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TOV Forums > Audio & Electronics > > Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing

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TonyEX
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Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-08-2019 01:28
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superchg2 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:

Wow, man! If you can figure out a way to make NAND less fragile it means you've found new physics and deserve a Nobel Price.



Have you been drinking, again?



Jesus H. Christ.

Can you add anything of value to this discussion? All you do is throw ad hominem attacks which add nothing but innuendo.

Just to add value.... do you understand how NAND and the firmware that manages it work?

The NAND is made of of "cells", a special transistor that includes a fourth gate. This gate allows the introduction of a charge. You don't write a cell by itself, instead you enable the fourth gate into a "word line" of cells and you write the whole block of data into the line. Typically these blocks are pretty large. Nowadays it is common to write at least in 4KB blocks, although we are moving into 64KB blocks because it's very hard to provide so many lines when your total storage goes above 16TB. If you keep it under 1TB, you can still keep those blocks at 4KB.

Now, the FW is usually is split into three components: Front End (the bus interface), the FMS -Flash Logical Management- and the Back End (FM) -Flash management.

FM is what keeps your flash storage alive. Flash decays with time because the state of the electrical charge in the flash decays with time. Heat accelerates the decay due to entropy -it makes those electrons cross the gate down to the ground via the base to emitter path. This is due to the energy intro by heat into the NAND transistors.

Normally, electrons will still move to ground because there is always some energy flowing into the system (entropy), but more heat accelerates the process. That's why I wrote that keeping your NAND storage in the freezer is the best way to ensure the NAND cells keep their charge.

When the stick is powered, FM will ensure that as the storage ages, it can still be written. If a "line" requires multiple reads to get the data, then it is considered unreliable, it is read and then rewritten into another line.

Since flash is write limited -it "wears out" at some point, you will reach a case where there is not enough storage as published (say 64Gb)... and then the FW will "brick" the storage. This is because as storage becomes unreliable, it is removed from the available list and it is replaced by some storage from the overprovisioned blocks. At some point you run out of the overprovisioning and any loss of storage impacts the published storage figure. This is a hard threshold.

There are several ways to address this. One of them is to "overprovisioning", that is to publish less storage that is actually available. In the enterprise product lines, we do a huge amount of over provisioning, but in commercial products, the price points are very touchy, hence we can not do this and still hold the line on the price.

That is why I point out not to use flash products for archival. In enterprise products, the host software will query the status of the storage -it can see how it's wearing out- and at some point it will copy out all of the storage out that SDD and declare it unfit for further use. This way, in commercial storage, they can manage their SDDs without having to resort to running any kind of RAID.

Magnetic hard drives are much more robust. They hold their charge for much longer -but they still have a similar issue. it's just that their wearing out time lines are much longer.

There.

Do you know what Read Before Write means?

Do you understand how thermodynamics affects electronics?

https://blog.silicon-power.com/index.php/guides/nand-flash-memory-technology-basics/

https://www.micron.com/products/nand-flash/choosing-the-right-nand

Then you got SLC, MLC and TLC....







superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-08-2019 04:01
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TonyEX wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:

Wow, man! If you can figure out a way to make NAND less fragile it means you've found new physics and deserve a Nobel Price.



Have you been drinking, again?



Jesus H. Christ.

Can you add anything of value to this discussion? All you do is throw ad hominem attacks which add nothing but innuendo.



Sorry TonyEX, it wasn't meant as an attack, just a little humor.

THX17201
Profile for THX17201
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-08-2019 08:32
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TonyEX wrote:


Can you add anything of value to this discussion?



Such as tomato plants, that he could write better software than iOS, doing burnouts on college campuses, cigars, calling various ethnic groups names, etc.?

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-08-2019 11:16
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THX17201 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:


Can you add anything of value to this discussion?



Such as tomato plants, that he could write better software than iOS, doing burnouts on college campuses, cigars, calling various ethnic groups names, etc.?


Other than his coming off like a Braggart, that about sums it up.



TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-08-2019 13:39
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superchg2 wrote:
THX17201 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:


Can you add anything of value to this discussion?



Such as tomato plants, that he could write better software than iOS, doing burnouts on college campuses, cigars, calling various ethnic groups names, etc.?


Other than his coming off like a Braggart, that about sums it up.





Go on.... at least I add some entertainment and information to the threads, you guys are a bunch of jealous vinegar pusses.


TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-08-2019 13:45
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THX17201 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:


Can you add anything of value to this discussion?



Such as tomato plants, that he could write better software than iOS, doing burnouts on college campuses, cigars, calling various ethnic groups names, etc.?



Back to the point... do you know how Flash storage works? Do you know why you shouldn't rely on it for your main storage in your car? Do you know how to extend its life in your car's environment?

I just told you how and why.

And yes, my tomatoes are still going fine. I got three plants that are doing well except with this cold weather the flowers don't pollinate, so I only got like 20 or so tomatoes right now, if I pick them and bring them inside they will ripen in about two weeks.

Besides, IOS is a layer around Unix. I use Ubuntu and write code and scripts for it when I need it, so yes, as a matter of fact, I think IOS is crap. In fact, I also think that Android is crap. Not the OS per se, but the applications and User Interfaces that go with it.

And doing burnouts if fun. I'm sorry if your car has no power.

Ethnic group names, fuck off.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-08-2019 14:05
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TonyEX wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
THX17201 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:


Can you add anything of value to this discussion?



Such as tomato plants, that he could write better software than iOS, doing burnouts on college campuses, cigars, calling various ethnic groups names, etc.?


Other than his coming off like a Braggart, that about sums it up.





Go on.... at least I add some entertainment and information to the threads, you guys are a bunch of jealous vinegar pusses.



While I might talk about our 2 Honda's on TOV, I really don't think that anyone wants to hear about the other things that I have, and it does seem like you are bragging about all of the things that you have, a lot.

Other than joking about you having a drink occasionally, I am not going to get into a name calling contest with you.


TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-08-2019 15:45
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superchg2 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
THX17201 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:


Can you add anything of value to this discussion?



Such as tomato plants, that he could write better software than iOS, doing burnouts on college campuses, cigars, calling various ethnic groups names, etc.?


Other than his coming off like a Braggart, that about sums it up.





Go on.... at least I add some entertainment and information to the threads, you guys are a bunch of jealous vinegar pusses.



While I might talk about our 2 Honda's on TOV, I really don't think that anyone wants to hear about the other things that I have, and it does seem like you are bragging about all of the things that you have, a lot.

Other than joking about you having a drink occasionally, I am not going to get into a name calling contest with you.




(1) I don't brag, I comment. Sex and (enough) money are important, ego and bragging are just not important to my life. If it comes out as "bragging" it is not. It is how I write about things and I see everything interconnected, from tomatoes to coffee machines to audio equipment to cars to whatever. There is a flow to things. You are welcome to add your input, that way we understand you and your values.

(2) The reason I brought up Flash storage is because use of a USB thumb drive for car use came into the discussion and I noted that it's a terrible environment for those devices. Then someone jumped on me so I then proceeded to describe WHY.

(3) BTW, note how Mr. THX keeps calling me a racist. That pisses me off to no end... and he does it because I once wrote that the FOB Chinese are terrible drivers. That is an observation, and not just mine, I got friends and co-workers whose previous vehicle was a bicycle and they agree with me... heck they complain about their wives (one of them just crashed her brand new Audi SUV).

(4) Yeah, I apologize for calling YOU a name.




TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-08-2019 16:06
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CarmB wrote:
One advantage of storing music on an iPod and plugging that into the system is that you can easily access the particular track youre looking for. The system can easily sort tracks off of such a device.

I realize its popular to try and avoid anything Apple but on a number of fronts the iPod really is a great option for storing music to use with the ELS system.

I tried USB flash drives and frankly found them to be a real pain in the derrire. While the iPod option costs more, there comes a point where you need to ask yourself if its worthwhile to spend more for additional convenience. In my case the answer is yes. To my ears, the lossless files deliver a higher quality of experience overall sonically and the iPod integrates well with the ELS system. It works. Im satisfied.

Others can seek out alternatives. Ive settled on what seems to deliver on what I want.

Over the years Ive come to realize that the real waste of money is to mess around with something that doesnt quite hit the spot. I get restless, I keep trying different things, and ultimately wind up spending more than I would have opting for what seemed to be a pricier solution at the outset. Get it right in the first place and you dont waste time and money trying to avoid paying that extra bit for what is a good solution.

Then again, Ive settled on what works for me. Others, I presume, have done the same and not necessarily arrived at the same set-up. All we can do is offer up options.



Over the years I found out that I'm very impatient with the car when I drive. If something it's not intuitive and easy to use, I ignore it altogether. I drive my wife nuts.

I find that Honda's NAVI interface is a complete PITA and it changes from car to car. So if you are changing cars then there is no point in learning how to use it. Honda, instead of settling down on an easy to use, attorney free UI, keeps complicating its life. For a while that was OK as there were no real alternatives, but today your typical smartphone has a MUCH better user interface.

But it has to be paired... and everytime my wife uses my car it kicks off my phone.

The iPod was an excellent solution. We all bought into it. At first it was limited to RedBook but eventually it moved up to Hi-Rez files, at that point it became awesome, even if you had to load it via its own API and could not just share the files from your hard drive directly (it hashed the music files in its own library so it was incompatible with other media players).

You can sort of do the same thing with a smart phone, but its versatility is also its Achiles' heel: Too much complexity while you're driving, even if it's easier to use at home. (*)

So, pretty much, I just do XM radio and keep it a low volume. I know I sound defeated but not really, I just don't have the time or energy to fight it. And very often I'll ask my wife to use her Samsung phone to help navigate. (**)

Trust me, if I could, that Honda NAVI/audio cluster would have flown out the window MANY, MANY times.

(*) I use an Android tablet with a USB OTG/charge hydra cable to drive a DAC into my bedroom's stereo.
(**) Too many lawyers.


CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-08-2019 21:43
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The iPod still is a great solution. Apple still sells it and it comes now with a 128GB hard drive in the top configuration.


Over the years, storage capacity has gone up at a given price point. This will continue, undoubtedly, but even at 128GB, which is a configuration offered already, thats plenty as long as you can be OK with storage approaching 5,000 songs. This is using largish lossless files. If you dont mind MP3/AAC type files, you could store a lot more than 5,000 songs. Integration is fine.

Really there are no major downsides to this arrangement that I can see. Lossless files linked via USB deliver decent sound quality. Search functions fine. It addresses quality concerns, it integrates well. Simply, it works. At $299 US for the high-capacity model, its hardly what I would describe as expensive, considering it checks all the boxes.

Dont know if there are better alternatives for less money. Ive been a long-time Apple customer and just go there virtually out of habit. Still, its working out so far. Im not looking any further on account I seem to be getting what I want.


Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-09-2019 07:38
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TonyEX wrote:

(1) I don't brag, I comment. Sex and (enough) money are important, ego and bragging are just not important to my life. If it comes out as "bragging" it is not. It is how I write about things and I see everything interconnected, from tomatoes to coffee machines to audio equipment to cars to whatever. There is a flow to things. You are welcome to add your input, that way we understand you and your values.

(2) The reason I brought up Flash storage is because use of a USB thumb drive for car use came into the discussion and I noted that it's a terrible environment for those devices. Then someone jumped on me so I then proceeded to describe WHY.

(3) BTW, note how Mr. THX keeps calling me a racist. That pisses me off to no end... and he does it because I once wrote that the FOB Chinese are terrible drivers. That is an observation, and not just mine, I got friends and co-workers whose previous vehicle was a bicycle and they agree with me... heck they complain about their wives (one of them just crashed her brand new Audi SUV).

(4) Yeah, I apologize for calling YOU a name.


I guess I don't care very much though. I've used the same USB memory stick in my car for seven years now without any problems. It's been at least as reliable as CDs and vastly better than cassettes. Leave a cassette in a hot car during the summer and the housing case would warp making it unplayable.

If not for being lazy about it, I'd have several memory sticks with a variety of song lists for the car. One has worked fine though.

NoClarity
Profile for NoClarity
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-09-2019 14:35
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Thanks for the idea of using iPod. On my Clarity, using the USB stick only plays WMA for the lossless quality (not sure if it's called WMA or WVA, it starts with W..).

I experimented burning it from my Windows Laptop with Apple Lossless Quality (AAC???), and it won't play.

So, the choice for using the USB stick is either mp3 or the Wxx format, plus, the USB needs to be 2.0, it won't accept 3.0. So, copying can be a bit slow.

NoClarity
Profile for NoClarity
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-09-2019 14:39
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Okay, I just Google'd it.

The other choice for burning lossless quality is called FLAC. My car won't play that either.

The Apple Lossless Quality is called ALAC.

Now, the one that starts with a "W", most likely it's WAV, and it plays it.
It probably plays WMA files too.

NoClarity
Profile for NoClarity
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-09-2019 14:42
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Also, per https://lifehacker.com/5927052/whats-the-difference-between-all-these-audio-formats-and-which-one-should-i-use, the AAC is a lossy format.

So, I will just burn it to ALAC if I buy a new iPod.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-09-2019 19:09
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Grace141 wrote:

I guess I don't care very much though. I've used the same USB memory stick in my car for seven years now without any problems. It's been at least as reliable as CDs and vastly better than cassettes. Leave a cassette in a hot car during the summer and the housing case would warp making it unplayable.

If not for being lazy about it, I'd have several memory sticks with a variety of song lists for the car. One has worked fine though.



How often do you power it up?

How full is it?

I used to buy those metal shell cassettes with little metal reels inside. I had a bunch of them which I foolishly threw away. Now they are worth a ton of money.

CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 13:53
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I tried USB flash drives but they dont integrate nearly as well with my cars system including taking longer to load. A cheap option, certainly, but far from one that I wound up liking. So I spent a few bucks, went for the iPod, and so far, no regrets. I spent a heck of a lot more, back in the day, for a lot less so it wasnt that painful going that route. I am curious to see how long the iPod lasts, though. Im guessing in around four years but who knows.
IMIS
Profile for IMIS
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 15:15
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I use a USB flash drive as well. It's been plugged in for 3 years in my HR-V and so far no problems.

They are so cheap, and if it ever stops working I'll buy another one for 10 bucks and copy music again and I'm done.

Strangely enough the head unit on my HR-V will only play USB songs in the order they are copied to the drive. Even adding prefixes to the file names does not fix this problem. This drove me nuts as songs on albums were always out of order. If you highlight 500 songs in windows and say copy you have little control as to how and when each file is actually written to the drive.

I wrote a powershell script where I can control the order of when each file is copied to the USB drive and problem solved.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 16:13
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CarmB wrote:
I tried USB flash drives but they dont integrate nearly as well with my cars system including taking longer to load. A cheap option, certainly, but far from one that I wound up liking. So I spent a few bucks, went for the iPod, and so far, no regrets. I spent a heck of a lot more, back in the day, for a lot less so it wasnt that painful going that route. I am curious to see how long the iPod lasts, though. Im guessing in around four years but who knows.



Interesting... I thought Apple had killed off the iPod.

Can it run USB OTG?

My Android Samsung Smartphone/tablets do and I got that strange hydra cable from work.. so I run a the smartphone, the cable, an USB stick, a NuForce uDAC2 and a large power brick. All wrapped with rubber bands and the phone facing outwards.

Trust me, you don't want to walk with me through TSA at the airport when I carry THAT thing. It looks like a homemade bomb with a pair of headphones. :-D

But it sounds great.

THX17201
Profile for THX17201
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-10-2019 21:03
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TonyEX wrote:


Interesting... I thought Apple had killed off the iPod.





Nope... You thought wrong, it's still there!

https://www.apple.com/ipod-touch/

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2019 07:03
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TonyEX wrote:
Grace141 wrote:

I guess I don't care very much though. I've used the same USB memory stick in my car for seven years now without any problems. It's been at least as reliable as CDs and vastly better than cassettes. Leave a cassette in a hot car during the summer and the housing case would warp making it unplayable.

If not for being lazy about it, I'd have several memory sticks with a variety of song lists for the car. One has worked fine though.



How often do you power it up?

How full is it?

I used to buy those metal shell cassettes with little metal reels inside. I had a bunch of them which I foolishly threw away. Now they are worth a ton of money.


I leave it plugged into the radio USB input and I drive the car at least ever day. It may be at 10% of capacity. From what you're saying, I guess that's why it's still working okay.

We have one of the old iPod Minis plugged into the USB in the Fit. That iPod must be twelve years old and still working perfectly.

And I considered cassettes to be disposable so I usually bought the medium grade blanks and replaced them after a year or so. That was after I bought my CD deck in the mid-'80s and switched to disks. Before that, the albums I bought on cassette would last maybe two years.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2019 12:41
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Grace141 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
Grace141 wrote:

I guess I don't care very much though. I've used the same USB memory stick in my car for seven years now without any problems. It's been at least as reliable as CDs and vastly better than cassettes. Leave a cassette in a hot car during the summer and the housing case would warp making it unplayable.

If not for being lazy about it, I'd have several memory sticks with a variety of song lists for the car. One has worked fine though.



How often do you power it up?

How full is it?

I used to buy those metal shell cassettes with little metal reels inside. I had a bunch of them which I foolishly threw away. Now they are worth a ton of money.


I leave it plugged into the radio USB input and I drive the car at least ever day. It may be at 10% of capacity. From what you're saying, I guess that's why it's still working okay.

We have one of the old iPod Minis plugged into the USB in the Fit. That iPod must be twelve years old and still working perfectly.

And I considered cassettes to be disposable so I usually bought the medium grade blanks and replaced them after a year or so. That was after I bought my CD deck in the mid-'80s and switched to disks. Before that, the albums I bought on cassette would last maybe two years.


What brand USB, what model lasted 7 years in a hot car constantly plugged in?

My experience with USB's is pretty hit and miss, I have had a few that failed in a year or less, mostly PNY from pretty limited use. The ones that failed were pretty full so maybe you having them only 10% full helped but USB's in my experience are not a reliable source to keep files/pics/videos you care about.

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2019 12:55
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lexusgs wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
Grace141 wrote:

I guess I don't care very much though. I've used the same USB memory stick in my car for seven years now without any problems. It's been at least as reliable as CDs and vastly better than cassettes. Leave a cassette in a hot car during the summer and the housing case would warp making it unplayable.

If not for being lazy about it, I'd have several memory sticks with a variety of song lists for the car. One has worked fine though.



How often do you power it up?

How full is it?

I used to buy those metal shell cassettes with little metal reels inside. I had a bunch of them which I foolishly threw away. Now they are worth a ton of money.


I leave it plugged into the radio USB input and I drive the car at least ever day. It may be at 10% of capacity. From what you're saying, I guess that's why it's still working okay.

We have one of the old iPod Minis plugged into the USB in the Fit. That iPod must be twelve years old and still working perfectly.

And I considered cassettes to be disposable so I usually bought the medium grade blanks and replaced them after a year or so. That was after I bought my CD deck in the mid-'80s and switched to disks. Before that, the albums I bought on cassette would last maybe two years.


What brand USB, what model lasted 7 years in a hot car constantly plugged in?

My experience with USB's is pretty hit and miss, I have had a few that failed in a year or less, mostly PNY from pretty limited use. The ones that failed were pretty full so maybe you having them only 10% full helped but USB's in my experience are not a reliable source to keep files/pics/videos you care about.


I assume it's Lexar since it's what I try to buy. I don't trust the freebies I've picked up in greeting bags at business seminars and such over the years. They're okay for quickly transferring files.

I guess I should replace the cards I've had for my cameras for several years.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-11-2019 13:06
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Grace141 wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
Grace141 wrote:

I guess I don't care very much though. I've used the same USB memory stick in my car for seven years now without any problems. It's been at least as reliable as CDs and vastly better than cassettes. Leave a cassette in a hot car during the summer and the housing case would warp making it unplayable.

If not for being lazy about it, I'd have several memory sticks with a variety of song lists for the car. One has worked fine though.



How often do you power it up?

How full is it?

I used to buy those metal shell cassettes with little metal reels inside. I had a bunch of them which I foolishly threw away. Now they are worth a ton of money.


I leave it plugged into the radio USB input and I drive the car at least ever day. It may be at 10% of capacity. From what you're saying, I guess that's why it's still working okay.

We have one of the old iPod Minis plugged into the USB in the Fit. That iPod must be twelve years old and still working perfectly.

And I considered cassettes to be disposable so I usually bought the medium grade blanks and replaced them after a year or so. That was after I bought my CD deck in the mid-'80s and switched to disks. Before that, the albums I bought on cassette would last maybe two years.


What brand USB, what model lasted 7 years in a hot car constantly plugged in?

My experience with USB's is pretty hit and miss, I have had a few that failed in a year or less, mostly PNY from pretty limited use. The ones that failed were pretty full so maybe you having them only 10% full helped but USB's in my experience are not a reliable source to keep files/pics/videos you care about.


I assume it's Lexar since it's what I try to buy. I don't trust the freebies I've picked up in greeting bags at business seminars and such over the years. They're okay for quickly transferring files.

I guess I should replace the cards I've had for my cameras for several years.


I have a few Lexar and Sony USB's, never had any issues, really just PNY where they failed quickly.

I have never heard of the SD cards going in camera's or phones. I have had the same SD card in one camera for over 10 years and it still works fine, another in a different camera for about 7 years and they are really full but they are not used anywhere near as much or as long as USB's and are never really exposed to high temps. Never had a issue with the SD card in my cell phones either.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Audiophiles What Am I Missing    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2019 19:48
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lexusgs wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
Grace141 wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
Grace141 wrote:

I guess I don't care very much though. I've used the same USB memory stick in my car for seven years now without any problems. It's been at least as reliable as CDs and vastly better than cassettes. Leave a cassette in a hot car during the summer and the housing case would warp making it unplayable.

If not for being lazy about it, I'd have several memory sticks with a variety of song lists for the car. One has worked fine though.



How often do you power it up?

How full is it?

I used to buy those metal shell cassettes with little metal reels inside. I had a bunch of them which I foolishly threw away. Now they are worth a ton of money.


I leave it plugged into the radio USB input and I drive the car at least ever day. It may be at 10% of capacity. From what you're saying, I guess that's why it's still working okay.

We have one of the old iPod Minis plugged into the USB in the Fit. That iPod must be twelve years old and still working perfectly.

And I considered cassettes to be disposable so I usually bought the medium grade blanks and replaced them after a year or so. That was after I bought my CD deck in the mid-'80s and switched to disks. Before that, the albums I bought on cassette would last maybe two years.


What brand USB, what model lasted 7 years in a hot car constantly plugged in?

My experience with USB's is pretty hit and miss, I have had a few that failed in a year or less, mostly PNY from pretty limited use. The ones that failed were pretty full so maybe you having them only 10% full helped but USB's in my experience are not a reliable source to keep files/pics/videos you care about.


I assume it's Lexar since it's what I try to buy. I don't trust the freebies I've picked up in greeting bags at business seminars and such over the years. They're okay for quickly transferring files.

I guess I should replace the cards I've had for my cameras for several years.


I have a few Lexar and Sony USB's, never had any issues, really just PNY where they failed quickly.

I have never heard of the SD cards going in camera's or phones. I have had the same SD card in one camera for over 10 years and it still works fine, another in a different camera for about 7 years and they are really full but they are not used anywhere near as much or as long as USB's and are never really exposed to high temps. Never had a issue with the SD card in my cell phones either.



Three things:

(1) Entropy: Heat introduced energy into the NAND cells and changes their charge -ie: their value.

(2) Aging: NAND cells have a limited write capacity. The fuller the drive is, the greated the "write amplification" done by the "garbage collection". So, this wears it out faster.

(3) Power: If you power the NAND often enough, then the firmware will walk through the memory and ensure that decaying cells are read out and written elsewhere - in essence restoring the data, "refreshing" cells and aging out worn out cells.

OK, now, it's the Spanish Inquisition... four.. five....

(4) Cell complexity: The single level, large NAND cells (SLC) tend to be much more robust than the latest multi level NAND cells (MLC, TLC, QLC).

(5) NAND in a phone... is always on. And we change phones pretty often. It's unlikely I'll ever wear out the 64GB memory in my Samsung phone because even when sitting in my hot car, it's always powered on. So it has firmware running in the background that ensures the data is readable and as soon it gets "degraded" it gets read into DDR and written out into another sector.


 
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