bigblue
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Some good pictures on autoblog.com
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Colin
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A77 wrote:
a euro civic based hatch with IRS, a 1.6 140hp motor and IMA would meet Acura "advance' criteria as well as offering a distinctive appearance and sufficient differentiation from Civics of the world. The motor would be very high revving to get its 140hp but plenty of torque with IMA. But all sounds too high cost to me.
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Wouldn't it be probable that an IRS and IMA battery pack are not possible? I thought it was the reason the HCH doesn't have a folding rear seat? IMO a hatchback would have to have a folding seat, so the IMA would have to go under the spare tire. If so, I'm guessing no IRS unless there's a super high cargo floor.
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dashline79
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Can sort of eek out a little of the dash. Wonder if it's canted towards the driver as the USDM civic is. Wondering to see what it looks like, wouldn't be shocked if it's more classy looking though. Euro cars mostly always seem to be more on the stylish side.
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Midi_Amp
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dashline79 wrote:
Can sort of eek out a little of the dash. Wonder if it's canted towards the driver as the USDM civic is. Wondering to see what it looks like, wouldn't be shocked if it's more classy looking though. Euro cars mostly always seem to be more on the stylish side.
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Have you seen the Autoblog page? You can enlarge the picture to see the much clearer dash... And to me it looks like Honda ditching the multiplex, replacing it with traditional 3 pod gauges. From the front, the main pod gauge seems like it's canted towards the driver and there's no frontal dash bulge like on the USDM Civic, so the multiplex is gone as far as I can see.
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Fan Koni
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Those pictures have been done up some.
The brake calipers are on the front then on the back. Looks like they copied the front to the back wheel and then the back wheel to the front.
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magueto
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Fan Koni wrote:
Those pictures have been done up some.
The brake calipers are on the front then on the back. Looks like they copied the front to the back wheel and then the back wheel to the front.
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Looks more than there is a tree branch in the middle of the rear wheel and the copy the front wheel at the front of the car, look the position of the brake caliper, black tape and the relative position of wheel against the position or direction of the car in both wheel the position area exactly the same, looks like is has a 4WS.
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bigblue
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Yes, I think you're right about that (and also look at the strange shape of the out of focus tree branch). All a bit silly, they should have left it un-photoshopped because now I worry about whether anything else was "enhanced". Anyway, let's assume nothing else was changed, what do you think of the overall shape ? I think it looks quite promising, and I hope a Type-R will be part of the range (and I have no idea what engine they'd put in that).
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bigblue
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(by the way, if it's the same car it's also mysteriously swapped from right-hand drive to left-hand drive for the head-on shots !).
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Fan Koni
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...and has or had not a glass roof.
Stupid Auto Blog. Any way the car still looks promising and it should if the new Euro civic wants to win design awards again.
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Nick GravesX
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bigblue wrote:
(by the way, if it's the same car it's also mysteriously swapped from right-hand drive to left-hand drive for the head-on shots !).
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No; that's four-seat steering. It's Honda's latest innovation.
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A77
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Nick Graves wrote:
bigblue wrote:
(by the way, if it's the same car it's also mysteriously swapped from right-hand drive to left-hand drive for the head-on shots !).
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No; that's four-seat steering. It's Honda's latest innovation.
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Honda is just copying BMW, yet again....
"A full-page BMW car advertisement was run .....explaining their new car for driving between Great Britain and the Continent. It was both left and right hand drive, had pedals on both driver's and passenger's side, had a detachable steering wheel which could go either side and a full set of instruments on each side, the unused one being covered by a lovely walnut panel."
http://tinyurl.com/3btsjup
I am sure you'll remember Nick....
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Nick GravesX
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A77 wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
bigblue wrote:
(by the way, if it's the same car it's also mysteriously swapped from right-hand drive to left-hand drive for the head-on shots !).
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No; that's four-seat steering. It's Honda's latest innovation.
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Honda is just copying BMW, yet again....
"A full-page BMW car advertisement was run .....explaining their new car for driving between Great Britain and the Continent. It was both left and right hand drive, had pedals on both driver's and passenger's side, had a detachable steering wheel which could go either side and a full set of instruments on each side, the unused one being covered by a lovely walnut panel."
http://tinyurl.com/3btsjup
I am sure you'll remember Nick....
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Indeed. Then there was that one later where they announced they'd poached Chris Bangle from FIAT.
Oh, hang on...
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Apparitions
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Midi_Amp wrote:
dashline79 wrote:
Can sort of eek out a little of the dash. Wonder if it's canted towards the driver as the USDM civic is. Wondering to see what it looks like, wouldn't be shocked if it's more classy looking though. Euro cars mostly always seem to be more on the stylish side.
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Have you seen the Autoblog page? You can enlarge the picture to see the much clearer dash... And to me it looks like Honda ditching the multiplex, replacing it with traditional 3 pod gauges. From the front, the main pod gauge seems like it's canted towards the driver and there's no frontal dash bulge like on the USDM Civic, so the multiplex is gone as far as I can see.
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Indeed. Maybe they are doing to do something similar to the CR-Z, gauge-wise.
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Nehring
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This will make a fine little Acura.
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Powered by Honda
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i see the side mirror is where the 8th gen usd civic's is. very well done.
gratz to europe for getting a decent honda.
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bigblue
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Short articles on the new Civic.
[ autocar ]. "Honda is promising a “two generation” step in ride quality ... Honda has retained the torsion beam rear suspension set-up for the new car ... is to finally get the small-capacity diesel it desperately needs in the diesel-orientated family hatchback segment. Honda is currently developing a 1.6-litre turbodiesel engine in Japan. Petrol engines are expected to include new, more powerful and economical versions of today’s 1.4 and 1.8 units"
[ car magazine ] has some photos of the disguised test car and some more info [ here ] "Expect a series of mini announcements before we see the car for real on 13 September at the 2011 Frankfurt motor show. The new, ninth-generation Honda Civic goes on UK sale in spring 2012."
Theres also a link to a short [ video ] where engineers discuss the aim of the chassis (and mention the new fluid-filled suspension bushings), as well as showing some images of the test car in action.
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TurkMan71
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Thanks for the links, not much in the way of new visual info, but the video and info on the rear suspension is very interesting (also interesting from a Honda PR perspective, very open)....
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Midi_Amp
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bigblue wrote:
Short articles on the new Civic.
[ autocar ]. "Honda is promising a “two generation” step in ride quality ... Honda has retained the torsion beam rear suspension set-up for the new car ... is to finally get the small-capacity diesel it desperately needs in the diesel-orientated family hatchback segment. Honda is currently developing a 1.6-litre turbodiesel engine in Japan. Petrol engines are expected to include new, more powerful and economical versions of today’s 1.4 and 1.8 units"
[ car magazine ] has some photos of the disguised test car and some more info [ here ] "Expect a series of mini announcements before we see the car for real on 13 September at the 2011 Frankfurt motor show. The new, ninth-generation Honda Civic goes on UK sale in spring 2012."
Theres also a link to a short [ video ] where engineers discuss the aim of the chassis (and mention the new fluid-filled suspension bushings), as well as showing some images of the test car in action.
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Nice info bigblue, I was chuckling a little bit about the two generations in ride quality remarks, since torsion beam is only good for one thing or the other thing, but then I read about the fluid filled suspension bushing. I don't know about fluid filled suspension bushing, and a quick search I found leaky suspension on 2003 Subaru Forester and it is used on some BMW sedans. Good to know Honda doing something "interesting" and hoping Honda engineers brings something new to the suspension design.
Interesting thing about the development video... The Civic engineers are from Japan and Germany, and the ride focus is on country side European roads... I wonder what are the composition of Civic engineers from Japan and US for the USDM Civic and what sort of benchmark did they use to finalized the design.
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A77
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Clear indication that the torsion beam is there for space efficiency reasons (not to save a few pennies). Hopefully it'll work better than the Elantra's which is clearly inferior to the US Civic.
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CVCC1974
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Maybe I'm an old-schooler, but I just don't believe torsion beam can match the multi-link suspension setup...
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bigblue
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It may not be the purest (or even the absolute best) set-up, but can't it be pretty effective ? I have a vague feeling that some of the most celebrated hot-hatches use a non independent set-up, maybe the Peugeot 205 GTi, RenaultSport Clios ? Can't remember for sure at themoment, will have to look it up. Maybe someone can teach us all about suspension design :-)
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TurkMan71
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What will this mean for the suspension of the next Fit/Jazz and CR-Z (if there is one)?
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FiSH-Chan
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CVCC1974 wrote:
Maybe I'm an old-schooler, but I just don't believe torsion beam can match the multi-link suspension setup...
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I agree with this, notice that the guy said, "balance" between handling and ride. I doubt that they will work magic carpet ride and raiload handling with their torsion beam and beat multi-link, I think they just came up with a very very good torsion beam.
My City has a torsion beam and ride is quite choppy at the back, certainly not as good as my Civic's, but the City is more fun since you can flick it about while accelerating hard at lower speeds and the tail can step out sometimes (still on stock tires), really can't do this with the Civic at all..
Since it's located at the rear I'm not bothered by the ride quality since I'll be doing the driving when it comes to using the car, and the driver doesn't feel this choppiness.
Interested in the fluid filled bushings. Is it something like that fluid filled engine mounts?
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danielgr
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CVCC1974 wrote:
Maybe I'm an old-schooler, but I just don't believe torsion beam can match the multi-link suspension setup...
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They are not saying they are going to beat Accord's 5link independent suspension.
They are saying they did about twice as much work on it as they would normally do over a model change to improve ride as much as possible. The geometry though, is a given, and if you consider the car's price (vs. indep suspension US Civic) you can tell it's not about the money, but about package.
Obviously it'd be nice to have packaging efficiency of torsion beam with multi-link indep rear susp, but that ain't possible. For large sedans/vans it may not be an issue, but for EU/JP small cars for sure I rather have the rear beam on normal cars.
Of notice here is that Honda says the new Civic will be available exclusively as a 5door; might be the end of the CTR, though it may also be that Honda will being those in a second stage.
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TurkMan71
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danielgr wrote:
CVCC1974 wrote:
Maybe I'm an old-schooler, but I just don't believe torsion beam can match the multi-link suspension setup...
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They are saying they did about twice as much work on it as they would normally do over a model change to improve ride as much as possible.
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Maybe just semantics or wording but I don't get the same read from:
'[ autocar ]. "Honda is promising a “two generation” step in ride quality ... Honda has retained the torsion beam rear suspension set-up for the new car ... '
It sounds like they are saying the ride has improved considerably- as in an improvement from stone age to modern, not that they worked twice as hard. And in that case, I hope they live up to it.
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P54
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TurkMan71 wrote:
danielgr wrote:
CVCC1974 wrote:
Maybe I'm an old-schooler, but I just don't believe torsion beam can match the multi-link suspension setup...
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They are saying they did about twice as much work on it as they would normally do over a model change to improve ride as much as possible.
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Maybe just semantics or wording but I don't get the same read from:
'[ autocar ]. "Honda is promising a “two generation” step in ride quality ... Honda has retained the torsion beam rear suspension set-up for the new car ... '
It sounds like they are saying the ride has improved considerably- as in an improvement from stone age to modern, not that they worked twice as hard. And in that case, I hope they live up to it.
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I perceive that both of you mean the same thing, just use different wording.
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Nick GravesX
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TurkMan71 wrote:
danielgr wrote:
CVCC1974 wrote:
Maybe I'm an old-schooler, but I just don't believe torsion beam can match the multi-link suspension setup...
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They are saying they did about twice as much work on it as they would normally do over a model change to improve ride as much as possible.
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Maybe just semantics or wording but I don't get the same read from:
'[ autocar ]. "Honda is promising a “two generation” step in ride quality ... Honda has retained the torsion beam rear suspension set-up for the new car ... '
It sounds like they are saying the ride has improved considerably- as in an improvement from stone age to modern, not that they worked twice as hard. And in that case, I hope they live up to it.
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It was explained in the video; Honda's usual minor generational increment has been changed into a major generational increment; like the suspension one might have expected on the 10G not the 9G!
First ugly transverse ridge the car hits, it will still bunny-hop. It just won't crash so loudly when it lands.
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bigblue
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Still from the video :
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TurkMan71
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Good catch...I assumed that was the current models interior, but a side by side comparison shows some small but noticeable differences - thx for posting.
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TurkMan71
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Ignore most of this chop but I think the front and rear shoulder line that arches both front and rear wheels may be close to what we might really get...plus the green house looks close to what we see in the spy shots.
Don't think the rocker panel is correct or the light catcher right above it. And the front is pretty clearly a chop of the Civic 4dr Si Concept...
In the rear, I'm not so sure the lights are at all accurate and I'm pretty sure Honda will stick with two piece glass hatch...but it's fun just to see chops, right?
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