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TOV Forums > Optimizing Fuel Economy > > Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data

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danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-20-2010 21:35
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Call_In wrote:
danielgr wrote:
Call_In wrote:
Daniel,
Just now getting around to adding all of my existing data to this new database. I had been using fuelly.com before.
User Name - Call_In
Number - 411756
Model - 2010 Insight Ex

DC Suburbs/Foothills

Thanks for getting it done and welcome to the top of TOV's real world FE database !

(btw, did you know you could use csv -comma separated values- to import/export your data to/from spritmonitor?)



Daniel,
I tried using a csv file but when i tried to import the file I had problems. The data was arranged into columns and they were not in the order that spritmonitor expected them to be in so it was just a mess. Copying those fillups from a csv really wasn't that bad.
Also, I did not read all the posts before I put up my information, sorry. For location I would fit in best as a Small City, if you could update that for me I would appreciate it.

Ah... too bad you had to input it all again manually.

The trick I did when uploading my data at the begining was :
1) Input a random fueling in spritmonitor.
2) Export spritmonitor data in csv in order to get the right column format / template
3) Copy my own data into the template using the right columns using something like Microsoft Excel.
4) Import the data back into spritmonitor.

It was really done in a few minutes.


PS: Thanks for your location info; I'll update it later today (JDM time)
jbkingjr
Profile for jbkingjr
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-20-2010 22:54
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Car - 2008 Civic Si Sedan, K20, 197hp
Environment: US, Small city
Vehicle Number: 418570
ezshift5
Profile for ezshift5
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-04-2010 09:24
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I appreciate your invitation (but feel I must respectfully decline)

I like almost all the 6-6's attributes (except the vague clutch), and the highway fuel numbers are stellar.......................

But data entry - as I view the FE task - is an odious tasking.

ez.....
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-05-2010 06:22
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ezshift5 wrote:
I appreciate your invitation (but feel I must respectfully decline)

I like almost all the 6-6's attributes (except the vague clutch), and the highway fuel numbers are stellar.......................

But data entry - as I view the FE task - is an odious tasking.

ez.....

Hey thanks for answering !!!

I just suggested it because it seemed that you had already writing down the whole thing, so thought that it wouldn't make a difference to put it on a website (you only need to write 2 numbers : gallons of fuel & odometer reading).

Keep on enjoying your nice car ! :) :)
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: TOV users Real World FE - question for alisperling    (Score: 1, Normal) 10-12-2010 11:38
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How did you get tanks of 45 mpg on your TL? All your tanks look pretty normal except one high 30s and one 45 mpg tank. Did you try hypermiling and find you were really good at it?

SC
Call_In
Profile for Call_In
Re: TOV users Real World FE - question for alisperling    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-03-2011 11:07
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So I finally got around to entering the last few months of data I had collected. Im glad to see that I am at least keeping up with Daniel through these cold winter months. Still have yet to get a single tank at worse the EPA HWY mileage.
Daniel, I guess I am going to have to step up my game, because if you ever pass me I will feel awful knowing that your driving can close what seems to be a very large gap in rated fuel efficiency.
AzNMaVbOi
Profile for AzNMaVbOi
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-03-2011 12:38
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I've lurked here for a really long time, and I mean really long (so long I don't even remember when I signed up). Anyway, saw this thread and thought it would be fun to participate:

1. Car:
2007 Honda S2000
F22C, 6MT
237 bhp
162 lb./ft.

2. Environment
United States
Big City

3. Spiritmonitor Vehicle No.
416876

I think that's all the info.
ezshift5
Profile for ezshift5
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-04-2011 09:04
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...not too much fuel efficiency activity here these days........

Here are some numbers from 7-27-2011 to 9-3-2011:

1960.7 divided by 65.407 gallons of 87.

Mn = 29,98.

Mixed 30/70 (city/hwy); summer blend fuel

TP:34; shift point 2500-3000 RPM.
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-20-2011 10:25
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AzNMaVbOi wrote:
I've lurked here for a really long time, and I mean really long (so long I don't even remember when I signed up). Anyway, saw this thread and thought it would be fun to participate:

1. Car:
2007 Honda S2000
F22C, 6MT
237 bhp
162 lb./ft.

2. Environment
United States
Big City

3. Spiritmonitor Vehicle No.
416876

I think that's all the info.


Woaw, forgive me for I never noticed you had added your information to the thread. There you go up online among TOV's 12 lonely people sharing their real world FE publicly !

Anyone else wants to join !!??!

Com'on guys... it's not that difficult :)
JP
Profile for JP
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - How to    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-22-2011 11:59
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Done... 490887.
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - How to    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-22-2011 12:48
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JP wrote:
Done... 490887.
thanks for your contribution but, what about the rest of the info?
cforez
Profile for cforez
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - How to    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-22-2011 22:59
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1992 Acura Integra GS-R, B17A1, 160 hp, 5MT
USA, BC
490945
cforez
Profile for cforez
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - How to    (Score: 1, Normal) 12-23-2011 07:33
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My other car doesn't meet the 5000 mi rule, but it would probably be another 6 months before it will.

2012 Honda Odyssey EX-L, J35, 248 hp, 5AT
USA, BC
490946
Hondasrule
Profile for Hondasrule
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-25-2012 19:22
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Hi danielgr,

I just created the Spritmonitor account:

2012 Honda Insight EX
98HP
LDA3 MF6
USA Big City
#500764

Thanks
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - How to    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-27-2012 09:54
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cforez wrote:
My other car doesn't meet the 5000 mi rule, but it would probably be another 6 months before it will.

2012 Honda Odyssey EX-L, J35, 248 hp, 5AT
USA, BC
490946


Well, there you go Cforez, your EX-L Ody went straight into 9th position just ahead of an S2000 and a G37 !!!

Now... it's really being hard to get two people with the same car in there !!!

:)

I'll add your Integra whenever you reach some decent mileage :P
cforez
Profile for cforez
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - How to    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-01-2012 14:18
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danielgr wrote:
I'll add your Integra whenever you reach some decent mileage :P


Whaaat? That's going to take another 20 years! haha
Hondasrule
Profile for Hondasrule
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-05-2012 23:37
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Daniel, if these types of posts should go on a different thread please let me know. I'm posting here because it seems appropriate but I could certainly be way off (if so I apologize).

I know my participation won't become visible on this chart until I reach 5,000 km but I still want to comment regarding my first results.

Today I filled up my tank for the first time after having done my initial fill-up and a trip A reset. And I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed in the trip computer's margin of error because it had a reading of 49.7 MPG for this tank.

As you can imagine, during the last few days my smile was so wide that if were sticking my face outside the window FE would have taken a horrible dive :)

...but I traveled 380 miles and used 8.069 gallons (according to the gas pump) which actually result in just 47.1 MPG - almost a 6% discrepancy and definitely more than I was expecting.

I don't know if I'll be able to do much better since I hypermiled as much as I could, I coasted like crazy, and barely used the mechanical brakes. The weather has been great, I've used the AC sparingly, and my wife still talks to me ;)

If this is how off it will be, I wish it could be user-compensated so I could tone-down the optimism.

I know it's still early to tell but if this is normal, it looks like your spot is quite safe :)

I love it and I can't think of anything else yielding this kind of combined MPG other than a Prius. But, I love Hondas and this one (even though I'm sure many here disagree with me on this) definitely feels like one.

....any comments?
Call_In
Profile for Call_In
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-06-2012 09:40
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I would say the first few fill ups will be disappointing until you train yourself to overlook the mpg readings. I always just subtract 3 mpg and normally that makes it nearly correct.
Don't think of the gauge as being 6% optimistic, think of the fact that the car is still giving you 8% better than EPA estimated HWY Mileage, and I doubt that you drove all highway miles.
Have fun trying out new things to get better mileage. I always use my windows vs the AC, I wear a coat in the car so I rarely use the heat as well.
One thing that I have found that kind of seems counter intuitive is that under light load conditions a lot of the time it is better to try to be in gas only mode instead of electric only. This will conserve your electric until you need it instead of using additional gas to recharge. I find the power diagram the best MID display to be on when you are still learning the car.
Hoped I helped, I will be checking the chart for when you do get enough mileage. Good Luck.
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-06-2012 22:57
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Well, maybe you should rather post them into the Insight forum as an owner sharing its experience and leave this thread for the database... Up to you!

Answering you:
1) Over one fill-up the variability of your calculated mileage can be huge with tiny differences on "how much you filled it up". To get a decent idea of how accurate your board computer is you need to track it for at least 5k miles. The one on my CR-Z is off by about 1% after 30k miles, while the one in our 2008 Fit is 7% off and the one in our pre-MMC European Insight was 2-3% off.

2) Your mileage really depends an awfull lot on driving environement, nor just in your driving skills. I did challenge you, but it was just for fun. Over 90% of my miles are highway, so my FE is obviously very good, and would be hard to beat if you find yourself doing more urban driving. Either way, it's nice to have you on-board, and personally my first "rival" is myself; just try to keep my own FE high while manageing my time in a reasonable way (one can always get better FE by simply driving slower).
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-06-2012 23:34
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Hondasrule wrote:
Daniel, if these types of posts should go on a different thread please let me know. I'm posting here because it seems appropriate but I could certainly be way off (if so I apologize).

I know my participation won't become visible on this chart until I reach 5,000 km but I still want to comment regarding my first results.

Today I filled up my tank for the first time after having done my initial fill-up and a trip A reset. And I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed in the trip computer's margin of error because it had a reading of 49.7 MPG for this tank.

As you can imagine, during the last few days my smile was so wide that if were sticking my face outside the window FE would have taken a horrible dive :)

...but I traveled 380 miles and used 8.069 gallons (according to the gas pump) which actually result in just 47.1 MPG - almost a 6% discrepancy and definitely more than I was expecting.

I don't know if I'll be able to do much better since I hypermiled as much as I could, I coasted like crazy, and barely used the mechanical brakes. The weather has been great, I've used the AC sparingly, and my wife still talks to me ;)

If this is how off it will be, I wish it could be user-compensated so I could tone-down the optimism.

I know it's still early to tell but if this is normal, it looks like your spot is quite safe :)

I love it and I can't think of anything else yielding this kind of combined MPG other than a Prius. But, I love Hondas and this one (even though I'm sure many here disagree with me on this) definitely feels like one.

....any comments?



if you think about it in gallons per mile, the trip computer was only off by a little over 1/1000th of a gallon per mile.

according to your fillup, you averaged 0.0212 gallons/mile while the trip computer was thinking it was only 0.0201 gallons/mile. Seems reasonably accurate to me. Over 380 miles, it adds up to a difference of ~0.4 gallons. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a +- factor of 0.2 gallons or more in terms of how much your car accepts each time you fill up (depending upon pumping rate, the angle at which your car rests while you fill it, air temp, the "click-off" sensitivity of the pump, etc.). Anyhow, it does seem odd that these trip computers seem to end up erring on the "optimistic side" if they're wrong, but at those are some things to consider.

In all the years I've checked against the total miles/gallons filled, I think I've only seen maybe one or two Honda or Acura be pessimistic. Most of them have been slightly to moderately optimistic though there have been two or three that were almost exactly right, consistently (by that I mean a difference in the 0.0 to 0.1mpg range).
Hondasrule
Profile for Hondasrule
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-07-2012 00:08
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Call_in, Thanks for your post.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disappointed with the car at all I just wish the trip computer was a bit more accurate. My driving is combined so I see it more as 12% better than EPA and that's great!

Thanks for the comments like trying to be in gas-only mode instead of electric-only. I was hoping that enough long coastings to a full stop would charge the battery sufficiently to assist more often, further reducing gas consumption.

I haven't run the AC much at all but I do run the fan always. Sometimes I turn the fan off at long stop lights to extend auto-stops over 90 seconds. I always drive with the windows up though.

I keep the charging gauge from bottoming out trying to avoid engaging the mechanical brakes.

Actually, I'm not that far off from danielgr's score. While yours seems crazy high to me (specially after my first rating) I might actually have a good shot at seriously challenging him for second place ;)

Hondasrule
Profile for Hondasrule
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-07-2012 00:34
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Jeff, thanks for your perspective; definitely useful. Looking forward to subsequent logs and the resulting information from those.

WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2012 11:17
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Hi Daniel,

I apologize for not paying much attention to this thread previously but I hope to make amends by adding my data to the database. But first I want to dig up the video I took of the mileage computer of my 1G Jazz VTEC which shows an FE of 4.8l/100km (about 20.8 km/l) over a total distance of 400+ km. Then I will open the account and post my info here to let you add it to the database.

On another matter, the Honda Jazz (Fit) Hybrid was launched in Malaysia today and when chatting with the LPL Nagamine-san, I mentioned this database and he was very impressed. He says Honda has a similar thing in the website but for japanese owners only. So for a site like us to start something like this, he is very impressed. The local Honda Malaysia head of sales and marketing was similar impressed and he even mentioned that he will talk to his people about starting something similar for Malaysia owners. Honda Malaysia now has the largest range of hybrid models for ASEAN, we have Insight, Jazz/Fit Hybrid and CR-Z. There is also a promise to add to this line-up so when the 9G Civic gets launched here later this year, I suspect they will quickly add the 9G HCH to the line-up as well.

If we can expand the database big enough, I plan to email this link to Nagamine-san. I suspect he might share it amongst his colleagues at Tochigi R&D. But right now, the database is not that big so I will wait and hope to see more people will participate.

*thumbs up*
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-20-2012 09:20
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WongKN wrote:
Hi Daniel,

I apologize for not paying much attention to this thread previously but I hope to make amends by adding my data to the database. But first I want to dig up the video I took of the mileage computer of my 1G Jazz VTEC which shows an FE of 4.8l/100km (about 20.8 km/l) over a total distance of 400+ km. Then I will open the account and post my info here to let you add it to the database.

On another matter, the Honda Jazz (Fit) Hybrid was launched in Malaysia today and when chatting with the LPL Nagamine-san, I mentioned this database and he was very impressed. He says Honda has a similar thing in the website but for japanese owners only. So for a site like us to start something like this, he is very impressed. The local Honda Malaysia head of sales and marketing was similar impressed and he even mentioned that he will talk to his people about starting something similar for Malaysia owners. Honda Malaysia now has the largest range of hybrid models for ASEAN, we have Insight, Jazz/Fit Hybrid and CR-Z. There is also a promise to add to this line-up so when the 9G Civic gets launched here later this year, I suspect they will quickly add the 9G HCH to the line-up as well.

If we can expand the database big enough, I plan to email this link to Nagamine-san. I suspect he might share it amongst his colleagues at Tochigi R&D. But right now, the database is not that big so I will wait and hope to see more people will participate.

*thumbs up*


Thanks Wong, and really, don't need to apologize. Whatever comes to this thread is welcome, and I was not expecting much from the beginning...

As for the Jazz/Fit FE over long distances, it is really not difficult to get the board computer to read above 20km/L (at least in Japanese driving environment). Here is a short video I took on our gen2 CVT after 240km (go-and-back to Narita Airport from Hitachi) at 24.9km/L. That said:
1) Having measured it over its lifetime I know the on board computer is off by 7% (vs. less than 1% on the CR-Z).
2) That's one trip with nearly perfect conditions, but lifetime mileage in our case is a more realistic 17.5km/L (real, not board computer).
Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-20-2012 12:12
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So, I can't help but notice that 2001 is the oldest car on the list. What kind of cars are you looking for here? Or generally, what is the ultimate purpose of the list?

Basically what I'm getting at is that my daily driver is a 1990; I could throw some data towards this list easily enough, but is the info from a 22 year old Honda really relevant? Let me know what you think, daniel.
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-20-2012 22:12
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Potenza wrote:
So, I can't help but notice that 2001 is the oldest car on the list. What kind of cars are you looking for here? Or generally, what is the ultimate purpose of the list?

Basically what I'm getting at is that my daily driver is a 1990; I could throw some data towards this list easily enough, but is the info from a 22 year old Honda really relevant? Let me know what you think, daniel.

The cars in the list are of those kind and interested enough to participate, nothing more, nothing less.

Personally I'm interested on all the cars we TOVers drive and a 22year car would be a welcome addition. That will enable some people to compare modern cars with the old ones, and how little FE has improved despite EPA figures sometimes saying the opposite for example.

Ultimately the goal is to draw a reliable line in terms of "FE talking" in the board, and bring in the actual data to provide some decent background into all kinds of FE claims and comparisons. One day-trips, one day commutes, I can get this or that on a HW trip, I'm not so interested. What I really care is "lifetime mpg" for everyone. Obviously though, as nice as comparing with other people driving different cars in different countries and environements may be, to me it's also nice being able to compare with myself, and whenever I change cars knowing what happened with my actual FE while fulfilling my actual needs.
Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2012 00:54
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Okay, I opened a Spiritmonitor account.

#505176
90 Prelude Si 4WS 2.1L 140hp
CS

But I'm a little fuzzy on some things.
1. Do I have to continually fill this out, tank after tank? I only ask this because you said it fills out the odometer automatically. That would lead me to believe it's a constant process.
2. It says the first tank should be "first fill," which you say does not factor in, and I don't understand that either. I know the miles on put on the tank as well as the amount to fill it, so isn't that precisely the info we're looking for?

Maybe I'm overthinking this all. I'm not sure what my odometer is, I'll have to check my car tomorrow. But I know I drove 346 miles on 12.981 gallons. Can I just put those numbers in and be done, or am I missing something?
Call_In
Profile for Call_In
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2012 08:51
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Potenza,
Yes, you will be filling this out constantly. I actually have an app for my android phone for Fuelly.com where I enter in pretty much the same data. Every couple of months I take that data and enter it into spritmonitor.
The database calculates miles driven by subtracting your last odometer reading from your current one. Since you do not have any info in yet there is no starting odometer reading to go off of. I would take your current odometer, subtract the 346 miles you drove off of that and enter that in for your first tank along with a placeholder number for gallons that wont matter. Then when you enter in your current odometer reading (346 mile later) and the 12.981 gallons of gas it will actually return a value. So you should have two fill ups in. I hope this made sense and I am interested in your numbers.
Congratulations on being able to hold onto a car that long, I wish I had had the brains to hold onto my '93 civic.

danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2012 10:24
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Potenza wrote:
Okay, I opened a Spiritmonitor account.

#505176
90 Prelude Si 4WS 2.1L 140hp
CS

But I'm a little fuzzy on some things.
1. Do I have to continually fill this out, tank after tank? I only ask this because you said it fills out the odometer automatically. That would lead me to believe it's a constant process.
2. It says the first tank should be "first fill," which you say does not factor in, and I don't understand that either. I know the miles on put on the tank as well as the amount to fill it, so isn't that precisely the info we're looking for?

Maybe I'm overthinking this all. I'm not sure what my odometer is, I'll have to check my car tomorrow. But I know I drove 346 miles on 12.981 gallons. Can I just put those numbers in and be done, or am I missing something?

Just in case you have not understood it from what CallIn wrote.
1) Yes, you have to keep writing down at least two pieces of info:
a) Your odometer (i.e. the total miles showing in your car; you don't need to bother about partial figures because they'll be automatically calculated whenever you enter your current total at the time of your gas fill-up).
b) The number of gallons you put in.

2) SpritMonitor assumes you "always fill up your tank" and then makes stats of all your fill-ups. Since the only way of knowing your FE precisely is between two fill-ups (the 12.9 gallons you just put in the tank are not the ones you used to drive those 346miles, but those that you'll use from now on), that's the best way of doing it.

I know some folks though that do not like filling-up the tank, and rather put little by little, often paying cash, and so on. In that case you will not get accurate stats on a fill-up per fill-up basis, but as far as TOV's database goes the average will still be correct after sufficient miles, so it doesn't matter.

PS: SpritMonitor has a mobile-version of their website that you can pin to the favorites of your smartphone if you prefer that way.
Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: TOV users Real World FE database - Data    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2012 20:47
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Call_In wrote:
Potenza,
Yes, you will be filling this out constantly. I actually have an app for my android phone for Fuelly.com where I enter in pretty much the same data. Every couple of months I take that data and enter it into spritmonitor.

"Constantly"... what a scary word! haha. I had no idea what I was getting myself into.

That said, what if I would miss one fill-up? Would that ruin the whole thing?

Anyway I put my first data in, and I should be adding another within just a day or so. Guess I need to start keeping a pen and paper in the car. (There is nothing smart about my phone, so that won't work! haha)
 
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