Dano
 |
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Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
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incubus
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You could buy it and do both yourself...
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TonyEX
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Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
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(1) It can be done with the aftermarket.
(2) Keep looking at the future ILX. That will tell you whether or not _your_ car will exist.
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supafamous
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Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
|
Honda rarely adds powers during the MMC so it'll be the FMC when that happens. They've also said that the engine is at its limits for their reliability requirements so I'd be surprised that it gains much more in the FMC, maybe 10 more.
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rev2damoon
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Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
|
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath as for as more power goes. Honda has been incredibly stubborn, obtuse and overly conservative with this model after the 8th gen Si. The bean counters have had a stranglehold on it, and it actually not surprise me if Honda killed it with the next gen Civic. The reasoning will be weak sales.
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None
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|
Only way Honda will add more sales, add an automatic.
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superchg2
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rev2damoon wrote:
Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
|
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath as for as more power goes. Honda has been incredibly stubborn, obtuse and overly conservative with this model after the 8th gen Si. The bean counters have had a stranglehold on it, and it actually not surprise me if Honda killed it with the next gen Civic. The reasoning will be weak sales.
|
The 2.0T would seem to be a no-brainer drop in, but alas, the bean counters seem to rule the day.
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rev2damoon
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superchg2 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
|
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath as for as more power goes. Honda has been incredibly stubborn, obtuse and overly conservative with this model after the 8th gen Si. The bean counters have had a stranglehold on it, and it actually not surprise me if Honda killed it with the next gen Civic. The reasoning will be weak sales.
|
The 2.0T would seem to be a no-brainer drop in, but alas, the bean counters seem to rule the day.
|
🤣
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NSXman
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rev2damoon wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
|
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath as for as more power goes. Honda has been incredibly stubborn, obtuse and overly conservative with this model after the 8th gen Si. The bean counters have had a stranglehold on it, and it actually not surprise me if Honda killed it with the next gen Civic. The reasoning will be weak sales.
|
The 2.0T would seem to be a no-brainer drop in, but alas, the bean counters seem to rule the day.
|
🤣
|
Not that I wouldn't want a 2.0T Civic Si, but what is the issue with bean counters running a business? Beans must be balanced at the end of the day, and one could bring up other poor examples of companies and ideas where where engineers rule the day.
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rev2damoon
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NSXman wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
|
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath as for as more power goes. Honda has been incredibly stubborn, obtuse and overly conservative with this model after the 8th gen Si. The bean counters have had a stranglehold on it, and it actually not surprise me if Honda killed it with the next gen Civic. The reasoning will be weak sales.
|
The 2.0T would seem to be a no-brainer drop in, but alas, the bean counters seem to rule the day.
|
🤣
|
Not that I wouldn't want a 2.0T Civic Si, but what is the issue with bean counters running a business? Beans must be balanced at the end of the day, and one could bring up other poor examples of companies and ideas where where engineers rule the day.
|
I certainly don't have a problem with bean counters 'playing their part' in running a business. They have their place. The goal is to maximize profit, right? What I do have a problem with is Honda screwing with a model like the Si, cutting corners and putting an engine in the car which has absolutely no place for this application (see the multitude of reasons for this in various threads here). The Si has simply not progressed enough since the 8th gen. This is my opinion and it is shared by many. So, count beans, but be careful that the 'product' does not suffer for it.
As it stands, Honda has created situation where there is a huge gap between the Si and the R. It is utterly ludicrous and it happened because somebody got a little happy counting beans. The folks inside Honda who wanted the 2.0T for the Si knew what was up. Too bad they lost the battle. We may ALL lose in the end when Honda kills off the model.
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superchg2
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|
rev2damoon wrote:
NSXman wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
|
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath as for as more power goes. Honda has been incredibly stubborn, obtuse and overly conservative with this model after the 8th gen Si. The bean counters have had a stranglehold on it, and it actually not surprise me if Honda killed it with the next gen Civic. The reasoning will be weak sales.
|
The 2.0T would seem to be a no-brainer drop in, but alas, the bean counters seem to rule the day.
|
🤣
|
Not that I wouldn't want a 2.0T Civic Si, but what is the issue with bean counters running a business? Beans must be balanced at the end of the day, and one could bring up other poor examples of companies and ideas where where engineers rule the day.
|
I certainly don't have a problem with bean counters 'playing their part' in running a business. They have their place. The goal is to maximize profit, right? What I do have a problem with is Honda screwing with a model like the Si, cutting corners and putting an engine in the car which has absolutely no place for this application (see the multitude of reasons for this in various threads here). The Si has simply not progressed enough since the 8th gen. This is my opinion and it is shared by many. So, count beans, but be careful that the 'product' does not suffer for it.
As it stands, Honda has created situation where there is a huge gap between the Si and the R. It is utterly ludicrous and it happened because somebody got a little happy counting beans. The folks inside Honda who wanted the 2.0T for the Si knew what was up. Too bad they lost the battle. We may ALL lose in the end when Honda kills off the model.
|
Honda seems to fall back to "just good enough" from time to time.
The HRV is screaming out for the 1.5T, and didn't get it.
The Accord Sport really would benefit from an LSD and the 1.5 Si comes up short of the competition.
It would be nice to see Honda go back to producing more cars that have a little bit extra.
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NealX
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superchg2 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
NSXman wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
|
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath as for as more power goes. Honda has been incredibly stubborn, obtuse and overly conservative with this model after the 8th gen Si. The bean counters have had a stranglehold on it, and it actually not surprise me if Honda killed it with the next gen Civic. The reasoning will be weak sales.
|
The 2.0T would seem to be a no-brainer drop in, but alas, the bean counters seem to rule the day.
|
🤣
|
Not that I wouldn't want a 2.0T Civic Si, but what is the issue with bean counters running a business? Beans must be balanced at the end of the day, and one could bring up other poor examples of companies and ideas where where engineers rule the day.
|
I certainly don't have a problem with bean counters 'playing their part' in running a business. They have their place. The goal is to maximize profit, right? What I do have a problem with is Honda screwing with a model like the Si, cutting corners and putting an engine in the car which has absolutely no place for this application (see the multitude of reasons for this in various threads here). The Si has simply not progressed enough since the 8th gen. This is my opinion and it is shared by many. So, count beans, but be careful that the 'product' does not suffer for it.
As it stands, Honda has created situation where there is a huge gap between the Si and the R. It is utterly ludicrous and it happened because somebody got a little happy counting beans. The folks inside Honda who wanted the 2.0T for the Si knew what was up. Too bad they lost the battle. We may ALL lose in the end when Honda kills off the model.
|
Honda seems to fall back to "just good enough" from time to time.
The HRV is screaming out for the 1.5T, and didn't get it.
The Accord Sport really would benefit from an LSD and the 1.5 Si comes up short of the competition.
It would be nice to see Honda go back to producing more cars that have a little bit extra.
|
Those are called ACURA.
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superchg2
|
|
NealX wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
NSXman wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
|
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath as for as more power goes. Honda has been incredibly stubborn, obtuse and overly conservative with this model after the 8th gen Si. The bean counters have had a stranglehold on it, and it actually not surprise me if Honda killed it with the next gen Civic. The reasoning will be weak sales.
|
The 2.0T would seem to be a no-brainer drop in, but alas, the bean counters seem to rule the day.
|
🤣
|
Not that I wouldn't want a 2.0T Civic Si, but what is the issue with bean counters running a business? Beans must be balanced at the end of the day, and one could bring up other poor examples of companies and ideas where where engineers rule the day.
|
I certainly don't have a problem with bean counters 'playing their part' in running a business. They have their place. The goal is to maximize profit, right? What I do have a problem with is Honda screwing with a model like the Si, cutting corners and putting an engine in the car which has absolutely no place for this application (see the multitude of reasons for this in various threads here). The Si has simply not progressed enough since the 8th gen. This is my opinion and it is shared by many. So, count beans, but be careful that the 'product' does not suffer for it.
As it stands, Honda has created situation where there is a huge gap between the Si and the R. It is utterly ludicrous and it happened because somebody got a little happy counting beans. The folks inside Honda who wanted the 2.0T for the Si knew what was up. Too bad they lost the battle. We may ALL lose in the end when Honda kills off the model.
|
Honda seems to fall back to "just good enough" from time to time.
The HRV is screaming out for the 1.5T, and didn't get it.
The Accord Sport really would benefit from an LSD and the 1.5 Si comes up short of the competition.
It would be nice to see Honda go back to producing more cars that have a little bit extra.
|
Those are called ACURA.
|
Their SUV's are doing pretty well. Their sedans are pretty much a Snore.
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supafamous
|
|
rev2damoon wrote:
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath as for as more power goes. Honda has been incredibly stubborn, obtuse and overly conservative with this model after the 8th gen Si. The bean counters have had a stranglehold on it, and it actually not surprise me if Honda killed it with the next gen Civic. The reasoning will be weak sales.
|
AIUI, because the Civic chassis is shared with the CR-V and Accord it's not particularly profitable (I picked this up via Motor Trend's insider column). At the same time the K20C4 motor is a lot more expensive to build the the 1.5T so unless the plan is to jack the price up on the Si I can't see Honda doing it unless the plan is to lose money on it.
Myself? I wouldn't mind seeing the Si setup on the hatchback. That'd be a great little ride.
|
Design
|
|
I don't ever see them migrating to the 2.0T unless they find a way to maintain the current fuel economy stats, or rebrand the Si altogether. I do think 225-230 HP is achievable with the 1.5T, providing Honda is willing to 1) do a slightly larger turbo and 2) pair it with variable lift to help mitigate throttle response.
Realistically, I see a 5-10 HP bump for the next gen.
|
wyy183
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|
LED's are easy. On my 2017 Si I simply purchased LED replacement bulbs. About $50/set. Three sets - low, high, and fog.
Amazing difference it visibility.
The "stock" LED's in other Honda vehicles are no comparison for the replacement bulbs. The replacement bulbs are significantly better for seeing everything.
My wife, after seeing how much better she could see, insisted that I put LED's in her 2014 Pilot. Happy wife!
You do have to ensure proper alignment after installation.
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superchg2
|
|
Design wrote:
I don't ever see them migrating to the 2.0T unless they find a way to maintain the current fuel economy stats, or rebrand the Si altogether. I do think 225-230 HP is achievable with the 1.5T, providing Honda is willing to 1) do a slightly larger turbo and 2) pair it with variable lift to help mitigate throttle response.
Realistically, I see a 5-10 HP bump for the next gen.
|
I wouldn't think that the Si would need to be a mileage maker as low as its production rate is, and the 2.0T gets decent mileage in the Accord and CTR's.
Also, with all of that extra torque, the 6 speed's gearing could be changed for higher fuel economy.
|
superchg2
|
|
superchg2 wrote:
Design wrote:
I don't ever see them migrating to the 2.0T unless they find a way to maintain the current fuel economy stats, or rebrand the Si altogether. I do think 225-230 HP is achievable with the 1.5T, providing Honda is willing to 1) do a slightly larger turbo and 2) pair it with variable lift to help mitigate throttle response.
Realistically, I see a 5-10 HP bump for the next gen.
|
I wouldn't think that the Si would need to be a mileage maker as low as its production rate is, and the 2.0T gets decent mileage in the Accord and CTR's.
Also, with all of that extra torque, the 6 speed's gearing could be changed for higher fuel economy.
|
My '06 Si has 23 city and 32 mpg hwy on the window sticker (I get 28 mpg), and if they offered one, I bet a 2.0T SiR would beat that easily!
|
owequitit
|
|
rev2damoon wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
|
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath as for as more power goes. Honda has been incredibly stubborn, obtuse and overly conservative with this model after the 8th gen Si. The bean counters have had a stranglehold on it, and it actually not surprise me if Honda killed it with the next gen Civic. The reasoning will be weak sales.
|
The 2.0T would seem to be a no-brainer drop in, but alas, the bean counters seem to rule the day.
|
🤣
|
Bean counters tend to not be able to see beyond a spreadsheet. Bean counters have their place, just as engineers do, but leadership needs to transcend both and be able to "see the forest through the trees." In other words, the people calling the shots need to have vision and understand the world beyond the spreadsheet. If you look at 100% of successful leadership, regardless of industry or business strategy, they all know their market, they know their role and they know how to deliver the best product to that market.
Let us not forget that the "bean counters" at Honda have given us such turds and flops as the ZDX, ILX, RLX, Gen II Insight, CR-Z, 4th gen TL, etc etc. Literally billions in losses that would have easily either A) been better spent on 1 or 2 products that actually hit its market, or B) making something like the Si more relevant to its market place.
In the end, people can defend it all they want, but we have already seen what happens when bean counters en extremis get ahold of too much power as we watched it first hand with the D3.
|
Design
|
|
superchg2 wrote:
Design wrote:
I don't ever see them migrating to the 2.0T unless they find a way to maintain the current fuel economy stats, or rebrand the Si altogether. I do think 225-230 HP is achievable with the 1.5T, providing Honda is willing to 1) do a slightly larger turbo and 2) pair it with variable lift to help mitigate throttle response.
Realistically, I see a 5-10 HP bump for the next gen.
|
I wouldn't think that the Si would need to be a mileage maker as low as its production rate is, and the 2.0T gets decent mileage in the Accord and CTR's.
Also, with all of that extra torque, the 6 speed's gearing could be changed for higher fuel economy.
|
I would imagine it's already optimized in the Accord, which is 26 combined on the 6MT (32 hwy). I don't see a 2.0T Si fairing much better.
I'm personally not hung up on fuel economy numbers. But I know the bean counters are. And a 3-5 MPG drop might raise some eyebrows among the conservatives. :(
|
typer_801
|
|
The revised EPA City and Highway MPG values for the 2006 Civic Si are 20 and 29 based on the changes made circa 2009.
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/comparempg.shtml#id=22675
superchg2 wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
Design wrote:
I don't ever see them migrating to the 2.0T unless they find a way to maintain the current fuel economy stats, or rebrand the Si altogether. I do think 225-230 HP is achievable with the 1.5T, providing Honda is willing to 1) do a slightly larger turbo and 2) pair it with variable lift to help mitigate throttle response.
Realistically, I see a 5-10 HP bump for the next gen.
|
I wouldn't think that the Si would need to be a mileage maker as low as its production rate is, and the 2.0T gets decent mileage in the Accord and CTR's.
Also, with all of that extra torque, the 6 speed's gearing could be changed for higher fuel economy.
|
My '06 Si has 23 city and 32 mpg hwy on the window sticker (I get 28 mpg), and if they offered one, I bet a 2.0T SiR would beat that easily!
|
|
Design
|
|
Another interesting comparo of each Si during their maiden year:
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=22675&id=30604&id=17556&id=14872
|
Dano
|
|
I'd be interested to know which LED replacement bulb sets you purchased.
|
Dano
|
|
Canada gets the LED headlights as standard equipment on the Civic Si. What doesn't the U.S. get the same?
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qingcong
|
|
I don't really like the 2.0T in an Si. The Si is supposed to be about pushing the limits, an engine that screams. A 240hp detuned 2.0T engine doesn't seem like it would have the right character for an Si engine.
|
owequitit
|
|
qingcong wrote:
I don't really like the 2.0T in an Si. The Si is supposed to be about pushing the limits, an engine that screams. A 240hp detuned 2.0T engine doesn't seem like it would have the right character for an Si engine.
|
And an engine that pretty much falls on its face at 5500RPM and can barely hit 6.5K (and has a ton of NVH while doing it) meets that criteria?
Having driven both, the 2.0T is FAR superior in terms of revvability, power delivery, top end pull and NVH.
|
NSXman
|
|
owequitit wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
Dano wrote:
Might be a redundant question that has been asked before. If so I apologize for that. I would buy if it had 1) more horsepower (230+ is all I ask!) and 2) standard LED headlights. For me it is a GREAT car now and doesn't need a lot of other stuff. However, with the two items above I would immediately buy it.
|
Personally I wouldn't hold my breath as for as more power goes. Honda has been incredibly stubborn, obtuse and overly conservative with this model after the 8th gen Si. The bean counters have had a stranglehold on it, and it actually not surprise me if Honda killed it with the next gen Civic. The reasoning will be weak sales.
|
The 2.0T would seem to be a no-brainer drop in, but alas, the bean counters seem to rule the day.
|
🤣
|
Bean counters tend to not be able to see beyond a spreadsheet. Bean counters have their place, just as engineers do, but leadership needs to transcend both and be able to "see the forest through the trees." In other words, the people calling the shots need to have vision and understand the world beyond the spreadsheet. If you look at 100% of successful leadership, regardless of industry or business strategy, they all know their market, they know their role and they know how to deliver the best product to that market.
Let us not forget that the "bean counters" at Honda have given us such turds and flops as the ZDX, ILX, RLX, Gen II Insight, CR-Z, 4th gen TL, etc etc. Literally billions in losses that would have easily either A) been better spent on 1 or 2 products that actually hit its market, or B) making something like the Si more relevant to its market place.
In the end, people can defend it all they want, but we have already seen what happens when bean counters en extremis get ahold of too much power as we watched it first hand with the D3.
|
I guess I fail to see how "bean counters" were responsible for the ZDX or the 4th Gen TL. That wasn't accountants or engineers...they (the TL in particular) were cars built around a child's crayon drawing. It was an effort to be edgy and trendy that horribly failed.
The ILX, Insight, et al. Yeah, just being cheap and trying to get an easy score.
But to my original point, running a company is indeed about balance, but I don't think labeling every bad decision as one made by a "bean counter" is accurate. There are plenty of automotive examples where engineers got too much power and needed some financial discipline to be reigned in.
|
qingcong
|
|
owequitit wrote:
And an engine that pretty much falls on its face at 5500RPM and can barely hit 6.5K (and has a ton of NVH while doing it) meets that criteria?
Having driven both, the 2.0T is FAR superior in terms of revvability, power delivery, top end pull and NVH.
|
Obviously the 1.5T is an even worse choice.
|
rev2damoon
|
|
The ZDX and 4th gen TL were based on econo Honda platforms not conducive to proper/desirable proportions which is why they had such atrocious proportions with mile-long front overhangs. There were other problems with those two particular models, but that was certainly a big one.
They were in fact, the product of "Smart Luxury" which had bean counters' fingerprints all over it.
"Hey let's grab an econo-based Honda platform and build a BMW X6 fighter with screwed up proportions and skinny wheels that make it look like it's sitting on stilts. We'll make tons of cash off these things because people don't pay attention to that sort of stuff in that market, man. SWEET, they'll be non-the-wiser, and we'll laugh all the way to the bank."......
Tried to save a buck by grabbing a Honda platform off the shelf and jumping into a league where they were obviously out of their depth with what they brought to the table. Wasted time and money is what that was. Pretty ironic if you ask me.
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Karl O.
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My buddy has a tune and an intake and downpipe and exhaust on his '18 Si coupe. I'm pretty sure it will walk my S2000 in a straight line.
I think it's supposed to be making 270-ish at the crank? Dunno how long that engine lasts at that power level, but that car moves.
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