CVCC1974
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http://www.wheels24.co.za/Galleries/Image/Honda/Honda%20Civic%202012%20%28Spy%29
They removed the body cladding & left just some tapes on the body. We could see the body lines now. I think I like this better than the 8th gen Euro 5dr hatch, at least it looks more proportional.
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Fan Koni
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It seems the rear window and hatch were streched abit and the stance wider & maybe lower.
I hope it is based on the NA Civic and not on the Jazz.
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Blue_Sky_surfer
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Fan Koni wrote:
It seems the rear window and hatch were streched abit and the stance wider & maybe lower.
I hope it is based on the NA Civic and not on the Jazz.
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I have similar thoughts after seeing the spy shot:
- I have been thinking the EUDM Civic would launch without delay if it is still going to based on Fit/Jazz;
- with the USDM Civic wb decreased (which by itself seems puzzling - why Honda think it's necessary to shorten the wb, is it absolutely necessary in order to decrease weight? I guess it's a significant engineering chnange to shorten the wb but increase interior room at the same time, hard points may have changed -> is Honda thinking about to realign the EUDM Civic's platform?)
- and EUDM Civic delayed for almost a year (is it because of powertrain/platform?),
- there's hope that something will happen.
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RussV
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Could this be the new small Acura?
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Midi_Amp
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Blue_Sky_surfer wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
It seems the rear window and hatch were streched abit and the stance wider & maybe lower.
I hope it is based on the NA Civic and not on the Jazz.
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I have similar thoughts after seeing the spy shot:
- I have been thinking the EUDM Civic would launch without delay if it is still going to based on Fit/Jazz;
- with the USDM Civic wb decreased (which by itself seems puzzling - why Honda think it's necessary to shorten the wb, is it absolutely necessary in order to decrease weight? I guess it's a significant engineering chnange to shorten the wb but increase interior room at the same time, hard points may have changed -> is Honda thinking about to realign the EUDM Civic's platform?)
- and EUDM Civic delayed for almost a year (is it because of powertrain/platform?),
- there's hope that something will happen.
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Judging from the spy shot extended rear glass and C-pillar, Honda should have more freedom on the chassis side since the outgoing model compact rear section dictates the use of a compact suspension. However, what happens to the magic seat? Isn't the magic seat relies on the use of torsion beam suspension setup to allow such cavernous boot but still maintain low center of gravity.
My take on why Honda extend the model year is just a cost cutting measure. Even if they did go back to change something, it's something much simpler, like ECU remapping. Perhaps the mandatory inclusion of the "eco" mode.
On another note, BTCC first round is out and Matt Neal's Civic Euro manages a 3rd spot after a great pole. Let's hope Honda improves the car in the coming race calendar.
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Blue_Sky_surfer
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Honda has moved designers from Japan to its British facility at Swindon, to ensure the reveal of the next Civic goes ahead as planned. .... http://carandvannews.co.uk/2011/04/09/honda-acts-to-protect-civic-reveal/
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FiSH-Chan
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Midi_Amp wrote:
However, what happens to the magic seat? Isn't the magic seat relies on the use of torsion beam suspension setup to allow such cavernous boot but still maintain low center of gravity.
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Not totally on the torsion beam suspension. It mostly has to do with the placement of the fuel tank, which was put in the center. The torsion beam just helped a bit more with the space saving.
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Restless
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Torsion beam is retarded.
All best-selling cars in this segment use some kind of independant (Golf, Astra, Focus)
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Nick GravesX
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Fan Koni wrote:
It seems the rear window and hatch were streched abit and the stance wider & maybe lower.
I hope it is based on the NA Civic and not on the Jazz.
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They're ALL versions of the Global Small Plank; it just comes with two different rear suspension systems.
Good comparo though - as I suggested previously, the bodyside section is more similar to the RoW. Aside from that rather Ford old EuroFocus new-edge Acura-stylee front wheelarch.
The biggest change is the DLO; the front window cuts deeper into the door & the rear door window is enlarged. There might actually be a forlorn hope of seeing out of the bloody thing this time around; the 8G was an utter disgrace.
The RoW 9 may be slightly shorter in wheelbase further to rationalise it with the EU 9G; it was rather odd to have two different wheelbases of Civic.
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Nick GravesX
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Restless wrote:
Torsion beam is retarded.
All best-selling cars in this segment use some kind of independant (Golf, Astra, Focus)
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Ashtray still uses a TB; admittedly, they've added a Watt linkage to give it less retarded lateral control.
Opel was one of the few manufacturers who could properly locate a live axle in the old RWD days so their primitive cars actually handled pretty well, too.
Probably for 90% of Civic buyers, it's OK. The car handles pretty well up to 8/10. Push any harder & it then falls apart. Any it does that dumb bunny-hop on broken road joints.
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Mechanic
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RussV wrote:
Could this be the new small Acura?
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You know, Russ, you just may be on to something.
Boy, would that piss off the Honda cognoscenti.
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Alex_Bog_16v
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Just got a word from someone that attended a dealer meeting in Germany where Honda uncovered this new model.
Fact: 2 new engines, 1.6 diesel 120 hp and 1.6 140 hp replacing the 1.8. The 2.2 diesel and a 2.0 gas are due to fill the "sport" gap. There is no confirmed 8000 rpm hot hatch. The 1.5 IMA with Li battery is a strong possibility, but not yet confirmed.
So far, this is it.
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GoFaster
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This will look good with an Acura 'A' on the grill. I really like cars with a slanted hood like this. It is like flying when you can't see the hood. It would be a mild dissapointment if the standard 2012 RSX had just 140hp, but this still looks like a terrific every day commuter car. Loads of utility, perfect size, Honda, errr Acura, quality, thrifty to own... Looks like a homerun in North America if it has some pep and a better organized dash than the new Civic.
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Longhorn
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I thought the new Acura wa going to be based off the Civic platform. Isn't the Euro Civic based off the Fit platform? Also, we have read the sub TSX will be a sedan not a hatchback.
I think America could see this vehicle as the next Insight. The present Insight is based off the Fit platform, why save some development costs and bring this over. Remember a couple of years ago when Honda stated the HCH will have its own distinctive styling blah,blah, blah. Well we see the new HCH will not, so I am guessing Honda really wants the Insight to be their hybrid bearer. With Euro Civic, you have a vehicle on the same platform with a hatchbatch design that not doesn't look like a Prius clone.
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CarPhreakD
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Alex_Bog_16v wrote:
Just got a word from someone that attended a dealer meeting in Germany where Honda uncovered this new model.
Fact: 2 new engines, 1.6 diesel 120 hp and 1.6 140 hp replacing the 1.8. The 2.2 diesel and a 2.0 gas are due to fill the "sport" gap. There is no confirmed 8000 rpm hot hatch. The 1.5 IMA with Li battery is a strong possibility, but not yet confirmed.
So far, this is it.
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I'm not sure how to interpret this. Is the 1.6 litre engine the R16 or a bored L-series? Is the 2.0 a R20 if it's not a K20?
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TurkMan71
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Hey look at those clean and unfussy a pillars and mirrors! ;-)
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Alex_Bog_16v
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Alex_Bog_16v wrote:
Just got a word from someone that attended a dealer meeting in Germany where Honda uncovered this new model.
Fact: 2 new engines, 1.6 diesel 120 hp and 1.6 140 hp replacing the 1.8. The 2.2 diesel and a 2.0 gas are due to fill the "sport" gap. There is no confirmed 8000 rpm hot hatch. The 1.5 IMA with Li battery is a strong possibility, but not yet confirmed.
So far, this is it.
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I'm not sure how to interpret this. Is the 1.6 litre engine the R16 or a bored L-series? Is the 2.0 a R20 if it's not a K20?
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From what I've been told, the K20 is dead. 1.6 is either an upgraded R16 engine or a new engine. There is a strong possibility for the latter (a new 1.6 engine family was rumored for some time).
The really bad news for us is that it will look 80% just like the current model, only with a Civic Coupe inspired front fascia and a CR-Z like back end, but "bulkier". Most of us were really hoping for a sleeker, simple, dynamic approach somewhat different from the current model. Turns out we're only getting an elaborate facelift, from the exterior design point of view.
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Alex_Bog_16v
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Oh, and, the official presentation will be at the Frankfurt Motor Show this year. First official photos in June.
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FiSH-Chan
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GoFaster wrote:
This will look good with an Acura 'A' on the grill. I really like cars with a slanted hood like this. It is like flying when you can't see the hood. It would be a mild dissapointment if the standard 2012 RSX had just 140hp, but this still looks like a terrific every day commuter car. Loads of utility, perfect size, Honda, errr Acura, quality, thrifty to own... Looks like a homerun in North America if it has some pep and a better organized dash than the new Civic.
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There's this entry in Wikipedia about how the Honda City will be an sub-Tsx Acura in NA. I don't think this is very credible at all but assuming it is true, be prepared for a huge dissappointment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_City#North_American_version
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GoFaster
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
There's this entry in Wikipedia about how the Honda City will be an sub-Tsx Acura in NA. I don't think this is very credible at all but assuming it is true, be prepared for a huge dissappointment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_City#North_American_version
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I hope that entry is just someone having fun, because that would be a stunner, and not in a good way. Picking a car for the luxury division that is 1.5L 120hp and no hybrid option over an entire lineup of Euro Civic variants would certainly make the rest of the auto makers smile. Imagine choosing not to go against the BMW 1 Series or even the VW GTI, but instead the Yaris with Acura. It can't be...
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A77
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"without changing the name to revive the nameplate"......wtf? zero credibility.
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JeffX
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GoFaster wrote:
FiSH-Chan wrote:
There's this entry in Wikipedia about how the Honda City will be an sub-Tsx Acura in NA. I don't think this is very credible at all but assuming it is true, be prepared for a huge dissappointment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_City#North_American_version
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I hope that entry is just someone having fun, because that would be a stunner, and not in a good way. Picking a car for the luxury division that is 1.5L 120hp and no hybrid option over an entire lineup of Euro Civic variants would certainly make the rest of the auto makers smile. Imagine choosing not to go against the BMW 1 Series or even the VW GTI, but instead the Yaris with Acura. It can't be...
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What I don't understand is why so many people are hoping the Euro Civic comes over as the sub-TSX Acura. Apart from unique "Euro" hatch styling, the car itself isn't really any sort of remarkable standout. For starters, it has a rather inferior chassis configuration. Putting that chassis in the Acura lineup would be yet another step backwards. The car has been thumped in several European comparo tests too - the chassis just isn't up to par. Plus, given the dollar's weakness, this Euro-built vehicle would probably cost quite a bit once it made its way across the Atlantic.
With all that said, we've been told that the sub-TSX WON'T be based upon the Civic, but I don't know that I fully buy into that. We've heard similar lines before - back when they were developing the RDX we were told it would have absolutely nothing to do with the CR-V, but we know that's not entirely true. Or even the RL. It would really surprise me if the sub-TSX doesn't lean heavily upon the global small car platform. What I'm trying to figure out is how they're going to sort out the engine situation now that the Si and TSX already share basically identical engines - what is the sub-TSX going to have that would put it ahead of the Civic but keep it beneath the TSX? Will the TSX be getting a larger 4-cylinder, such as a variant of the one that the CR-V is rumored to be getting?
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Fan Koni
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The front wheel thing isn't real - this car has alot from the CR-Z.
I think the front, specially the lights will be more agressive and the waist lines very slim and creased.
Which is great.
Please arrive with IRS...
Nick Graves wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
It seems the rear window and hatch were streched abit and the stance wider & maybe lower.
I hope it is based on the NA Civic and not on the Jazz.
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They're ALL versions of the Global Small Plank; it just comes with two different rear suspension systems.
Good comparo though - as I suggested previously, the bodyside section is more similar to the RoW. Aside from that rather Ford old EuroFocus new-edge Acura-stylee front wheelarch.
The biggest change is the DLO; the front window cuts deeper into the door & the rear door window is enlarged. There might actually be a forlorn hope of seeing out of the bloody thing this time around; the 8G was an utter disgrace.
The RoW 9 may be slightly shorter in wheelbase further to rationalise it with the EU 9G; it was rather odd to have two different wheelbases of Civic.
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Midi_Amp
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Alex_Bog_16v wrote:
Just got a word from someone that attended a dealer meeting in Germany where Honda uncovered this new model.
Fact: 2 new engines, 1.6 diesel 120 hp and 1.6 140 hp replacing the 1.8. The 2.2 diesel and a 2.0 gas are due to fill the "sport" gap. There is no confirmed 8000 rpm hot hatch. The 1.5 IMA with Li battery is a strong possibility, but not yet confirmed.
So far, this is it.
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I'm not sure how to interpret this. Is the 1.6 litre engine the R16 or a bored L-series? Is the 2.0 a R20 if it's not a K20?
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I have interest on that 1.6L 140hp engine. For US that engine might be small and underpowered, but for Europe and Asia, that's quite a respectable number and quite stunning even. Most 1.6L engine delivers 120-130ish horsepower, and Suzuki even uses high compression and reworked springs, cams etc to get the Swift Sport 1.6L to achieve a partly 125 horsepower. Knowing Honda, the 1.6L is a base engine, something efficient and frugal yet produce power that for some car manufacturer is considered "sporty" enough.
The 2.0 gas version is a bit of a conundrum. Current R20 produces 150 horsepower, it would be only offers 10 horsepower of the planned 1.6L. The "hot" version of R20 produces 154 horsepower... Still, not exactly a fair tradeoff in term of liter per horsepower increase.
The 1.6L is definitely a new engine, impossible a 0.1L bored L15 can gain 20 horsepower without giving it a high strung quality, which is not desirable for daily drive.
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FiSH-Chan
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GoFaster wrote:
I hope that entry is just someone having fun, because that would be a stunner, and not in a good way. Picking a car for the luxury division that is 1.5L 120hp and no hybrid option over an entire lineup of Euro Civic variants would certainly make the rest of the auto makers smile.
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Well, they can simply fit the Fit hybrid system inside it and in China they have the R18 so that's not the issue but I know for sure that while the City being a very good car (it's after all a Fit sedan) it's just not seem Acura material. Plus Acura has too many sedans. Like Jeff said it might be based on the small global platform it's more credible than just rebadging the City over but hey we never know.
That the Euro Civic might have independant suspension is a nice start. And it's seems more suited as a possible Acura.
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A77
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a euro civic based hatch with IRS, a 1.6 140hp motor and IMA would meet Acura "advance' criteria as well as offering a distinctive appearance and sufficient differentiation from Civics of the world. The motor would be very high revving to get its 140hp but plenty of torque with IMA. But all sounds too high cost to me.
by the way, stripping out UK taxes makes a euro civic 1.8 cost $23,000 inc freight. that's only about $1000 more than what a 2012 EX civic will probably cost in canada. Not sure about US prices but they will continue to creep higher as the dollar crumbles.
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bigblue
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Possibly the worst spy-shots ever are here, there's a camouflaged Civic in them, but they're not particularly illuminating :-)
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Blue_Sky_surfer
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From the article:CAR reader Doug caught photos of a camouflage-wrapped Hond Civic driving through central London. Much like walking into a room and yelling DON'T LOOK AT ME!, the Civic managed to slip entirely noticed through the middle of the UK capital.
Doug spotted the car in Trafalgar Square, but couldn't quite guess the identity: 'I was in Trafalgar Square when this car passed me. I couldn't make out any details from where I was standing, but it's shaped in the mould of a Priusy/hybrid type car - but seemed shorter.' Shots from other passing observers (there tend to be a few camera-toting passers-by in central London for some reason) confirmed it was a Civic. [...]
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dominik331
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By the way, I saw 3 Euro Civic in the new Disney's Car 2 Movie.
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