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garoto628
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If it is used, will "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Oil" do any harm to my 142,000 06 Civic Si engine that has been running on Honda Genuine Conventional 5W-30 Motor Oil all its life?
I walked in to my local dealership today to get a routine Engine/Trannsmission Oil Change. I usually replace the oil with bottles from the parts department, and today it was meant to be no different. However, and to my surprise, when the tech pulled out the 5 quarts of oil from the parts department, the bottles were black instead of the usual gray which called my attention. These bottles turned out to be "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Motor Oil".
I refused to put that oil in my engine despite them insisting that a synthetic blend will do no harm to my 142,000 miles motor. They also stated that Honda will no longer deliver the older conventional oil, and everything would be Sythetic Blend from now on.
I requested the oil change to be performed with the conventional 5W-30 oil from their bulk-hose, since they had already drained my old oil. I ensured with the tech and the service advisor that the hose they use is 5W-30 motor oil.
I never use dealership bulk oils because I have no idea what kind of oil they use. Being a Honda dealer I assume it must be a Honda approved oil, so I preferred that over the "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend Oil" while I figure out what to do.
I need to pick an oil to use with my car. I've always used the conventional Honda Genuine 5W-30 Motor oil, and was not planning to change that, but the dealership inists that Honda will no longer deliver that oil, but they'll deliver the Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend instead. Is there any truth to that? Is anyone informed about this. Any oil experts here?
Can I continue using their parts department for oil and use their "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Motor oil?"
Thanks
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garoto628
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garoto628 wrote:
If it is used, will "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Oil" do any harm to my 142,000 06 Civic Si engine that has been running on Honda Genuine Conventional 5W-30 Motor Oil all its life?
I walked in to my local dealership today to get a routine Engine/Trannsmission Oil Change. I usually replace the oil with bottles from the parts department, and today it was meant to be no different. However, and to my surprise, when the tech pulled out the 5 quarts of oil from the parts department, the bottles were black instead of the usual gray which called my attention. These bottles turned out to be "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Motor Oil".
I refused to put that oil in my engine despite them insisting that a synthetic blend will do no harm to my 142,000 miles motor. They also stated that Honda will no longer deliver the older conventional oil, and everything would be Sythetic Blend from now on.
I requested the oil change to be performed with the conventional 5W-30 oil from their bulk-hose, since they had already drained my old oil. I ensured with the tech and the service advisor that the hose they use is 5W-30 motor oil.
I never use dealership bulk oils because I have no idea what kind of oil they use. Being a Honda dealer I assume it must be a Honda approved oil, so I preferred that over the "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend Oil" while I figure out what to do.
I need to pick an oil to use with my car. I've always used the conventional Honda Genuine 5W-30 Motor oil, and was not planning to change that, but the dealership inists that Honda will no longer deliver that oil, but they'll deliver the Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend instead. Is there any truth to that? Is anyone informed about this. Any oil experts here?
Can I continue using their parts department for oil and use their "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Motor oil?"
Thanks
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Here's a Link with a picture of the new OIL, I'm talking about the first picture "Synthetic Blend", not full Synthetic.
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2873437
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P54
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garoto628 wrote:
If it is used, will "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Oil" do any harm to my 142,000 06 Civic Si engine that has been running on Honda Genuine Conventional 5W-30 Motor Oil all its life?
I walked in to my local dealership today to get a routine Engine/Trannsmission Oil Change. I usually replace the oil with bottles from the parts department, and today it was meant to be no different. However, and to my surprise, when the tech pulled out the 5 quarts of oil from the parts department, the bottles were black instead of the usual gray which called my attention. These bottles turned out to be "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Motor Oil".
I refused to put that oil in my engine despite them insisting that a synthetic blend will do no harm to my 142,000 miles motor. They also stated that Honda will no longer deliver the older conventional oil, and everything would be Sythetic Blend from now on.
I requested the oil change to be performed with the conventional 5W-30 oil from their bulk-hose, since they had already drained my old oil. I ensured with the tech and the service advisor that the hose they use is 5W-30 motor oil.
I never use dealership bulk oils because I have no idea what kind of oil they use. Being a Honda dealer I assume it must be a Honda approved oil, so I preferred that over the "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend Oil" while I figure out what to do.
I need to pick an oil to use with my car. I've always used the conventional Honda Genuine 5W-30 Motor oil, and was not planning to change that, but the dealership inists that Honda will no longer deliver that oil, but they'll deliver the Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend instead. Is there any truth to that? Is anyone informed about this. Any oil experts here?
Can I continue using their parts department for oil and use their "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Motor oil?"
Thanks
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No expert, however:
I don't know who makes Honda car oil, however the Honda motorcycle oil is a very good oil. My neighbor came by one day with his Honda Foreman. It is ten years old with 11000 miles on it and about 2800 hours. Engine takes 2-2.5 qt., however overnight it drained only 8oz. Under the valve cover there was black soot crumbles. Supposed to change every 100 hours, drove more than 400 without checking it. Engine did not smoke and run tight like a new engine. Changed oil (GN4 Honda mc oil as was in it). Started right up and no issues whatsoever.
Back to your question. A semi synthetic is superior to regular oil. I would rather use that than regular. A fully synthetic is even better. Now, will it harm to change after 142000 miles on regular? Most likely not, however after using regular for that long time I would pay close attention to oil level on first change. Reason is that regular oil do not clean as well and might leave deposits, depending on your change intervals and driving habits. When switching to synthetic they tend to clean up and might sometimes use more oil than normal on the first change, however it will stabilize on second change.
I would remove the oil filler cap on the valve cover and take a look inside. Is it all clean and shiny metal you see or is it brown or even worse, sludge inside? Regular oil break down faster and will not last as long as the synthetics. I don't know the Honda car oil, however the Honda regular MC oil run clean under normal use. Synthetics take more abuse. If engine is clean inside then the oil you have used are of good quality and/or you have changed oil frequently. Being an Si I would prefer a clean engine inside, and since the engine like to rev it will benefit from using semi-synthetic or even more fully synthetic. Another very good oil to use is Mobil 1 5W30. Full synthetic cost more, however last longer and you can change oil once a year unless you drive a whole lot. (They also make the 5W30 in extended performance). I think you should be able to see idle increase and that it will rev even quicker with that oil.
If it was mine Si I would not have used conventional oil at all. Why buy the best high revving engine and put the cheapest oil in it? Personally, I would not hesitate using the semi-synthetic and with caution and close attention to oil level the first change I would have gone fully synthetic. You can always try a semi-synthetic change first and if OK you can switch to fully synthetic later. Remember that first change MAY give you some oil consumption, depending on the state of your engine, however no need to panic. If engine is healthy it will correct itself on second change. Mobil 1 also makes a high mileage 5W30 which might help if you experience oil burn.
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Double J
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I don't claim to be an expert either. I haven't seen the bottles come out than you have shown yet but if you are looking for oil from a bulk hose you may be disapointed to know that it is most likely just recycled oil. Motor oil does not break down contrary to popular belief. What does break down is the additives that are added. This is why companies recycle motor oil to begin with. This is the main difference between low quality and high quality oil. vtec engines suffer from "starvation" which from what I'm told has much to do with foaming of the oil as well as gravity. If you are driving on the street you don't need to worry about that too much. If you want to use a good oil for a high reving engine with the best bang for buck you could try using the additive PowerUp. It does not penetrate the metal parts but rather justs adheres to the surface. You can gain fuel economy and hp just as simple as an oil change. I have run this additive with low quality synthetic oil with great result. I have even run my own car to less than 1 liter of oil and my engine still runs good. I did this on purpose. My car has 200,000km. Also something important is a good filter. Honda filters are great ie Honeywell but I prefer Hamp or Nippon filter due to higher oil pressure. I'm not a salesman just telling my experience.
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Double J
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I forgot to mention another few points. Don't be fooled by marketing companies like Castrol aka British Petroleum or Mobil1 which is obviously Exxon/Esso, or Pensoil. It is nice to see a timkin bearing test of them but there is the chance of cheating. I have worked for a large oil company in the past. Some are ok but only a few are really good and most people won't know of the good lubricants because they don't have the marketing budget. Motul is an exception because they have a great product but at a really high price. I'm not convinced that they are the best but in racing they are up there. Speaking of Honda branded oil I'm not sure but I have a strong feeling that it is Eneos. Maybe it is something different depending on the region and price of the day. You can see how easy this can become as political as it is. A couple links to check out:
http://www.powerupusa.net/
http://www.gf-5.com/
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garoto628
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P54 wrote:
garoto628 wrote:
If it is used, will "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Oil" do any harm to my 142,000 06 Civic Si engine that has been running on Honda Genuine Conventional 5W-30 Motor Oil all its life?
I walked in to my local dealership today to get a routine Engine/Trannsmission Oil Change. I usually replace the oil with bottles from the parts department, and today it was meant to be no different. However, and to my surprise, when the tech pulled out the 5 quarts of oil from the parts department, the bottles were black instead of the usual gray which called my attention. These bottles turned out to be "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Motor Oil".
I refused to put that oil in my engine despite them insisting that a synthetic blend will do no harm to my 142,000 miles motor. They also stated that Honda will no longer deliver the older conventional oil, and everything would be Sythetic Blend from now on.
I requested the oil change to be performed with the conventional 5W-30 oil from their bulk-hose, since they had already drained my old oil. I ensured with the tech and the service advisor that the hose they use is 5W-30 motor oil.
I never use dealership bulk oils because I have no idea what kind of oil they use. Being a Honda dealer I assume it must be a Honda approved oil, so I preferred that over the "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend Oil" while I figure out what to do.
I need to pick an oil to use with my car. I've always used the conventional Honda Genuine 5W-30 Motor oil, and was not planning to change that, but the dealership inists that Honda will no longer deliver that oil, but they'll deliver the Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend instead. Is there any truth to that? Is anyone informed about this. Any oil experts here?
Can I continue using their parts department for oil and use their "Honda Genuine Synthetic Blend 5W-30 Motor oil?"
Thanks
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No expert, however:
I don't know who makes Honda car oil, however the Honda motorcycle oil is a very good oil. My neighbor came by one day with his Honda Foreman. It is ten years old with 11000 miles on it and about 2800 hours. Engine takes 2-2.5 qt., however overnight it drained only 8oz. Under the valve cover there was black soot crumbles. Supposed to change every 100 hours, drove more than 400 without checking it. Engine did not smoke and run tight like a new engine. Changed oil (GN4 Honda mc oil as was in it). Started right up and no issues whatsoever.
Back to your question. A semi synthetic is superior to regular oil. I would rather use that than regular. A fully synthetic is even better. Now, will it harm to change after 142000 miles on regular? Most likely not, however after using regular for that long time I would pay close attention to oil level on first change. Reason is that regular oil do not clean as well and might leave deposits, depending on your change intervals and driving habits. When switching to synthetic they tend to clean up and might sometimes use more oil than normal on the first change, however it will stabilize on second change.
I would remove the oil filler cap on the valve cover and take a look inside. Is it all clean and shiny metal you see or is it brown or even worse, sludge inside? Regular oil break down faster and will not last as long as the synthetics. I don't know the Honda car oil, however the Honda regular MC oil run clean under normal use. Synthetics take more abuse. If engine is clean inside then the oil you have used are of good quality and/or you have changed oil frequently. Being an Si I would prefer a clean engine inside, and since the engine like to rev it will benefit from using semi-synthetic or even more fully synthetic. Another very good oil to use is Mobil 1 5W30. Full synthetic cost more, however last longer and you can change oil once a year unless you drive a whole lot. (They also make the 5W30 in extended performance). I think you should be able to see idle increase and that it will rev even quicker with that oil.
If it was mine Si I would not have used conventional oil at all. Why buy the best high revving engine and put the cheapest oil in it? Personally, I would not hesitate using the semi-synthetic and with caution and close attention to oil level the first change I would have gone fully synthetic. You can always try a semi-synthetic change first and if OK you can switch to fully synthetic later. Remember that first change MAY give you some oil consumption, depending on the state of your engine, however no need to panic. If engine is healthy it will correct itself on second change. Mobil 1 also makes a high mileage 5W30 which might help if you experience oil burn.
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Thanks for your info.
I actually look under the oil cap sometime after every oil change, and it has always looked nice and shiny all along, approx 98% Bright, shiny metal. I have changed my oil every 3000 miles, except twice at approx 5000miles I let the maintenance minder system ask me to change it because I wanted to experience what that was all about.
I am very aware of the wonderful engine I have, which is why I have taken excellent care of it. It has a brand new throttle body, its on its 3rd set of spark plugs, and has received two valve adjustments.
The reason why I chose conventional oil (Honda Genuine Only) is because I have had great experience with it in the past with previous honda's. Honda engines are very efficient, economic, and low maintenance. Engines such as BMW's and Mercedes require synthetic. I felt that I'd defeat the purpose of buying a Honda, and spending money I don't need to spend. Additionally, I read the car's manual for a lot of reasons, and I follow their recommendations word by word, and it has proven excellent results consistently. My engine feels as good as when it was new. Oil consumption is minimal (maybe 0.75 of a quart every 3000 miles at most). I use the car as a daily driver, and the engine is not abused. I drive it to enjoy it, not abuse it though. Meaning that I take it up there once in a while, not daily. My car sees vtec once a week in average. Some times, it does not see Vtec for two months straight, and then the next month it see's Vtec 10-15 times.
I guess my question is:
I have always used conventional Honda Genuine 5W-30 Engine Oil.
Honda no longer offers conventional, and now offers Synthetic Blended 5W-30.
Therefore I chose the bulk oil for this oil change while I figured out what to do (I mean, my car would have to drive oil-less otherwise).
Should I use synthetic-blended? would it cause damage?
Some folks say I can switch to synthetic at any mileage, but I can never go back, while others say I have to switch when the car is new and never go back.
However, others say that the car has to require synthetic and come with synthetic out of the factory, and finally, others say that If I've used conventional oil for 140000 miles, I can never switch to synthetic.
Honda doesn't give me an option.
Any thoughts?
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Potenza
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garoto628 wrote:
I guess my question is:
I have always used conventional Honda Genuine 5W-30 Engine Oil.
Honda no longer offers conventional, and now offers Synthetic Blended 5W-30.
Therefore I chose the bulk oil for this oil change while I figured out what to do (I mean, my car would have to drive oil-less otherwise).
Should I use synthetic-blended? would it cause damage?
Some folks say I can switch to synthetic at any mileage, but I can never go back, while others say I have to switch when the car is new and never go back.
However, others say that the car has to require synthetic and come with synthetic out of the factory, and finally, others say that If I've used conventional oil for 140000 miles, I can never switch to synthetic.
Honda doesn't give me an option.
Any thoughts?
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Also, if they don't have conventional 5W30 Honda oil there, why would you assume that the stuff coming out of the bulk hose is conventional 5W30 Honda oil? I would rather put something in my car that states right on the label what it is than some mystery oil!
And if you read the label in the pictures you linked to, you shouldn't really fear anything. "Surpasses Honda vehicle requirements." If you're a person who follows the owner's manual, you will see that the synthetic blend follows everything your engine requires.
But onto the technical part. No, there will be absolutely zero harm in using the synthetic blend. There will be no damage, and you have nothing to worry about. Technically it's a better lubricant, so really your engine should be better protected with the synthetic blend. And you can switch to synthetic oils anytime you want, and switch back to conventional anytime you want. It's all myths. I've talked to engineers from both Mobil and Castrol, and they all said the same things.
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Potenza
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Okay and this is 100% a guess, of course... but I will actually assume that the oil in the hose - if there is only one hose - is 5W20. At some point all of the regular Civics changed to 5W20, and Honda even changed their recommended oil for all prior Civics - previously 5W30 - to 5W20. And I think that's what the Fit calls for, and possibly the Accord, and likely other Honda cars as well. So if there's only one bulk hose, that would be the sensible oil weight to stock there, in my opinion.
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garoto628
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Potenza wrote:
Okay and this is 100% a guess, of course... but I will actually assume that the oil in the hose - if there is only one hose - is 5W20. At some point all of the regular Civics changed to 5W20, and Honda even changed their recommended oil for all prior Civics - previously 5W30 - to 5W20. And I think that's what the Fit calls for, and possibly the Accord, and likely other Honda cars as well. So if there's only one bulk hose, that would be the sensible oil weight to stock there, in my opinion.
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Thanks Potenza. I checked a variety of local dealerships, and online stores, the only conventional Honda has left is the 5W-20. Everything else suddenly got replaced by the Synthetic Blend, in fact it appears that all remaining inventory was taken off the shelves, and I assume this was at Honda's request. I find it hard to believe that no one has any remaining inventory of conventional 5W-30. I am planning to call Honda Monday morning to ask. If someone reassures me that it is ok to add synthetic blend (like you did), I'd drive down there tomorrow and get that replaced, but its still a bit scary.
There's two hoses for oil, and the rest is for air, water, etc. I asked him exactly three times, and he stated that it was 5W-30 each time. The receipt says 5W-30, and about 3 years ago, I had a similar dilemma where the manager assured me they had 5W-30 in the hose (I never believed them, but this time I felt it was a safer bet than synthetic given the knowledge I had about the topic. My car was sitting there without any oil...).
I am sure it is not the best oil out there, but it is the stuff they use for all their cars and I'm very optimistic it won't do any harm while I figure out which oil to use in the next few days. I really truly believe honda must at least verify that the oil they use is something they agree to use, and I'm sure all local dealers are likely to use the same suppliers.
Anyhow, my concern was mainly between synthetic blend/conventional. I read the label, but I just didn't feel it was right to add synthetic, pardon my ignorance in the topic, but I could swear I heard somewhere say that you can't go synthetic after driving for so long with conventional.
Should I hang on to the oil in my car, or replace with that synthetic blend. Can I ever go back to conventional oil? will honda discontinue this synthetic blend stuff, and force me to go with a different brand of synthetic blend. I really am confused, this was never an issue. It was Honda Genuine 5W-30 as it states on the manual and that was the end of the story, until today...
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Restless
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Synthetic oil is better than semi-synthetic, which is better than regular.
How using better oil can damage your engine?!
Yes, MAYBE the engine will "eat" more oil, but if you check oil level as recommended there is nothing to worry about.
Better oil does not damage the engine, lack of oil doas it.
Besides, I'm 99.9% that at least in Europe non-synthetic 5w30 is non existent . AFAIK best mineral oils here are 10w40, tho are very hard to find, usually 15w40. Most used are semi-snyth 10w40 and in recent years more and more cars (especially diesels and gasoline with turbo) require fully synthetic from 0w20 to 5w30
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P54
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garoto628 wrote:
Potenza wrote:
Okay and this is 100% a guess, of course... but I will actually assume that the oil in the hose - if there is only one hose - is 5W20. At some point all of the regular Civics changed to 5W20, and Honda even changed their recommended oil for all prior Civics - previously 5W30 - to 5W20. And I think that's what the Fit calls for, and possibly the Accord, and likely other Honda cars as well. So if there's only one bulk hose, that would be the sensible oil weight to stock there, in my opinion.
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Thanks Potenza. I checked a variety of local dealerships, and online stores, the only conventional Honda has left is the 5W-20. Everything else suddenly got replaced by the Synthetic Blend, in fact it appears that all remaining inventory was taken off the shelves, and I assume this was at Honda's request. I find it hard to believe that no one has any remaining inventory of conventional 5W-30. I am planning to call Honda Monday morning to ask. If someone reassures me that it is ok to add synthetic blend (like you did), I'd drive down there tomorrow and get that replaced, but its still a bit scary.
There's two hoses for oil, and the rest is for air, water, etc. I asked him exactly three times, and he stated that it was 5W-30 each time. The receipt says 5W-30, and about 3 years ago, I had a similar dilemma where the manager assured me they had 5W-30 in the hose (I never believed them, but this time I felt it was a safer bet than synthetic given the knowledge I had about the topic. My car was sitting there without any oil...).
I am sure it is not the best oil out there, but it is the stuff they use for all their cars and I'm very optimistic it won't do any harm while I figure out which oil to use in the next few days. I really truly believe honda must at least verify that the oil they use is something they agree to use, and I'm sure all local dealers are likely to use the same suppliers.
Anyhow, my concern was mainly between synthetic blend/conventional. I read the label, but I just didn't feel it was right to add synthetic, pardon my ignorance in the topic, but I could swear I heard somewhere say that you can't go synthetic after driving for so long with conventional.
Should I hang on to the oil in my car, or replace with that synthetic blend. Can I ever go back to conventional oil? will honda discontinue this synthetic blend stuff, and force me to go with a different brand of synthetic blend. I really am confused, this was never an issue. It was Honda Genuine 5W-30 as it states on the manual and that was the end of the story, until today...
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1. Throw confusion and feelings out!
2. Semi-synthetic is way better than conventional.
3. Fully synthetic is superior.
4. Will do no harm, only benefits.
5. You can go back to conventional after using synthetic if you so want. But why? Synthetics are better.
6. No need for extra additives in a premium oil.
7. Use Honda OEM filters.
8. Oil in the shop from a hose is bought in bulk (cheaper), may not be the same oil they sell in bottles as some dealers have agreements with certain oil suppliers.(money maker for dealer).
9. What you have heard about synthetic is not true.
10.Main reason for thinner oil today is CAFE, not to get engine last longer (except it is good for cold start up). With higher viscosity you may reduce oil consumption if you have any, but be aware that oil with the same number (ie 5W30- last number for hot engine , first for cold engines) can have different viscosity.
11. The only oil Acura approved for RDX is Mobil 1 5W30.
12. Mobil 1 synthetic is a very good oil.
If your engine is shiny and clean inside the oil you have used have been changed frequently and are of a good quality (additive package).
The reason why some say you should not go synthetic after long time on conventional is because if you used a bad conventional (like pennzoil) and changed infrequently you would have built up sludge and varnish inside engine. A synthetic would clean up the mess and usually you will experience oil consumption on the first clean up change. If the engine was wore and clearances was upheld by deposits you could risk oil consumption as the deposits was cleansed away.
Your engine sounds to be in good condition and to change to semi-synthetic will do no harm. It is a much better oil. You can use conventional, go semi-synthetic, fully synthetic and back again, no harm. The talk you hear is only if you have a gummed up engine that are wore out anyway. The oil consumption you have may be lowered or disappear with the semi-synthetic or with different viscosity.
Do your service minder tell you to to change oil at 3000 miles? Or do you do it voluntarily. Might be OK on conventional, however Mobil 1 extended service is good for 15000 miles. How many miles do you drive in a year?
Bottom line: Semi-synthetic will do no harm. Having a Si I would be more concerned the other way, although changing at 3000 miles is a good precaution with conventional oil. If engine is still clean after 140000 miles Honda are using a good additive package.
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garoto628
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P54 wrote:
garoto628 wrote:
Potenza wrote:
Okay and this is 100% a guess, of course... but I will actually assume that the oil in the hose - if there is only one hose - is 5W20. At some point all of the regular Civics changed to 5W20, and Honda even changed their recommended oil for all prior Civics - previously 5W30 - to 5W20. And I think that's what the Fit calls for, and possibly the Accord, and likely other Honda cars as well. So if there's only one bulk hose, that would be the sensible oil weight to stock there, in my opinion.
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Thanks Potenza. I checked a variety of local dealerships, and online stores, the only conventional Honda has left is the 5W-20. Everything else suddenly got replaced by the Synthetic Blend, in fact it appears that all remaining inventory was taken off the shelves, and I assume this was at Honda's request. I find it hard to believe that no one has any remaining inventory of conventional 5W-30. I am planning to call Honda Monday morning to ask. If someone reassures me that it is ok to add synthetic blend (like you did), I'd drive down there tomorrow and get that replaced, but its still a bit scary.
There's two hoses for oil, and the rest is for air, water, etc. I asked him exactly three times, and he stated that it was 5W-30 each time. The receipt says 5W-30, and about 3 years ago, I had a similar dilemma where the manager assured me they had 5W-30 in the hose (I never believed them, but this time I felt it was a safer bet than synthetic given the knowledge I had about the topic. My car was sitting there without any oil...).
I am sure it is not the best oil out there, but it is the stuff they use for all their cars and I'm very optimistic it won't do any harm while I figure out which oil to use in the next few days. I really truly believe honda must at least verify that the oil they use is something they agree to use, and I'm sure all local dealers are likely to use the same suppliers.
Anyhow, my concern was mainly between synthetic blend/conventional. I read the label, but I just didn't feel it was right to add synthetic, pardon my ignorance in the topic, but I could swear I heard somewhere say that you can't go synthetic after driving for so long with conventional.
Should I hang on to the oil in my car, or replace with that synthetic blend. Can I ever go back to conventional oil? will honda discontinue this synthetic blend stuff, and force me to go with a different brand of synthetic blend. I really am confused, this was never an issue. It was Honda Genuine 5W-30 as it states on the manual and that was the end of the story, until today...
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1. Throw confusion and feelings out!
2. Semi-synthetic is way better than conventional.
3. Fully synthetic is superior.
4. Will do no harm, only benefits.
5. You can go back to conventional after using synthetic if you so want. But why? Synthetics are better.
6. No need for extra additives in a premium oil.
7. Use Honda OEM filters.
8. Oil in the shop from a hose is bought in bulk (cheaper), may not be the same oil they sell in bottles as some dealers have agreements with certain oil suppliers.(money maker for dealer).
9. What you have heard about synthetic is not true.
10.Main reason for thinner oil today is CAFE, not to get engine last longer (except it is good for cold start up). With higher viscosity you may reduce oil consumption if you have any, but be aware that oil with the same number (ie 5W30- last number for hot engine , first for cold engines) can have different viscosity.
11. The only oil Acura approved for RDX is Mobil 1 5W30.
12. Mobil 1 synthetic is a very good oil.
If your engine is shiny and clean inside the oil you have used have been changed frequently and are of a good quality (additive package).
The reason why some say you should not go synthetic after long time on conventional is because if you used a bad conventional (like pennzoil) and changed infrequently you would have built up sludge and varnish inside engine. A synthetic would clean up the mess and usually you will experience oil consumption on the first clean up change. If the engine was wore and clearances was upheld by deposits you could risk oil consumption as the deposits was cleansed away.
Your engine sounds to be in good condition and to change to semi-synthetic will do no harm. It is a much better oil. You can use conventional, go semi-synthetic, fully synthetic and back again, no harm. The talk you hear is only if you have a gummed up engine that are wore out anyway. The oil consumption you have may be lowered or disappear with the semi-synthetic or with different viscosity.
Do your service minder tell you to to change oil at 3000 miles? Or do you do it voluntarily. Might be OK on conventional, however Mobil 1 extended service is good for 15000 miles. How many miles do you drive in a year?
Bottom line: Semi-synthetic will do no harm. Having a Si I would be more concerned the other way, although changing at 3000 miles is a good precaution with conventional oil. If engine is still clean after 140000 miles Honda are using a good additive package.
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Thanks for that P54!
The engine is indeed nice and shiny and I have changed it every 3000 miles voluntarily. I ignore the service minder because it wants to take me up to 5000 miles, and sometimes even up to 6000 miles before warning me. (I've tested it once by changing the oil at 5000 miles, and a second time by changing it at 3000 miles, but without reseting the system).
I really appreciate that info P54! Do you know all of this by experience, or your a mechanic?
Any other thoughts P54, or anyone?
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Potenza
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garoto628 wrote:
P54 wrote:
garoto628 wrote:
Potenza wrote:
Okay and this is 100% a guess, of course... but I will actually assume that the oil in the hose - if there is only one hose - is 5W20. At some point all of the regular Civics changed to 5W20, and Honda even changed their recommended oil for all prior Civics - previously 5W30 - to 5W20. And I think that's what the Fit calls for, and possibly the Accord, and likely other Honda cars as well. So if there's only one bulk hose, that would be the sensible oil weight to stock there, in my opinion.
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Thanks Potenza. I checked a variety of local dealerships, and online stores, the only conventional Honda has left is the 5W-20. Everything else suddenly got replaced by the Synthetic Blend, in fact it appears that all remaining inventory was taken off the shelves, and I assume this was at Honda's request. I find it hard to believe that no one has any remaining inventory of conventional 5W-30. I am planning to call Honda Monday morning to ask. If someone reassures me that it is ok to add synthetic blend (like you did), I'd drive down there tomorrow and get that replaced, but its still a bit scary.
There's two hoses for oil, and the rest is for air, water, etc. I asked him exactly three times, and he stated that it was 5W-30 each time. The receipt says 5W-30, and about 3 years ago, I had a similar dilemma where the manager assured me they had 5W-30 in the hose (I never believed them, but this time I felt it was a safer bet than synthetic given the knowledge I had about the topic. My car was sitting there without any oil...).
I am sure it is not the best oil out there, but it is the stuff they use for all their cars and I'm very optimistic it won't do any harm while I figure out which oil to use in the next few days. I really truly believe honda must at least verify that the oil they use is something they agree to use, and I'm sure all local dealers are likely to use the same suppliers.
Anyhow, my concern was mainly between synthetic blend/conventional. I read the label, but I just didn't feel it was right to add synthetic, pardon my ignorance in the topic, but I could swear I heard somewhere say that you can't go synthetic after driving for so long with conventional.
Should I hang on to the oil in my car, or replace with that synthetic blend. Can I ever go back to conventional oil? will honda discontinue this synthetic blend stuff, and force me to go with a different brand of synthetic blend. I really am confused, this was never an issue. It was Honda Genuine 5W-30 as it states on the manual and that was the end of the story, until today...
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1. Throw confusion and feelings out!
2. Semi-synthetic is way better than conventional.
3. Fully synthetic is superior.
4. Will do no harm, only benefits.
5. You can go back to conventional after using synthetic if you so want. But why? Synthetics are better.
6. No need for extra additives in a premium oil.
7. Use Honda OEM filters.
8. Oil in the shop from a hose is bought in bulk (cheaper), may not be the same oil they sell in bottles as some dealers have agreements with certain oil suppliers.(money maker for dealer).
9. What you have heard about synthetic is not true.
10.Main reason for thinner oil today is CAFE, not to get engine last longer (except it is good for cold start up). With higher viscosity you may reduce oil consumption if you have any, but be aware that oil with the same number (ie 5W30- last number for hot engine , first for cold engines) can have different viscosity.
11. The only oil Acura approved for RDX is Mobil 1 5W30.
12. Mobil 1 synthetic is a very good oil.
If your engine is shiny and clean inside the oil you have used have been changed frequently and are of a good quality (additive package).
The reason why some say you should not go synthetic after long time on conventional is because if you used a bad conventional (like pennzoil) and changed infrequently you would have built up sludge and varnish inside engine. A synthetic would clean up the mess and usually you will experience oil consumption on the first clean up change. If the engine was wore and clearances was upheld by deposits you could risk oil consumption as the deposits was cleansed away.
Your engine sounds to be in good condition and to change to semi-synthetic will do no harm. It is a much better oil. You can use conventional, go semi-synthetic, fully synthetic and back again, no harm. The talk you hear is only if you have a gummed up engine that are wore out anyway. The oil consumption you have may be lowered or disappear with the semi-synthetic or with different viscosity.
Do your service minder tell you to to change oil at 3000 miles? Or do you do it voluntarily. Might be OK on conventional, however Mobil 1 extended service is good for 15000 miles. How many miles do you drive in a year?
Bottom line: Semi-synthetic will do no harm. Having a Si I would be more concerned the other way, although changing at 3000 miles is a good precaution with conventional oil. If engine is still clean after 140000 miles Honda are using a good additive package.
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Thanks for that P54!
The engine is indeed nice and shiny and I have changed it every 3000 miles voluntarily. I ignore the service minder because it wants to take me up to 5000 miles, and sometimes even up to 6000 miles before warning me. (I've tested it once by changing the oil at 5000 miles, and a second time by changing it at 3000 miles, but without reseting the system).
I really appreciate that info P54! Do you know all of this by experience, or your a mechanic?
Any other thoughts P54, or anyone?
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Frankly, you really don't need to change your oil every 3000 miles, either... but that is a personal habit that some people cannot break. Really with a quality oil (Honda's synthetic blend or other high quality brand) the maintenance minder is fine. On my brother's 07 Si, it's allowed him over 7000 miles once or twice before reaching 10% remaining oil life. That's mostly highway miles, and he drives it very easily, but still I have no problem with that mileage on one oil change. (He also drove on Laguna Seca for a day, and on that oil cycle the maintenance minder suggested a change at close to 2500 miles; so it really is an intelligent system, not just a mile- or time-based one). Sure they say that some oils are okay for 15k miles or whatever now, but they never talk about the filters. Oil keeps getting more and more advanced, but filters never seem to improve much... so that's the only reason I wouldn't go anywhere near 15k on one oil filter.
As for your original query, yes whatever oil is in there now (bulk 5w30) is fine. When that's out, have no fear about switching to 5w30 synthetic blend. It'll be an absolutely unnoticeable change for you. And if you ever feel like switching back to conventional oil, no problem there either. Fear not!
I had a del Sol Si (SOHC VTEC) that I bought used with 84k miles on it. Got cheap Walmart oil changes and such back then (1998 or so). Switched to Castrol Syntec (full synthetic) at 132k miles and used that until I sold the car at 170k miles. During my 10 year ownership, it never leaked one drop of oil. Never burned one drop of oil. 3.5qts in, 3.5qts out, usually 5000 miles later. So, absolutely no problems - or noticeable differences - upon switching over at that high of a mileage. And would have had no problems had I ever chosen to switch back, as well.
As I said, I've talked to multiple engineers from both Mobil and Castrol, and they all said the same things on this subject (also the same as what P54 and I have said). And I'm a BMW factory-trained tech as well.
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Mechanic
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You were told the truth. ConocoPhillips (one word) (symbol "COP") now supplies American Honda Motor Company with all of its bottled oil products, replacing AHMC's long-time bottler, Exxon-Mobil (XOM). (You can read about it here: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs003/1100412198756/archive/1103672048578.html.) COP also supplies Ford Motor Company with all of its bottled oil products, and in the weight your SI requires -- i.e., 5W-30 -- COP's "Honda Motor Oil" is a semi-synthetic. It is, in other words, a better product than the conventional Exxon-Mobil Clean 5000 you used to purchase in bottles from your Honda dealer. Thus, you now have two choices: you can pay your dealer a premium price for COP/"Honda Motor Oil" in one-quart bottles, or you can buy essentially the same semi-synthetic product (5W-30 weight Motorcraft Motor Oil) at Walmart for about $14 for a 5-qt jug, and do your own oil changes.
As for the bulk oil you chose, it could be anything, depending on whatever contractual relationship your dealer has with a bulk oil supplier.
Finally, you can switch back and forth among conventional, synthetic and semi-synthetic brands of motor oil, mixing and melding to your heart's content. It's absolutely harmless and has been for at least a decade when the EPA began to regulate the amount of MoS2 in motor oil.
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garoto628
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Mechanic wrote:
You were told the truth. ConocoPhillips (one word) (symbol "COP") now supplies American Honda Motor Company with all of its bottled oil products, replacing AHMC's long-time bottler, Exxon-Mobil (XOM). (You can read about it here: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs003/1100412198756/archive/1103672048578.html.) COP also supplies Ford Motor Company with all of its bottled oil products, and in the weight your SI requires -- i.e., 5W-30 -- COP's "Honda Motor Oil" is a semi-synthetic. It is, in other words, a better product than the conventional Exxon-Mobil Clean 5000 you used to purchase in bottles from your Honda dealer. Thus, you now have two choices: you can pay your dealer a premium price for COP/"Honda Motor Oil" in one-quart bottles, or you can buy essentially the same semi-synthetic product (5W-30 weight Motorcraft Motor Oil) at Walmart for about $14 for a 5-qt jug, and do your own oil changes.
As for the bulk oil you chose, it could be anything, depending on whatever contractual relationship your dealer has with a bulk oil supplier.
Finally, you can switch back and forth among conventional, synthetic and semi-synthetic brands of motor oil, mixing and melding to your heart's content. It's absolutely harmless and has been for at least a decade when the EPA began to regulate the amount of MoS2 in motor oil.
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Mechanic, very interesting article indeed. My honda dealership has used '76' lubricants up until 2008 (dealership was bought by a franchisee who also owns many other dealerships in the downtown L.A. area), after that I am not sure what they use.
I never really cared since I've always used Honda's ExxonMobil stuff. Anyhow, I added their new oil today and dumped the bulk oil at no cost to me (10-year old relationship with the dealership). What sold me was the GF-5 stuff, and the fact that it's still "Honda Genuine for all Honda and Acura models".
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garoto628
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garoto628 wrote:
Mechanic wrote:
You were told the truth. ConocoPhillips (one word) (symbol "COP") now supplies American Honda Motor Company with all of its bottled oil products, replacing AHMC's long-time bottler, Exxon-Mobil (XOM). (You can read about it here: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs003/1100412198756/archive/1103672048578.html.) COP also supplies Ford Motor Company with all of its bottled oil products, and in the weight your SI requires -- i.e., 5W-30 -- COP's "Honda Motor Oil" is a semi-synthetic. It is, in other words, a better product than the conventional Exxon-Mobil Clean 5000 you used to purchase in bottles from your Honda dealer. Thus, you now have two choices: you can pay your dealer a premium price for COP/"Honda Motor Oil" in one-quart bottles, or you can buy essentially the same semi-synthetic product (5W-30 weight Motorcraft Motor Oil) at Walmart for about $14 for a 5-qt jug, and do your own oil changes.
As for the bulk oil you chose, it could be anything, depending on whatever contractual relationship your dealer has with a bulk oil supplier.
Finally, you can switch back and forth among conventional, synthetic and semi-synthetic brands of motor oil, mixing and melding to your heart's content. It's absolutely harmless and has been for at least a decade when the EPA began to regulate the amount of MoS2 in motor oil.
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Mechanic, very interesting article indeed. My honda dealership has used '76' lubricants up until 2008 (dealership was bought by a franchisee who also owns many other dealerships in the downtown L.A. area), after that I am not sure what they use.
I never really cared since I've always used Honda's ExxonMobil stuff. Anyhow, I added their new oil today and dumped the bulk oil at no cost to me (10-year old relationship with the dealership). What sold me was the GF-5 stuff, and the fact that it's still "Honda Genuine for all Honda and Acura models".
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Mechanic, and also, I ran accross some of your comments on driveaccord.net (http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53472), was there ever a resolution to how the ConocoPhillips oil held up in lab tests? Just curious.
Thanks.
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Mechanic
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Garoto, I've only seen one VOA of Honda's (COP's) 5W-20 weight semi-synthetic, and that was a Blackstone analysis on bobistheoilguy.com. (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2127653#Post2127653.) I'd like to see several others for comparision. I haven't yet seen a test of Honda's 5W-30 weight semi-synthetic.
WRT the latter, for an industry that's usually fairly staid, recently there have been a lot of changes in oil products, and certainly more are coming. Some of this is driven by competition among oil producers, but most of it is driven by the quest for fuel efficiencies where even subtle changes in viscosity can have a significant effect when spread over a fleet average. But one of the results has been a host of new semi-synthetics and reformulated synthetics. Mobil 1, the industry leader, announced a new one just last week; XOM now has six brands of motor oil, and BP (Castrol) has reformulated its premium synthetic ("Edge") in response to apparent concerns that its product was consistently at a low level (cSt) in each viscosity range -- too low in the eyes of consumers, in other words.
My point is it will be a while before these new products have been in the hands of consumers and enough UOAs and VOAs have been done by various labs to draw any meaningful conclusions. However, as I said before, the entire industry is so tightly regulated now WRT what can be used as an oil additive and in what proportion that there are no products currently produced by the majors (XOM, COP, BP, etc.) that are vastly superior or inferior to one another. (To put it another way, when was the last time you heard of a confirmed oil-related engine failure?) Thus, you can take comfort in that and the fact that Honda's not going to market an oil product that hasn't been rigorously tested by its supplier before it hit the shelves. In this case, HMC is relying on years of research that COP and Ford have done on essentially the same products, and so can you.
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bwilliam13
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I'm not an expert or a mechanic, only passing along what I've read from different sources, and what I do personally.
Full disclosure, I have an '07 Si with about 120k miles on it, and I take my car to the track about 4-8 times a summer and run it hard all day. I also commute to work 110 miles round trip every day in the same vehicle.
Conventional oil is more abrasive, and as it is used in your engine, the additives gets burnt up and form deposits in your engine. As engine parts rub very close together, those deposits rub against your engine parts and slowly but surely rub away, causing "gaps" in some places. On/around pistons are the most obvious, as they go up and down in the cylinders. The longer you run conventional oil, the quicker this will happen.
This is also why during the break-in period of the car, most gearheads say to run conventional oil in your car and drive it like you stole it to basically "groove" the cylinders, then go to full synthetic after 500 miles and never look back. You can always go from synthetic to conventional safely...not the opposite however.
There are only 3 full synthetic oils that I will use in my car: Amsoil, Motul, and Mobil 1...in that order. Amsoil is mail-order only and is pretty expensive...I always run it during the summer when I take the car to the track. However, with the economy the way it is, I will run Mobil 1 when not at the track...you can get it at Walmart and it isn't much more expensive than conventional. Motul is easier to find than Amsoil, but only a few auto parts stores carry it regularly. Amsoil in my opinion is the top of the line. I ran it for 12k miles between oil changes once, and when I had to take it back in when it was too cold to do the oil change myself, they asked me why I was changing the oil...it was that clear...looked new. The quality of the oil filter had a lot to do with that as well. I only use Amsoil oil filters...won't use another one unless they go out of business.
If you aren't on the pedal all the time, you can easily go 10k miles on a single oil change. I've done that a few times during periods where I wasn't on the pedal all the time. Once the oil was a caramel color (still transparent tho) when it was changed after 13k miles instead of the cream soda color it is normally after 3-4k miles. Mobil 1's "economy" 0w30 blend you can supposedly go 30k miles between oil changes, but I wouldn't ever try it. Someone else can risk that with their engine. However, I only run 0w30. The engine runs smoother, and starts easier/smoother in the winter time. Fuel economy increases by about 1-2 mpg running it as well for me. Amsoil's most popular offering is 0w30.
After running your vehicle on conventional for 142k miles, I wouldn't run it on synthetic unless it's a blend. The safest thing would have been to break the engine in with conventional, and use synthetic 100% thereafter. Since you didn't do that, you may burn off oil if you start using synthetic now. Once the synthetic starts cleaning away the conventional oil's deposits, you will end up having "gaps" where you had deposits before. If this is around cylinder heads and whatnot, you may start burning the synthetic oil. People who suffer from this may be 1/2 to 1 quart low at every oil change. My car stays pretty much at the same level...but I've also been running full synthetic since 500 miles on the odometer.
My advice, stay with some type of synthetic blend and call it good. Otherwise, you may start burning 100% synthetic.
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Mechanic
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bwilliam13, I don't want to start a foodfight, but I have to say I disagree with most of your comments which, IMHO, perpetuate a series of myths regarding the properties of conventional and synthetic motor oil and their use in modern automobile engines. Also, for the sake of others who may read your comments and think they are correct, permit me to note that M1's 0W-30 is a fully synthetic oil, not a blend. Additionally, XOM has never stated that one can (to quote you) "go 30k miles between oil changes" using any of its products. Finally, I think the fact that you've apparently enjoyed 120k trouble-free miles with your SI says a lot regarding the integrity of design and engineering of Honda engines in the hands a broad spectum of owners.
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garoto628
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bwilliam 13 - I never contemplated going full synthetic.
Based on research from information provided in this particular thread, reading through FAQs of valvoline, mobil1, etc, and asking the techs at the honda dealership (I don't know how reliable techs are, but they were consistent with their comments; I have concluded that switching from synthetic to conventional and back is acceptable, so long as the engine is in good condition.
It is hard to know in what mechanical condition the engine actually is, but based on the fact that I own it since new, the engine's mileage, service history, and the fact that I don't drive it hard I think it is safe to conclude that my engine is in sound mechanical condition.
With that said, I believe I can safely switch from conventional to full synthetic, however I would not go back to conventional. Despite this, I will not switch to synthetic at the moment, and I decided to opt for Honda's new Genuine 5W-30 Synthetic Blend motor oil to replace the Honda Genuine Conventional 5W-30 Motor oil I used before. I feel that this will ensure no significant changes occur in my motor because of the oil I am using, while also using a better oil provided by Honda.
Honda has proven their engines high performing, reliable, economical, and low maintenance. Using Honda's very own oil will help me take advantage of that excellent attribute of low price and low maintenance, while maintaining the level of performance, reliability and long life expectancy of the engine.
I feel that Honda ensures their oils are formulated to a standard, and that standard should at least be the minimum required to allow the engine to live the greatest amount of miles allowed by physics and chemistry, before they take part in the degeneration that is expected of all motors.
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P54
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garoto628 wrote:
bwilliam 13 - I never contemplated going full synthetic.
Based on research from information provided in this particular thread, reading through FAQs of valvoline, mobil1, etc, and asking the techs at the honda dealership (I don't know how reliable techs are, but they were consistent with their comments; I have concluded that switching from synthetic to conventional and back is acceptable, so long as the engine is in good condition.
It is hard to know in what mechanical condition the engine actually is, but based on the fact that I own it since new, the engine's mileage, service history, and the fact that I don't drive it hard I think it is safe to conclude that my engine is in sound mechanical condition.
With that said, I believe I can safely switch from conventional to full synthetic, however I would not go back to conventional. Despite this, I will not switch to synthetic at the moment, and I decided to opt for Honda's new Genuine 5W-30 Synthetic Blend motor oil to replace the Honda Genuine Conventional 5W-30 Motor oil I used before. I feel that this will ensure no significant changes occur in my motor because of the oil I am using, while also using a better oil provided by Honda.
Honda has proven their engines high performing, reliable, economical, and low maintenance. Using Honda's very own oil will help me take advantage of that excellent attribute of low price and low maintenance, while maintaining the level of performance, reliability and long life expectancy of the engine.
I feel that Honda ensures their oils are formulated to a standard, and that standard should at least be the minimum required to allow the engine to live the greatest amount of miles allowed by physics and chemistry, before they take part in the degeneration that is expected of all motors.
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AMEN!
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timp64
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Everyone seems to have a take on this. I do find what a lot of what was said to be irrational beliefs.
Changing from regular oil to synthetic there is a concern for oil leaks. Regular oil will plug small holes if there are any. If there are any small holes synthetic may find it and a leak may occur. With my 2003 accord I ran synthetic for a long while. I did end up with oil leaks, all fixed under my extended warranty. I've switched to regular oil and don't worry now that I have 120,000 miles on it.
But from brand to brand yes there may be some brands that are better than others. However as long as they meet a service rating the oil isn't going to harm the engine. A better oil may last longer meaning you don't have to change as often. And that's the main point of running synthetic is that you can run longer on a change. For someone changing every 3,000 miles the worst oil on the market isn't going to break down in that time period. And in my opinion everyone should go at least 5,000 miles on oil or you're being wasteful. I've even gone 10,000 miles and oil doesn't get as black as I remember it getting back in the 80's.
I have switched back to regular oil because I don't have as much expendable income as before with the price of gas and electricity going up. The brand I typically buy is Castrol. I used to buy Mobil 1 synthetic. Of course 5-20.
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deandorsey
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i have about 130k on my 07 SI-
i use amsoil 0w30 'signature series', change the oil every 30k with a filter change in between.
i have sent the oil out for analysis and it has always come back fine.
i have done this with all my vehicles and have never had one problem.
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bwilliam13
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Re-read my comments. I never stated that Mobil 1 anything was a synthetic blend.
To the original poster, here's what I think in a nutshell. Synthetic blend is a rip-off, because it's really conventional oil with up to 30% synthetic blended in. You're better off money-wise and frequency of oil change by going full synthetic.
See the following. I didn't write it. I simply searched for "synthetic vs conventional oil". Google is your friend.
http://ezinearticles.com/?What-Is-The-Difference-Between-Synthetic-Oil-And-Conventional-Motor-Oil?&id=293637
http://www.automedia.com/Synthetic_or_Conventional_Oil/ccr20050201so/1
http://ezinearticles.com/?Synthetic-Blend-Motor-Oil---A-Good-Compromise&id=1439233
Draw your own conclusion. You'll find many references on the 'net to Mobil 1's previous claims of 30k mile intervals and increased mileage for their 0w30 economy (green label) brands. For what it's worth, Amsoil makes similar claims. Even running Amsoil I don't go over 13k miles between changes. That's just me.
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6SPDTL
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Chill, all you have to check on oil is if it has the petroluem institute seal and if says "for gasoline engines" This certifies that the oil meets a basic standard for protection for any engine. It doesnt matter if its synthetic, a blend or whatever. Some synthetic oils can provide better low temperature and high temperature performance than conventional oils under lab conditions. If your cooling system is functional those differences are moot. SO there you get it there is no magic super oil, as long as you change it at the frequency that the manufacturer tells you, its the correct viscosity and it has the petroleum institute seal of approval it should protect your engine. The fact that its sythetic a blend or "natural" makes absolutely no difference. The difference between expensive and cheaper oil is just price. If your car has a ton of miles and the rings are a little worn, heavier oil can help it maintain better compression, if that is true, its probably time to look for a new car if you can afford it.
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P54
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6SPDTL wrote:
Chill, all you have to check on oil is if it has the petroluem institute seal and if says "for gasoline engines" This certifies that the oil meets a basic standard for protection for any engine. It doesnt matter if its synthetic, a blend or whatever. Some synthetic oils can provide better low temperature and high temperature performance than conventional oils under lab conditions. If your cooling system is functional those differences are moot. SO there you get it there is no magic super oil, as long as you change it at the frequency that the manufacturer tells you, its the correct viscosity and it has the petroleum institute seal of approval it should protect your engine. The fact that its sythetic a blend or "natural" makes absolutely no difference. The difference between expensive and cheaper oil is just price. If your car has a ton of miles and the rings are a little worn, heavier oil can help it maintain better compression, if that is true, its probably time to look for a new car if you can afford it.
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Before making such a simplified view on oil differences let us compare your statement with this statement: The difference between expensive and cheaper cars is just price. Would you agree to that?
There is a vast difference between oils even if they meet the same standard. Some oils "meet" others "exceed". Same standard for lawn mower engine running 3600 rpm and an engine capable of 8000rpm+. How is your engine compared to the spec engine they used when making the test? Different brands of oil are different even though they meet the same spec. Manufacturers of oil use different additive packages and it is the additive packages that can cost a lot of money. Standards are based on certain tests on certain engines and rpms. etc. that can be far from what your engine is capable of or conditions you are running under. Compare it to blood, we all have blood, however use the wrong type and you are in trouble.
The very fact that they keep improving the standards shows that the demand on oil in modern engines get tougher and tougher. Some engines are more modern or high tech than others and/or current standard tests are based on and can benefit from a high end oil that "exceed" before a new standard has been put in effect.
Watch the label on certain brands: "New formula", "Less sludge", "Less wear", "More cleaning agents" and so on. Well they all passed the standard test of approval at one time, yet were inferior to other brands "exceeding" the same test standards, and because of new stricter standards they had to upgrade their oil and with bold letters on the labels tell everybody: "Our oil used to have a problem(despite meeting the test standard), however we have improved it."
Many car manufacturers go beyond the standard test and demand of oil companies to make an oil to meet their standards. The oil then will say on the bottle it meet or exceed the standards from Ford ,GM, Volvo, VW,MB etc. Even Acura approved only one oil for the RDX. A lot of engine problems, especially on turbo engines, could have been avoided using the best oils, which usually cost more.
To summarize; some oils "meet" the MINIMUM requirements of the test standard, others "exceed" and when the standards get tougher the oil that "exceed" will pass without changing the formula while the cheaper oil will have to be updated. The better the oil the better for the engine.
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6SPDTL
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Just for your info, a good friend of mine is an oil engineer with Castrol. All engine oils manufactured to the "for gasoline engines" standard protect an engine the same. The standard has evolved throught the years as denoted by the S designation, SG, SH etc. Unless you are using oil that was manufactured 5 years ago, all oil with the "for gasoline engines" designation will meet the current standard. The current standard meets all service requirements for all manufacturers for all vehicles that are sold for street use. Unless you are driving a formula one car or a top fuel drag racer you are safe with the cheapest oil with the API certification on it. The reason they sell expensive or cheap oil is because the regular consumer is ignorant about the matter. Its the same idiocy as pouring premium fuel in an engine rated for regular, dummies will buy just because it says "premium". In regards to S designation, the latest designations have had little to do with protection, they have been related to fuel efficiency. And to answer your question about if an oil can be superior, I already answered it, yes it can be superior in the lab particularly on low temperature flow and the ultimate resistance to heat breakdown. Ergo, if your cooling system is working appropriately and you are running your engine with the temperature gauge peeged in the red zone, regular "normal" oil will work just fine since its temperature parameters are hundreds of degrees higher than the normal operating temperature of the engine. If you are planning to run your engine without coolant on a regular basis, by all means you should spend that extra cash.
BTW, in 30 years of owning Hondas I have never had a single one ever overheat despite running them in deserts, the tropics, mountains, europe and all over the USA, so I would say you are pretty darned safe.
Finally essentially all engine oil manufacturesrs buy their stock oil from the same manufacturer, the only magic their oils have is the additive blend. The synthetic "blends" use normal stock oil as the bulk of the oil, full synthetics use non natural waxes and oils as stock but the synthetic base is also shared among most synthetic oils. So if it says full synthetic the stock of the oil (about 90% by volume) all comes from the same place.
"An educated consumer never plays the fool"
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P54
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6SPDTL wrote:
Just for your info, a good friend of mine is an oil engineer with Castrol. All engine oils manufactured to the "for gasoline engines" standard protect an engine the same. The standard has evolved throught the years as denoted by the S designation, SG, SH etc. Unless you are using oil that was manufactured 5 years ago, all oil with the "for gasoline engines" designation will meet the current standard. The current standard meets all service requirements for all manufacturers for all vehicles that are sold for street use. Unless you are driving a formula one car or a top fuel drag racer you are safe with the cheapest oil with the API certification on it. The reason they sell expensive or cheap oil is because the regular consumer is ignorant about the matter. Its the same idiocy as pouring premium fuel in an engine rated for regular, dummies will buy just because it says "premium". In regards to S designation, the latest designations have had little to do with protection, they have been related to fuel efficiency. And to answer your question about if an oil can be superior, I already answered it, yes it can be superior in the lab particularly on low temperature flow and the ultimate resistance to heat breakdown. Ergo, if your cooling system is working appropriately and you are running your engine with the temperature gauge peeged in the red zone, regular "normal" oil will work just fine since its temperature parameters are hundreds of degrees higher than the normal operating temperature of the engine. If you are planning to run your engine without coolant on a regular basis, by all means you should spend that extra cash.
BTW, in 30 years of owning Hondas I have never had a single one ever overheat despite running them in deserts, the tropics, mountains, europe and all over the USA, so I would say you are pretty darned safe.
Finally essentially all engine oil manufacturesrs buy their stock oil from the same manufacturer, the only magic their oils have is the additive blend. The synthetic "blends" use normal stock oil as the bulk of the oil, full synthetics use non natural waxes and oils as stock but the synthetic base is also shared among most synthetic oils. So if it says full synthetic the stock of the oil (about 90% by volume) all comes from the same place.
"An educated consumer never plays the fool"
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Yes, some brands are supported by BP (Castrol?), some Shell (Pennzoil?) and some Exxon/Mobil. Yet Castrol and others buy additive packages (or used to ?) from Exxon. It is not about meeting standards that are "good" enough, it is about an oil being better than meeting the minimum standard. Long term that can pay off, depending what engine you have.
Some oils are (or used to be) refined in a different way than others and would cause more problems. By using different brands you might experience oil consumption with certain brands and no or less consumption in other brands, even though "meeting" standards. Some oils leave brown color inside engine, others do not. Some oils handle 8000+rpm and extreme high piston speed better than others. Some oils are used up after 3000 miles, 5000 miles and others can go 10-15-20000 miles and still be in shape. Synthetics are superior, however there are true synthetics (expensive) and other cheaper variations of synthetics.
We are not talking about superior in the lab, however in actual use. Check around with repair shops that have been around for a long time, they can attest to the fact that the inside of the engine looks different depending of oils being used.
That you had no issues in 30 years with Honda is a tribute to Honda engineering.
Regarding your quote "The reason they sell expensive or cheap oil is because the regular consumer is ignorant about the matter. Its the same idiocy as pouring premium fuel in an engine rated for regular, dummies will buy just because it says "premium".
Strong words, however small engines and boat people have had a lot of issues with ETHANOL in fuel and by using premium they are avoiding the problems as premium many(all?) places are ethanol free. Do you think it is out of ignorance that expensive oils are factory fill in many exotic cars and that Acura approves of one certain oil in their RDX (or used to?)? Maybe I can use your quote ""An educated consumer never plays the fool".
How come a sales man of a certain known oil brand running his sales route with his VW turbo diesel experienced "vibration in steering wheel" at certain rpm with the oil he sold and when switching to a different brand the "vibration" went away. He ended up using a different oil in his car than the oil he sold. Both oils met the same standards.
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garoto628
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They way I see it, if you are someone who takes great care of your engine, you may be okay with conventional oil. However, most consumers are not as meticulous as say, I am, with changing the engine's oil, so they are definitely safer with a synthetic over the life of a car. The synthetic will take care of your engine while the car's owner forgets to either change the oil, changes the oil at wrong intervals, or doesn't change it more than twice per 50,000 miles.
My problem with synthetics is that they state you can leave it in there for 15,000 miles, but there's no way in earth I would leave it for that long. I would probably leave it in there for 5000 miles, if that. For that reason, synthetic would cost me dearly, and I'd probably hardly benefit because I change my oil every 3000 miles anyway. Even Honda's user's manual states that you may use synthetic, but you have to use the same grade that your car requires, and they ask that you still replace the oil at the regular oil intervals the MMS asks for.
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P54
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garoto628 wrote:
They way I see it, if you are someone who takes great care of your engine, you may be okay with conventional oil. However, most consumers are not as meticulous as say, I am, with changing the engine's oil, so they are definitely safer with a synthetic over the life of a car. The synthetic will take care of your engine while the car's owner forgets to either change the oil, changes the oil at wrong intervals, or doesn't change it more than twice per 50,000 miles.
My problem with synthetics is that they state you can leave it in there for 15,000 miles, but there's no way in earth I would leave it for that long. I would probably leave it in there for 5000 miles, if that. For that reason, synthetic would cost me dearly, and I'd probably hardly benefit because I change my oil every 3000 miles anyway. Even Honda's user's manual states that you may use synthetic, but you have to use the same grade that your car requires, and they ask that you still replace the oil at the regular oil intervals the MMS asks for.
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How come you have problems with one statement (15000 miles) and not other statements (like approval ratings). If you change oil every 3000 miles you will have no problems with a high quality conventional oil, however in no way was that oil ever intended or tested to rev beyond 8K rpm. and to give the best protection at those elevated piston speeds. A high end fully synthetic will have no problem with 15K miles and engine would still be clean inside. Study about oil and you'll find that the way you see it will change.
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