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danielgr
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Just don't get it.
Right after (still during) the crisis, right after Ito takes the lead of Honda, first widely mediatized public appearance of Ito, foreign press Q&A.
Someone asks from the floor:
- When will Americans see a performance car sold in the US again?
Ito (laughing first) answers:
- Having lost that kind of cars in the lineup (NSX, S2000) makes me very sad. Specially, since I was deeply involved in the development of the 1st gen NSX.
When we were developing the first NSX, there were many "big power sports cars" around; our idea was that "ours had to be something different", get a "different identity".
Indeed, what makes a sport car special is not power, but power to weight ratio.
For us the 3.0 DOHC VTEC powerplant was fixed from the beginning, so we had to take down the weight in order to achieve the exceptional dynamic performance of the 1st gen NSX. Which is why we made such a great effort to bring up the first production all aluminium body. As a result, the car was not only fast, but also easy to handle and also, got great fuel economy.
Even now, we remained persuaded that is the direction Honda sport cars should be pursuing.
- So, our next sports car project would follow those lines, myself I really want to build a new sports car. Unfortunately as you know, we just had to slash the development of our previous effort. But if we decide to build a new one, there will be two key requirements:
1) Because the economy is so so bad, we are really struggling to generate any profit at all (that FY09Q4 ended up being Honda's worse ever, and they did lose a lot of money putting things in order), so management has really little freedom to do anything about it. So the first thing is "we need some cash", and we hope that people's purchasing power will raise and they'll buy our products so that we can get it.
2) Nowadays, any kind of car has to take in account the environment, and that will have to be an important part of our next supercar. Right now, we are just in the verge on developing such green technologies. For example, the hybrid system for larger cars, FC-EV, etc.
- So whenever we have developed the required technologies and cash is flowing again, I would definitely like to see a new sports car to showcase such new technologies. Such a sport car won't be anything similar to what Toyota showed today (the LFA, which in another public quote he called a "dinosaur"), but one that will be both environmental friendly and high performance. I'll definitely (I'll love to) do that.
-------------------------------------------------------
So, in case you missed it:
- Honda is generating quite a fair amount of cash, and just revised their yearly profit forecast for FY10 despite a worse case scenario currency exchange ratio (condition 1 check).
- Honda's plug-in hybrid and EV are testing on the roads (link1, link2, link3), scheduled to be released in about a year (condition 2 check).
So, what exactly has Ito changed his mind about??? It seems nothing so far.
He said he was said about the NSX demise, that they would make a sports car whenever they had developed the required green techs and they had cash. Now guys, be careful with the rest of the answer, because such a car won't be a GT-R, nor an LFA, nor a big power car, but a car that is environmental friendly and showcase Honda's environmental technologies in an easy to drive yet high performance package.
Bottom line; he is just doing what he has always said he would do. Some people just prefer to rant and rant and rant and believe stupid media reports and rumours that make them anger. It's for sure a much more comfortable position than trying to actually listen what those having anything to say are actually saying.
PS: I told you at the time the world was moving this way, and if anything, Honda was taking the lead again and Ito the people behind him being "visionary". Now you just have to check what has happened since he made those comments, and what are the luxury and performance brands investing their coins in.
PS2: Translation of Ito's answer is mine, though there was also an interpreter I prefer more literal translations even if the resulting English isn't that polished.
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VTECRacer
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Facts, logic, and common sense, as usual. Thank you!
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WingZ
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Hey Daniel the 3.0 set from the start isn't true as wasn't the first NSX engine a 2.0?
Thanks for the article as it's the first I'd seen of it. From what your giving us are we should expect another V6 basically but using the lastest tech and from Acura itself we've heard the car will be using tech from the HSV.
Since the body itself was tech and the new car will be using the SHAWD from that car wouldn't the most sense be to actually use the HSV?
I remember reading that Fuqui saying that the V10 would get better fuel economy than the NSX V6. Wouldn't best case be a "better" V10 as it were? I know just wishful thinking but I fell in love with the Honda V10 engine note and am just rationalizing.
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danielgr
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WingZ wrote:
Hey Daniel the 3.0 set from the start isn't true as wasn't the first NSX engine a 2.0?
Thanks for the article as it's the first I'd seen of it. From what your giving us are we should expect another V6 basically but using the lastest tech and from Acura itself we've heard the car will be using tech from the HSV.
Since the body itself was tech and the new car will be using the SHAWD from that car wouldn't the most sense be to actually use the HSV?
I remember reading that Fuqui saying that the V10 would get better fuel economy than the NSX V6. Wouldn't best case be a "better" V10 as it were? I know just wishful thinking but I fell in love with the Honda V10 engine note and am just rationalizing. |
As for the 3.0L I re-listened to that portion and he did not mention the displacement. Word by word he said " the engine was given to us (fixed), which was our best engine at the time, the V6 DOHC VTEC engine". Sorry about that, though if the engine was a given I believe it wouldn't change going into production (otherwise it wouldn't have been something "fixed"). Besides, I don't think Honda has ever developed a 2.0L V6 engine for a production car, and a 2.0L at the time would have never gone pass 200Hp which would have been unsuitable for a supercar since the beginning.
So I'm pretty sure he would have been talking about the 3.0L that debuted on the NSX.
PS: I don't have any particular thought on what will the next Honda supercar to the table, I'm just pretty sure that it will have some kind of hybrid/ev into it. That is the tech of the future, and that's what it needs to showcase regardless of what TOV dinausaurs think. Honda is not a charity for die hard old school performance enthusiasts, it is a 60+ years old mobility company that intends to remain in business for at least that many more years.
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P54
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danielgr wrote:
WingZ wrote:
Hey Daniel the 3.0 set from the start isn't true as wasn't the first NSX engine a 2.0?
Thanks for the article as it's the first I'd seen of it. From what your giving us are we should expect another V6 basically but using the lastest tech and from Acura itself we've heard the car will be using tech from the HSV.
Since the body itself was tech and the new car will be using the SHAWD from that car wouldn't the most sense be to actually use the HSV?
I remember reading that Fuqui saying that the V10 would get better fuel economy than the NSX V6. Wouldn't best case be a "better" V10 as it were? I know just wishful thinking but I fell in love with the Honda V10 engine note and am just rationalizing. |
As for the 3.0L I re-listened to that portion and he did not mention the displacement. Word by word he said " the engine was given to us (fixed), which was our best engine at the time, the V6 DOHC VTEC engine". Sorry about that, though if the engine was a given I believe it wouldn't change going into production (otherwise it wouldn't have been something "fixed"). Besides, I don't think Honda has ever developed a 2.0L V6 engine for a production car, and a 2.0L at the time would have never gone pass 200Hp which would have been unsuitable for a supercar since the beginning.
So I'm pretty sure he would have been talking about the 3.0L that debuted on the NSX.
PS: I don't have any particular thought on what will the next Honda supercar to the table, I'm just pretty sure that it will have some kind of hybrid/ev into it. That is the tech of the future, and that's what it needs to showcase regardless of what TOV dinausaurs think. Honda is not a charity for die hard old school performance enthusiasts, it is a 60+ years old mobility company that intends to remain in business for at least that many more years.
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The first Legend had a 2.0L V6 NA and Turbo as engine option in Japan. (The NA had about 145 hp and the turbo about 190hp). Research and developments on this engine led to the 3.0 L NSX engine.
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montechester
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Daniel, well put remarks and thank you for your efforts. You are an asset to this community.
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danielgr
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P54 wrote:
danielgr wrote:
WingZ wrote:
Hey Daniel the 3.0 set from the start isn't true as wasn't the first NSX engine a 2.0?
Thanks for the article as it's the first I'd seen of it. From what your giving us are we should expect another V6 basically but using the lastest tech and from Acura itself we've heard the car will be using tech from the HSV.
Since the body itself was tech and the new car will be using the SHAWD from that car wouldn't the most sense be to actually use the HSV?
I remember reading that Fuqui saying that the V10 would get better fuel economy than the NSX V6. Wouldn't best case be a "better" V10 as it were? I know just wishful thinking but I fell in love with the Honda V10 engine note and am just rationalizing. |
As for the 3.0L I re-listened to that portion and he did not mention the displacement. Word by word he said " the engine was given to us (fixed), which was our best engine at the time, the V6 DOHC VTEC engine". Sorry about that, though if the engine was a given I believe it wouldn't change going into production (otherwise it wouldn't have been something "fixed"). Besides, I don't think Honda has ever developed a 2.0L V6 engine for a production car, and a 2.0L at the time would have never gone pass 200Hp which would have been unsuitable for a supercar since the beginning.
So I'm pretty sure he would have been talking about the 3.0L that debuted on the NSX.
PS: I don't have any particular thought on what will the next Honda supercar to the table, I'm just pretty sure that it will have some kind of hybrid/ev into it. That is the tech of the future, and that's what it needs to showcase regardless of what TOV dinausaurs think. Honda is not a charity for die hard old school performance enthusiasts, it is a 60+ years old mobility company that intends to remain in business for at least that many more years.
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- a 2.0L NA engine (145Hp)
- and a 2.5L engine (165Hp)
Now, I still stand by what I said, none of those engines can't be related to the block Ito was talking about (their best engine, which was fixed for their new supercar, and was a DOHC V6 VTEC engine). Actually, by the time the NSX had arrived those had been taken already to 2.7L and 3.2L displacement following their SOHC road forever ... (unless I missed something, the only production DOHC V6 Honda has ever made is the NSX's).
PS: I couldn't find any reference to a Turbo V6 Legend on my own. Do you have a link or something?
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Blue_Sky_surfer
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I think you need to go to auto-archive, then look for 1st gen. Legend and you'll find it there.
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P54
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Interesting that the new V6Turbo race engine from Honda are based on existing V6 engines. Speaks volumes of their basic design for such an "old" engine.
"Honda introduces new 2.8L turbo V6 for 2011 LMP2 race cars"
"The new LMP2 engine, based on Honda's global V6 engine, is a 2.8-liter, twin-turbo variant"
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/11/honda-introduces-new-2-8l-turbo-v6-for-2011-lmp2-race-cars/
I don't know if the following engine is based on same engine or a new separate design? V-angle looks wider.
"Honda to supply new 2.4L turbo V6 for 2012 Indycars"
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/09/honda-to-supply-new-2-4l-turbo-v6-for-2012-indycars/
Could any of those engines be part of the next "sports car", of course in a detuned version?
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danielgr
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Blue_Sky_surfer wrote:
I think you need to go to auto-archive, then look for 1st gen. Legend and you'll find it there.
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Nothing is inside there, which is why I'm asking.
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Blue_Sky_surfer
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Daniel: link.
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thepowerofhonda
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danielgr wrote:
Honda is not a charity for die hard old school performance enthusiasts
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And the consumer is not a charity for a company that "needs cash" either. The company needs to give the consumer the product that the CONSUMER demands. That's how free enterprise works. Not TELL the consumer "You are old dinosaurs and we are smart and you are stupid and THIS is what you are going to buy from us whether you like it or not. That's why people leave and go to others to buy their goods.
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JeffX
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Blue_Sky_surfer wrote:
Daniel: link.
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Here's the direct link to the model that had the turbo 2.0L.
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-archive/legend/4door/1990/line_up.html#v6ti
I'm surprised this is the first time Daniel has ever heard of it. It's been discussed in many past threads here.
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