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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Carlos Ghosn arrested! He gone

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Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Carlos Ghosn arrested! He gone    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-21-2018 07:56
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I'm certain I now know a fraction of the background story here but I'm not seeing any Japanese honor in any of it. Renault is simply seeking a return on investment (it's bidness!) and Nissan was happy with their agreement when they were desperate for cash. I wasn't surprised the Nissan leadership that ran its product mix into the ground then turned to Renault. Maybe this move shouldn't be surprising either.

Nissan's board must be smart enough to know Renault doesn't go away simply because they purged Ghosn from the picture. They may think they've removed the conduit for Renault to forcibly direct Nissan but they must suspect Renault has its own brainiacs available. What would Carl Icahn do, in other words.

I bet there are folks within Honda who are thanking their stars right now they're still an independent.

Vtec_rally
Profile for Vtec_rally
Re: Carlos Ghosn arrested! He gone    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-21-2018 08:49
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Additional insight into what's happening at present. http://europe.autonews.com/article/20181121/ANE/181129932?template=mobile02&X-IgnoreUserAgent=1



I used to be a huge Nissan fanboy, so I'm finding this story intriguing. Renault has helped them with profitability and cutting costs but I also miss the quality and engineering of their pre-alliance cars i.e the 240 sx, 300 zx twin turbo and previous generations of the GTR such as the R34. Though I do like the present generation GTR.

Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
Re: Carlos Ghosn arrested! He gone    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-21-2018 21:24
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I don't believe this for a moment. The politics between the protectionist and corporately nationalistic Japanese and French governments between the possible merger were going sour, and the timing of this along with the weaselly conduct of Nissan CEO Saikawa, who looks like he's pulling off a coup is too much to be mere coincidence.

Nissan is acting like Renault is robbing them when they wouldn't exist if Renault didn't save them in 1999. Their only other alternative was Daimler under Schrempp. As if that would been better...

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Carlos Ghosn arrested! He gone    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-21-2018 23:32
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I can well understand the Japanese being miffed by the idea of loosing a lot of their identity in a proposed merger, but I feel they should have found a more honorable way to achieve their aim. But that pre-supposes Ghosn was willing to entertain, let alone accept, a more equitable solution??

It'll all come out in the wash, eventually.

Vtec_rally
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Re: Carlos Ghosn arrested! He gone    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-22-2019 11:03
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The plot thickens. https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ghosn-agrees-resign-renault-chairman-and-ceo-reports-say

I see a real war brewing between these two car companies. Renault and the French government would like to make the alliance irreversible, which makes sense as Nissan generates the majority of its profits and is the technological leader. I doubt Nissan wants to become a subsidiary of Renault though.

They should just unwind the cross shareholdings, which provides Nissan with little say in anything anyways and do something that is more loose like what Ford and VW are embarking on. It doesn't sound like the culture of either company meshes well with the other.

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Carlos Ghosn arrested! He gone    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-22-2019 16:55
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Vtec_rally wrote:
The plot thickens. https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ghosn-agrees-resign-renault-chairman-and-ceo-reports-say

I see a real war brewing between these two car companies. Renault and the French government would like to make the alliance irreversible, which makes sense as Nissan generates the majority of its profits and is the technological leader. I doubt Nissan wants to become a subsidiary of Renault though.

They should just unwind the cross shareholdings, which provides Nissan with little say in anything anyways and do something that is more loose like what Ford and VW are embarking on. It doesn't sound like the culture of either company meshes well with the other.



Still much we don't know but I'm definitely getting a vibe of Nissan and Japanese government playing a dirty game trying to eliminate Renault's influence.

Bad juju on the horizon.

SC

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Carlos Ghosn arrested! He gone    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-23-2019 05:59
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notyper wrote:
Vtec_rally wrote:
The plot thickens. https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ghosn-agrees-resign-renault-chairman-and-ceo-reports-say

I see a real war brewing between these two car companies. Renault and the French government would like to make the alliance irreversible, which makes sense as Nissan generates the majority of its profits and is the technological leader. I doubt Nissan wants to become a subsidiary of Renault though.

They should just unwind the cross shareholdings, which provides Nissan with little say in anything anyways and do something that is more loose like what Ford and VW are embarking on. It doesn't sound like the culture of either company meshes well with the other.



Still much we don't know but I'm definitely getting a vibe of Nissan and Japanese government playing a dirty game trying to eliminate Renault's influence.

Bad juju on the horizon.

SC



It's been smelling that way for some considerable time now, whilst poor Carlos The Goon continues to rot in jail.

Of course these days, calling it a 'conspiracy theory' dismisses all objections without further process, yet the same never applies to the fall guy...

Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
Re: Carlos Ghosn arrested! He gone    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-29-2019 18:06
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The Nikkei Review runs an editorial saying that the charges against Ghosn are trumped up.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Ghosn-charges-are-thin-soup-case-for-ex-Nissan-boss

I met with a relatively high-profile American Honda engineer at a car show, and he talked about the major role the US R&D team was playing at Honda. This is the kind of company I want to support and it shows how lasting Soichiro's values are. The Japanese government and business establishment never treated Honda right until the 1980's anyways.

I'm a firm believer that a company should have the right person for a job and that nationalism has no place in the business sector. After all, I'm doing more for the American economy if I bought an Accord made in Ohio than a Buick made in China.

I'm not buying a Nissan (yeah, I know, poor me) nor driving a Nissan if I have a choice with the fact that their machinations did this to the man who saved them. If they didn't want Carlos Ghosn and Renault, they should have made better decisions in the 1990's.

Vtec_rally
Profile for Vtec_rally
Re: Carlos Ghosn arrested! He gone    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-29-2019 20:04
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Well, Renault is basically a state company, 15% owned by the French government. Ghosn definitely deserves credit for turning around Nissan.

I guess the idea from the Nissan side from what I've read in numerous publications is that they feel like they've repaid their debt to Renault for their support during the late 90's and early 2000's. The facts speak for themselves, as Nissan contributes huge profits to Renault's bottom line and leads the way on many technological as well as engineering initiatives. (Nissan has always had first rate engineering chops). From what I've read, they now want a bit more independence. These capital alliances are never forever, most automotive analysts believe the capital structure is due for a revamp. The French government wants nothing to do with that. They have French car factories to think of, many Nissan cars are now built in those factories and an angry populous.

As for Ghosn, I'm not convinced that he is not guilty of many of the crimes he's charged with. When one man has so much power at three companies, the possibilities for corruption only increase. It's probably not a coincidence that he was arrested at the same time that the French government was pushing him to make "the alliance" irreversible for their own benefit. But that still doesn't convince me that he is innocent of all the charges against him.

I think car companies are unique entities compared to other sectors, as they usually evoke higher feelings of patriotic nationalism then other business areas in their native lands.

It will be interesting to see how the Ghosn trial progresses.


 
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