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  TOV News > American Honda Sets 3rd Straight Annual Sales Record with Best-Ever December > > Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable

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bitex06
Profile for bitex06
The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 12:43
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I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?

DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 12:51
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Where are the negative comments?
vh2k
Profile for vh2k
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 13:08
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Well, the Civic and CRV are doing great. How's that for positive?

Pilot is doing OK... but getting creamed by the Highlander.

The best-in-class Accord is going to suffer in 2018 due to shift away from passenger cars.

Acura cars are in terrible shape. (There's some good old fashioned negativity for ya!!)

bitex06
Profile for bitex06
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 14:47
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There! what is so wrong with a balanced view of things as you just did? Hey, Perhaps I'm just trying to force my way of seeing things on others, which in itself is wrong. oh well.
cksi1372
Profile for cksi1372
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 16:15
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bitex06 wrote:
I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?



About the same length of time Acura has been pretty much a dud, IMO, and many other TOV'ers. Honda had a few questionable years, but seems to have turned it around quite a bit in the last 3-5 years, so I agree with you there. Can't speak for others, but for me, I'm just pretty disgusted with Acura for screwing things up for so long you kind of instinctively look at the negative. I want to give my money to Acura, but there's just nothing in the lineup I want...even the NSX. I think the disappointment leads to the negativity...95% Acura, 5% Honda, especially for those that grew up with Honda/Acura and have been on this site since almost the beginning.

bitex06
Profile for bitex06
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 16:51
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cksi1372 wrote:
bitex06 wrote:
I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?



About the same length of time Acura has been pretty much a dud, IMO, and many other TOV'ers. Honda had a few questionable years, but seems to have turned it around quite a bit in the last 3-5 years, so I agree with you there. Can't speak for others, but for me, I'm just pretty disgusted with Acura for screwing things up for so long you kind of instinctively look at the negative. I want to give my money to Acura, but there's just nothing in the lineup I want...even the NSX. I think the disappointment leads to the negativity...95% Acura, 5% Honda, especially for those that grew up with Honda/Acura and have been on this site since almost the beginning.



Touche. I agree with all the points made, but I was just hoping that there would be more balanced view of things happening. It's like having that wife that constantly complains, and you don't even know when you're doing right or wrong anymore. The worst thing that could happen to Honda is watching a site like this, like they do, and just continue to put lackluster products out (especially Acura) with "They will complain, good or bad anyway" attitude.

I too wanted something from Acura in 2013 to replace my 07 Accord V6, but I couldn't find any and went across to Lexus to get a then new 2013 Lexus GS350 F-Sport.

I wish Acura would have had something then, but jeez, doesn't mean I get to come here and just only put out negative stuff, and then nowhere to be found when something overwhelmingly positive pops ou from Honda once in a while. Though things are admittedly looking much better now for Honda these days, and that is always a great thing.

DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 17:32
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bitex06 wrote:
I too wanted something from Acura in 2013 to replace my 07 Accord V6, but I couldn't find any and went across to Lexus to get a then new 2013 Lexus GS350 F-Sport.


...so we actually buy Honda vehicles and complain about things we don't like or changes that come along that run counter to the enthusiast, but that is somehow worse than buying a Lexus and whining that everyone here is so negative about Honda, and that somehow WE are responsible for their stupid decisions and poor product planning?

Thanks for the laugh...and if you are actually serious, I think they sell common sense on Amazon now, 2 day Prime.




mad_ox1
Profile for mad_ox1
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 17:39
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Well, it all comes down to expectations. This is the Temple of VTEC with a redlining needle in the logo. I would guess that as many people came here because of the Integra (and the B and H series of engines in general) as anything else.

Today's Honda doesn't really resonate the same way. They make great cars, but there is no Integra, no Prelude, no S2000. They have a CTR that is in such low volumes to as be near meaningless and an NSX that falls into the same category with a massive MSRP on top.

Look at their top-rated cars, CRV, Civic, Accord. Great cars, good, MPG, good expected reliability, but they are appliance-type vehicles. Sure they are sportier than RAV4, Corolla, Camry, but that isn't much of a bar to clear.

Porsche builds a bunch of dumb SUV's, but they are still pushing out top-tier 911's, They have not moved on from the formula that built their fan-base. They are still rear-engine, still offer the flat 6, and still focus on driving. You can even get them with NA high-rev NA engines and MTs. I would hope that Honda would be capable of funneling some CRV profits into true spiritual successors for cars like S2000, Prelude, Integra, and/or CRX, etc.

We may be like Concord enthusiasts, where we love and support something that is no longer viable/offered to us, but that doesn't mean we should stop telling Honda that what they are offering is not matching what we want. If they can make a case for RLX, Crosstour, Insight sales volumes, they could build some sporty cars to their old formula and standards. The low volumes would actually help if you are too worried about new MPG standards.

I could care less if there are only a handful of people in the world who want the same car that I do, I still want that car built and offered for sale.

bitex06
Profile for bitex06
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 18:34
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DCR wrote:
bitex06 wrote:
I too wanted something from Acura in 2013 to replace my 07 Accord V6, but I couldn't find any and went across to Lexus to get a then new 2013 Lexus GS350 F-Sport.


...so we actually buy Honda vehicles and complain about things we don't like or changes that come along that run counter to the enthusiast, but that is somehow worse than buying a Lexus and whining that everyone here is so negative about Honda, and that somehow WE are responsible for their stupid decisions and poor product planning?

Thanks for the laugh...and if you are actually serious, I think they sell common sense on Amazon now, 2 day Prime.






The joke is on you. But I refuse to be dragged into your childish tirade. You seem to be taking this more personally than anyone else here, I wonder why. I am the first in my family to actually buy a Toyota product, 39 Honda product and counting. The next car for me would either be the current Accord, or the TLX based on execution. None of that means I have to be here looking so hard (sometimes it is easy to find) for every reason to be negative and offer NOTHING positive.

You have an accord 6-6, your wife drives a Juke. You have made it known to everyone that your next car probably wouldn't be a Honda. So, what exactly is the difference between you and I in that regard again? I'd answer that, but do I really have to go into a trade of insult with you or anyone for that matter? No, nothing in the world is worth any of that.

I come here to look forward to the balanced views of Owequitit, Shawn, JeffX, Nick, Fitdad, Grace, V2hk and the likes. You can learn a thing or two about constructive criticisms from those lots. You take care now.

bitex06
Profile for bitex06
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 18:47
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mad_ox1 wrote:
Well, it all comes down to expectations. This is the Temple of VTEC with a redlining needle in the logo. I would guess that as many people came here because of the Integra (and the B and H series of engines in general) as anything else.

Today's Honda doesn't really resonate the same way. They make great cars, but there is no Integra, no Prelude, no S2000. They have a CTR that is in such low volumes to as be near meaningless and an NSX that falls into the same category with a massive MSRP on top.

Look at their top-rated cars, CRV, Civic, Accord. Great cars, good, MPG, good expected reliability, but they are appliance-type vehicles. Sure they are sportier than RAV4, Corolla, Camry, but that isn't much of a bar to clear.

Porsche builds a bunch of dumb SUV's, but they are still pushing out top-tier 911's, They have not moved on from the formula that built their fan-base. They are still rear-engine, still offer the flat 6, and still focus on driving. You can even get them with NA high-rev NA engines and MTs. I would hope that Honda would be capable of funneling some CRV profits into true spiritual successors for cars like S2000, Prelude, Integra, and/or CRX, etc.

We may be like Concord enthusiasts, where we love and support something that is no longer viable/offered to us, but that doesn't mean we should stop telling Honda that what they are offering is not matching what we want. If they can make a case for RLX, Crosstour, Insight sales volumes, they could build some sporty cars to their old formula and standards. The low volumes would actually help if you are too worried about new MPG standards.

I could care less if there are only a handful of people in the world who want the same car that I do, I still want that car built and offered for sale.



Thank you! Whether one agrees with you or not (I agreed for 90% of it) on this piece, no one can call this anything other than a well thought out constructive criticism! They are the reasons myself and my extended family keeps coming back to Honda, hoping they will get their mojo back. Some are very satisfied, others less so. Let's keep it balanced is all I cried.

TL_06
Profile for TL_06
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 19:04
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It's the nature of the internet. People can make an assertion without establishing objective fact and citing sources, or presenting plausible reasoning. It's just too tiring to take on every poster showing crap-for-brains, so crap wins out. It's a lot of work to Moderate these posters out. Motor Trend just gave up and eliminated reader comments, such was the quality of their commenter base.
atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 19:40
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cksi1372 wrote:
bitex06 wrote:
I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?



About the same length of time Acura has been pretty much a dud, IMO, and many other TOV'ers. Honda had a few questionable years, but seems to have turned it around quite a bit in the last 3-5 years, so I agree with you there. Can't speak for others, but for me, I'm just pretty disgusted with Acura for screwing things up for so long you kind of instinctively look at the negative. I want to give my money to Acura, but there's just nothing in the lineup I want...even the NSX. I think the disappointment leads to the negativity...95% Acura, 5% Honda, especially for those that grew up with Honda/Acura and have been on this site since almost the beginning.


I've been here since early 2007, and I agree with this observation. The 2G TSX and 4G TL were huge disappointments in terms of styling, handling, performance vs. the competition, and overall technological advancement. 2009-2010 was when everything just started to fall apart for the enthusiast with regards to Acura.

It says a lot that many of the recent high-traffic threads here at ToV have been bitter disputes over Tesla and BEV technology. I have been of the opinion that a technological shift away from ICE and towards BEV is happening. At one point, something like 5 of the top 10 or 15 threads in the "Today's Reading Links" section of ToV forums were lengthy, acrimonious arguments about Tesla (and no, I did not start all of these threads, though I participated a lot). It's pretty much a symptom of Acura just not moving the bar and having something for people to discuss.

cksi1372
Profile for cksi1372
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 19:47
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bitex06 wrote:
cksi1372 wrote:
bitex06 wrote:
I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?



About the same length of time Acura has been pretty much a dud, IMO, and many other TOV'ers. Honda had a few questionable years, but seems to have turned it around quite a bit in the last 3-5 years, so I agree with you there. Can't speak for others, but for me, I'm just pretty disgusted with Acura for screwing things up for so long you kind of instinctively look at the negative. I want to give my money to Acura, but there's just nothing in the lineup I want...even the NSX. I think the disappointment leads to the negativity...95% Acura, 5% Honda, especially for those that grew up with Honda/Acura and have been on this site since almost the beginning.



Touche. I agree with all the points made, but I was just hoping that there would be more balanced view of things happening. It's like having that wife that constantly complains, and you don't even know when you're doing right or wrong anymore. The worst thing that could happen to Honda is watching a site like this, like they do, and just continue to put lackluster products out (especially Acura) with "They will complain, good or bad anyway" attitude.

I too wanted something from Acura in 2013 to replace my 07 Accord V6, but I couldn't find any and went across to Lexus to get a then new 2013 Lexus GS350 F-Sport.

I wish Acura would have had something then, but jeez, doesn't mean I get to come here and just only put out negative stuff, and then nowhere to be found when something overwhelmingly positive pops ou from Honda once in a while. Though things are admittedly looking much better now for Honda these days, and that is always a great thing.



Well, if it helps, the better-half loves her 11 MDX (I actually like it a lot, too), although at 114k miles it is getting a little long in the tooth and developing a "whine" that we thought was fixed by replacing one of the pulley's. I'm afraid it's the transmission now, and if so, Honda/Acura will probably be off our vehicle purchase list for a long time. It would be our 3rd Honda/Acura trans crap out in about 17 years...not good. Overall, it's been a great family/travel vehicle, though.

And like you, I couldn't/can't find anything from Acura I want, so escaped to the German's...and I still come here more than any other automotive site. Hopefully, not to complain all the time, but it's hard with Acura. I kinda relate it to my football team (Bengals)...they always disappoint and I complain, but still keep rooting for them. I should just give up and stick with college (Buckeyes), not much too complain about there...other than the biased, stupid selection committee. HA!

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 20:05
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bitex06 wrote:
I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?



The Sky Is Falling...

100% drop for the TSX.

OMG!

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 20:07
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
cksi1372 wrote:
bitex06 wrote:
I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?



About the same length of time Acura has been pretty much a dud, IMO, and many other TOV'ers. Honda had a few questionable years, but seems to have turned it around quite a bit in the last 3-5 years, so I agree with you there. Can't speak for others, but for me, I'm just pretty disgusted with Acura for screwing things up for so long you kind of instinctively look at the negative. I want to give my money to Acura, but there's just nothing in the lineup I want...even the NSX. I think the disappointment leads to the negativity...95% Acura, 5% Honda, especially for those that grew up with Honda/Acura and have been on this site since almost the beginning.


I've been here since early 2007, and I agree with this observation. The 2G TSX and 4G TL were huge disappointments in terms of styling, handling, performance vs. the competition, and overall technological advancement. 2009-2010 was when everything just started to fall apart for the enthusiast with regards to Acura.

It says a lot that many of the recent high-traffic threads here at ToV have been bitter disputes over Tesla and BEV technology. I have been of the opinion that a technological shift away from ICE and towards BEV is happening. At one point, something like 5 of the top 10 or 15 threads in the "Today's Reading Links" section of ToV forums were lengthy, acrimonious arguments about Tesla (and no, I did not start all of these threads, though I participated a lot). It's pretty much a symptom of Acura just not moving the bar and having something for people to discuss.



Really?

The 2G TSX Sport Wagon is likely one of the best cars the Honda Motor Company has ever designed and built.



DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-03-2018 22:31
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bitex06 wrote:
You have an accord 6-6, your wife drives a Juke.


You are wrong, but that is fine.

I'm going back to ruining the Honda product lineup, take care now.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 01:00
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
cksi1372 wrote:
bitex06 wrote:
I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?



About the same length of time Acura has been pretty much a dud, IMO, and many other TOV'ers. Honda had a few questionable years, but seems to have turned it around quite a bit in the last 3-5 years, so I agree with you there. Can't speak for others, but for me, I'm just pretty disgusted with Acura for screwing things up for so long you kind of instinctively look at the negative. I want to give my money to Acura, but there's just nothing in the lineup I want...even the NSX. I think the disappointment leads to the negativity...95% Acura, 5% Honda, especially for those that grew up with Honda/Acura and have been on this site since almost the beginning.


I've been here since early 2007, and I agree with this observation. The 2G TSX and 4G TL were huge disappointments in terms of styling, handling, performance vs. the competition, and overall technological advancement. 2009-2010 was when everything just started to fall apart for the enthusiast with regards to Acura.

It says a lot that many of the recent high-traffic threads here at ToV have been bitter disputes over Tesla and BEV technology. I have been of the opinion that a technological shift away from ICE and towards BEV is happening. At one point, something like 5 of the top 10 or 15 threads in the "Today's Reading Links" section of ToV forums were lengthy, acrimonious arguments about Tesla (and no, I did not start all of these threads, though I participated a lot). It's pretty much a symptom of Acura just not moving the bar and having something for people to discuss.



Come on now. In the interest of being fair and balanced, let's tell the whole truth about those Tesla threads.

They have a lot less to do with general excitement over masses of BEV's and a lot more to do with blind fanaticism...

Just keep it balanced for you.

And yes, as for the sentiments on Acura, they are correct. They SHOULD do better. I used to say COULD do better, but anymore I am not so sure.

Honda has been firing on almost all cylinders lately, although you still see evidence of the bean counting thugs here and there.

rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 07:50
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Well heck man. Look at the state of Acura's sedans. My goodness. We can't help it they are not giving us the ammo to be positive man. It is what it is.

Honda on the other hand is doing pretty well. Although I do think they missed the mark on the new Civic Si. The CTR is a pretty awesome machine, but low volume. There have been rumors of an S2000 followup for litterally years now with very little to show for it. Honda's doing great "appliance-wise", but I feel they can do better where the enthusiast offerings are concerned. There is a reason the TOV logo has a tach built into it...

CanTeX
Profile for CanTeX
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 08:51
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rev2damoon wrote:
Well heck man. Look at the state of Acura's sedans. My goodness. We can't help it they are not giving us the ammo to be positive man. It is what it is.

Honda on the other hand is doing pretty well. Although I do think they missed the mark on the new Civic Si. The CTR is a pretty awesome machine, but low volume. There have been rumors of an S2000 followup for litterally years now with very little to show for it. Honda's doing great "appliance-wise", but I feel they can do better where the enthusiast offerings are concerned. There is a reason the TOV logo has a tach built into it...


The only Honda dud that I actually bought was the Crosstour. Super-functional but ugly. Super-reliable though. The original RL started Acura going in the wrong direction, cutting off the natural path within Acura from my ‘93 Legend to something equivalent. I thought my ‘10 TSX In Basque Red Pearl was pretty nifty and I’m sorry I dumped it in favor of the leased TLX. We have that ‘17 RDX and I have been officially cut off from buying a second car (we’re retired) but we’re having more and more scheduling conflicts, soooo, no Acura’s on my list, which goes from CX-5 to CR-V to Volvo XC60, should the spousal unit loosen up and the financial markets remain healthy. No Acuras anytime soon. So yes, more Acura bashing than Honda bashing on this forum, unfortunately. Maybe the new RDX will turn that around.

rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 09:20
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CanTeX wrote:
rev2damoon wrote:
Well heck man. Look at the state of Acura's sedans. My goodness. We can't help it they are not giving us the ammo to be positive man. It is what it is.

Honda on the other hand is doing pretty well. Although I do think they missed the mark on the new Civic Si. The CTR is a pretty awesome machine, but low volume. There have been rumors of an S2000 followup for litterally years now with very little to show for it. Honda's doing great "appliance-wise", but I feel they can do better where the enthusiast offerings are concerned. There is a reason the TOV logo has a tach built into it...


The only Honda dud that I actually bought was the Crosstour. Super-functional but ugly. Super-reliable though. The original RL started Acura going in the wrong direction, cutting off the natural path within Acura from my ‘93 Legend to something equivalent. I thought my ‘10 TSX In Basque Red Pearl was pretty nifty and I’m sorry I dumped it in favor of the leased TLX. We have that ‘17 RDX and I have been officially cut off from buying a second car (we’re retired) but we’re having more and more scheduling conflicts, soooo, no Acura’s on my list, which goes from CX-5 to CR-V to Volvo XC60, should the spousal unit loosen up and the financial markets remain healthy. No Acuras anytime soon. So yes, more Acura bashing than Honda bashing on this forum, unfortunately. Maybe the new RDX will turn that around.


I have a feeling the new RDX will do pretty well despite loosing the V6. I do see some promising hints stylingwise from the teaser they showed. Some spy shots do make it seem a bit off, but those things a heavily camouflaged. So...I'll just shut it until they actually reveal the thing.

I would love to have an Acura. I waited, but unfortunately they did not have anything in the class in which I was looking (compact CUV). I ended up with the X1. I do think this class would be an amazing opportunity for Acura using the CTR as a starting point.

CanTeX
Profile for CanTeX
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 10:09
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How’s that X1 working out for you? I just added the X3 to my maybe-never second-car list based on the review in the Feb. Motor Trend.
rev2damoon
Profile for rev2damoon
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 11:01
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CanTeX wrote:
How’s that X1 working out for you? I just added the X3 to my maybe-never second-car list based on the review in the Feb. Motor Trend.

I'm very happy with the X1 so far.

Pros, in no particular order:
1. Pretty fun to drive. It handles very well for the type of vehicle that it is. Feels very car-like. Sport mode firms up the suspention, but it's still pretty comfortable.

2. Good balance between sporty driving and economy. The motor is one of the best parts of this model. You do have to be in sport mode to reap the benefits though which I don't mind at all. I'm in sport mode 95+% of the time and still manage a respectable 27 MPG in mixed driving. I like the manual mode for the 8SPD transmission. You have a certain level of control over your own destiny which I like.

3. Practicality and Cargo. Best in class and more than sufficient for my needs. Have a 70 lb dog who fits comfortably in the back.

4. Pretty high quality interior. I have not had any issues thus far.

5. Good sound system.

6. Good infotainment system. It's very intuitive and easily navigated.

Cons:
1. Well, its FWD. I wish they had stayed with RWD, but it wasn't a deal breaker this time based on overall needs and desires.

My wife used to have an older X3. I believe it was a 2010 or 11. It was very nice. Drove extremely well. I haven't driven the newer ones though.

Archknight77
Profile for Archknight77
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 12:31
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bitex06 wrote:
mad_ox1 wrote:
Well, it all comes down to expectations. This is the Temple of VTEC with a redlining needle in the logo. I would guess that as many people came here because of the Integra (and the B and H series of engines in general) as anything else.

Today's Honda doesn't really resonate the same way. They make great cars, but there is no Integra, no Prelude, no S2000. They have a CTR that is in such low volumes to as be near meaningless and an NSX that falls into the same category with a massive MSRP on top.

Look at their top-rated cars, CRV, Civic, Accord. Great cars, good, MPG, good expected reliability, but they are appliance-type vehicles. Sure they are sportier than RAV4, Corolla, Camry, but that isn't much of a bar to clear.

Porsche builds a bunch of dumb SUV's, but they are still pushing out top-tier 911's, They have not moved on from the formula that built their fan-base. They are still rear-engine, still offer the flat 6, and still focus on driving. You can even get them with NA high-rev NA engines and MTs. I would hope that Honda would be capable of funneling some CRV profits into true spiritual successors for cars like S2000, Prelude, Integra, and/or CRX, etc.

We may be like Concord enthusiasts, where we love and support something that is no longer viable/offered to us, but that doesn't mean we should stop telling Honda that what they are offering is not matching what we want. If they can make a case for RLX, Crosstour, Insight sales volumes, they could build some sporty cars to their old formula and standards. The low volumes would actually help if you are too worried about new MPG standards.

I could care less if there are only a handful of people in the world who want the same car that I do, I still want that car built and offered for sale.



Thank you! Whether one agrees with you or not (I agreed for 90% of it) on this piece, no one can call this anything other than a well thought out constructive criticism! They are the reasons myself and my extended family keeps coming back to Honda, hoping they will get their mojo back. Some are very satisfied, others less so. Let's keep it balanced is all I cried.



@ bitex06,

There are some of us that expect great things from Honda, as they've always been a leader in performance and technology. It's been hard to keep a purely positive outlook over the last decade or so, considering how many letdowns that have come through the pipeline. Now, with this new release of product there is a lot of enthusiasm surrounding the brands, specifically Acura.

I, for one, have been critical of Acura from design to powerplants. I'm tired of the brand just being known for "fancy Hondas" and want it to be seen on the same playing field as the heavy hitters (MB, AUDI, BMW, and Lexus). With the "Precision Concept", no matter how you look at it, there is new excitement surrounding the brand that brought us the Legend and Integra. The NSX is a great start to reinventing the image, but they have to push those attainable models to the same level. People want the best for the companies they love and the critisms are there to push the brands to succeed.

lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 13:16
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TonyEX wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
cksi1372 wrote:
bitex06 wrote:
I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?



About the same length of time Acura has been pretty much a dud, IMO, and many other TOV'ers. Honda had a few questionable years, but seems to have turned it around quite a bit in the last 3-5 years, so I agree with you there. Can't speak for others, but for me, I'm just pretty disgusted with Acura for screwing things up for so long you kind of instinctively look at the negative. I want to give my money to Acura, but there's just nothing in the lineup I want...even the NSX. I think the disappointment leads to the negativity...95% Acura, 5% Honda, especially for those that grew up with Honda/Acura and have been on this site since almost the beginning.


I've been here since early 2007, and I agree with this observation. The 2G TSX and 4G TL were huge disappointments in terms of styling, handling, performance vs. the competition, and overall technological advancement. 2009-2010 was when everything just started to fall apart for the enthusiast with regards to Acura.

It says a lot that many of the recent high-traffic threads here at ToV have been bitter disputes over Tesla and BEV technology. I have been of the opinion that a technological shift away from ICE and towards BEV is happening. At one point, something like 5 of the top 10 or 15 threads in the "Today's Reading Links" section of ToV forums were lengthy, acrimonious arguments about Tesla (and no, I did not start all of these threads, though I participated a lot). It's pretty much a symptom of Acura just not moving the bar and having something for people to discuss.



Really?

The 2G TSX Sport Wagon is likely one of the best cars the Honda Motor Company has ever designed and built.




Says who? The 5 people in the US who love sporty wagons?

Brutus
Profile for Brutus
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 13:28
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I would agree that the negativity is a bit overbearing, but in general this is like everywhere. When people want to they are more likely to complain then compliment on these forums, reviews or otherwise. Saying all this there have been some stellar failures like the RLX or the ILX. Acura has moved away from those Integra days to a more luxury thing but they are still not there, so are just flowing in between. There has been more choices then ever in the marketplace. The industry has moved from enthusiast cars to SUV/CUV's.

So complaints about Acura seems to fall in the lack of more sporting products, yet the market continues to move towards CUV's and this Acura has done very well. Argue all you want but the MDX and RDX are successful good products. The TLX maybe not perfect as it is missing that 6sp Type S model but it is a solid offering... I recall test driving a ton of stuff back when I bought my TLX and nothing offered as much bang for the buck.

I think the NSX is a sweet product, have not driven it, but I love it, love the technology, the styling, the direction they went. I just bought an MDX, and I love it.

I think Acura could do a lot right by improving the interior, offering SHAWD throughout and DCT throughout. Also where are the type S/R or otherwise sport versions which should be on every single product. I think Acura is missing product, need a small cuv, and coupe, some other things

The new RDX shows a ton of promise, the sport hybrid set-up looks like a winner at a reasonable cost... again make this available on every single product. The interior from what I could make out in the RDX also looks good so far.

B.

bitex06
Profile for bitex06
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 18:04
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Archknight77 wrote:
bitex06 wrote:
mad_ox1 wrote:
Well, it all comes down to expectations. This is the Temple of VTEC with a redlining needle in the logo. I would guess that as many people came here because of the Integra (and the B and H series of engines in general) as anything else.

Today's Honda doesn't really resonate the same way. They make great cars, but there is no Integra, no Prelude, no S2000. They have a CTR that is in such low volumes to as be near meaningless and an NSX that falls into the same category with a massive MSRP on top.

Look at their top-rated cars, CRV, Civic, Accord. Great cars, good, MPG, good expected reliability, but they are appliance-type vehicles. Sure they are sportier than RAV4, Corolla, Camry, but that isn't much of a bar to clear.

Porsche builds a bunch of dumb SUV's, but they are still pushing out top-tier 911's, They have not moved on from the formula that built their fan-base. They are still rear-engine, still offer the flat 6, and still focus on driving. You can even get them with NA high-rev NA engines and MTs. I would hope that Honda would be capable of funneling some CRV profits into true spiritual successors for cars like S2000, Prelude, Integra, and/or CRX, etc.

We may be like Concord enthusiasts, where we love and support something that is no longer viable/offered to us, but that doesn't mean we should stop telling Honda that what they are offering is not matching what we want. If they can make a case for RLX, Crosstour, Insight sales volumes, they could build some sporty cars to their old formula and standards. The low volumes would actually help if you are too worried about new MPG standards.

I could care less if there are only a handful of people in the world who want the same car that I do, I still want that car built and offered for sale.



Thank you! Whether one agrees with you or not (I agreed for 90% of it) on this piece, no one can call this anything other than a well thought out constructive criticism! They are the reasons myself and my extended family keeps coming back to Honda, hoping they will get their mojo back. Some are very satisfied, others less so. Let's keep it balanced is all I cried.



@ bitex06,

There are some of us that expect great things from Honda, as they've always been a leader in performance and technology. It's been hard to keep a purely positive outlook over the last decade or so, considering how many letdowns that have come through the pipeline. Now, with this new release of product there is a lot of enthusiasm surrounding the brands, specifically Acura.

I, for one, have been critical of Acura from design to powerplants. I'm tired of the brand just being known for "fancy Hondas" and want it to be seen on the same playing field as the heavy hitters (MB, AUDI, BMW, and Lexus). With the "Precision Concept", no matter how you look at it, there is new excitement surrounding the brand that brought us the Legend and Integra. The NSX is a great start to reinventing the image, but they have to push those attainable models to the same level. People want the best for the companies they love and the critisms are there to push the brands to succeed.



I agree with this assessment, hence my decision to buy a Lexus product and being the first in my extended family to do so till date. I am still waiting for Acura to get it together like most of the people here, but some of the comments here on TOV have been over-the-top some time. Granted most of it is deserved, but where are the views from the other end.

And here is what I mean: My GS is the first car I have ever bought, where I continue to love it less and less as the years go by. Never did this ever happen to me with any of my past Honda/Acura purchases. Little tangible things like the quality or attention to details. Everyone praises Lexus' qualities and attention to details, and I always scratch my head when I hear that. Save for their latest SC500, I just do not get these so called details. I miss the sound of my Honda/Acura when closing the door. I have hated the way my GS door closes since I bought it. Little things like that matter.

That is what I mean by cries for a little perspectives from some of the posters here, because this really is a great place to kill time during the day.

TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 19:58
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lexusgs wrote:
TonyEX wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
cksi1372 wrote:
bitex06 wrote:
I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?



About the same length of time Acura has been pretty much a dud, IMO, and many other TOV'ers. Honda had a few questionable years, but seems to have turned it around quite a bit in the last 3-5 years, so I agree with you there. Can't speak for others, but for me, I'm just pretty disgusted with Acura for screwing things up for so long you kind of instinctively look at the negative. I want to give my money to Acura, but there's just nothing in the lineup I want...even the NSX. I think the disappointment leads to the negativity...95% Acura, 5% Honda, especially for those that grew up with Honda/Acura and have been on this site since almost the beginning.


I've been here since early 2007, and I agree with this observation. The 2G TSX and 4G TL were huge disappointments in terms of styling, handling, performance vs. the competition, and overall technological advancement. 2009-2010 was when everything just started to fall apart for the enthusiast with regards to Acura.

It says a lot that many of the recent high-traffic threads here at ToV have been bitter disputes over Tesla and BEV technology. I have been of the opinion that a technological shift away from ICE and towards BEV is happening. At one point, something like 5 of the top 10 or 15 threads in the "Today's Reading Links" section of ToV forums were lengthy, acrimonious arguments about Tesla (and no, I did not start all of these threads, though I participated a lot). It's pretty much a symptom of Acura just not moving the bar and having something for people to discuss.



Really?

The 2G TSX Sport Wagon is likely one of the best cars the Honda Motor Company has ever designed and built.




Says who? The 5 people in the US who love sporty wagons?



There are a few here at ToV... Jeff and I love them!

Why do you have to pass so much judgement on cars you know little about?



None
Profile for None
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 20:15
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bitex06 wrote:
I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?



LOL, the main culprit ask...
"Where are the negative comments?"

THX17201
Profile for THX17201
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 20:26
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bitex06 wrote:
Granted most of it is deserved, but where are the views from the other end.
/I]


If it's deserved then what's the problem? There's not much on the good end to talk about with Acura. Hopefully the SUVs are good. The sedans, I doubt it...

atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: The negative tones on TOV is becoming unbearable [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-04-2018 20:33
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TonyEX wrote:
atomiclightbulb wrote:
cksi1372 wrote:
bitex06 wrote:
I am always amazed by some people's fascination with looking for the negatives in ANY press release. You are always guaranteed to see the same people run to make negative comments as soon as they can find that 1 negative out of 100 positive ones.
I have been following this site for over 10 years now, and it keeps getting worse every year. What gives?



About the same length of time Acura has been pretty much a dud, IMO, and many other TOV'ers. Honda had a few questionable years, but seems to have turned it around quite a bit in the last 3-5 years, so I agree with you there. Can't speak for others, but for me, I'm just pretty disgusted with Acura for screwing things up for so long you kind of instinctively look at the negative. I want to give my money to Acura, but there's just nothing in the lineup I want...even the NSX. I think the disappointment leads to the negativity...95% Acura, 5% Honda, especially for those that grew up with Honda/Acura and have been on this site since almost the beginning.


I've been here since early 2007, and I agree with this observation. The 2G TSX and 4G TL were huge disappointments in terms of styling, handling, performance vs. the competition, and overall technological advancement. 2009-2010 was when everything just started to fall apart for the enthusiast with regards to Acura.

It says a lot that many of the recent high-traffic threads here at ToV have been bitter disputes over Tesla and BEV technology. I have been of the opinion that a technological shift away from ICE and towards BEV is happening. At one point, something like 5 of the top 10 or 15 threads in the "Today's Reading Links" section of ToV forums were lengthy, acrimonious arguments about Tesla (and no, I did not start all of these threads, though I participated a lot). It's pretty much a symptom of Acura just not moving the bar and having something for people to discuss.



Really?

The 2G TSX Sport Wagon is likely one of the best cars the Honda Motor Company has ever designed and built.





There are a few things to keep in mind though:

The TSX Wagon didn't arrive until 2 model years after the TSX Sedan. Go back and read the reviews of the TSX Sedan for Model Year 2009. Reviewers commented that the 2G TSX's steering sucked (vague, twitchy), and the overall powertrain and handling were less sharp than the predecessor TSX. It was a disappointment, big time.

Acura revised the steering for the 2011 TSX Sport Wagon.

Unfortunately, the Sport Wagon did not have a 6MT option like the sedan, and it was ultimately a low volume product.

While the TSX Sport Wagon is a very good or even great product IMO, it wasn't nearly enough to offset the general malaise of the Acura product line. By this point, Acura was kept afloat on RDX and MDX sales to soccer moms.


 
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