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  TOV News > 2019 Honda Passport Makes World Debut: Adventure-Ready All-New 5-passenger SUV at 2018 LA Auto Show > > Re: J-series forever?

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JimmyEats
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J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-29-2018 08:08
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So how many more years will Honda be using the J-series engines? Seems at least three more years.

I'd guess it's sensible for cost reasons, but it's use for over 20 years so far seems unexpected.

longhorn
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Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-29-2018 10:50
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A good design is a good design whether designed today or 20 years ago.

I thought the demise of the J was going to be due to emissions, but I guess not.

lexusgs
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Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-29-2018 12:42
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J series has plenty of life left in it for Honda, it is a great engine, it is better then a 4 cyl turbo. It made 310hp in 2013 for the RLX, can likely make at least 30hp more with a disp. increase, raising redline, etc which is perfectly fine for Honda applications well into the future and it should have some more life left in Acura's over going to turbo 4 which is a step down.

It is funny seeing them taught how the Passport has a 6 cylinder while most competitors in its class just have 4 cylinders when Honda killed the 6 cylinder in the Accord and RDX so far for less refined, slower, 4cylinders that make less hp.

Bro_Phoenix
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Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-29-2018 13:40
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I agree for the most part, except that I donít think the turbo cars are slower. The 2.0T Accord is quicker from 0-60 than the prior 3.5L J-Series
Fitdad
Profile for Fitdad
Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-29-2018 13:50
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Cars and trucks have different emissions/efficiency targets

The big trucks have always been ahead of the curve on CAFE from the data Iíve seen. The cars have typically been ahead but not quite as far...and their targets are much more aggressive. Not surprising that the Passport and Pilot have the same wheelbase...

And Acura has the turbo 6 coming so putting the 2.0t into the RDX was a no brainer. That was done for marketing and lineup construction reasons and not emissions.

Iím really interested in what engine the PHEV has - clearly some sort of large truck PHEV system is coming/being tested.

VRFlyer
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Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-29-2018 16:20
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And this is why I'm keeping my '09 MDX rated @ 300HP.
Fishbulb
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Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-29-2018 17:46
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Bro_Phoenix wrote:
I agree for the most part, except that I donít think the turbo cars are slower. The 2.0T Accord is quicker from 0-60 than the prior 3.5L J-Series


Because of the transmission, not the engine.

RMTRADER
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Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2018 10:12
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Fishbulb wrote:
Bro_Phoenix wrote:
I agree for the most part, except that I donít think the turbo cars are slower. The 2.0T Accord is quicker from 0-60 than the prior 3.5L J-Series


Because of the transmission, not the engine.



Because of where the torque lies. If you think the transmission adds several mph in trap speed you are kidding yourself.

osu1978
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Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2018 14:32
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I think they stick with the J35 for a few years more on the Honda light truck platform. Why not, every vehicle itís in is near or at the top of its class in performance metrics and fuel efficiency. No need to make a change.

This engine is underrated. Earthdeams and DI brought it to the front of the pack.


owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2018 15:03
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lexusgs wrote:
J series has plenty of life left in it for Honda, it is a great engine, it is better then a 4 cyl turbo. It made 310hp in 2013 for the RLX, can likely make at least 30hp more with a disp. increase, raising redline, etc which is perfectly fine for Honda applications well into the future and it should have some more life left in Acura's over going to turbo 4 which is a step down.

It is funny seeing them taught how the Passport has a 6 cylinder while most competitors in its class just have 4 cylinders when Honda killed the 6 cylinder in the Accord and RDX so far for less refined, slower, 4cylinders that make less hp.



Nope.

There is a reason you haven't seen a J series rated much above 300HP, a redline increase, or large deployment of bigger displacement.

1) The exhaust port design limits flow, and they can't just "increase redline" because of the small journals and bearings, which relate directly to the design requirement for a compact size. This is why you haven't seen factory redlines above about 6800RPM on this engine family or rev cuts much above 7,000.

2)They also can't just punch it out, as they had to resort to fairly exotic changes for a mass production, high volume engine in order to get the J37 up to 3.7L. Not only did it require significant block changes, but it required expensive and exotic cylinder linings, which likely also increased oil consumption. And to top it off, there isn't much evidence that the J37 was producing vastly more power than the more advanced versions of the J35.

You also run into more NVH issues with a displacement increase.

The J series has been a phenomenal engine for Honda, but after 20 years, it is one of their longer running engine families and it is likely at the end of its development curve, which is why they are replacing it.

owequitit
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Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2018 15:09
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RMTRADER wrote:
Fishbulb wrote:
Bro_Phoenix wrote:
I agree for the most part, except that I donít think the turbo cars are slower. The 2.0T Accord is quicker from 0-60 than the prior 3.5L J-Series


Because of the transmission, not the engine.



Because of where the torque lies. If you think the transmission adds several mph in trap speed you are kidding yourself.



Incorrect. Despite being lighter than the V6 coupe it replaces, the Sport 2.0T 6MT is SUBSTANTIALLY slower than the 6MT V6 car.

It is less about total torque and more about being able to keep the car in the meaty part of the torque curve longer. Since the 10AT has 66% more gearing, it is able to keep the engine in the sweet spot of the power band much better, as well as allowing the use of ultra low gearing in the first few gears to get the turbo on boost a lot faster and then keeping it there.

Having driven both the 2.0T 10AT and owning a prior generation EX-L V6 6AT sedan, I can vouch for the fact that the 10AT is doing a lot more work to keep the engine boosting than the 6AT was. It is a great transmission, and it works pretty well IMO, but it is largely an exercise in gearing. The first few gears are so low and so good at getting the turbo spinning that you can't really go much over half throttle on launch without lighting up the tires.

I also haven't seen any instrumented tests that show data that proves the 2.0T is substantially faster than the old V6 AT car, despite the fact the old car was carrying a fair bit of extra weight.

Don't get me wrong, I think the 2.0T is a fantastic engine and really negates most of the need for a V6, but I also definitely think that Honda is leveraging the transmission a lot more to achieve the desired acceleration, which is why you see such a huge difference between not only the 10AT vs 6MT car, but also between the V6 6MT and the 2.0T 6MT when compared together.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2018 16:41
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Bro_Phoenix wrote:
I agree for the most part, except that I donít think the turbo cars are slower. The 2.0T Accord is quicker from 0-60 than the prior 3.5L J-Series


The 4 cylinder turbo manual is a good deal slower then the older 6 cylinder manual. Older 6 cylinder manual could do 0-60 in 5.4-5.6 sec where the 4cylinder turbo manual normally does it in 6.1 to 6.2 seconds, the V6 and turbo 4 autos are closer/about the same but there have been more tests of the 6 cylinder auto doing 0-60 in 5.5 sec where only one that I have seen with the 4 cylinder turbo doing it in 5.5 sec, motor week had the 4cyl turbo auto doing it in 6.2sec, Motor Trend at 5.8 where they had the 6 cylinder at 5.7 sec.

Lets also consider the 6 cylinder was doing those times with a older 6 speed auto while the 4cyl turbo was doing them with a newer 10 speed auto, plus if they kept the 6 cylinder for the new Accord they definitely would have got more power from it making it even quicker. The Accords I have test driven, the 6 cylinder also felt quicker, smoother and more refined too then the 2.0T.

The 2019 RDX with a similar setup is also slower then the previous 6 cylinder RDX. Previous 6 cylinder RDX was pretty quick, did 0-60 in 6.2 to 6.3 seconds routinely, new one with the turbo 4 only has done it in 6.6 and 7.1, there is no progress or advantage in going with a 4cyl turbo aside from maybe a slight gain in fuel economy. Also again if they stayed with a 6 cylinder they would have given it more power and more gears so it would be even quicker.

wanga
Profile for wanga
Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2018 17:58
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lexusgs wrote:
J series has plenty of life left in it for Honda, it is a great engine, it is better then a 4 cyl turbo. It made 310hp in 2013 for the RLX, can likely make at least 30hp more with a disp. increase, raising redline, etc which is perfectly fine for Honda applications well into the future and it should have some more life left in Acura's over going to turbo 4 which is a step down.

It is funny seeing them taught how the Passport has a 6 cylinder while most competitors in its class just have 4 cylinders when Honda killed the 6 cylinder in the Accord and RDX so far for less refined, slower, 4cylinders that make less hp.

the new t 2.0 4cyl is way faster than accord ,tlx ,rlx . and it's faster than Toyota 3.5 6 cyl.
wanga
Profile for wanga
Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2018 17:58
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lexusgs wrote:
J series has plenty of life left in it for Honda, it is a great engine, it is better then a 4 cyl turbo. It made 310hp in 2013 for the RLX, can likely make at least 30hp more with a disp. increase, raising redline, etc which is perfectly fine for Honda applications well into the future and it should have some more life left in Acura's over going to turbo 4 which is a step down.

It is funny seeing them taught how the Passport has a 6 cylinder while most competitors in its class just have 4 cylinders when Honda killed the 6 cylinder in the Accord and RDX so far for less refined, slower, 4cylinders that make less hp.

the new t 2.0 4cyl is way faster than accord ,tlx ,rlx . and it's faster than Toyota 3.5 6 cyl.
wanga
Profile for wanga
Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2018 18:26
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Fishbulb wrote:
Bro_Phoenix wrote:
I agree for the most part, except that I donít think the turbo cars are slower. The 2.0T Accord is quicker from 0-60 than the prior 3.5L J-Series


Because of the transmission, not the engine.


The smaller engine has more torque than the 3.5 the 2.0 has 280 lb-ft vs 3.5 262 lb-ft

Chris_6MT
Profile for Chris_6MT
Re: J-series forever? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-07-2018 12:42
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Correct. Also, the journal bearings are extremely small - this limits engine speed and load before running into bearing issues.

New gen V6 is coming......


 
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