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  TOV News > All-New 10th Generation Honda Accord Launching This Year with Advanced New Powertrain Lineup > > Re: Farewell, old friend...

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CB77
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Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 17:09
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Having driven Accords for 41 years, and having owned every generation of this car, I am saddened and concerned over these changes. I switched over the the V6 option when it first became available some 23 years ago...and I do not want to go back to a 4-cylinder. I don't care how many bobweights, balance shafts, trick motor mounts and how much other electronic trickery you use...you will never get that wonderful, silky, luxurious feeling and sound of a V6 with a 4.

I also do not believe they will be able to get the longevity out of this engine that we have come to expect...and its complexity will be a real challenge to the dealerships' service departments, many of whom are just barely keeping up now.

I hate to think of ending my string of Accord ownership, and I will try to keep an open mind until I see and drive one...but I am highly skeptical.


jer
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 17:15
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I would definitely wait and see how it sounds & handles with the 4 cyl. We went from a 6 to a 4 with this last gen. The current Accord is used for a lot of city/stop & go traffic and the occasional hwy trip. Have not been disappointed
PoweredbyHondaX
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 17:22
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it will probably handle way better with the lighter engine...and feel more dynamic. i think its gonna be the best accord ever.
DCR
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 17:24
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Farewell indeed.
MGP999
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 17:31
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DCR wrote:
Farewell indeed.

No farewell. Should be hello to the future. If you have read the first impression articles it shows an improvement in performance and efficiency while still giving you the option of a manual transmission with a potentially best in class 10 spd trans. I don't understand your dismay, you get one of two things you want with the other being replaced by something potentially better.

Mikgtir
Profile for Mikgtir
Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 17:36
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jer wrote:
I would definitely wait and see how it sounds & handles with the 4 cyl. We went from a 6 to a 4 with this last gen. The current Accord is used for a lot of city/stop & go traffic and the occasional hwy trip. Have not been disappointed

forget sound and refinement. Now performance is ok that said. Reliability? No way it can match 500 k miles J35 when maintained properly.

It's another era, V6 is Luxury now. Keep your V6 6 coupe tight...

I'm sure the 2.0 turbo will be way faster on a track (if they finally drop some decent brakes and tyres...) but every day driving, V6 rules..

hoodlum
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 17:47
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I'd still prefer the V6.

http://www.autoblog.com/2017/06/09/2018-honda-accord-powertrain-prototype-first-drive-review/

"These are the situations where the Accord's 2.0, just like all of the other motors of its ilk, kind of fall short. Tuned for fuel economy, as soon as you start a steady-state cruise, the transmissions leap to the highest gear possible and the engines try to use that turbo as little as possible. Prod it for a little extra momentum and you're met with a bit of a lag as the 10-speed starts dropping to find the right gear followed by a little bit more of a wait while the turbo spools up.

While these situations can seem a little annoying, there are two very real rubs to this behavior: The first is that as soon as you want to use the power, those low-load EPA fuel economy numbers get burned up and dumped right over the turbine. Second is that, after experiencing this a few times, confidence in the powertrain declines. If you need to accelerate to catch a gap in traffic or get out of a jam where it may be too late to brake, the last thing you want is noticeable, two-step delay."

lexusgs
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 17:48
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PoweredbyHondaX wrote:
it will probably handle way better with the lighter engine...and feel more dynamic. i think its gonna be the best accord ever.


The J series is already small and light, most turbo engines are not exactly light and not everything in a family sedan is about handling, it is also the way it drives, accelerates, longevity, smoothness, sound, etc which will be compromises with this new econo car engine replacing a nice V6.

skapig
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 18:02
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hoodlum wrote:
I'd still prefer the V6.

"These are the situations where the Accord's 2.0, just like all of the other motors of its ilk, kind of fall short. Tuned for fuel economy, as soon as you start a steady-state cruise, the transmissions leap to the highest gear possible and the engines try to use that turbo as little as possible. Prod it for a little extra momentum and you're met with a bit of a lag as the 10-speed starts dropping to find the right gear followed by a little bit more of a wait while the turbo spools up.



I wonder how much of the delay will be mitigated by the 6MT option.

CB77
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 18:41
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CB77 wrote:

Having driven Accords for 41 years, and having owned every generation of this car, I am saddened and concerned over these changes. I switched over the the V6 option when it first became available some 23 years ago...and I do not want to go back to a 4-cylinder. I don't care how many bobweights, balance shafts, trick motor mounts and how much other electronic trickery you use...you will never get that wonderful, silky, luxurious feeling and sound of a V6 with a 4.

I also do not believe they will be able to get the longevity out of this engine that we have come to expect...and its complexity will be a real challenge to the dealerships' service departments, many of whom are just barely keeping up now.

I hate to think of ending my string of Accord ownership, and I will try to keep an open mind until I see and drive one...but I am highly skeptical.





Car & Driver's take...

Driving enthusiasts, including all of us here at C/D, can cheer the availability of a manual. But we’re more conflicted about the retiring of the V-6, an engine that we’ve said positively shames the turbo 2.0-liter four in the Mercedes-Benz E-class—a much more expensive car.



CB77
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 18:48
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I suppose I am dating myself...being resistant to change. And I can understand how some (many?) of you like the idea of getting that heavy lump of a V6 out of the nose of the car for better handling...but I have grown so accustomed to that V6 silkiness, that it will be hard to give up.

You may be right, it may be a lot more fun to drive. Perhaps the Accord had evolved into an "old man's car". This should certainly reverse this trend. Guess the "old men" will have to upgrade (?) to a TLX, to maintain a V6. Of course there is still the Beak...


DCR
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 18:49
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MGP999 wrote:
DCR wrote:
Farewell indeed.

No farewell. Should be hello to the future. If you have read the first impression articles it shows an improvement in performance and efficiency while still giving you the option of a manual transmission with a potentially best in class 10 spd trans. I don't understand your dismay, you get one of two things you want with the other being replaced by something potentially better.



Suddenly you are an expert on what I want.

rocky
Profile for rocky
Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 18:53
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I predict a rush for Accord Coupes with 6 cylinders and 6MT
CB77
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 18:54
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rocky wrote:
I predict a rush for Accord Coupes with 6 cylinders and 6MT


Yeah...I am thinking the same thing...


vh2k
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 19:03
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Sad Honda is dropping the V6 from the Accord.

It could be worse. We could be lifelong fans of the Mercedes E-Class have to deal with a 4-cylinder engine powering their $50-70K midsize luxury sedan.

Imagine plunking down $60,000 for an E-Class powered by a 2.0 litre 4-cyl engine!!!

HDNBenjamin
Profile for HDNBenjamin
Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 19:05
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why not test drive one before making a final decision? maybe you will like it!
Hondarulez
Profile for Hondarulez
Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 19:57
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I can definitely understand the disappointment of losing the V6. On the other hand, I also think a test drive is needed first before drawing any conclusions.
Fredsvt
Profile for Fredsvt
Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 19:57
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I applaud the manuals, thankfully.

I'm not sure though about only I4 engines.

I love my '04 6-6 for it's smoothness, quietness and in reality, better fuel mileage than the I4 of it's generation.

Highway mileage at an average of 74 mph, back in the day on real gasoline (not E garbage) was 38 mpg.

Reading Honda's "mission statement" is somewhat disappointing, I could care less about electric, unless fuel cell, or self driving anything. How about excitement? Where's a real S2000 successor? Not some low rev turbo thing.


Mr.Anderson
Profile for Mr.Anderson
Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 21:51
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Not to disrespect what you enjoy and want, but I feel this is just another necessary evolutionary step. I'm sure people lamented the demise of the V8 family sedan that ruled decades past. But modern V6's can outperform even performance V8's from the 80's.

Now turbo 4's can 'reliably' displace a V6's capabilities with better efficiency, next it will be something else (like electric cars).

Honda has always been very conservative and the last to take risks and make big switches. They had Turbo cars in Japan in the early 80's, then waay later the RDX here. But only now do they go mainstream with turbo tech. It must be bulletproof.

99SI
Profile for 99SI
Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 22:07
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CB77 wrote:

Having driven Accords for 41 years, and having owned every generation of this car, I am saddened and concerned over these changes. I switched over the the V6 option when it first became available some 23 years ago...and I do not want to go back to a 4-cylinder. I don't care how many bobweights, balance shafts, trick motor mounts and how much other electronic trickery you use...you will never get that wonderful, silky, luxurious feeling and sound of a V6 with a 4.

I also do not believe they will be able to get the longevity out of this engine that we have come to expect...and its complexity will be a real challenge to the dealerships' service departments, many of whom are just barely keeping up now.

I hate to think of ending my string of Accord ownership, and I will try to keep an open mind until I see and drive one...but I am highly skeptical.



I would go back in a heartbeat. Give me a new version of a 1993 Accord with a 4cyl any day.

HondaForever
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 22:46
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PoweredbyHondaX wrote:
it will probably handle way better with the lighter engine...and feel more dynamic. i think its gonna be the best accord ever.

I switched from a 4 cyl '06 Accord 5MT to a 2012 Acura TL V6. For reasons I don't need to go into here, I ended up back driving the Accord. I preferred its handling by far to the nose heavy Acura.

Looking forward to the new 2.0T Accord, especially if I can get a higher trim with the 6 spd.

can_accord
Profile for can_accord
Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-09-2017 23:43
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No more v6 i'm coming Toyota:-) i will have a camry instead of an accord
Bye bye Honda and i will not be alone .

It's probably the same brillant team that choose to put the 1.5 in the SI Bravo Honda :-( Great marketing!

I'm pissed off....

amagbanua
Profile for amagbanua
Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-10-2017 01:27
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MGP999 wrote:
DCR wrote:
Farewell indeed.

No farewell. Should be hello to the future. If you have read the first impression articles it shows an improvement in performance and efficiency while still giving you the option of a manual transmission with a potentially best in class 10 spd trans. I don't understand your dismay, you get one of two things you want with the other being replaced by something potentially better.


I've already driven enough 328i/330i/528i/530i's to know that a boosted 4 will never have the smoothness and refinement in a 6 cyl no matter what the cost and I don't think Honda's 2.0t can exceed BMW N20/B48 engines...
Meanwhile my 2017 Touring's V6 is much more responsive and just about as quick as those 4 banger cars...
Who cares about 1-2 real world MPG...

TI-99/4a
Profile for TI-99/4a
Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-10-2017 07:50
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No coupe? No V6? :( I should have never sold my 2011.

There's a lot of discussion here trying to coerce me to "embrace the future". I'm 35 and just about every car I've owned has had at least a V6. There have been a couple 4s in there too. I don't care how you turbocharge or tweak a 4, the feel (in addition to the NVH) is totally different. I'll give the new gen a test drive but in all likelyhood I'll have to pass.

An example: Ford's F-150. The Ecoboost 6 is a better performer in the test reports vs the natural 5.0 V8. The 8 however had a totally natural feel and balance to the power. The turbo 6? You could feel the lag, and in terms of highway passing, I was far more confident with the 8. I'm glad Ford continues to offer the choice. On a high volume car, the cost of doing so is fairly marginal. I think Honda fears the 6 would actually outsell the 2.0T!

Long story short? I'm a V6 customer and always will be. Even if it means changing manufacturers for my next ride. I hear the Ford Fusion Sport with the 6 is pretty amazing!

A77X
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-10-2017 11:01
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Still a bit surprised about a 6 speed 2.0T. Pleasantly surprised. I guess a result of the coupe being dropped. Still wonder about how all the safety nannies will be mated to manuals but hey in Canada at least the sport touring hatch manual gets most of them.

One thing...this is all a nonsense fuel economy wise. The ten speed and turbo thing. First the transmission....I went from a manual tsx, undergeared and "only" 6 of them to an 8 speed auto TLX with better aero and direct injection. Over 40000 kms in both....and no difference in mileage. None. Admitedly excellent in both but more gears do not mean better mpg. The only benefits are potentially quieter cruising...and the TLX is way quieter, and better hill climbing - there's always a right gear available. The downsides are delayed engine braking as multiple shifts are needed and, the way it's programmed, too much readiness on the flat to choose a super high ratio. Which dulls the whole experience.

And as far as turbos are concerned they just don't get the mileage when all the torque is used. And the torque is nice...so you use it. I have rented some and all disappointed mileage wise. The 1.5T is a bit of an exception but its a very small engine and has other issues. I am hoping the 2.0T, being a K series will at least sound decent. I am a bit perplexed about how few journos comment on the 1.5s uncouthness. Quite a few customers mentioned it on test drives. Not just me. Both Civic and CRV.

TI-99/4a
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-10-2017 12:20
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And that's another thing. No coupe?! Really?! Somehow they finagle a coupe hatchback and sedan Civic. But the bigger margin equal volume Accord they can only manage a sedan. This is all very disappointing so far. Hoping it's a slow rollout like the civic was.
wanga
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-10-2017 16:38
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the good news is the manual transmission and the absence of the zf 9spd tranny. It will be nice if they manufacture an coupe 3.0 v6 turbo 6 spd manual,awd .
Potenza
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-10-2017 18:25
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A77X wrote:
One thing...this is all a nonsense fuel economy wise. The ten speed and turbo thing. First the transmission....I went from a manual tsx, undergeared and "only" 6 of them to an 8 speed auto TLX with better aero and direct injection. Over 40000 kms in both....and no difference in mileage. None. Admitedly excellent in both but more gears do not mean better mpg. The only benefits are potentially quieter cruising...and the TLX is way quieter, and better hill climbing - there's always a right gear available.

Half of the efforts are necessary just to offset everything that keeps getting added. Bigger and heavier cars, larger wheels and tires, more horsepower.

I'd say if you're getting the same economy in an automatic TLX as a manual TSX, that means the efficiency efforts worked, IMO.

owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-10-2017 19:36
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Potenza wrote:
A77X wrote:
One thing...this is all a nonsense fuel economy wise. The ten speed and turbo thing. First the transmission....I went from a manual tsx, undergeared and "only" 6 of them to an 8 speed auto TLX with better aero and direct injection. Over 40000 kms in both....and no difference in mileage. None. Admitedly excellent in both but more gears do not mean better mpg. The only benefits are potentially quieter cruising...and the TLX is way quieter, and better hill climbing - there's always a right gear available.

Half of the efforts are necessary just to offset everything that keeps getting added. Bigger and heavier cars, larger wheels and tires, more horsepower.

I'd say if you're getting the same economy in an automatic TLX as a manual TSX, that means the efficiency efforts worked, IMO.



Except that a manual TSX and 8AT TLX aren't that far apart on weight or size...

Gfn8r
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Re: Farewell, old friend... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 06-10-2017 19:38
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wanga wrote:
the good news is the manual transmission and the absence of the zf 9spd tranny. It will be nice if they manufacture an coupe 3.0 v6 turbo 6 spd manual,awd .


I have a feeling that within the next few years, after a couple more models cycle at the "Smart Luxury" S/CUVMOUSE Haus of Honda, anything possessing more than four cylinders and something not requiring a climb into the driver's seat (or something with an expensive KERS device on-board) will be mutually exclusive!

That ship has sailed, and the captain will go hara-kiri with it!

Gotta follow the lemmings..CROWD, dontcha-know!


 
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