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Atomic Frog
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Okay, by now it seems clear the "enthusiasts" aren't exactly the most enamoured by this car's performance. (However, I'd still take this over the IS250 any day).
Judging by the various pictures in all the reviews, I wasn't too warm about the looks either. However, I met up with one on the road today....and it's a winner. I'm not sure why the difference in real life, but the back end looks very nice, better than the pix. The front end (which I almost hated in the pictures) actually looks really good. Put together, it's very well done. It definitely has more road presence than the old one.
I could see this thing selling well. Let's face it, the "enthusiasts" are a very small (though vocal) portion of the market. For the rest of the population, I'm betting it will have more than enough zoom, especially with its great looks.
Before you pass judgement, I highly recommend you actually go and see this thing in person first. I can't wait too get in and drive this thing and see what that's like...and I can't wait to see the new TL now.
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CarPhreakD
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Type-S or A-Spec please? I agree with you on the looks and the standard features. In fact, those were the things I was predicting would turn out well and it did- it's just the powertrain wasn't up to snuff in my views, and the suspension/steering feel.
It seems that most of the complaints from an enthusiast standpoint (besides those clamouring for a W-16 and RWD or something...) centered around the TSX is the suspension setup and the steering feel. Both of those things shouldn't be extremely difficult to fix and I'm hoping Acura offers up an option to improve these two items. Besides the diesel engine, I'm most curious about hints of another bigger engine coming down the pipeline.
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garoto628
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I think the deal with the TSX is as clear as it is obvious.(huh?)
Even if it doesn't say it, 2009 tsx, is really - 2009 TSX-Base.
Later, you'll see why it feels the way it feels. Because it is obvious something is planned for its future.
2009 TSX Type - S. I'm sure it will be some sort of a 220hp N/A I4 with a 6spd manual and/or 6spd auto? (the latter is a tough one).
Beefed up suspension and steering.
I believe the plans for a type-s on this current gen will not involve much more than that. Unfortunately, honda doesn't really make their type s's too much of a car, what they do, is soften up the Base well enough for a type-s to make sense.
For my tastes, all type-s' acuras that have been around should've always been base models, and the real type s's should've had more beef.
I think that what im getting to is that base models are not addressed toward enthusiasts - so this is a base model - why are people complaining about the car, its doing its intended purpose? A to B transportation with gadgetry.
Enthusiasts = Type-S
The problem is that all of this is being concluded by me by asuming there will be a type s. None of this makes sense unless you asume there will be one.
But I think thats a safe assumption, it really looks like there will be one. Evidence of it is what the Base tsx is offering.
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PearlBlueVTX
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Frog ... totally agree.
In fact, it's still on my short list of what I want at least in a sedan. And, I was watching TV last night - Acura was running some specific TSX ads for the 09s. Honestly, I thought it was good but maybe I'm biased and just really like the car.
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02MDX&05TSX
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meh. Seen it many times. Still don't like it. Looks puffy or something. But you're right, the back is not as offensive as the front. That Saturn grill will never fly with me.
I won't spend my money on something whose styling doesn't fit my tastes, and this new grille certainly doesn't fit my tastes. I still like the JDM Fit RS. That's more my speed. I'm looking for something more fuel efficient these days anyway...
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JeffX
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Type-S or A-Spec please? I agree with you on the looks and the standard features. In fact, those were the things I was predicting would turn out well and it did- it's just the powertrain wasn't up to snuff in my views, and the suspension/steering feel.
It seems that most of the complaints from an enthusiast standpoint (besides those clamouring for a W-16 and RWD or something...) centered around the TSX is the suspension setup and the steering feel. Both of those things shouldn't be extremely difficult to fix and I'm hoping Acura offers up an option to improve these two items. Besides the diesel engine, I'm most curious about hints of another bigger engine coming down the pipeline.
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actually I don't recall too many true TSX enthusiasts asking for ridiculous engine options, unless you count all the turbo/awd wishers. Most requests from people who might actually buy one were pretty reasonable - certainly within reason of Honda/Acura's abilities. Honda conveniently sidestepped even the reasonable calls.
The '09 TSX has a few flaws; some, such as the steering feel can be fixed rather easily, I think. But one of the biggest drawbacks is how the TSX has grown, and seemingly for no good reason. Ok, maybe it improves roominess in the case that you have 3 passengers riding in the back, but otherwise it just makes the car heavier and more ponderous.
From a styling perspective, I think Acura succeeded in making it look more substantial, but one thing I can't warm up to is the fact that it's basically a 3 box design and it looks like somebody stuck the wrong sized box on the front of the car. There's a very obvious disagreement between the beltline and the hoodline.
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CivicB18
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Jeff wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Type-S or A-Spec please? I agree with you on the looks and the standard features. In fact, those were the things I was predicting would turn out well and it did- it's just the powertrain wasn't up to snuff in my views, and the suspension/steering feel.
It seems that most of the complaints from an enthusiast standpoint (besides those clamouring for a W-16 and RWD or something...) centered around the TSX is the suspension setup and the steering feel. Both of those things shouldn't be extremely difficult to fix and I'm hoping Acura offers up an option to improve these two items. Besides the diesel engine, I'm most curious about hints of another bigger engine coming down the pipeline.
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actually I don't recall too many true TSX enthusiasts asking for ridiculous engine options, unless you count all the turbo/awd wishers. Most requests from people who might actually buy one were pretty reasonable - certainly within reason of Honda/Acura's abilities. Honda conveniently sidestepped even the reasonable calls.
The '09 TSX has a few flaws; some, such as the steering feel can be fixed rather easily, I think. But one of the biggest drawbacks is how the TSX has grown, and seemingly for no good reason. Ok, maybe it improves roominess in the case that you have 3 passengers riding in the back, but otherwise it just makes the car heavier and more ponderous.
From a styling perspective, I think Acura succeeded in making it look more substantial, but one thing I can't warm up to is the fact that it's basically a 3 box design and it looks like somebody stuck the wrong sized box on the front of the car. There's a very obvious disagreement between the beltline and the hoodline.
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I thought I read on here somewhere where Acura stated that there wouldnt be a Type S version of the car but there will be a hotter drivetrain available in a few months?
3 things are definately noticable upon walking up to the car and getting inside. The first is the increased size. The second would be that the car looks much more substantial. The third would be the upgraded materials, fit/finish, build quality and almost Germanic sound when closing the door. The doors feel nice and weighty like a C-Class. Honda UK definately stepped their game up in the details. By contrast the RDX front doors feel similar to a Civics. Not bad at all for a Civic but considering the RDX costs nearly twice as much I expected much more in that area.
Well said Jeff! Ive noticed this with most newer Honda/Acura cars as it seems as if the ACE system is ruining the front end of the car when it comes to proportions. The Civic gets away with it from its agressively raked winshield. By contrast the last TSX design although not as substantial looking as the 09, seems to flow MUCH MUCH better.
My local Acura dealer has a blk/blk 09 TSX with the (A-Spec?) accessories and its done WONDERS for the styling. The wheels fill out the wells and that lil rear lip spoiler gives the car a much sportier look. From the rear the increased tire width and the spoiler gives the car a VERY agressive nice stance. Its no C300 Sport or 335 Sport but its not a bad looking car.
-Patrick
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JeffX
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CivicB18 wrote:
Jeff wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Type-S or A-Spec please? I agree with you on the looks and the standard features. In fact, those were the things I was predicting would turn out well and it did- it's just the powertrain wasn't up to snuff in my views, and the suspension/steering feel.
It seems that most of the complaints from an enthusiast standpoint (besides those clamouring for a W-16 and RWD or something...) centered around the TSX is the suspension setup and the steering feel. Both of those things shouldn't be extremely difficult to fix and I'm hoping Acura offers up an option to improve these two items. Besides the diesel engine, I'm most curious about hints of another bigger engine coming down the pipeline.
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actually I don't recall too many true TSX enthusiasts asking for ridiculous engine options, unless you count all the turbo/awd wishers. Most requests from people who might actually buy one were pretty reasonable - certainly within reason of Honda/Acura's abilities. Honda conveniently sidestepped even the reasonable calls.
The '09 TSX has a few flaws; some, such as the steering feel can be fixed rather easily, I think. But one of the biggest drawbacks is how the TSX has grown, and seemingly for no good reason. Ok, maybe it improves roominess in the case that you have 3 passengers riding in the back, but otherwise it just makes the car heavier and more ponderous.
From a styling perspective, I think Acura succeeded in making it look more substantial, but one thing I can't warm up to is the fact that it's basically a 3 box design and it looks like somebody stuck the wrong sized box on the front of the car. There's a very obvious disagreement between the beltline and the hoodline.
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I thought I read on here somewhere where Acura stated that there wouldnt be a Type S version of the car but there will be a hotter drivetrain available in a few months?
3 things are definately noticable upon walking up to the car and getting inside. The first is the increased size. The second would be that the car looks much more substantial. The third would be the upgraded materials, fit/finish, build quality and almost Germanic sound when closing the door. The doors feel nice and weighty like a C-Class. Honda UK definately stepped their game up in the details. By contrast the RDX front doors feel similar to a Civics. Not bad at all for a Civic but considering the RDX costs nearly twice as much I expected much more in that area.
-Patrick
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Yes, I was told that there should be something "more" coming down the road, and unless I read it wrong, the implication was that this hint was unrelated to the diesel that we all know is coming. I was told that the RDX turbo engine is basically off the table, and that whatever is coming wouldn't necessarily be badged as a Type-S. This all seems to point in conflicting directions however - if there's going to be a more powerful TSX coming, how could it not be badged differently? Will there be some intermediate trim level? In the past, the type-s has represented a package of changes - sportier seats, sportier suspension, styling tweaks, and more powerful engine. Maybe this TSX upgrade will involve only a bump in power, and thus it's not considered the full "Type-S" treatment. Hopefully we'll know something soon enough.
As for the door solidity, that was one of the first things I noticed when I drove the '09 TSX. It does have a much improved feel compared to the past TSX. In fact, during the introduction of the '04 TSX, I remember the product planners talking up how the sound of the doors had been engineered to match the rivals, but when I first operated the doors of the actual car, I had a good laugh to myself. In fact, I think I may have even brought it up in my first drive article of the '04 TSX. What's odd is that they didn't have to imitate the feel of their rivals, all they had to do was replicate the 1990-1993 Accord's door close feel. In my mind, that may be the best that any Honda has ever felt in that respect.
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PGH
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02MDX&05TSX wrote:
meh. Seen it many times. Still don't like it. Looks puffy or something. But you're right, the back is not as offensive as the front. That Saturn grill will never fly with me.
I won't spend my money on something whose styling doesn't fit my tastes, and this new grille certainly doesn't fit my tastes. I still like the JDM Fit RS. That's more my speed. I'm looking for something more fuel efficient these days anyway...
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I'm with you. Nice car but it could have a Honda badge on the base car and it would fit in. Despite it's 72.4- inch width I found the car a little tight inside. The Accord Coupe feels much roomier with a 72.8-inch width. The dash material seems of high quality but it has a black styrofoam look to it. A 08 seems more polished inside. Honda seems to be using cheaper plastics in current offerings. Over all it's a decent car but left me wanting more for 30k.
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siegen
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Jeff wrote:
I was told that the RDX turbo engine is basically off the table |
Was it the RDX engine in particular, or any turbo engine option, that was off the table? Because I could see a 2.0L turbo fitting in quite well with the lighter-weight FWD TSX.
A 220hp/220tq engine would complement the TSX lineup and wouldn't be anything significant to require "S" badging. It could merely be part of a "Sport" package.
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JeffX
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siegen wrote:
Jeff wrote:
I was told that the RDX turbo engine is basically off the table |
Was it the RDX engine in particular, or any turbo engine option, that was off the table? Because I could see a 2.0L turbo fitting in quite well with the lighter-weight FWD TSX.
A 220hp/220tq engine would complement the TSX lineup and wouldn't be anything significant to require "S" badging. It could merely be part of a "Sport" package.
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I agree, I think a Honda K20T could be a very interesting option for a TSX model (not necessarily the performance model). VWAG has done a very good job with theirs. But I think turbocharging in general is off the table for the TSX.
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Texas
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Have taken two drives in the new TSX tech a/t in an effort to get out of my 04 TSX. I like the extra room up front (6' 3"), seats are great, looks sharp in PM, sound system great, engine stronger than 04 but could use more like said above 220hp 210 tq would be nice, shifts are quick, engine sounds great...
I had a good deal on trade but the busy ride on rough roads was worse to me than my 04...wanted to like it, salesman did a great job but walked a good deal due to ride and some due to steering...although I think you would get use to that....
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jdonigan
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I've always been of the opinion that Honda had a styling A-team and a B-team, and that every so often the B-team won and went into production, and we had (comparatively) ugly Hondas for a while. I believe that if you look at the Clarity and the TSX, you can see the A-team and the B-team at work.
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MasterOfDaDomain
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I have seen two on the road, and I'm sorry, I just can't get over how ugly the front looks. The 1st gen TSX still looks very solid.
Sport packages are due in Acura cars. that's something that should come out with the new car launch right away.
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Wizard
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I've seen seven on the road, one of them being a free loaner from an Acura dealership. The car has a lot more presence than the old TSX and looks much better in person than in pictures. I'm not a fan of the grill, and if I could, I would change that one aspect and the car will be near perfect for what it is supposed to be. Even then, the grill looks better in person, if not the better than it could be.
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JeffX
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Wizard wrote:
I've seen seven on the road, one of them being a free loaner from an Acura dealership. The car has a lot more presence than the old TSX and looks much better in person than in pictures. I'm not a fan of the grill, and if I could, I would change that one aspect and the car will be near perfect for what it is supposed to be. Even then, the grill looks better in person, if not the better than it could be.
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7? How many are the same guy you keep passing going the other way? :^) So far my total count for '09 "civilian" TSX sightings remains at 1 - it was a black one. Oddly I've already seen two Tiguans, both spotted on the same day a few weeks ago, and I understand those have already been recalled and pulled from the market for the time being. That was actually a weird day for compact crossovers though because I saw 4 or 5 RDXs on that same day as well, and I wasn't even driving around all that much. I see a couple of RDXs fairly regularly but it's the same 2 people I recognize. Other than that, they're still a fairly rare sight.
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Powered by Honda
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Atomic Frog wrote:
Okay, by now it seems clear the "enthusiasts" aren't exactly the most enamoured by this car's performance. (However, I'd still take this over the IS250 any day).
Judging by the various pictures in all the reviews, I wasn't too warm about the looks either. However, I met up with one on the road today....and it's a winner. I'm not sure why the difference in real life, but the back end looks very nice, better than the pix. The front end (which I almost hated in the pictures) actually looks really good. Put together, it's very well done. It definitely has more road presence than the old one.
I could see this thing selling well. Let's face it, the "enthusiasts" are a very small (though vocal) portion of the market. For the rest of the population, I'm betting it will have more than enough zoom, especially with its great looks.
Before you pass judgement, I highly recommend you actually go and see this thing in person first. I can't wait too get in and drive this thing and see what that's like...and I can't wait to see the new TL now.
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totally agree!
I feel in love when I saw it in person. I thought to myself, I cant believe honda made me like this car. The car I had tons of hate for.
Its a bit too expensive in canada so I still wont get one but dam it would be nice.
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Wizard
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Jeff wrote:
Wizard wrote:
I've seen seven on the road, one of them being a free loaner from an Acura dealership. The car has a lot more presence than the old TSX and looks much better in person than in pictures. I'm not a fan of the grill, and if I could, I would change that one aspect and the car will be near perfect for what it is supposed to be. Even then, the grill looks better in person, if not the better than it could be.
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7? How many are the same guy you keep passing going the other way? :^) So far my total count for '09 "civilian" TSX sightings remains at 1 - it was a black one. Oddly I've already seen two Tiguans, both spotted on the same day a few weeks ago, and I understand those have already been recalled and pulled from the market for the time being. That was actually a weird day for compact crossovers though because I saw 4 or 5 RDXs on that same day as well, and I wasn't even driving around all that much. I see a couple of RDXs fairly regularly but it's the same 2 people I recognize. Other than that, they're still a fairly rare sight.
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The loaner was black, as were three others. It wasn't a repeat, because I also look at license plate. They seem to be doing well here in Dallas area.
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duncan
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Jeff wrote:
The '09 TSX has a few flaws; some, such as the steering feel can be fixed rather easily, I think. But one of the biggest drawbacks is how the TSX has grown, and seemingly for no good reason. Ok, maybe it improves roominess in the case that you have 3 passengers riding in the back, but otherwise it just makes the car heavier and more ponderous.
From a styling perspective, I think Acura succeeded in making it look more substantial, but one thing I can't warm up to is the fact that it's basically a 3 box design and it looks like somebody stuck the wrong sized box on the front of the car. There's a very obvious disagreement between the beltline and the hoodline.
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I agree--spent some time checking one out at my dealership 2 wks ago (I was running late so I didn't have time for a test drive). The backend looks OK, the wider stance does give the car more substance. But rest of the car lost me--despite having the same general shape as of the old car fr. the A pillar on back, the car looks much chunkier and brutish & has completely lost all the sleek elegance of the old car. The front is overwhelmed by the grill which I just can't warm up to at all--it just looks so dorky and Saturnish--too derivative & distracting. The overall look is closer to a 70s American land yacht than than a modern sporty car.
OTOH the increased size does make for a very comfortable interrior--loved the added elbow room. Back seats were fairly comfortable too--good leg & head room but I found it odd the front seats were literally resting right on top of my feet--didn't see if the seats can be raised to accomodate though. Loved the new dash too--much more upscale and engaging. The number of buttons on the centre stack did look intimidating & confusing at first but I'm sure that's something I can adjust to over time.
I asked the salesman if a more powerful engine was coming and he flat out said no.....hmmmm.....
Seen 2 in public so far, a black & a white.
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danielgr
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duncan wrote:
[...]I asked the salesman if a more powerful engine was coming and he flat out said no.....hmmmm.....
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A salesman that can see you like the car may be tempted to tell you there is no more powerful version coming to sell this one first, knowing that you are likely to come back to get the more powerful one after a couple of years or three...
Of course, he could not know anything about a more powerful version at all, and be honest. Even then, it's not because he is honest that he is right, but of course he could have been honest and right :) :) :)
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LudegarH22A7
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My nearest Acura dealer says they've sold close to 60. So they're averaging roughly 1 or slightly more per business day.
Not bad and far from failure considering discounted 08 TL's are still plentiful.
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duncan
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danielgr wrote:
Even then, it's not because he is honest that he is right, but of course he could have been honest and right :) :) :)
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Imagine that, an honest salesman...is that an oxymoron?? (sorry, Honda AVFM!)
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JeffX
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LudegarH22A7 wrote:
My nearest Acura dealer says they've sold close to 60. So they're averaging roughly 1 or slightly more per business day.
Not bad and far from failure considering discounted 08 TL's are still plentiful.
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gosh, that sounds like it's doing very well. I'm surprised I've only seen one on the road so far, since I'm only ~30 miles across town from your dealer.
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JimmyEats
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Haven't you seen the commercials? TSX owners go to raves at night. You must be driving during the day.
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CarPhreakD
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Jeff wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
Type-S or A-Spec please? I agree with you on the looks and the standard features. In fact, those were the things I was predicting would turn out well and it did- it's just the powertrain wasn't up to snuff in my views, and the suspension/steering feel.
It seems that most of the complaints from an enthusiast standpoint (besides those clamouring for a W-16 and RWD or something...) centered around the TSX is the suspension setup and the steering feel. Both of those things shouldn't be extremely difficult to fix and I'm hoping Acura offers up an option to improve these two items. Besides the diesel engine, I'm most curious about hints of another bigger engine coming down the pipeline.
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actually I don't recall too many true TSX enthusiasts asking for ridiculous engine options, unless you count all the turbo/awd wishers. Most requests from people who might actually buy one were pretty reasonable - certainly within reason of Honda/Acura's abilities. Honda conveniently sidestepped even the reasonable calls.
The '09 TSX has a few flaws; some, such as the steering feel can be fixed rather easily, I think. But one of the biggest drawbacks is how the TSX has grown, and seemingly for no good reason. Ok, maybe it improves roominess in the case that you have 3 passengers riding in the back, but otherwise it just makes the car heavier and more ponderous.
From a styling perspective, I think Acura succeeded in making it look more substantial, but one thing I can't warm up to is the fact that it's basically a 3 box design and it looks like somebody stuck the wrong sized box on the front of the car. There's a very obvious disagreement between the beltline and the hoodline.
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The 150 lbs. seems to have come from a bit more room but also from making the car "feel" more solid. You remarked on the solid door thunk right Jeff? =) I think that with firmer steering and suspension much of the "ponderous" feeling could be removed. Although I haven't had a test drive yet, from reports I'm hearing all over the place it seems that the ponderous feeling is mostly due to the suspension and steering that creates a feeling of disconnectedness with the car rather than the actual weight hindering the vehicle.
I was pretty surprised myself by the "base" engine (I did call for a Type-S with a K23A1 and SH-AWD), because I was expecting 215-230 hp and I thought it was reasonable too. At first I didn't think Acura was serious when the new horsepower figures for the engine came out =/
In terms of styling, the main thing that bothers me are the side fenders. They're not only very large and circular, but they don't even flow with the rest of the car.
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kirk
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Just drove a 6MT Tech package. Nice looking car, smooth engine, good suspension set up. However, didn't like the "golf cart" steering or the major glare on the Nav screen. Not as quiet as my 06 Accord. I think this car will be nicer after the MMC, if it takes that long to correct the issues.
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