vincenzo
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It seems that Honda puts a bigger engine in the Civic Si for a reason.
Honda wants to lure the American users who can drive only automatics.
Let's look at Toyota.
The Celica GT-S was a fantastic small car with a high-revving Yamaha's engine: 1.8l 190hp.
It was available with an automatic transmission - what a disaster. It was even slower than the 140hp Celica GT with a manual transmission.
Now, Toyota sells the tC with the 2.5l Camry engine, and everybody is happy.
Opinions about the Celica GT-S:
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/celica/2003/consumerreview.1.100169598.date.html
After explaining problems to Toyota Rep, he said "Celica GTS with an Automatic trans is a "dog". It performs exactly like you described, there's nothing mechanically wrong with the car." He said "You signed for the car, you own it." I was flabbergasted. I asked if Toyota planned to continue to manufacture this car he said yes. You can't rely on any power when accelerating from a stop. I floor the gas pedal at a stop, I get no acceleration. DO NOT BUY THIS DOG!!
This car takes to long to get going. When you punch the gas pedal, nothing happens until about 5 seconds later (when you are at 7000 rpm). I know that is sort of the point, and it does corner great and can accelerate through turns great, but I still feel that it makes the car feel underpowered and sluggish off the line. At least a 6cyl Grand Am can bark the tires when you floor it. Apparently a manual transmission in this car is a must since you probably have to rev it up to about 7,000 rpm and drop the clutch to have a good start off the line. I'm just disappointed because I wanted something sporty, but this car just doesn't have any real oomph.
This car is really pathetic when it comes to 0-60 speed. It is so slow off the line if feels like you might be in reverse. A 4 cyl just doesn't cut it and while it does pick up after you hit 15mph or so, it is embarrasing because the 96 Geo Metro that was next to you at the light is already down the street hanging a left. Throw a V-6 in this and another 50 horsepower and Toyota might be on to something. For now, save your money for a 300ZX or the new Mazada RX-8 and get a real car.
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Honda-D
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May be Honda is going with DSG a la GTI?
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DCR
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No way...will not happen.
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FAL
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I think you're right about their rationale. This new Si will be for chicks and metrosexuals, sabotaging the chassis and engine character with a cheaper execution so they can add leather, bluetooth, etc. as standard so they sell more at the same, or nearly the same, price point. I wonder if they'll even offer a manual at all; the Corolla XRS has one listed but they never seem to actually have any to buy.
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Chris David
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You're probably right, though I don't think it's really a bad thing. I think the current Si could use more torque, or lose a few hundred pounds (not likely). You kind of lost me after the first two sentences, though I generally approve of dumping on any Toyota:)
BTW, manuals are pretty rare in Japan as well.
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MasterOfDaDomain
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The title should be "the next Civic Si will offer an automatic option".
The Si should stay MT only.
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DCR
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Mendel has said it before...the Si isn't going to get an auto.
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giltibo
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Indeed. Not gonna happen.
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garoto628
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This is not going to happen. That's why you have an EX. For all this people trying to find "rationales", think about the logic in that one.
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Aleks
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An Si with a twin clutch option would boost SI sales for sure and improve performance. I don't see why Honda wouldn't consider that option. This is new tech and a version it comes in cars like the lowly Ford Fiesta. Honda used to lead the way now they seem to be lagging with new tech...
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jbkingjr
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Aleks wrote:
An Si with a twin clutch option would boost SI sales for sure and improve performance. I don't see why Honda wouldn't consider that option. This is new tech and a version it comes in cars like the lowly Ford Fiesta. Honda used to lead the way now they seem to be lagging with new tech...
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That Ford Fiesta you mentioned doesn't have a way to manually shift, which basically means you wouldn't be able to reach the powerband of the Si.
Look, if you guys want to drive an Si so bad, go out and learn how to drive manual. Why you want to drive it in the first place since it has never been the car you want (an auto obviously, possibly among other things) is beyond me. The Si is not for someone disinterested in the engaging experience driving manual gives you--regardless of your reason for not wanting it. In other words, the Si and manuals are for people that love to drive and will appreciate the driving experience it gives and if you want an auto (especially one you can't even shift manually), you obviously don't and won't. At least not enough. It is a manual transmission that allows you to unlock the Si's true potential and if you're not capable of extracting what the Si has over the other Civics, why do you want to drive it? The name? The character of the car is what has made its name what it is. Why change it to fit your wants? There are plenty of automatic poser-mobiles you can go out and buy. I would rather the Si not become one of them. If you're not looking for a poser-mobile and want a quick automatic cruiser, buy a TSX, Accord or something else. In any case, the Si is not for you.
BTW, the only competitor out of 4 to the Si that even offers an auto is the GTI. From what I hear, it's both more expensive and less reliable. Yeah... so behind...
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Torque
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jbkingjr wrote:
Aleks wrote:
An Si with a twin clutch option would boost SI sales for sure and improve performance. I don't see why Honda wouldn't consider that option. This is new tech and a version it comes in cars like the lowly Ford Fiesta. Honda used to lead the way now they seem to be lagging with new tech...
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That Ford Fiesta you mentioned doesn't have a way to manually shift, which basically means you wouldn't be able to reach the powerband of the Si.
Look, if you guys want to drive an Si so bad, go out and learn how to drive manual. Why you want to drive it in the first place since it has never been the car you want (an auto obviously, possibly among other things) is beyond me. The Si is not for someone disinterested in the engaging experience driving manual gives you--regardless of your reason for not wanting it. In other words, the Si and manuals are for people that love to drive and will appreciate the driving experience it gives and if you want an auto (especially one you can't even shift manually), you obviously don't and won't. At least not enough. It is a manual transmission that allows you to unlock the Si's true potential and if you're not capable of extracting what the Si has over the other Civics, why do you want to drive it? The name? The character of the car is what has made its name what it is. Why change it to fit your wants? There are plenty of automatic poser-mobiles you can go out and buy. I would rather the Si not become one of them. If you're not looking for a poser-mobile and want a quick automatic cruiser, buy a TSX, Accord or something else. In any case, the Si is not for you.
BTW, the only competitor out of 4 to the Si that even offers an auto is the GTI. From what I hear, it's both more expensive and less reliable. Yeah... so behind...
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So damn right. If the posers out there are clamoring for an automatic option on the Si they should go somewhere else. Learn to drive stick shift and use both feet when you drive instead of endlessly waiting for a slush box version. To take the manual away from the Si would kill it's character. The Si's engine is meant to be revved high by the driver. That's where the driver involvement comes in. Every day I get into my RSX-S I love the slick, quick shifts of the 6 speed manual. You get to drive the car the way you want to, whenever and however.
The funniest part about the people bitching and moaning about getting an auto tranny on the Si is that they drive a slush box. If you want to be lazy, get something else. Leave the Si to people like me who actually appreciate rowing their own gears.
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Aleks
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All I was saying is Honda should add a twin clutch OPTION along side manual. Not a standard slush box... It's new technology and it's the future of auto transmissions. More and more cars will have this setup. I actually prefer the DSG GTI over the manual. EVO MR's SST transmission has proven very reliable so I'm sure something made by Honda would not have the VW issues.
I don't really see how something like that would kill the Si's character if the rest of the car remained the same.
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owequitit
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I wouldn't have as much of a problem with a true SMG type setup at least being available. It is afterall, truely descended racing technology.
Of course, since an SMG doesn't have any greater powerloss than a regular manual transmission, then the clamoring for more torque and less redline is also ludicrous.
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Road Race
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As an owner of 4 generations of SI's, I really don't have a problem with the automatic option. BMW, VW, all have automatics of one sort or the other. The TSX has an automatic, why not the SI.
My dealer would love an Automatic option given that this would give him a distinctive premium civic option. It would not be my choice, but if it sells more Honda's great.
It reminds me of the prior discussions that indicated that an Si had to be a 2 door. I love my 4 door, and probably couldn't have justified a 2 door for my present circumstance. If an Automatic option tripled Si sales, more power to Honda.
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nb0
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Auto Si is the answer for Honda because it will boost Si sales. Honda does not listen to 1% of enthusiast. The trend is larger engines with more torque. Love it or leave it.
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AyJay
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I hope the next Si does offer a version of the paddle-shift auto found in the TSX. I think having the option for the MT and paddle shift sounds ideal.
It seems to me that alot of people want to act as if the Civic Si is some sort of sports car. IMO those same people are just jerking themselves. Some of us enthusiasts with wives (who don't like MT) and kids on the way are looking for a fun daily driver.
If I want to drive a pure sports car I will park the Civic and drive my track/autoX prepped S2000. I want a great, inexpensive, and fun daily driver ... wait, doesn't that pretty much sound like the original intention of the civic? Build it Honda!
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