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TOV Forums > Type R > > Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?

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TonyEX
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'19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-24-2018 13:30
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New variants for the '19 CTR?

https://tiremeetsroad.com/2018/09/21/2019-honda-civic-type-r-starts-production-january-next-year-in-dealerships-by-march/

a) Small wing grand tourer (GT) version
b) Big wing, more power, lighter weight, sport version

Keep up the production volume, ought to be good for the MSRP.

Personally, I like the idea of the GT version. In the US, the hard core versions just don't sell very well, vide the '98 vs '00 ITRs.

But, as usual, I don't get what a want. I want MORE power with the Biggest Wing and the comfy seats, stereo and sound padding.

I want a Civic GTR.

Or, or -wishful thinking- a 320 bhp, SH-AWD, 8DCT, ELS, Navi, leather, Integra GSR4 Tech Sport Wagon.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-24-2018 13:39
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Wishful thinking, grasshopper.
superchg2
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Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-24-2018 13:56
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Wishful thinking, grasshopper.



JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-24-2018 15:16
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I haven't heard anything specific RECENTLY but the original plan called for 2 versions of the Type R, even in the 2017 model year. There was a designated VIN marker and everything (if you look back you'll see it in the rumors/news section)

For whatever reason, they pulled the plug on that plan and all we ended up getting was the "full spec" Touring Version. But it was explained to me that there were definitely going to be 2 trims. Later I was told that they scrapped that plan for '17MY and decided to implement it in '18MY. As we saw, that also did not come to pass.

Maybe (and this is 100% spitballing on my behalf) they decided they needed further differentiation between the trims and that's why it's been pushed to '19MY.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-24-2018 15:44
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JeffX wrote:
I haven't heard anything specific RECENTLY but the original plan called for 2 versions of the Type R, even in the 2017 model year. There was a designated VIN marker and everything (if you look back you'll see it in the rumors/news section)

For whatever reason, they pulled the plug on that plan and all we ended up getting was the "full spec" Touring Version. But it was explained to me that there were definitely going to be 2 trims. Later I was told that they scrapped that plan for '17MY and decided to implement it in '18MY. As we saw, that also did not come to pass.

Maybe (and this is 100% spitballing on my behalf) they decided they needed further differentiation between the trims and that's why it's been pushed to '19MY.




The problem will ALWAYS be than the decontented, uncompromised Type R just won't sell in significant numbers. People may claim that they want the hard core version, but when it comes to driving it on a daily basis, what they get at signing time usually has AC, sound deadening, etc.

AHM might go back to selling Bodies On White (as they did once with the Integra) for the racers but for by and large population, they need to produce something that is livable for anyone over 22 years old.

Now, the wing. Honesly, who the hell wants a DEMURE wing on a Type R? Really? Just bring us MORE power, keep the wing/navi/AC and make them so they will sell well ( make more to STFU those greedy dealers).

Perhaps, the DEMURE wing belongs in an SiR that brings in GT levels of luxo with a lowered powered 2.0T and LSD and NAVI and power windows, etc... IMHO, the current trim placement for the Si is nuts. It should be called a Civic Sport or something like that in the Accord line. But AHM has shot in the foot with this model year so they can't suddently push the "Si" above the Touring.

Oh well, I'm still waiting for my Integra GSR-4 Wagon Tech.


JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-24-2018 15:49
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I checked with somebody and they indicated that they have heard that the US will get no CTR variants until MY20.
Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-24-2018 21:14
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For me the current Type R hits the right spot in terms of feature content . I'm in Canada and I do get a few goodies like wireless phone charging, heated mirrors, and lane watch. These go well along with Android Auto, 540W stereo, and LED headlights. I know some versions have ACC, LKAS, and all the nannies. However I feel that those aren't really needed for a Type R.
silverf16
Profile for silverf16
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-24-2018 22:51
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The only reason it would get more power is it will get AWD.

rogazilla
Profile for rogazilla
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-25-2018 12:56
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TonyEX wrote:
...

Oh well, I'm still waiting for my Integra GSR-4 Wagon Tech.



That's exactly the car I have been wanting. say 350 hp SHAWD 10sp hatch back or wagon and carry over the driving dynamic of the CTR. I be happy with 350hp and 3500 lb. Would be great at 400hp and a self deploy rear wing like the 911/panamera ;)

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-25-2018 16:25
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JeffX wrote:
I checked with somebody and they indicated that they have heard that the US will get no CTR variants until MY20.


That's too bad. Unless they are planning on using the CTR engine in something a little more luxurious and a little less in your face.

I don't often agree with Tony's fantasy cars, but an AWD, DCT, 3500 lbs Acura with a mildly boosted K20C (say 325 hp) would be quite tasty. Figure Infiniti is getting close to $60k optioned up for a 400 hp AWD RedSport, I could see Acura commanding $40-$45k for something like that and getting it.

Not that I think it will happen though. Been disappointed too many times.

SC

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-25-2018 16:46
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notyper wrote:
JeffX wrote:
I checked with somebody and they indicated that they have heard that the US will get no CTR variants until MY20.


That's too bad. Unless they are planning on using the CTR engine in something a little more luxurious and a little less in your face.

I don't often agree with Tony's fantasy cars, but an AWD, DCT, 3500 lbs Acura with a mildly boosted K20C (say 325 hp) would be quite tasty. Figure Infiniti is getting close to $60k optioned up for a 400 hp AWD RedSport, I could see Acura commanding $40-$45k for something like that and getting it.

Not that I think it will happen though. Been disappointed too many times.

SC



I'll try to get a better feel of the situation next time I have the opportunity, but I do think there has been some consideration towards something in that vein. I don't know if we'd see anything like that before the '21 MY though.

Of course, the longer the timeline stretches, it seems that the likelihood diminishes, as I imagine at some point the push towards electrification will reach a critical mass. The big problem is the 2.0T isn't the most fuel efficient option, and then mechanical SH-AWD has a worse impact. Maybe if it's in '21 or later, we'll be seeing a 2.0T AWD car with "Sport Hybrid AWD" 3-motor setup.

silverf16
Profile for silverf16
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-26-2018 01:03
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For what owners are paying on the CTR, the interior dash looks nothing like a $35K machine. I think Honda can do this justice by bring in next generation Civic instrument panel (Insight/18' Accord) in the 2019 CTR.

Porsche do this same marketing ploy but putting in next generation steering wheels on the top model (981 GT4) before 982 Caymans pick up the new steering wheel.

Honda can do the same. Now that the infotainement is updated for 2019 on all Civics, CTRs should get exclusive next generation instrument panel and revised steering wheel that doesn't have the same cheap buttons which comes on standard $18K Civics.

Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-26-2018 01:41
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silverf16 wrote:
For what owners are paying on the CTR, the interior dash looks nothing like a $35K machine. I think Honda can do this justice by bring in next generation Civic instrument panel (Insight/18' Accord) in the 2019 CTR.

Porsche do this same marketing ploy but putting in next generation steering wheels on the top model (981 GT4) before 982 Caymans pick up the new steering wheel.

Honda can do the same. Now that the infotainement is updated for 2019 on all Civics, CTRs should get exclusive next generation instrument panel and revised steering wheel that doesn't have the same cheap buttons which comes on standard $18K Civics.


It would be nice if the CTR gets more fancy instrument panel like on the Insight or Accord. It shouldn't cost much more for that upgrade.

Granted, the competitors aren't exactly doing that though, apart from may be the Golf R. But then that's a $40k car. The $42k Focus RS's interior is even worse IMO.

KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-26-2018 07:38
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JeffX wrote:
notyper wrote:
JeffX wrote:
I checked with somebody and they indicated that they have heard that the US will get no CTR variants until MY20.


That's too bad. Unless they are planning on using the CTR engine in something a little more luxurious and a little less in your face.

I don't often agree with Tony's fantasy cars, but an AWD, DCT, 3500 lbs Acura with a mildly boosted K20C (say 325 hp) would be quite tasty. Figure Infiniti is getting close to $60k optioned up for a 400 hp AWD RedSport, I could see Acura commanding $40-$45k for something like that and getting it.

Not that I think it will happen though. Been disappointed too many times.

SC



I'll try to get a better feel of the situation next time I have the opportunity, but I do think there has been some consideration towards something in that vein. I don't know if we'd see anything like that before the '21 MY though.

Of course, the longer the timeline stretches, it seems that the likelihood diminishes, as I imagine at some point the push towards electrification will reach a critical mass. The big problem is the 2.0T isn't the most fuel efficient option, and then mechanical SH-AWD has a worse impact. Maybe if it's in '21 or later, we'll be seeing a 2.0T AWD car with "Sport Hybrid AWD" 3-motor setup.
[CTR



Oh man, things are actually looking kinda bleek for the future if these are the potential prospects. Realistically, could the CTR and the Si be the last manual performance oriented vehicles Honda makes? I'll lump the accord 6MT in there as well since it's does well despite not having dedicated performance hardware. Could the next gen CTR end up being DCT only with maybe awd and have a hybrid powertrain? I look forward to seeing what Honda does next either way. But I hope they keep up these more engaging, connected three pedal performance variants for a while longer. Acura can do whatever, I think I've given up hope there.

revvin
Profile for revvin
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-26-2018 09:33
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notyper wrote:
JeffX wrote:
I checked with somebody and they indicated that they have heard that the US will get no CTR variants until MY20.


That's too bad. Unless they are planning on using the CTR engine in something a little more luxurious and a little less in your face.

I don't often agree with Tony's fantasy cars, but an AWD, DCT, 3500 lbs Acura with a mildly boosted K20C (say 325 hp) would be quite tasty. Figure Infiniti is getting close to $60k optioned up for a 400 hp AWD RedSport, I could see Acura commanding $40-$45k for something like that and getting it.

Not that I think it will happen though. Been disappointed too many times.

SC



Seconded, but i want a stick and a coupe profile

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-27-2018 09:51
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JeffX wrote:
I haven't heard anything specific RECENTLY but the original plan called for 2 versions of the Type R, even in the 2017 model year. There was a designated VIN marker and everything (if you look back you'll see it in the rumors/news section)

For whatever reason, they pulled the plug on that plan and all we ended up getting was the "full spec" Touring Version. But it was explained to me that there were definitely going to be 2 trims. Later I was told that they scrapped that plan for '17MY and decided to implement it in '18MY. As we saw, that also did not come to pass.

Maybe (and this is 100% spitballing on my behalf) they decided they needed further differentiation between the trims and that's why it's been pushed to '19MY.



actually my recollection was off. I went back and looked and it was the '18 MY that was supposed to get 2 trims. Now we have leaked photos of a 2019 Civic Type R accessories brochure and it's showing a CTR with projector headlamps. Could this finally be the 'base' trim?

https://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=1367198

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-27-2018 15:04
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KaySee wrote:
JeffX wrote:
notyper wrote:
JeffX wrote:
I checked with somebody and they indicated that they have heard that the US will get no CTR variants until MY20.


That's too bad. Unless they are planning on using the CTR engine in something a little more luxurious and a little less in your face.

I don't often agree with Tony's fantasy cars, but an AWD, DCT, 3500 lbs Acura with a mildly boosted K20C (say 325 hp) would be quite tasty. Figure Infiniti is getting close to $60k optioned up for a 400 hp AWD RedSport, I could see Acura commanding $40-$45k for something like that and getting it.

Not that I think it will happen though. Been disappointed too many times.

SC



I'll try to get a better feel of the situation next time I have the opportunity, but I do think there has been some consideration towards something in that vein. I don't know if we'd see anything like that before the '21 MY though.

Of course, the longer the timeline stretches, it seems that the likelihood diminishes, as I imagine at some point the push towards electrification will reach a critical mass. The big problem is the 2.0T isn't the most fuel efficient option, and then mechanical SH-AWD has a worse impact. Maybe if it's in '21 or later, we'll be seeing a 2.0T AWD car with "Sport Hybrid AWD" 3-motor setup.
[CTR



Oh man, things are actually looking kinda bleek for the future if these are the potential prospects. Realistically, could the CTR and the Si be the last manual performance oriented vehicles Honda makes? I'll lump the accord 6MT in there as well since it's does well despite not having dedicated performance hardware. Could the next gen CTR end up being DCT only with maybe awd and have a hybrid powertrain? I look forward to seeing what Honda does next either way. But I hope they keep up these more engaging, connected three pedal performance variants for a while longer. Acura can do whatever, I think I've given up hope there.




Well, it's nice to see that Shawn is right every so often.... ;-)

SH-AWD does have a big problem, it needs power to operate. (*)_

EVs, well, now, they have, IMHO, superior driving characteristics in the low and mid speed ranges. Off the line they are simple awesome: fast, quick throttle response... but they are quiet. Very quiet. Which can be good or bad depending on your point of view.

BEVs are the simplest but they have insurmountable problems with recharging (very long times) unless we get new physics. "Solid state" batteries seem to be a significant leap forward but they are still not as fast to refuel as a gasoline/diesel/hydrogen/NG car. And recycling those big batteries is not going to be easy nor cheap.

That leaves FCEVs and serial hybrids. Both of them are extremely similar, really. In fact, the powertrain in the Clarity FCEV actually looks like a Honda 4 cylinder ICE motor.

In either case, you could rather easily replace the entire transmission and shafts with a two motor/TMU or a four motor assembly. The motors should have built in regeneration. Indeed, if all in one light weight wheels with a built in motor could be made cheaply and light enough, this would be the ideal powertrain. (**)

It will be boring though. Maybe we'll need to have a B18C5 engine sound mode in the stereo.


(*) Note: I think I have a rather simple solution, I've been thinking about it. I'll post on the General Forum anon.. I'm still thinking about it in my head. My one hour cigar smoking hour in the evening is great for such thinking.

(**) I actually posted such thoughts about 10/12 years ago in ToV. No less than Shawn, at the time, noted that the sprung weight would be the biggest issue. Still will be.



superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-27-2018 17:42
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TonyEX wrote:

It will be boring though. Maybe we'll need to have a B18C5 engine sound mode in the stereo.


Or maybe a blind guitar player mounted on the front!


KaySee
Profile for KaySee
Re: '19 Variations on the CTR?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-27-2018 21:50
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TonyEX wrote:
KaySee wrote:
JeffX wrote:
notyper wrote:
JeffX wrote:
I checked with somebody and they indicated that they have heard that the US will get no CTR variants until MY20.


That's too bad. Unless they are planning on using the CTR engine in something a little more luxurious and a little less in your face.

I don't often agree with Tony's fantasy cars, but an AWD, DCT, 3500 lbs Acura with a mildly boosted K20C (say 325 hp) would be quite tasty. Figure Infiniti is getting close to $60k optioned up for a 400 hp AWD RedSport, I could see Acura commanding $40-$45k for something like that and getting it.

Not that I think it will happen though. Been disappointed too many times.

SC



I'll try to get a better feel of the situation next time I have the opportunity, but I do think there has been some consideration towards something in that vein. I don't know if we'd see anything like that before the '21 MY though.

Of course, the longer the timeline stretches, it seems that the likelihood diminishes, as I imagine at some point the push towards electrification will reach a critical mass. The big problem is the 2.0T isn't the most fuel efficient option, and then mechanical SH-AWD has a worse impact. Maybe if it's in '21 or later, we'll be seeing a 2.0T AWD car with "Sport Hybrid AWD" 3-motor setup.
[CTR



Oh man, things are actually looking kinda bleek for the future if these are the potential prospects. Realistically, could the CTR and the Si be the last manual performance oriented vehicles Honda makes? I'll lump the accord 6MT in there as well since it's does well despite not having dedicated performance hardware. Could the next gen CTR end up being DCT only with maybe awd and have a hybrid powertrain? I look forward to seeing what Honda does next either way. But I hope they keep up these more engaging, connected three pedal performance variants for a while longer. Acura can do whatever, I think I've given up hope there.




Well, it's nice to see that Shawn is right every so often.... ;-)

SH-AWD does have a big problem, it needs power to operate. (*)_

EVs, well, now, they have, IMHO, superior driving characteristics in the low and mid speed ranges. Off the line they are simple awesome: fast, quick throttle response... but they are quiet. Very quiet. Which can be good or bad depending on your point of view.

BEVs are the simplest but they have insurmountable problems with recharging (very long times) unless we get new physics. "Solid state" batteries seem to be a significant leap forward but they are still not as fast to refuel as a gasoline/diesel/hydrogen/NG car. And recycling those big batteries is not going to be easy nor cheap.

That leaves FCEVs and serial hybrids. Both of them are extremely similar, really. In fact, the powertrain in the Clarity FCEV actually looks like a Honda 4 cylinder ICE motor.

In either case, you could rather easily replace the entire transmission and shafts with a two motor/TMU or a four motor assembly. The motors should have built in regeneration. Indeed, if all in one light weight wheels with a built in motor could be made cheaply and light enough, this would be the ideal powertrain. (**)

It will be boring though. Maybe we'll need to have a B18C5 engine sound mode in the stereo.


(*) Note: I think I have a rather simple solution, I've been thinking about it. I'll post on the General Forum anon.. I'm still thinking about it in my head. My one hour cigar smoking hour in the evening is great for such thinking.

(**) I actually posted such thoughts about 10/12 years ago in ToV. No less than Shawn, at the time, noted that the sprung weight would be the biggest issue. Still will be.





I hope you get enjoyment out of these things. That reads like a lullaby to me tho.


 
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