blanche to steal.

I read the riot act to the owner/general manager of the dealership and complained to the AHM representative to the area -someone who likely belongs to the same work credit union as my wife... so, yeah, it was taken seriously.

It's usually the dealer. Not AHM. They will go out of their way to help, but the dealers can be assholes.

At this point, the best (only?) thing you can do is complain to AHM about the dealer and give him a black eye for what they did.

(*) Which totally pissed me off because back in '76, when they were Haselwood Honda on Kitsap Way my parents bought me a '76 CVCC off them.




TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Failing fuel injectors on 3rd Gen Pilots    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-05-2019 16:43
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
CB77 wrote:
Mechanic wrote:
CB77 wrote:No...fixing this would not be a "secret warranty". It is called Goodwill...and we did it all the time in the M/C division. Too many Detroit retreads have infested Honda auto.

OK, let's correct an apparent misunderstanding with regard to the "secret warranty" law and the regulations administered by the NHTSA. First, the warranty provisions only pertain to the manufacturer (i.e., the issuer of the warranty). Thus, if a particular dealer (an independent franchisee) chooses to repair a vehicle beyond the warranty period (as a matter of "Goodwill"), that's entirely a matter within the dealer's descretion as a franchisee. The dealer may subsequently seek reimbursement from the manufacturer, but that, too, is a separate contractual issue between the franchisee and the franchisor. That, I'm guessing, is was what the manufacturer's representative was trying to explain to the OP, which he apparently didn't understand at the time and may not now.

CB77: jfi, NHTSA regs, as you know, pertain to automobiles, not marine craft, but I take your point.

Finally, for those who think that a class action of some sort is the potential solution for such matters, I encourage you to do a little research. The lawyers who practice in this area make out great; they've made an industry of it. Their fees, which often run into the millons of dollars, are compensated. That's their motivation: the fees. Plaintiffs, on the other hand, are lucky if they get any monetary ($) benefit. (Typically in cases involving automobiles, a judgment in favor of the plaintiffs comes in the form of an extended warranty or a discount on replacement parts, neither of which is worth a dime if -- as is usually the case in class action lawsuits -- the vehicles involved have been sold or traded.) But go for it.





Nope...not the way it worked in our division when I was at Honda. The dealer would call his service rep, explain the situation and ask for coverage on the repair. If there were extenuating circumstances (an obvious factory defect...in a well-maintained vehicle), it was approved. Admittedly, I have been gone from Honda for a while, now...so perhaps the legal climate has worsened, making Honda hesitant to offer Goodwill repairs to the customer. If so, this is sad.

As I have said in earlier posts, Mr. Honda would have had a very hard time operating in today's business/legal climate. He would have said "Fix the damn car...get him back on the road!"

My, my...what a quaint attitude.





No, it's pretty much the same.

But sometimes you will run into a dealer who's a complete asshole.

Typically, you can go to another dealer but when you're on a 1200 mile trip it can be a real hassle.

This dealer is a complete asshole.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Failing fuel injectors on 3rd Gen Pilots    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-05-2019 16:53
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
HondaForever wrote:
JeffX wrote:
Nwct wrote:
For what it’s worth, same problem here with a 2016 Pilot EX-L 93K miles. My vin number falls in the “affected vehicles” range and the symptom was diagnosed by a dealer (P219A). The car is beyond warranty and so they will not cover, I was quoted
$1600 for parts alone! Probable cause states “injectors were installed improperly at the factory”. TSB was issued 2 years after the manufacture date. I called Honda USA, they said there is nothing they can do—I read the TSB back to him verbatim- How on earth is this legitimate? 3rd brand new honda purchased- time to find another manufacturer.




That is some bullshit. If you're comfortable sharing, in which part of the country are you located? I assume you escalated to the zone manager? That is a lot of miles for a 2-3 year old car but if it was their fault during assembly you'd think they'd cover it period.


Jeff, I went to my local service guy after I got back home, having had the same fuel injector problems on my 16 Pilot repaired out of state during a vacation trip where the problem first showed up. I paid for the repairs not knowing the history behind this problem. He got in touch with the guy I believe was the Zone Manager who said the best he could do was a $500 Honda card to be used only for Honda service. But he admitted that, considering my long affiliation with Honda that would be an insult and to contact Honda customer assistance. Well, after several weeks they came back and said THEY DON'T DO REFUNDS and if I had contacted them BEFORE the service was performed, they might have been "able to do something", whatever that "something" is. But how was I supposed to know this? The out of state service guys I went to didn't say a word to that effect to me.

I used to tell anybody who would listen about how Honda contacted me unprompted to replace the transmission on my 2002 Odyssey because they knew they had a design or manufacturing problem, even though at the time I was not experiencing any problems. I used to tout that as the mark of a true quality conscious company and it is partly what has kept me in the Honda family for all these years. Well, welcome to the new Honda.







You got ripped off by the out of state dealer who just wanted your money and figured he'd never see you again.

Did you file a formal complain with American Honda?

PS- It's not "Honda USA"... it's American Honda Motors, (aka AHM).

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Failing fuel injectors on 3rd Gen Pilots    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-05-2019 17:13
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
CB77 wrote:

Mechanic...I am not saying you are wrong...in fact, in today's legal climate, you quite probably are right. But I think it is sad, as opposed to the way Soichiro wanted his customers treated.

Such shenanigans can quickly tarnish Honda's sterling reputation. Reputations are won slowly, but can be lost overnight.




Look, my wife is not supposed to disclose employment, at all, when we take our private cars for service. So, we get sort of the same interface with service as a normal customer.

The Clarity, for example, is solely under my name, so my wife does get frustrated sometimes with the dealer. But such is life. But we still get good service because (a) it's the regular Clarity dealer and (b) we picked it up over there and get it maintained there.

In my experience, when you are dealing with your local or usual dealer they take care of you, will extend discounts and help you with goodwill warranties. With our 06 IMA Civic, an issue popped up at 95K miles and after 400 bucks of replacing a box, they didn't know what to do. So, they spoke and then I spoke with the local AHM rep and I asked for them to "spread the financial love" a little. And hopefully to call the factory to figure out what that strange IMA error was (No one seemed to know).

Anyhow, AHM did call the dealer and authorized all work and even came up with the info from the factory. Turns out the problem was a shorted wire from the back -"NO, meant NO data"... a wire the dealer's own body shop had replaced when the rear bumper was replaced. We were never charged a dime.

OTOH, when the RDX threw a Christmas Light error during a trip to Seattle, 1200 miles away, the local Honda dealer didn't want to touch it. Only when we disclosed to the dealer that it was an AHM car, and subsequently AHM approved the work to pull the error codes, did the initial work get done.

The Tacoma Acura dealer would not touch it. Again, AHM's ownership to the rescue which overcame the dealer being too "busy" to even look at it at first. As it was, they didn't fix it but "sort of verified" it would not leave us stranded somewhere on the I5 around Roseburg, OR.

So, the issue is really with the dealer. If the dealer knows you, they treat you well, but those out of State dealerships can treat you like crap.

Perhaps this is something that AHM should really look into.

In particular, the Fife, WA, Acura dealership... What a cluster fuck that place is.







HondaForever
Profile for HondaForever
Re: Failing fuel injectors on 3rd Gen Pilots    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-05-2019 17:48
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
HondaForever wrote:
JeffX wrote:
Nwct wrote:
For what it’s worth, same problem here with a 2016 Pilot EX-L 93K miles. My vin number falls in the “affected vehicles” range and the symptom was diagnosed by a dealer (P219A). The car is beyond warranty and so they will not cover, I was quoted
$1600 for parts alone! Probable cause states “injectors were installed improperly at the factory”. TSB was issued 2 years after the manufacture date. I called Honda USA, they said there is nothing they can do—I read the TSB back to him verbatim- How on earth is this legitimate? 3rd brand new honda purchased- time to find another manufacturer.




That is some bullshit. If you're comfortable sharing, in which part of the country are you located? I assume you escalated to the zone manager? That is a lot of miles for a 2-3 year old car but if it was their fault during assembly you'd think they'd cover it period.


Jeff, I went to my local service guy after I got back home, having had the same fuel injector problems on my 16 Pilot repaired out of state during a vacation trip where the problem first showed up. I paid for the repairs not knowing the history behind this problem. He got in touch with the guy I believe was the Zone Manager who said the best he could do was a $500 Honda card to be used only for Honda service. But he admitted that, considering my long affiliation with Honda that would be an insult and to contact Honda customer assistance. Well, after several weeks they came back and said THEY DON'T DO REFUNDS and if I had contacted them BEFORE the service was performed, they might have been "able to do something", whatever that "something" is. But how was I supposed to know this? The out of state service guys I went to didn't say a word to that effect to me.

I used to tell anybody who would listen about how Honda contacted me unprompted to replace the transmission on my 2002 Odyssey because they knew they had a design or manufacturing problem, even though at the time I was not experiencing any problems. I used to tout that as the mark of a true quality conscious company and it is partly what has kept me in the Honda family for all these years. Well, welcome to the new Honda.







You got ripped off by the out of state dealer who just wanted your money and figured he'd never see you again.

Did you file a formal complain with American Honda?

PS- It's not "Honda USA"... it's American Honda Motors, (aka AHM).



I called and talked to Honda customer support. Please read the complete trail of postings. The complete story is here.


 
Thread Page - 1 [2]
Go to:
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2018 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy
30 mobile: 0