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  TOV News > New spy photos of 2015 Civic Type R on AutoExpress > > Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)?

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Midi_Amp
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Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2013 09:38
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Cannot press on this matter more seriously... Is it still uses torsion beam?! The Fit EV got a proper multilink rear suspension, and I really hope that this is a mule.

No matter how powerful the engine is, the botch torsion beam is just going to limit the capability of this car. I tried my best to notice a suspension arm from the photo, but got no luck... The final picture gave me hope though.

But hey! Turbo confirmed! *swoosh*.

TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2013 10:16
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I don't know why, but I thought the type-R would come when a new body style would be introduced...guess not.

But I agree, even with the newly improved Fit suspenders it would not be good enough...I feel someone who wanted this type of car would be ok sacrificing some rear cargo space for independent rear suspension (like the Fit EV owner)...

But who knows, maybe Honda would slip in some Civic Tourer adaptive rear suspenders...

King77
Profile for King77
Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2013 10:39
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Sometimes it could be difficult to combine a ride comfort and driving abilities with torsion beam suspension, but if you can concentrate solely on sports setup, there is no problem with TB.

Current sports cars have minimum body roll, so you cannot use the roll for wheel self steering and short suspension travel doesn´t require so wide range of optimal wheel position. Look at current best hot-hatch Renault Megane R.S. - excellent chassis and Nordschleife speed record holder - with TB setup. :-)

And on the other side - every independent suspension is combined with huge anti roll bar, so in fact, it is not an independent suspension anymore.

Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2013 10:44
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TurkMan71 wrote:
I don't know why, but I thought the type-R would come when a new body style would be introduced...guess not.

But I agree, even with the newly improved Fit suspenders it would not be good enough...I feel someone who wanted this type of car would be ok sacrificing some rear cargo space for independent rear suspension (like the Fit EV owner)...

But who knows, maybe Honda would slip in some Civic Tourer adaptive rear suspenders...



Rolled was passing on information that it would be part of the next-gen Civic. Which is fine, but it would be odd to start off with a low-volume version.

Also, the bold exhausts look pretty production-ready and in no way improvised.

It would be possible to add P-AWS to the TB - Renault did similar with the Laguna coupe.

King77
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Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2013 10:52
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Yeah, but P-AWS works with independent suspension, I am not sure Honda will develop it also for TB like Renault has only because of CTR. So - if CTR will have a DW/Multilink, there is a possibility of P-AWS. If it will have TB, no way.
Midi_Amp
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Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2013 11:27
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King77 wrote:
Sometimes it could be difficult to combine a ride comfort and driving abilities with torsion beam suspension, but if you can concentrate solely on sports setup, there is no problem with TB.

Current sports cars have minimum body roll, so you cannot use the roll for wheel self steering and short suspension travel doesn´t require so wide range of optimal wheel position. Look at current best hot-hatch Renault Megane R.S. - excellent chassis and Nordschleife speed record holder - with TB setup. :-)

And on the other side - every independent suspension is combined with huge anti roll bar, so in fact, it is not an independent suspension anymore.


I'm no way an expert in suspension, so do correct my assumption of TB and anti roll bar... Torsion beam is a rigid body, and a multilink suspension with anti roll bar still allows some flexing during high speed cornering. While cornering, a TB setup would break the g load from the outside wheels to the inside and reduce the tires contact patch hence reduced traction. A multilink suspension still allows for weight to be transferred to the outside cornering rear wheels (three wheeling in the extreme case) and provide good contact patch for the tires.

I think the EP3 Vs FN2 topgear comparison proved a good point.

King77
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Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2013 12:09
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You are right, of course, I mentioned a really small difference between this two setups. You can clearly see the potential of TB of Megane RS.

There was plenty of comparsions between FD2 & FN2, but JDM CTR and Euro CTR was uncomparable cars and, in fact, 8G Euro Civic chassis was´t good at all. Torsen LSD on CTR Championship Edition makes significant improvement, but i think still doesn´t show full potential of TB made by Honda. If you see a step forward between Euro Civic 8G and 9G, I am not afraid of CTR 9G with TB setup.

bigblue
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Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2013 16:34
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Rolled was passing on information that it would be part of the next-gen Civic. Which is fine, but it would be odd to start off with a low-volume version.
I think that was one of his speculative "what if ..." moments.

Nick GravesX
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Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2013 18:53
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King77 wrote:
Yeah, but P-AWS works with independent suspension, I am not sure Honda will develop it also for TB like Renault has only because of CTR. So - if CTR will have a DW/Multilink, there is a possibility of P-AWS. If it will have TB, no way.


One might hope so.

But it's nevertheless fairly straightforward in theory to mount some kingpins and (compact) P-AWS actuators onto the ends of a TB. It's very inelegant, and replacing multilink toe arms with actuators would be my preferred choice.

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2013 19:16
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To keep it in the price range HondaUK whats to sell it at,I don't think we will see a multi-link rear suspension.

They what to sell it at $25,000 Pounds base.

Nick GravesX
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Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-13-2013 19:22
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Well, it will probably be unbearable on the UK's roads if it's fast around the 'Ring.

Part of the reason I no longer understand such cars.

Midi_Amp
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Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-14-2013 01:12
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Nick GravesX wrote:
Well, it will probably be unbearable on the UK's roads if it's fast around the 'Ring.

Part of the reason I no longer understand such cars.


The ring time is a redeeming quality if I put the term correctly. Honda has been a mockery among the Euro hot hatch elites, and it's high time they display what engineering is, chronic back pain inducing or not.

Or, it's the active damper job to smooth out the ride (a bit) on the back roads... But seriously, how bad is UK's roads? Everywhere I read UK road this, UK road that, in the end it all means bad terrain or something. I've never been there, but the only "bad" roads I see from various source materials are stone pavements in residential area and that's it. The back country roads where the media test the cars seems okay to me, it even has more interesting turns.

P.S. I've tried very hard to discern a multilink suspension from the youtube video, but I don't think this car use it. Oh well, as long it can deliver its ring time promise, I'm going to shut my mouth.

Nick GravesX
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Re: Test mule or pre production (egad! Still torsion beam)? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 08-14-2013 05:40
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Midi_Amp wrote:
Nick GravesX wrote:
Well, it will probably be unbearable on the UK's roads if it's fast around the 'Ring.

Part of the reason I no longer understand such cars.


The ring time is a redeeming quality if I put the term correctly. Honda has been a mockery among the Euro hot hatch elites, and it's high time they display what engineering is, chronic back pain inducing or not.

Or, it's the active damper job to smooth out the ride (a bit) on the back roads... But seriously, how bad is UK's roads? Everywhere I read UK road this, UK road that, in the end it all means bad terrain or something. I've never been there, but the only "bad" roads I see from various source materials are stone pavements in residential area and that's it. The back country roads where the media test the cars seems okay to me, it even has more interesting turns.

P.S. I've tried very hard to discern a multilink suspension from the youtube video, but I don't think this car use it. Oh well, as long it can deliver its ring time promise, I'm going to shut my mouth.



We have the densest population (double entendre intended) in EU and the least invested into the road network per capita.

There is a reason mfrs test here - or build replicas of the yUK's roads in their own facilities. There is a lot of variance in surfacing materials, which results in horrendous tyre noise, bump-thump, etc.

Local gov't money gets spent on patching instead of proper re-surfacing. There has to be some sort of back-hander situation going on, because eny fule no it's a waste of money and is not logical. But our gov't has always hated cars, since we made a man with a flag walk in front of them.

But wasting taxpayers' money is what every gov't does. Ours just does it better than most.




 
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