ipribadi
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Not sure why the naming change .. I doubt the CRV would have a true AWD system which is full time 4WD but with no low range.
The only caveat of the CR-V's previous real time 4WD is when the front axel slips, the VSC is dumb and slows down the front spinning axel which reduced power transfer via the VC to the rear axel thus the car doesn't move. Manually turning off VSC solves this.
Perhaps Honda has fixed this via a more intelligent VSC or by using a better center diff like a Haldex diff.
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rocky
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Honda's done some pretty different stuff with AWD systems. In many ways they have been inconsistent.
The CRV/Element have RT system
Pilot/Xtour VTM 4
MDX SH AWD .
There is nothing wrong with open diffs and using traction control to stop the wheels from spinning. Land Rover did over a decade ago with the Discovery. Simple, cheap and effective. Also no special fluids required.
Honda should standardize on the VTM4 system for the CRV/Pilot/Xtour. Bring some economies of scale to an expensive AWD system
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6SPDTL
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I agree with Rocky. I believe the issue is price. VTM4 is significantly more expensive than the CRV's simple hydraulic system which, in my expirience, works quite well.
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aznxthuggie
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which system will be in the 2012?
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RTypezCivic
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Not that its relevant to the topic but doesn't the xtour have RT 4wd and not VTM-4
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Varmint
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rocky wrote:
There is nothing wrong with open diffs and using traction control to stop the wheels from spinning. Land Rover did over a decade ago with the Discovery. Simple, cheap and effective. Also no special fluids required.
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There is a big difference between letting the brakes do the work and having power directed by controlled diffs. Controlled diffs win every time. Cutting power when there is slippage means you don't move. Just because a tire does not have 100% traction does not mean it cannot get you moving.
No doubt, traction control has it's place. It's not enough to get the job done on it's own.
As another poster mentioned, the Crosstour uses RT4WD.
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A77
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And the Discovery had a totally different system - it drives all the wheels all the time with a 50/50 torque split and in regular use an open centre diff and open front and rear diffs. And a dual low/high range transfer box. On North America only Discoveries Land Rover deleted the centre diff lock feature for a few years (they actually only removed the connections to the transfer box - you could still modify them easily to restore the centre diff lock) and relied just on traction control (and the low range gears of course). In practice it was nowhere near as effective in genuine off road situations and could also lead to premature front axle failure due to shock loading on the drive shafts as the traction control braked and unbraked - Land Rover had already downgraded the axles from an earlier series (less splines) and conveniently omitted to beef anythign else up. Best not to lose grip in the first place and this is what proper 4WD and diff locks help ensure.
VTM-4 is a really capable system though that in the right vehicle (decent ground clearance/approach and departure angles etc) would work very well off road. It's just not what Honda are designed for. For what CRVs are invariably used for RT AWD/4WD is good enough.
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PGH
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Doesn't the current model have a 4wd badge on the rear. I belive Honda updated the RT-4WD for quicker response around 2006. I would bet it's carryover for 12. Why mess with success. In a perfect worls I like to see them implement something like what Subaru offers
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gofast182
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I don't want them to change a single thing with Real Time 4WD. First of all, 99.9% of all CR-Vs will never see anything rougher than a dirt road. My personal experience comes after the 12/26/10 blizzard in NJ. While most were snowed in for DAYS I had my wife's 2010 CR-V out 12 hours after the snow stopped falling when all roads were reduced to 1 lane (if not closed). It got me through everything with ease when only larger trucks were out and some of these seemingly 'greater' vehicles were getting stuck. The engagement/disengagement was imperceptible and wheelspin was minimal. It was just brilliant (except I never thought I'd see it get 12MPG avg., lol)
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ipribadi
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Perhaps the newer models with RT 4WD already has been improved, but previously VSC would not allow enough front wheel spin which in effect kills any rear wheel torque.
The system should be smart enough to know if the accelerator is pressed hard, that the front wheel spin should progressively be allowed until the throttle is decreased.
In any situation, the throttle being pressed hard means the car is not moving fast enough. If the rear wheel starts to slip or the driver needs more steering control, the driver would back off from full throttle and the VSC would act as usual.
This seems to be a simple logic fix for the VSC on vehicles with viscous coupling as a center diff.
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danielgr
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aznxthuggie wrote:
which system will be in the 2012?
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I never understood people's fixations with naming issues like this. As far as I'm concerned, a car has 4 wheels, and therefore 4WD means exactly the same thing as AWD regardless of whatever marketing guy may claim.
I've never made the difference and I don't think I ever will.
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A77
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Customers are hopelessly hung up about 4wd nomenclature. You just have to explain how it works and add that there are no fixed acronyms for what is what.
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xcess
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Honda doesn't have a full AWD system. All them CRV realtime 4wd badgeing or stickers are nothing but marketing gimmick. Honda needs to stick to reality and stop fooling everyone and change their badging To realtime FWD, Sh-FWD, VTM-FWD
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danielgr
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xcess wrote:
Honda doesn't have a full AWD system. All them CRV realtime 4wd badgeing or stickers are nothing but marketing gimmick. Honda needs to stick to reality and stop fooling everyone and change their badging To realtime FWD, Sh-FWD, VTM-FWD
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Grace141
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danielgr wrote:
xcess wrote:
Honda doesn't have a full AWD system. All them CRV realtime 4wd badgeing or stickers are nothing but marketing gimmick. Honda needs to stick to reality and stop fooling everyone and change their badging To realtime FWD, Sh-FWD, VTM-FWD
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There's some truth in the CRV not being a 4wd system though. Even though it's a very smart application of a simple idea, it's still just an automated mechanical torque transfer device with open diffs at front and rear. You get all tires hooked up or two spinning.
The sad part is we Americans in general have no understanding of 4wd and why we have no business driving such vehicles on paved roads. The big SUVs that clog our roads haven't been true 4wd for decades, and that goes for Jeep as well. True 4wd requires a direct link transfer and locking diffs front and rear. The term I would use for all of the pretend 4wd cars and trucks would be "partial 4wd" but put that in a commercial and see how it plays.
Having typed all of that, the CRV I had (pre-VSC) was unstoppable in snow up to 12-inches deep. It just seemed odd not having a lever or gear change somewhere to engage the rear diff, a foot lever for those of you who have used a tractor.
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