I hope Acura spares no expense when they make this supercar. It needs to be fast, really fast. It should handily leave the F430 and Gallardo in its dust, not just be competitive with them.
And then after that, offer an Acura sports car that I can afford, lol.
Dren wrote: I don't think this car is going to sell as 'well' as the NSX. The market isn't calling for it.
When has the NSX sold well? It's meant to be a "halo" product, something that embodies technological achievement of Honda, hence the uber spec this new car has. We certainly don't need V10 engine and 4WD let alone a smart version of it on our daily car.
When Nissan opens the veil of GT-R, the youths around my area suddenly exchanging their Toyota for a Nissan, as they claimed to be more "representative" of their future dream... Toyota's future dream? (currently) are the Crown or the LS, old man's car. So it's not all about direct sales, there's also the collateral effect of having a desirable product on the portfolio.
Wow if its its actually priced that high I don't think I'll ever see one on the road. I can't imagine too many people buying it at that price especially if it doesn't have a NSX badge on it (I hope its not called an NSX by the way)
Of course I don't see Lambos everyday either but in certain neighborhood in Long Island and in Manhattan its not unusual to see a Ferrari or Aston Martin etc.
On a side note a few months back there was a gorgeous yellow NSX parked in Manhattan on a saturday night. Every one walking by were literally rubber necking some people would actually stop and smile and talk about it with there buddies. Obviously a lot of people were intoxicated coming out of the nearby bars and clubs but damn man that car makes such an impression till this day! Honda had something special with the NSX its too bad they can't revive it.
Being the lucky owner of a '98 Black NSX, I can vouch for the car's "wow" factor :) It is devoid of adornments except for 18" and 19" rims and big tyres. It never ceases to amaze me the number of people that stop and talk, or wave and shout as they drive by. And this in a city where Ferraris, Lambos and Porsches are quite common due to our booming resources led economy.
Dren wrote: I don't think this car is going to sell as 'well' as the NSX. The market isn't calling for it.
When has the NSX sold well? It's meant to be a "halo" product, something that embodies technological achievement of Honda, hence the uber spec this new car has. We certainly don't need V10 engine and 4WD let alone a smart version of it on our daily car.
When Nissan opens the veil of GT-R, the youths around my area suddenly exchanging their Toyota for a Nissan, as they claimed to be more "representative" of their future dream... Toyota's future dream? (currently) are the Crown or the LS, old man's car. So it's not all about direct sales, there's also the collateral effect of having a desirable product on the portfolio.
I didn't say sell well, I said sell as 'well' as the NSX (note that I put '' marks around well). The NSX wasn't a big seller. I know what the point of a halo car is, but if not that many people want the car to begin with (if they can afford it or not) then what's the point? I didn't buy two CRXs and a Civic Si because Honda created the NSX. I don't know anyone who did. I don't know anyone who bought a Nissan because of the GT-R either. The idea that a halo car sells the brand is absurd. I hear it all the time but I have yet to come across anyone who purchased a vehicle because of that brand's 'halo' car.
Other than the V10...everything else that Honda could put in the car is already available on its other vehicles. VTEC is going on 20 years. The gimmicky SH-AWD has been around for a while now. Expensive alloys and composite materials showed up on the NSX. High revving motors have always been in Honda's line-up since the first Honda car was sold. Honda may slap a few more letters on the front or back of VTEC and call it a day. This car is a money pit.
while it's fun to hear about whatever's going on with the next-gen NSX, essentially there's a lot of words there, but nothing new has been said.
Other than it clarifies the GT's position closer to the forthcoming Ferrari 149 (which is rumoured to be around 1500kg; like a late NSX-T Auto) and away from the Nissan Super-heavy LardaRse. Which is exactly what it ought to be.
I wonder what Pavlov would have made about every time someone from Acura clearly says 'NSX replacement', someone reads it as 'new NSX' and starts foaming at the mouth? Perhaps they could just ring a bell instead...
Dren wrote: I don't think this car is going to sell as 'well' as the NSX. The market isn't calling for it.
When has the NSX sold well? It's meant to be a "halo" product, something that embodies technological achievement of Honda, hence the uber spec this new car has. We certainly don't need V10 engine and 4WD let alone a smart version of it on our daily car.
When Nissan opens the veil of GT-R, the youths around my area suddenly exchanging their Toyota for a Nissan, as they claimed to be more "representative" of their future dream... Toyota's future dream? (currently) are the Crown or the LS, old man's car. So it's not all about direct sales, there's also the collateral effect of having a desirable product on the portfolio.
FMKorg wrote: Wow if its its actually priced that high I don't think I'll ever see one on the road. I can't imagine too many people buying it at that price especially if it doesn't have a NSX badge on it (I hope its not called an NSX by the way)
.
I would like to see the NSX name live on, but only if it is a pure sportscar. If it really is going to compeat with the F430 then it is living up to the NSXs name, but if it is going to be some luxury car to compeat with Aston Martin or Bently then no way.
Dren wrote: Other than the V10...everything else that Honda could put in the car is already available on its other vehicles. VTEC is going on 20 years. The gimmicky SH-AWD has been around for a while now. Expensive alloys and composite materials showed up on the NSX. High revving motors have always been in Honda's line-up since the first Honda car was sold. Honda may slap a few more letters on the front or back of VTEC and call it a day. This car is a money pit.
I dislike being critical of other posters and their opinions, but........
There is nothing "gimmicky" about SH-AWD. It is the AWD system in the GTR which makes it such an awesome vehicle. And Honda's system is argurably even better! Have you ever driven SH-AWD? Have you experienced how it rotates the vehicle in cornering, allowing you to put the power down so much harder and SOONER than you can with RWD, without oversteer?
I don't know if my exasperation is more with Dren and his opinion, or with Honda/Acura for failing to promote SH-AWD in a way that people appreciate just how good it is. Perhaps this NSX replacement will be the start of peoples appreciation. Then again, most people don't realise just why the GTR is SO fast.
SH-AWD is a gimmick. Sure, it works, but then you have the added complexity, added weight, added cost, efficiency losses. The name in itself is a gimmick...Super Handling. Honda is capable of designing a car that handles great and puts down the power just as great without an AWD system.
I'm not saying the SH-AWD system isn't cool or functional...it is, but is it really needed?
The short answer is....look at the GTR, and how it manages to out-perform everything else within $200-300,000.
That sir, is NOT a gimmick! Speed is all about how fast you are, not what you may think is fast. If you want to go as fast as is possible, then SH-AWD is really necessary.
The philosphy of whether a light, well balanced car [like the NSX] is a "nicer" car to drive is a totally different argument.
Its only a gimmick on car that doesn't really need it ie a moderately powered RWD vehicle. In that scenario its real world benefit would be in adverse weather and since I've never driven any of these advanced AWD vehicles on the track I can't vouch for its performance one way or the other in that situation.
What I do know is that I remember reading that the old GTR was unbeatable on certain tracks over in Japan because of its AWD system. In fact, they used to swap a 4cyl turbo into the Supra for some of these races just to compete. I don't know if this was propaganda or an exaggeration but I remember reading it online. The idea was that the GTRs AWD was a big advantage on certain tracks but never a hinderance on other tracks.
Based on that and what I know of how Hondas SH-AWD system works I feel that on a V10 NSX successor it would be a good thing and not a gimmick.
I do agree that the name is stupid "super handling". In the ads it comes off as saying that AWD=super handling as opposed to being Acuras own unique system. As someone here at TOV once said it should have been named "torque vectoring AWD" or something similar.
just as a side note. Honda has it's work cut out for it. Carlos Ghosn just announced yesterday that the GT-R has officially achieved a time of 7:29 at the Nurburgring. The vehicle that didi the lap was a production spec vehicle with stock production tires on a day with good weather. the previous time of 7:38 was achieved on a day with not so good weather. The new time of 7:29 makes the GT-R the fastest production spec car ever to grace the ring.
If the base GT-R can do 7:29 then imagine what the V-Spec will do. early reports are that the V-spec has been spotted running the ring in about the 7:25 range.......and this is just for setup sesting not thying to achieve the best time........ok carry on.
I wouldn't exactly call SH-AWD a "gimmick". In the past it was tuned so that it only came on when you're really pushing the vehicle with deep throttle through the turns, and was nearly transparent in operation. But to say that it's a gimmick is almost like claiming that something like ABS is a gimmick...
However, the post-MMC RL now has more aggressively tuned SH-AWD, so why not wait and see how that affects the vehicle?
There's no telling that the new Acura supercar won't have a different SH-AWD setup from its lesser siblings, like how the Audi R8 has a different Quattro setup from the other Audi's.
If its going to be priced as a ferrari they might as well forget it. What Honda needs is something that can whip the GTR, at about the same price, end of story.
CarPhreakD wrote: I wouldn't exactly call SH-AWD a "gimmick". In the past it was tuned so that it only came on when you're really pushing the vehicle with deep throttle through the turns, and was nearly transparent in operation. But to say that it's a gimmick is almost like claiming that something like ABS is a gimmick...
However, the post-MMC RL now has more aggressively tuned SH-AWD, so why not wait and see how that affects the vehicle?
There's no telling that the new Acura supercar won't have a different SH-AWD setup from its lesser siblings, like how the Audi R8 has a different Quattro setup from the other Audi's.
That's exactly it; Honda has always talked about "RWD-biased SH-AWD" for the GT5000. Think of it as a fat, refined S2000 that can bleed excess torque to the front end, and bias the rear tyres to iron out those allegedly 'snappy' reactions. It might actually be awfully or even awefully good.
GhOsT wrote: V-spec has been spotted running the ring in about the 7:25 range
just as reference, Gan San ran the NSX-R at the ring in 7:56, so i wonder what a NSX-R with 400+hp would run?
It's not all about horsepower. you can give a car a ton of horsepower but it'll make no difference if it can't effectively put it to the ground while maintaining balance. some vehicles with tones of power do poorly at the ring.....by your logic you would think the Veyron or Koenigsegg CC-R/CCX-R would have the best ring times, but they dont.
6SPDTL wrote: If its going to be priced as a ferrari they might as well forget it. What Honda needs is something that can whip the GTR, at about the same price, end of story.
You see, now THAT kind of car could be positioned as a Honda.
But why stop at the GT-R? It's a great performance sports car but it's lacking the luxury and refinement of many other cars (for example, the interior is nerdtastic). Otherwise, why doesn't everyone just buy a GT-R and forget about every other "supercar" out there on the market?
As an example... It's easy for a company to develop a car that can make more hp and run faster than the Veyron... the difference is the Veyron can do it day in and day out and at a comfortable pace, while cocooning its occupants in rich leather and a great interior (i.e. you feel like you're money in a wallet). You won't feel like the car is shaking itself apart and neither do you feel out of control. This isn't something everyone can lay claim on and its a reason why the Veyron is as expensive and fantastic as it is.
Similarly, any idiot can tune the SH-AWD system to extreme amounts and shove in a twin turbo V8 (or in this case, a bigass V10) that can produce 600+ hp. The question is, can the car do it with refinement, luxury, and driver involvement? This is why it needs to be an Acura.. and that's the question that the next gen supercar has to answer.
As Nick said, it's either going to end up spectacular or really ugly.
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