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TOV Forums > ILX > > Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...

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Bovicious
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ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 02:35
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I just spoke with an Acura district sales manager today and he said they are working on getting the new ilx mmc in awd by the end of 2015. He stated it would also be coming on the 4 cyl TLX as well. He didn't get into specifics on which awd system it would be but mentioned Acura has started the wheels in motion to offer awd on all their vehicles. If I hear any more news ill be sure to keep everyone updated...
sa3eedi
Profile for sa3eedi
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 08:50
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If it's any other system but sh-awd, then don't even bother
Brutus
Profile for Brutus
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 09:10
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oh man I might be forced to trade in my TLX early if this is the case for the TLX 4CYL AWD.


BG
Profile for BG
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 09:22
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sa3eedi wrote:
If it's any other system but sh-awd, then don't even bother


Is there room for sh-awd, if so, where, then also why can't we have a Civic with sh-awd?

Maybe e-shawd, as there's no need for transfer box, etc, just 2 electric motors in the back and a battery from the ilx hybrid archive??

Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 13:37
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BG wrote:
sa3eedi wrote:
If it's any other system but sh-awd, then don't even bother


Is there room for sh-awd, if so, where, then also why can't we have a Civic with sh-awd?

Maybe e-shawd, as there's no need for transfer box, etc, just 2 electric motors in the back and a battery from the ilx hybrid archive??


I'm sure they'd need a bigger battery, but IMO, this is the route to pursue.

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 14:19
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sa3eedi wrote:
If it's any other system but sh-awd, then don't even bother

This.

gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 14:24
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Brutus wrote:
oh man I might be forced to trade in my TLX early if this is the case for the TLX 4CYL AWD.



Unless there's a new engine with more torque mated to it you have the right car now, brother. It will be a dog otherwise, added weight and driveline losses...

iutodd
Profile for iutodd
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 14:41
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gofast182 wrote:
Brutus wrote:
oh man I might be forced to trade in my TLX early if this is the case for the TLX 4CYL AWD.



Unless there's a new engine with more torque mated to it you have the right car now, brother. It will be a dog otherwise, added weight and driveline losses...



The SHAWD TLX weighs 152 lbs more than the PAWS TLX. It'd be like adding a high schooler to the back seat.

CivicB18
Profile for CivicB18
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 15:11
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BG wrote:
sa3eedi wrote:
If it's any other system but sh-awd, then don't even bother


Is there room for sh-awd, if so, where, then also why can't we have a Civic with sh-awd?

Maybe e-shawd, as there's no need for transfer box, etc, just 2 electric motors in the back and a battery from the ilx hybrid archive??




Because SH-AWD needs to remain an Acura exclusive technology.

Osaka2002
Profile for Osaka2002
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 15:20
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CivicB18 wrote:
BG wrote:
sa3eedi wrote:
If it's any other system but sh-awd, then don't even bother


Is there room for sh-awd, if so, where, then also why can't we have a Civic with sh-awd?

Maybe e-shawd, as there's no need for transfer box, etc, just 2 electric motors in the back and a battery from the ilx hybrid archive??




Because SH-AWD needs to remain an Acura exclusive technology.



This. It's already hard enough for Acura to beat back statements of "Oh, it's just a fancy Accord/Civic/CR-V/etc." given what they have to work with. Adding SH-AWD to Honda products would make that even harder. This is why the Accord will NEVER have an awd version to directly compete with the likes of the Subaru Legacy.

CivicB18
Profile for CivicB18
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 15:31
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Osaka2002 wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
BG wrote:
sa3eedi wrote:
If it's any other system but sh-awd, then don't even bother


Is there room for sh-awd, if so, where, then also why can't we have a Civic with sh-awd?

Maybe e-shawd, as there's no need for transfer box, etc, just 2 electric motors in the back and a battery from the ilx hybrid archive??




Because SH-AWD needs to remain an Acura exclusive technology.



This. It's already hard enough for Acura to beat back statements of "Oh, it's just a fancy Accord/Civic/CR-V/etc." given what they have to work with. Adding SH-AWD to Honda products would make that even harder. This is why the Accord will NEVER have an awd version to directly compete with the likes of the Subaru Legacy.



Actually it is possible for Honda to offer AWD on the Civic or the Accord using the RealTime AWD system. I just don't see a huge demand for those vehicles however.

CivicB18
Profile for CivicB18
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 15:33
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I don't know why this is a surprise as Acura stated earlier this year that "all Acura's will have SH-AWD by model year 2016."


NoBrainer
Profile for NoBrainer
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 15:54
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Hmmmm who said it is "model year" 2016???
BG
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Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 16:33
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Osaka2002 wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
BG wrote:
sa3eedi wrote:
If it's any other system but sh-awd, then don't even bother


Is there room for sh-awd, if so, where, then also why can't we have a Civic with sh-awd?

Maybe e-shawd, as there's no need for transfer box, etc, just 2 electric motors in the back and a battery from the ilx hybrid archive??




Because SH-AWD needs to remain an Acura exclusive technology.



This. It's already hard enough for Acura to beat back statements of "Oh, it's just a fancy Accord/Civic/CR-V/etc." given what they have to work with. Adding SH-AWD to Honda products would make that even harder. This is why the Accord will NEVER have an awd version to directly compete with the likes of the Subaru Legacy.



Ok, Merica can keeps it's Acurawd, but you guys are not the only people on this forum, never mind planet!!

Honda has had Shawd before, in the Legend and will have e-Shawd in the new Legend!!

How will you guys cope?? :/


Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 16:47
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CivicB18 wrote:
I don't know why this is a surprise as Acura stated earlier this year that "all Acura's will have SH-AWD by model year 2016."



Is this an official release or one of those things written that get repeated so often that it becomes 'fact'? First I remember seeing this was when corey striker at AZ mentioned it from a ride and drive event back around TLX (original) launch date.

CivicB18
Profile for CivicB18
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 18:14
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Colin wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
I don't know why this is a surprise as Acura stated earlier this year that "all Acura's will have SH-AWD by model year 2016."



Is this an official release or one of those things written that get repeated so often that it becomes 'fact'? First I remember seeing this was when corey striker at AZ mentioned it from a ride and drive event back around TLX (original) launch date.



That announcement was made when Acure stated they were going to have a similar AWD strategy similar to Subaru.

Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 18:49
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CivicB18 wrote:
Colin wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
I don't know why this is a surprise as Acura stated earlier this year that "all Acura's will have SH-AWD by model year 2016."



Is this an official release or one of those things written that get repeated so often that it becomes 'fact'? First I remember seeing this was when corey striker at AZ mentioned it from a ride and drive event back around TLX (original) launch date.



That announcement was made when Acure stated they were going to have a similar AWD strategy similar to Subaru.


Thanks for the reply, I suppose they mean to offer a combination of eSH-AWD, SH-AWD and 'the Realtime AWD' (for lack of a proper name for the RDX system).

Frankly, I'd love to see a eSH-AWD system for the smaller cars as BG mentioned. I think there's a lot of potential for a 'Lite' eSH-AWD that forgoes the front motor and used a pair of ~15-20hp (50 lbft) motors on the rear axle. With a medium sized battery, I bet they could keep the weight penalty similar to the new TLX system, and this would add power and efficiency.

NoBrainer
Profile for NoBrainer
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 19:35
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CivicB18 wrote:
Colin wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
I don't know why this is a surprise as Acura stated earlier this year that "all Acura's will have SH-AWD by model year 2016."



Is this an official release or one of those things written that get repeated so often that it becomes 'fact'? First I remember seeing this was when corey striker at AZ mentioned it from a ride and drive event back around TLX (original) launch date.



That announcement was made when Acure stated they were going to have a similar AWD strategy similar to Subaru.


Where??? It's not mentioned specifically (by model year 2016 etc) here. http://www.autonews.com/article/20141013/OEM03/310139958/acura-grabs-page-from-subarus-awd-playbook

Actually it's quite vague, like will be considered blah blah blah.

Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 19:57
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NoBrainer wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
Colin wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
I don't know why this is a surprise as Acura stated earlier this year that "all Acura's will have SH-AWD by model year 2016."



Is this an official release or one of those things written that get repeated so often that it becomes 'fact'? First I remember seeing this was when corey striker at AZ mentioned it from a ride and drive event back around TLX (original) launch date.



That announcement was made when Acure stated they were going to have a similar AWD strategy similar to Subaru.


Where??? It's not mentioned specifically (by model year 2016 etc) here. http://www.autonews.com/article/20141013/OEM03/310139958/acura-grabs-page-from-subarus-awd-playbook

Actually it's quite vague, like will be considered blah blah blah.


Indeed. The sub-headline is actually
"All-wheel drive could anchor revival strategy"

However, they have been cautious with definitive statements since the Tier 1 debacle so maybe 'could' really means 'will'.

JIRZLEE
Profile for JIRZLEE
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 20:07
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Colin wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
Colin wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
I don't know why this is a surprise as Acura stated earlier this year that "all Acura's will have SH-AWD by model year 2016."



Is this an official release or one of those things written that get repeated so often that it becomes 'fact'? First I remember seeing this was when corey striker at AZ mentioned it from a ride and drive event back around TLX (original) launch date.



That announcement was made when Acure stated they were going to have a similar AWD strategy similar to Subaru.


Thanks for the reply, I suppose they mean to offer a combination of eSH-AWD, SH-AWD and 'the Realtime AWD' (for lack of a proper name for the RDX system).

Frankly, I'd love to see a eSH-AWD system for the smaller cars as BG mentioned. I think there's a lot of potential for a 'Lite' eSH-AWD that forgoes the front motor and used a pair of ~15-20hp (50 lbft) motors on the rear axle. With a medium sized battery, I bet they could keep the weight penalty similar to the new TLX system, and this would add power and efficiency.



I like the idea of the eSH-AWD too. I don't know if regenerative braking would work as well without a front motor though.

Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-25-2014 20:30
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JIRZLEE wrote:
Colin wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
Colin wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
I don't know why this is a surprise as Acura stated earlier this year that "all Acura's will have SH-AWD by model year 2016."



Is this an official release or one of those things written that get repeated so often that it becomes 'fact'? First I remember seeing this was when corey striker at AZ mentioned it from a ride and drive event back around TLX (original) launch date.



That announcement was made when Acure stated they were going to have a similar AWD strategy similar to Subaru.


Thanks for the reply, I suppose they mean to offer a combination of eSH-AWD, SH-AWD and 'the Realtime AWD' (for lack of a proper name for the RDX system).

Frankly, I'd love to see a eSH-AWD system for the smaller cars as BG mentioned. I think there's a lot of potential for a 'Lite' eSH-AWD that forgoes the front motor and used a pair of ~15-20hp (50 lbft) motors on the rear axle. With a medium sized battery, I bet they could keep the weight penalty similar to the new TLX system, and this would add power and efficiency.



I like the idea of the eSH-AWD too. I don't know if regenerative braking would work as well without a front motor though.


I agree 1000% on this one and you're probably right. More power means more battery and thus more regeneration IMO the worst thing would be to come out with something too small and repeat the IMA failure (I actually like IMA in the CR-Z 6MT, by failure I mean market failure).

What if the 8DCT were modular enough that you could slip out the torque converter and replace it with a small motor/generator? They could then have a 4 cylinder application of the 3 motor hybrid to go with the bigger NSX/RLX system. They would simultaneously meet the "all have AWD", goal and improve economy and performance while showing their technical prowess. The final hurdle is price of course.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-26-2014 12:46
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Bovicious wrote:
I just spoke with an Acura district sales manager today and he said they are working on getting the new ilx mmc in awd by the end of 2015. He stated it would also be coming on the 4 cyl TLX as well. He didn't get into specifics on which awd system it would be but mentioned Acura has started the wheels in motion to offer awd on all their vehicles. If I hear any more news ill be sure to keep everyone updated...

Since the traction capabilities of fwd are already pretty good, and with the added weight and $ of awd, I wouldn't see any real pressing need for this in the ILX or I-4 TLX.

What is it that they say,
"If their lips are moving..."



gofast182
Profile for gofast182
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-26-2014 15:25
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superchg2 wrote:
Bovicious wrote:
I just spoke with an Acura district sales manager today and he said they are working on getting the new ilx mmc in awd by the end of 2015. He stated it would also be coming on the 4 cyl TLX as well. He didn't get into specifics on which awd system it would be but mentioned Acura has started the wheels in motion to offer awd on all their vehicles. If I hear any more news ill be sure to keep everyone updated...

Since the traction capabilities of fwd are already pretty good, and with the added weight and $ of awd, I wouldn't see any real pressing need for this in the ILX or I-4 TLX.

What is it that they say,
"If their lips are moving..."




Right, they'd basically be making Acura Subarus out of them, competent but not engaging. Add a turbo engine with the torque to motivate the AWD system and then you're talking...

Popeyes2k
Profile for Popeyes2k
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-27-2014 11:20
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gofast182 wrote:
Right, they'd basically be making Acura Subarus out of them, competent but not engaging. Add a turbo engine with the torque to motivate the AWD system and then you're talking...


.....and that is why the new CTR should be AWD

CivicB18
Profile for CivicB18
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-27-2014 12:08
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NoBrainer wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
Colin wrote:
CivicB18 wrote:
I don't know why this is a surprise as Acura stated earlier this year that "all Acura's will have SH-AWD by model year 2016."



Is this an official release or one of those things written that get repeated so often that it becomes 'fact'? First I remember seeing this was when corey striker at AZ mentioned it from a ride and drive event back around TLX (original) launch date.



That announcement was made when Acure stated they were going to have a similar AWD strategy similar to Subaru.


Where??? It's not mentioned specifically (by model year 2016 etc) here. http://www.autonews.com/article/20141013/OEM03/310139958/acura-grabs-page-from-subarus-awd-playbook

Actually it's quite vague, like will be considered blah blah blah.



I know I read it here. 2016 would be the model year that every Acura model would be available with SH-AWD. We know the MMC RDX will get it for 2016 and of course the current ILX rumor. It makes logical sense as the system has been redesigned to be less expensive, less complex, more compact, weigh less and be more responsive.

All the ILX's direct competitors off AWD. The CLA250 4Matic, Audi A3 2.0t Quattro and the upcoming FWD based BMW 1 Series xDrive.

George Knighton
Profile for George Knighton
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2014 08:36
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CivicB18 wrote:
All the ILX's direct competitors off AWD. The CLA250 4Matic, Audi A3 2.0t Quattro and the upcoming FWD based BMW 1 Series xDrive.


If these are the kinds of systems with which we expect lower priced models of the Honda line to compete, we should probably continue to point out that these systems are not the equivalent of SH-AWD.

This is just one stupid old man's opinion, but although Realtime is not as good as 4Matic and Quattro, 4Matic and Quattro are certainly not as good as SH-AWD.

The Audi Sport Differential option for Quattro is no longer available in most models, too, remember. Audi has stepped away from torque vectoring for most of its product line.

So. We have a decision to make.

Nick GravesX
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Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2014 11:39
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That's interesting - I'd only ever vaguely consider an Audi with TV.

I wonder if people just don't understand it?

Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2014 19:55
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Nick GravesX wrote:
I wonder if people just don't understand it?

VERY few understand it. IMO, why SH-AWD has failed to generate any positive buzz in the marketplace for Acura. I don't think it's about marketing, or the sales consultants ability to sell it (generally, I can't speak for others). I think that most customers simply don't see the need beyond the traditional all-weather benefits. And in warm climates, it's actually a negative if there is no choice (not that Acura is saying the FWD goes away).

sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-01-2014 23:52
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Colin wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
I wonder if people just don't understand it?

VERY few understand it. IMO, why SH-AWD has failed to generate any positive buzz in the marketplace for Acura. I don't think it's about marketing, or the sales consultants ability to sell it (generally, I can't speak for others). I think that most customers simply don't see the need beyond the traditional all-weather benefits. And in warm climates, it's actually a negative if there is no choice (not that Acura is saying the FWD goes away).



I think we should look at the problem this way - that SH-AWD is a fabulous system for a sports sedan, like what most of us on here would love. BUT Acura don't make a sports sedan, the SH-AWD TL was a sporty sedan, but it was too big and underpowered for it's size to be considered a real sports sedan [even though in testing it was almost a match for proper sports sedans from BMW and Audi].

Now, IF Acura were to build a pukka sports sedan, with around 400hp in a TLX with SH-AWD, then the motoring media would begin to understand what SH-AWD could do, and with that the general buying public could begin to understand. It's OK for me with 20 years racing experience to find out how to exploit it's benefits in the Legend, but with an extra 100hp, it would make it a lot more transparent to the "average" drivers? That's not to say SH-AWD is not beneficial for everyone, because it is a superb system, that every owner should have, if only from a safety aspect.

Shit, I've been banging on about this since...........

Nick, Audi's Torque Vectoring applications weren't a match for the Legend, at least in the S5 I tried. Not sure about very high speed bends, but in the cut and thrust of daily driving it still had too much understeer, as if there wasn't enough vectoring happening. Perhaps the Legends 5% overdrive facility really is the apex of the system?

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: ILX AWD coming sooner than you think...    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-02-2014 05:37
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sadlerau wrote:
Colin wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
I wonder if people just don't understand it?

VERY few understand it. IMO, why SH-AWD has failed to generate any positive buzz in the marketplace for Acura. I don't think it's about marketing, or the sales consultants ability to sell it (generally, I can't speak for others). I think that most customers simply don't see the need beyond the traditional all-weather benefits. And in warm climates, it's actually a negative if there is no choice (not that Acura is saying the FWD goes away).



I think we should look at the problem this way - that SH-AWD is a fabulous system for a sports sedan, like what most of us on here would love. BUT Acura don't make a sports sedan, the SH-AWD TL was a sporty sedan, but it was too big and underpowered for it's size to be considered a real sports sedan [even though in testing it was almost a match for proper sports sedans from BMW and Audi].

Now, IF Acura were to build a pukka sports sedan, with around 400hp in a TLX with SH-AWD, then the motoring media would begin to understand what SH-AWD could do, and with that the general buying public could begin to understand. It's OK for me with 20 years racing experience to find out how to exploit it's benefits in the Legend, but with an extra 100hp, it would make it a lot more transparent to the "average" drivers? That's not to say SH-AWD is not beneficial for everyone, because it is a superb system, that every owner should have, if only from a safety aspect.

Shit, I've been banging on about this since...........

Nick, Audi's Torque Vectoring applications weren't a match for the Legend, at least in the S5 I tried. Not sure about very high speed bends, but in the cut and thrust of daily driving it still had too much understeer, as if there wasn't enough vectoring happening. Perhaps the Legends 5% overdrive facility really is the apex of the system?



Yup - the combination of dullness in driving & poor reliability is why I said "almost"!

It's usually the case that others' interpretation is way inferior to Honda's. It was the same with 4WS.

Yet the others are usually better at persuading the great unwashed that they have 'technological innovation' or 'Leap ahead through Marketing' to paraphrase Audi.

The point about Hondura not applying these these innovations to a product where they can really shine (the supposed V8 coupe & sedan spring to mind, let alone the V10!) is very frustrating. It was also true with the 4WS - which has consistently been damned with faint praise, whereas it's oh so wonderful and innovative now Porsche uses similar to try to make the 911 a decent car. The fact that a 'Lude would piss all over a 328 BMW coupe on a wet or dry road with only 2.2 Litres was barely mentioned by the press. There's no second prize when it comes to journos' comparisons.

Frustration is the key - sometimes I get the urge to go over to Tokyo & thump some polite Japanese men to see if that makes them see sense...

However, when one sees that BMW is now getting the second prize in 4WS behind Porsche and Audi's diff is getting second prize behind Porsche's same diff and they are both quietly giving up, one begins to wonder what's going on with these hacks.


 
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