[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
It's Official: Honda to supply Red Bull Racing in Formula One from 2019
More.......................
Will the next-gen TLX bring back double wishbones? Or a Plugin Hybrid model?
More.......................
Acura tackles Pikes Peak with 2019 RDX, NSX, and TLX entries
More.......................
Honda Partners on General Motorsí Next Gen Battery Development
More.......................
Trucks Set Records as Core Products Deliver American Honda May Sales Gains
More.......................
First in a Generation: All-New 2019 Acura RDX Arrives in Showrooms June 1
More.......................
This 2019 Acura RDX A-Spec is wearing an exclusive new shade of blue
More.......................
2019 Pilot gets upgraded with standard LED headlights and "Telematics"
More.......................
Professional Motorsports --> Re: Autobild report: Red Bull switching to Honda
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Some juicy Acura info!!!
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Acura TLX-Based Test Mule Spy Photos
Join Discussion......
HondaJet --> Re: HondaJet Elite just announced
Join Discussion......
Type R --> Re: Driver Seat Height Lever Clicks
Join Discussion......
RDX --> Re: Switch Wheels 2019 RDX Tech to Advance ????
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> 3 Honda Videos
Join Discussion......
Ridgeline - General Talk --> Re: Ordered Son of Black Mamba
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: I HATE Cristiano Ronaldo
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Dear NoTypeR, Dear Jeff
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: "American" cars made in Canada
Join Discussion......
Type R --> Re: Honda just set a new front-wheel drive production car lap record at Spa
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Here they come...
Join Discussion......
Ridgeline - Modifications --> Leer 100XL
Join Discussion......
Type R --> Re: DC-R
Join Discussion......
2019 Honda Insight PR Photo Gallery
Read Article....................
First Drive: 2019 Acura RDX
Read Article....................
2019 Acura RDX Features & Specifications
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery - 2019 Acura RDX Advance
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery - 2019 Acura RDX A-Spec
Read Article....................
Photo Gallery - Some other cars from 2019 NYIAS
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3

Go to:

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - [1]
Author
  Post New Thread
nightflow
Profile for nightflow
Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-04-2018 19:57
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I was reading the March Car and Driver review of the 2018 BMW X3 xDrive30i and M40i here:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-bmw-x3-in-depth-model-review-2018-bmw-x3-performance-and-driving-impressions-review-car-and-driver-page-4

where they compared performance and handling to the competition. What surprised me was the weight distribution of the Porsche Macan S:

Test Results: Curb Weight and Weight Distribution, BMW X3 xDrive30i


Test Results: Curb Weight and Weight Distribution, BMW X3 M40i


To see that it was this front heavy and yet the dynamic SUV standard everyone compares against blew my mind.

The 1G RDX was at 57/43 so it was almost identical weight distribution. I would hope the new RDX with the new chassis, possible aluminum hood, pano roof and beefier SH-AWD that it would be slightly better with more weight towards the rear, at least by a fraction of a point.

I never thought Porsche (or anyone) can tune a front heavy vehicle to be so dynamic and fun. Can someone explain this physics defying feat?
Gives some hope to the new RDX on handling and fun for a two ton utility vehicle.

From the review, the GLC43 AMG is also an impressive cornering beast.

Test Results: Maximum Cornering Capability, BMW X3 xDrive30i



Test Results: Maximum Cornering Capability, BMW X3 M40i

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-05-2018 08:17
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I don't see anything particularly surprising; it's a Q5 plank with a big/heavy V6 in place of the four.

You know the story, nose-heavy plank, probably brake- or torque-vectoring being a band-aid for FWD etc, etc, etc, yada yada yada....

I've driven none of them and so cannot comment on roll couples, polar moment of inertia, etc.

Let alone wheel/tyre specifications.

One might expect a skinnier-tyred vehicle with 50/50 mass distribution to generate less lateral grip, but to have a nicer, more natural breakaway-point feel. But with a FRED-laden top-heavy SUV, it's not necessarily gonna be the same as something like an S2000.

No Shaguar P-Face, which has BV and is closer to 50/50, an alloy shell and a suspension set up by a well-respected engineer?

So many variables...

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-05-2018 10:56
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
There's nothing magical about it- the Macan sits on much wider tires. Skidpad tests give a good idea of ultimate grip levels but it doesn't say anything about how it handles.

Anyways, if you want to reach ideal 50/50 weight distribution, you can toss some sandbags in the trunk. Context is important, because 50/50 means a lot more in a lightweight sportscar than a 4200+ lb vehicle.

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-05-2018 12:19
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Nick GravesX wrote:
I don't see anything particularly surprising; it's a Q5 plank with a big/heavy V6 in place of the four.

You know the story, nose-heavy plank, probably brake- or torque-vectoring being a band-aid for FWD etc, etc, etc, yada yada yada....

I've driven none of them and so cannot comment on roll couples, polar moment of inertia, etc.

Let alone wheel/tyre specifications.

One might expect a skinnier-tyred vehicle with 50/50 mass distribution to generate less lateral grip, but to have a nicer, more natural breakaway-point feel. But with a FRED-laden top-heavy SUV, it's not necessarily gonna be the same as something like an S2000.

No Shaguar P-Face, which has BV and is closer to 50/50, an alloy shell and a suspension set up by a well-respected engineer?

So many variables...



I drove a Macan Turbo a couple years ago and while I thought it was very nice, I was underwhelmed by the drive when you take price into consideration. The one I drove stickered at a shade over 100k. And I guess I expected it to be faster. The chassis was very good for a crossover, but I thought it was a little lacking in terms of yaw stability. Through a constant radius turn, as you approached the limits you were sort of oscillating lightly between shades of understeer and oversteer, at least on one particular circle upon which I hooned. It had a good level of grip, but in terms of overall feel, I'd rather drive a good sport sedan or a hot hatch. On top of that, it was sort of lacking in actual utility. Seating was okay for 4, but the cargo area wasn't very impressive for 2+tons of vehicle.



Last edited by JeffX on 05-22-2018 09:18
Civicb18
Profile for Civicb18
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-05-2018 15:09
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
The Macanís bones stem from Audiís MLB platform as does the Cayenne, the Q5/7 and the A4-A7.
nightflow
Profile for nightflow
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-19-2018 23:00
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
JeffX wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
I don't see anything particularly surprising; it's a Q5 plank with a big/heavy V6 in place of the four.

You know the story, nose-heavy plank, probably brake- or torque-vectoring being a band-aid for FWD etc, etc, etc, yada yada yada....

I've driven none of them and so cannot comment on roll couples, polar moment of inertia, etc.

Let alone wheel/tyre specifications.

One might expect a skinnier-tyred vehicle with 50/50 mass distribution to generate less lateral grip, but to have a nicer, more natural breakaway-point feel. But with a FRED-laden top-heavy SUV, it's not necessarily gonna be the same as something like an S2000.

No Shaguar P-Face, which has BV and is closer to 50/50, an alloy shell and a suspension set up by a well-respected engineer?

So many variables...



I drove a Macan Turbo S a couple years ago and while I thought it was very nice, I was underwhelmed by the drive when you take price into consideration. The one I drove stickered at a shade over 100k. And I guess I expected it to be faster. The chassis was very good for a crossover, but I thought it was a little lacking in terms of yaw stability. Through a constant radius turn, as you approached the limits you were sort of oscillating lightly between shades of understeer and oversteer, at least on one particular circle upon which I hooned. It had a good level of grip, but in terms of overall feel, I'd rather drive a good sport sedan or a hot hatch. On top of that, it was sort of lacking in actual utility. Seating was okay for 4, but the cargo area wasn't very impressive for 2+tons of vehicle.



Thanks. Strange that the press, many forums (except this one ;)) and others that have test driven the Macan and the competitors tout the handling abilities above everything else it competes with, including X3 M40i, SQ5, GLC, F Pace, etc.

I understand that weight balance isn't everything, but it accounts for a lot. I also get that I can put sandbags in the back, however polar moment of inertia comes into play and it won't be as willing to turn in. I'd be willing to pay for a aluminum hood or a more elegant factory solution to a simple weight distribution problem.

I guess I'm hopeful that if the Macan can be as fun and handle as well as they say given it's weight balance, then why can't the new RDX?

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-20-2018 08:42
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
CarPhreakD wrote:
There's nothing magical about it- the Macan sits on much wider tires. Skidpad tests give a good idea of ultimate grip levels but it doesn't say anything about how it handles.

Anyways, if you want to reach ideal 50/50 weight distribution, you can toss some sandbags in the trunk. Context is important, because 50/50 means a lot more in a lightweight sportscar than a 4200+ lb vehicle.


It seems a little strange but when I've been able to drive some of the cool roads in the US like the Tail of the Dragon it was in our 1G RDX with three passengers and our vacation luggage in the way back. That car near its cargo limit was not fast but, good gravy, did it drive nicely on the twisty roads.

PoweredbyHondaX
Profile for PoweredbyHondaX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-20-2018 09:51
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
if youve driven a GTi Golf R you know what a mecan S feels like. just lower to the ground.
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-21-2018 17:33
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Unless said magazines test for bump compliance on the skidpad, these numbers aren't horribly useful for the average driver because they are mainly affected by things like tire size and compound and can be gamed with much stiffer suspension.

The weight distribution problem is overrated in an SUV, particularly because the CoG (and polar moment of inertia), has the biggest effect, and that has to do with the ride height of the vehicle relative to suspension roll centers front and rear. Because SUVs are just so FUCKING HEAVY, any reduction in the distance between CoG and roll center will allow you significant leeway in keeping the suspension compliant while tuning for best handling performance.

Grace141 wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
There's nothing magical about it- the Macan sits on much wider tires. Skidpad tests give a good idea of ultimate grip levels but it doesn't say anything about how it handles.

Anyways, if you want to reach ideal 50/50 weight distribution, you can toss some sandbags in the trunk. Context is important, because 50/50 means a lot more in a lightweight sportscar than a 4200+ lb vehicle.


It seems a little strange but when I've been able to drive some of the cool roads in the US like the Tail of the Dragon it was in our 1G RDX with three passengers and our vacation luggage in the way back. That car near its cargo limit was not fast but, good gravy, did it drive nicely on the twisty roads.



Honestly, you'd probably feel similar with certain Minivans. It appears that the jacked up trucklets are meant to be loaded down to a certain extent before spring preload is equalized and the dampers work at their best. Taking it to the extreme, try a Ford F-350 with and without a load in the back.

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-21-2018 19:53
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
nightflow wrote:
JeffX wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
I don't see anything particularly surprising; it's a Q5 plank with a big/heavy V6 in place of the four.

You know the story, nose-heavy plank, probably brake- or torque-vectoring being a band-aid for FWD etc, etc, etc, yada yada yada....

I've driven none of them and so cannot comment on roll couples, polar moment of inertia, etc.

Let alone wheel/tyre specifications.

One might expect a skinnier-tyred vehicle with 50/50 mass distribution to generate less lateral grip, but to have a nicer, more natural breakaway-point feel. But with a FRED-laden top-heavy SUV, it's not necessarily gonna be the same as something like an S2000.

No Shaguar P-Face, which has BV and is closer to 50/50, an alloy shell and a suspension set up by a well-respected engineer?

So many variables...



I drove a Macan Turbo S a couple years ago and while I thought it was very nice, I was underwhelmed by the drive when you take price into consideration. The one I drove stickered at a shade over 100k. And I guess I expected it to be faster. The chassis was very good for a crossover, but I thought it was a little lacking in terms of yaw stability. Through a constant radius turn, as you approached the limits you were sort of oscillating lightly between shades of understeer and oversteer, at least on one particular circle upon which I hooned. It had a good level of grip, but in terms of overall feel, I'd rather drive a good sport sedan or a hot hatch. On top of that, it was sort of lacking in actual utility. Seating was okay for 4, but the cargo area wasn't very impressive for 2+tons of vehicle.



Thanks. Strange that the press, many forums (except this one ;)) and others that have test driven the Macan and the competitors tout the handling abilities above everything else it competes with, including X3 M40i, SQ5, GLC, F Pace, etc.

I understand that weight balance isn't everything, but it accounts for a lot. I also get that I can put sandbags in the back, however polar moment of inertia comes into play and it won't be as willing to turn in. I'd be willing to pay for a aluminum hood or a more elegant factory solution to a simple weight distribution problem.

I guess I'm hopeful that if the Macan can be as fun and handle as well as they say given it's weight balance, then why can't the new RDX?



My comments about the Macan weren't in comparison to the competitive field of CUVs. I did not characterize it relative to them. I was speaking about how it felt compared to a proper sport sedan or even a good hot hatch, so I don't understand why you're comparing my comments to "the press and many forums" who have apparently touted that it has the best handling abilities of any CUV out there.

I have driven a lot of them - they all have to contend with a lot of mass and inertia. Some deal with it better than others. The Macan is definitely one of the sportiest ones. It would seem that Porsche addresses these challenges in a manner that is similar to how Acura does, by way of torque vectoring. This goes a long way towards changing the feel of a vehicle, and it can help mask some of the shortcomings of a particular configuration, including weight distribution. They also put really fat, sticky tires on them and relatively stiff springs and dampers. That surely helps.

With that said, I'm sure the new RDX can be "pretty fun" and it can handle pretty well. I mean, even the CR-V is reasonably fun to whip around, and this will surely have a sportier chassis tune, the benefit of torque vectoring, and a lot more juice. At least the RDX seems to have a better overall balance of utility, performance, and value/price than some of these other super-sporty CUVs that are twice the price.

So yeah, the Macan handles really well, "for a CUV". I wouldn't expect the RDX to be calibrated with the same levels of grip or spring/damping rates, though. I wouldn't expect the RDX's weight distribution to be much better than maybe 57/43, either. But SH-AWD should help mask some of that.



Last edited by JeffX on 05-22-2018 08:35
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 05:26
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
The Macan has a double-wishbone front end and the tranny behind the front axle.

It also probably has more expensive dampers and tyres than an RDX, so it bloody well ought to drive better!

But yeah, a low-slung car equivalent is always gonna do everything better dynamically than an SUV. Shame there's little market left for them.

NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 09:00
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Am I missing something? On one hand the new RDX is being compared to a Lexus NX and here it's the Porsche Macan S...

Is this the infamous "sweet spot" where Acura purports to exist?

honduh
Profile for honduh
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 09:02
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Market preferences notwithstanding, I do prefer Porsche's approach. Offer the money maker models but also offer the enthusiast options. Of course they can do that because of the brand heritage, and the rabid following for certain 911s.

Maybe it is just me, but I kind of wish ACURA would turn into that kind of performance brand for Honda. But I know they are too conservative.

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 09:16
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
NealX wrote:
Am I missing something? On one hand the new RDX is being compared to a Lexus NX and here it's the Porsche Macan S...

Is this the infamous "sweet spot" where Acura purports to exist?



I think the origin of this comparison stems from the thought of "can the RDX offer something close to this level of handling/fun-to-drive for a much more affordable price". This is not "Can the RDX go toe to toe with the Macan Turbo?"

I think it's going to be difficult to replicate the Macan's rear-biased layout but I'll wait until I drive it (SOON!) before determining how much the RDX's improved SH-AWD helps.




Last edited by JeffX on 05-22-2018 09:18
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 09:18
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Well, it's an Audi badged as a Porsche, so they do have a bit of a head start on both the plank and the branding kudos.

I think the point here is that Honda does have the engineering potential to make a car almost as good/more durable, but whether the lack of a meaningful brand and the pricing opportunity is probably causing them trepidation or not is open to conjecture.

Of course, if the headline were "shock horror: Acura makes a better car than Porsche!" it might do wonders for the brand perception. Wasn't there something similar about Ferrari a few decades back?

Pragmatically, the question was originally about static mass distribution and its effects on handling (though it is in fact a dynamic question) and as to whether the RDX would be disadvantaged.

The answer is probably not, unless one is prepared to spend a lot of money on a quality coilover kit, lighter wheels of the correct offset and sport-biased tyres. And possibly re-programming the SH-AWD bias...not the sorts of things the average buyer would ever contemplate.

And that's hoping the McP struts and basic architecture are up to the job, which we simply cannot know as yet.

But theoretically, the potential to get close may be there.

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 09:32
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Nick GravesX wrote:
Well, it's an Audi badged as a Porsche, so they do have a bit of a head start on both the plank and the branding kudos.

I think the point here is that Honda does have the engineering potential to make a car almost as good/more durable, but whether the lack of a meaningful brand and the pricing opportunity is probably causing them trepidation or not is open to conjecture.

Of course, if the headline were "shock horror: Acura makes a better car than Porsche!" it might do wonders for the brand perception. Wasn't there something similar about Ferrari a few decades back?

Pragmatically, the question was originally about static mass distribution and its effects on handling (though it is in fact a dynamic question) and as to whether the RDX would be disadvantaged.

The answer is probably not, unless one is prepared to spend a lot of money on a quality coilover kit, lighter wheels of the correct offset and sport-biased tyres. And possibly re-programming the SH-AWD bias...not the sorts of things the average buyer would ever contemplate.

And that's hoping the McP struts and basic architecture are up to the job, which we simply cannot know as yet.

But theoretically, the potential to get close may be there.



Yeah, and I just noticed Porsche's "Torque Vectoring Plus" (which is optional on the Macan) is actually brake based. I had incorrectly assumed it was a proper torque vectoring system.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 10:12
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
honduh wrote:
Market preferences notwithstanding, I do prefer Porsche's approach. Offer the money maker models but also offer the enthusiast options. Of course they can do that because of the brand heritage, and the rabid following for certain 911s.

Maybe it is just me, but I kind of wish ACURA would turn into that kind of performance brand for Honda. But I know they are too conservative.



You'd think someone at Honda would have been salivating at the McBigHuge profit margins over at Porsche. The time to have done something about the brand was about 15 years ago, but they swung towards further rebadges with the Power Plenum at the onset of the recession, and has fallen behind further since. It's pretty much too late to enter the premium sports market for this brand, especially because the landscape for desirable cars has changed now that Millennials have skipped that stage of their lives and are now having kids.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 10:12
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I didn't find the CR-V to be really a ton of fun, although the body is tight and motions are well controlled. What I did find, however, is that it's completely impervious to anything on the road, whether it's a foot of snow on the ground or Detroit sized craters. It's a pretty good CUV.

I do kind of miss the F-you approach Acura took with the first gen RDX. In many ways it was ahead of its time, being a sporty compact SUV with a turbocharged engine that had a harsher ride quality. While the new RDX lacks any sort of character (and thus desirability, at least with me), the softened and embiggened CR-V approach has managed to make it a better seller.

honduh
Profile for honduh
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 10:45
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Nick GravesX wrote:
Well, it's an Audi badged as a Porsche, so they do have a bit of a head start on both the plank and the branding kudos.

I think the point here is that Honda does have the engineering potential to make a car almost as good/more durable, but whether the lack of a meaningful brand and the pricing opportunity is probably causing them trepidation or not is open to conjecture.

Of course, if the headline were "shock horror: Acura makes a better car than Porsche!" it might do wonders for the brand perception. Wasn't there something similar about Ferrari a few decades back?

Pragmatically, the question was originally about static mass distribution and its effects on handling (though it is in fact a dynamic question) and as to whether the RDX would be disadvantaged.

The answer is probably not, unless one is prepared to spend a lot of money on a quality coilover kit, lighter wheels of the correct offset and sport-biased tyres. And possibly re-programming the SH-AWD bias...not the sorts of things the average buyer would ever contemplate.

And that's hoping the McP struts and basic architecture are up to the job, which we simply cannot know as yet.

But theoretically, the potential to get close may be there.

I was responding to your previous comment about how a proper "low-slung" car equivalent will ultimately be dynamically better. So as much as the Macan surprises for what it is...I like how Porsche also offers the Boxster's/Cayman's and the 911s etc for those that care more about that type of car.

Once upon a time, Honda did produce a sports car and at least in certain hands like C/D did beat a Porsche (Boxster). Not sure ultimately how that impacted brand perception, but as I predicted nice examples of S2000 are going for quite the pretty penny these days (bumming me out besides the fact that I don't have the garage space to acquire one). So I do believe it's not anything inherent in Honda's engineering, but just their business decisions, hence my comment about being conservative regarding to offering a new sport car offering (*).

As for the RDX, I agree about the average buyer and what ACURA may want to accomplish for that model. Perhaps some of that stuff will be incorporated into a Type-S version because it's supposed to be the modern "Integra" right? Who knows, it depends on where they want to take the Type-S sub-brand.

*How many times can we be teased about whether an "affordable" sports car from Honda is coming?

JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 10:47
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
CarPhreakD wrote:
I didn't find the CR-V to be really a ton of fun, although the body is tight and motions are well controlled. What I did find, however, is that it's completely impervious to anything on the road, whether it's a foot of snow on the ground or Detroit sized craters. It's a pretty good CUV.

I do kind of miss the F-you approach Acura took with the first gen RDX. In many ways it was ahead of its time, being a sporty compact SUV with a turbocharged engine that had a harsher ride quality. While the new RDX lacks any sort of character (and thus desirability, at least with me), the softened and embiggened CR-V approach has managed to make it a better seller.



yeah the CR-V really didn't open my eyes much until I started hammering it on a very twisty 2 lane near Monterey, CA. The CVT powertrain was definitely a killjoy but if you had clear enough road where you could stay into the throttle, the chassis did an admirable job of maintaining momentum. With a more responsive powertrain and upgraded chassis I could see it being quite a bit of fun. Even with touring/eco-grade all season tires the CR-Vs chassis generated a better level of grip than I would have anticipated and it's surprisingly quite good through transitions as well.


garoto
Profile for garoto
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 12:00
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
JeffX wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
I didn't find the CR-V to be really a ton of fun, although the body is tight and motions are well controlled. What I did find, however, is that it's completely impervious to anything on the road, whether it's a foot of snow on the ground or Detroit sized craters. It's a pretty good CUV.

I do kind of miss the F-you approach Acura took with the first gen RDX. In many ways it was ahead of its time, being a sporty compact SUV with a turbocharged engine that had a harsher ride quality. While the new RDX lacks any sort of character (and thus desirability, at least with me), the softened and embiggened CR-V approach has managed to make it a better seller.



yeah the CR-V really didn't open my eyes much until I started hammering it on a very twisty 2 lane near Monterey, CA. The CVT powertrain was definitely a killjoy but if you had clear enough road where you could stay into the throttle, the chassis did an admirable job of maintaining momentum. With a more responsive powertrain and upgraded chassis I could see it being quite a bit of fun. Even with touring/eco-grade all season tires the CR-Vs chassis generated a better level of grip than I would have anticipated and it's surprisingly quite good through transitions as well.




The CR-V does an amazing job in the twists. I was very impressed. Even at high speeds. The turbo engine is great. The car works beautifully with the turbo engine, but definitely a killjoy for spirited driving.


Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 12:39
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
honduh wrote:

I was responding to your previous comment about how a proper "low-slung" car equivalent will ultimately be dynamically better. So as much as the Macan surprises for what it is...I like how Porsche also offers the Boxster's/Cayman's and the 911s etc for those that care more about that type of car.

Once upon a time, Honda did produce a sports car and at least in certain hands like C/D did beat a Porsche (Boxster). Not sure ultimately how that impacted brand perception, but as I predicted nice examples of S2000 are going for quite the pretty penny these days (bumming me out besides the fact that I don't have the garage space to acquire one). So I do believe it's not anything inherent in Honda's engineering, but just their business decisions, hence my comment about being conservative regarding to offering a new sport car offering (*).

As for the RDX, I agree about the average buyer and what ACURA may want to accomplish for that model. Perhaps some of that stuff will be incorporated into a Type-S version because it's supposed to be the modern "Integra" right? Who knows, it depends on where they want to take the Type-S sub-brand.

*How many times can we be teased about whether an "affordable" sports car from Honda is coming?


Ah, I overlooked that.

I understand that even Porsche's sports car sales aren't all that good recently (stupid-priced 911s notwithstanding) and so even they are becoming dependent on SUbloodyVs.

If Lotus ever make a proper profit, it will be a miracle.

Whether there is any money in MX-5s would be interesting to know - I suspect Mazda makes them more for the kudos as their brand would be tepid without.

As for Honda, they're not even really lukewarm any more. The opportunity passed them by too long ago.

I believe there may be serious upheavals in the industry over the next few years and that many smaller manufacturers may disappear. Honda may be feeling paranoid with some justification, as much as their engineers would love to design a sports car.

Find yourself a tidy S2000 as soon as you get the opportunity. There'll be nothing quite like it again. Of that I can be almost certain.




TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 13:03
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Nick GravesX wrote:
...
Find yourself a tidy S2000 as soon as you get the opportunity. There'll be nothing quite like it again. Of that I can be almost certain.



I'm gonna break your heart...


...last week I saw a yellow S2K that had rear ended what looked like a pickup truck. (The other vehicle was no longer at the scene). From the A pillar forward it was a crumpled mess.

Good news, I guess, from the A pillar back it looked fine. The driver's door was opened.

I wonder if it could be repaired.

I felt sad when I saw that. But it looks like the S2K driver was not paying attention in traffic. Being SoCal, likely he was texting? And did not slow down when the traffic ahead of him came to a stop. WHAM!


CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 13:26
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I think Porsche sports cars "not being very good" might be a jaded perception (from the air-cooled crowd? Do those still exist?), because they're certainly the best you're going to get in this day and age. I find a base model Boxster/Cayman to already be more than enough car for most people, since they've gotten so fast.

The S2000 hasn't really risen in price very much, but like the Integra Type-R I feel like low mileage garage queens might be fetching good prices very soon. Particularly models like the CR.

CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 13:42
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Sorry- I missed the requisite keyword of "sales".
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 13:57
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
TonyEX wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
...
Find yourself a tidy S2000 as soon as you get the opportunity. There'll be nothing quite like it again. Of that I can be almost certain.



I'm gonna break your heart...


...last week I saw a yellow S2K that had rear ended what looked like a pickup truck. (The other vehicle was no longer at the scene). From the A pillar forward it was a crumpled mess.

Good news, I guess, from the A pillar back it looked fine. The driver's door was opened.

I wonder if it could be repaired.

I felt sad when I saw that. But it looks like the S2K driver was not paying attention in traffic. Being SoCal, likely he was texting? And did not slow down when the traffic ahead of him came to a stop. WHAM!




every time that happens, the value of my AP1 goes up a little bit more. The population of pristine S2000s is always declining.

honduh
Profile for honduh
Re: Porsche Macan S weight distro: 56.7/43.3    (Score: 1, Normal) 05-22-2018 14:53
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Nick GravesX wrote:
If Lotus ever make a proper profit, it will be a miracle.

Wish them luck under the new ownership. There needs to be more balance to the SUV-ness...oh wait they got one planned too.

Whether there is any money in MX-5s would be interesting to know - I suspect Mazda makes them more for the kudos as their brand would be tepid without.

Yes, I see it the same. I believe the CTR serves the same for Honda. Given their conservativeness, it makes sense...it's their kind of modern sporty car...not as risky and far less of a sales loser as a roadster, plus the CTR halo. Nothing to detract from it, just saying it serves a similar purpose.


Find yourself a tidy S2000 as soon as you get the opportunity. There'll be nothing quite like it again. Of that I can be almost certain.

True.


 
Thread Page - [1]
Go to:
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2018 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy
30 mobile: 0