CivicB18
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Ive been patient long enough and as Ive mentioned a few weeks ago have been looking around for another vehicle. Ive narrowed it down to a 07 GTi 5 door 6MT and a 08 Acura RDX Tech. Im still debating as Im really trying to find something that REALLY fits me and my needs.
I really wanted to like the new TSX and in some ways (as Jeff mentioned) it is a better car. I just feel that Acura may have erased what made the original TSX a standout, its superb driving dynamics. Sure the new car is constructed better, gets better on paper efficiency, has a sporty interior, but I think everyone including non Acura enthusiasts expected more.
Then we get to the 09 RL. From what Ive read the mechanicals recieved updates and thats always a good thing. The styling however........well, I think you understand where Im going. I do understand that Acura didnt want to spend a great deal of time and money on this particular car as its replacement will be here within a couple of years.
The TL, my favorite Acura by far. I like the current design but Im really scared that Acura will go the same route they went with the 09 TSX. Acura cant afford to mess up their bread and butter sedan.
This question is to everyone here. If Acura DOESNT keep its promise at reaching its tier 1 goal and to produce a much better and wider range of products will you stay with the brand or will you look elsewhere?
~LP
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dootndo2
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I went with an 08 Accord Coupe V6 6MT. I'm very happy with it. I was in consideration of RDX Tech and TSX, but RDX seems to have poor MPG and TSX is too slow (bloated) for the price. I paid $27,200 for my Accord with Navi.
87 fuel is great and the 3.5 is awesome. If the sedan had a similar setup, I would have gone with that.
dootndo2
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Acur8ly
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I went got the 07type S TL mid last year so I will stick it out for a while. I hope the new TL is as stunning as the current. The re-design of the RL and to a lesser extent the new TSX scare me. I dont like the direction there designs are taking. Hopefully its like the last gen Accord. It took a while to grow on me but eventually I grew to love it. I want to love the new TL from the time I see it, unfortunately from the camo pics Ive seen online I think I will disappointed. To answer your question of where would I go if not Acura, I may look for an Infiniti G37 or maybe a CTS caddy.
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cksi1372
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I've pretty much given up at this point on Acura. I can't stand the new grill that they are implementing and if I'm going to pay Tier 1 prices, I want something more emotional. Sorry, if anything, bad emotions come from that grill. Heck, I'd prefer an 08 TSX or TL/S, or even a couple year old one before I'd buy what they've shown so far. Reading their marketing lit, I'm smack dab in the middle of their target market and they've completely missed, IMO. They better up their age range on this car dramatically.
Seeing that I'm a huge Honda fan, I would probably just go with Accord Coupe or 4dr Si. I've also been seriously looking outside Honda/Acura for the first time, however. Audi, BMW, Volkswagen, Infiniti, Lexus, Caddy, and Mercedes, seemed to have gotten a lot more "look" from me this car purchase time around. Congrats Acura, way to continue to destroy a brand that had/has so much promise.
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Leif
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After reading the initial reviews, I'm leaning now towards a 2008 GLI. I want a sporty 4-door sedan. If Acura announced a sport option/package/model for the TSX, then I'd still consider the TSX.
Leif W.
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cobalt
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I currently have an '02 Accord Coupe EX-V6/L. It was a narrow miss getting an Acura TL/CL at the time, but with the huge discounts they were giving before the '03 Accord FMC, I got mine for a *steal*. And although it's starting to age, I was genuinely impressed with the '98-'02 coupe style -- very Prelude with a little more utility and a V6. It's been very easy to enjoy, but I'm thinking about a family now and looking for 4+ doors. (This obviously isn't the only H or A badge in my family, by the way.)
I've liked the lines of the TSX -- the new TSX I might actually like better than the old from an aesthetic standpoint, but with none of the increased dimensions going to rear legroom and with no V6, that's going to be a tough sell. (I almost feel the need to apologize here, but I just don't think I can go back to an I4 after having 6 cylinders for the past decade.)
So where am I looking now?
For Acura: The RDX is on my list, but it's obviously not perfect, and even if it were, I might still prefer a sedan. (Depends on if the wife gets a small crossover -- no need for two in the same family here.) I do like the TL overall, and I would probably be happy for some time with even an '04 to '08 model. I'm cautiously excited to see what they've done for '09. Overall, I love the Acura interiors, at least concerning button/control layout, and I can't understand anyone claiming Audi or BMW having the edge in this category. Maybe there are other perspectives like material quality where non-Acura brands win, but I feel like Acura has been winning on the usability front.
Anway, to answer your question, here's what I'm considering outside Acura:
IS-350: it's not on the short list because of interior dimensions, but I'll give it a test drive before ruling it out.
BMW 3 series: drove one about a year ago -- I admit to enjoying the drive, but I couldn't justify the overall cost/feature tradeoff. This is probably off the list.
Audi and Infiniti: I actually haven't driven either for several years now, but I need to. The options here are at least somewhat appealing.
Toyota: What, the Camry? Can't do it. No way.
Honda Accord: the new Accord's okay -- my father actually traded his 740i for one -- but I'm not in love with it. If the new TL sucks I'd probably pick up one of the last '08 TL's above the new Accord.
Honda Civic: There's an outside chance of something like a Civic Hybrid. (No, not interested in a Prius.)
So it appears I'm really trying hard to stay in the Acura family, but even with this bias I'm starting to get discouraged.
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cgx
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cobalt wrote:
So it appears I'm really trying hard to stay in the Acura family, but even with this bias I'm starting to get discouraged.
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Based on the RDX intro, RL MMC and MDX & TSX FMC, I would not hold out hope for the TL FMC. Based on the spy shots, it appears to have gained in size in similar proportion to the TSX weight gain. Just picked up a 3, so I can understand the reluctance to trade down on features. My loaded 3 ran 40K, and while worth every penny to me, it's not cheap. I was hoping the TSX FMC would have been announced as a G competitor in the Fall and offered 240-260 HP, SH-AWD, Sports 4 Styling, upgraded interior, etc., topping out at 35K. Acura delivered zilch except the price. Personally I'm not a big fan of Nissan/Infiniti, but you have to admire what they have accomplished with their lineup. Now that is value, not the BS that Acura and Honda have been peddling. If I was you I'd check out the new Audi A4 - terrific style, the best interior in the business for about the same price as the TSX w/Tech. If Nav is your thing, the new Garmins and Tom Toms are head and shoulders better for less than $500.
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klui_188
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These are my (potential) choices with target price of low $30K (below $35K) or below:
1. STAYING IN THE FAMILY: Used RL (I do live the current one before the ugly face lift fiasco), TL, RDX, TSX (04-05, as I don't think I'd like the DBW). Accord EX (I4 or V6, w/+ or w/o 6MT). New/Used Si 4-dr, new TSX (assuming I could get a decent deal on it)...
2. LEAVING THE FAMILY: Used Lexus GS, STi, Evo 9 MR, E46 coupe, E90 sedan, Mazda 6, Speed 3.... I'm not much of a fan for VW, Audi, & MB.... I don't know if I'd even bother checking 'em out.
Bottom line: as much as they claim how much of a value laden this TSX is it IS a tough sell to spend close to (or in most cases over) $30K for a 4 banger entry level sport/luxo sedan!
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wrussi
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BMW 3 series!
or subaru legacy gt spec-b
hmm
and there are plenty on the used market i could think of.
when my tsx lease is up im done with acura.
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jkangmpc
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It's not an 'IF' for me, at least in U.S. Adding a v-6 for tsx without AWD ain't gonna make things better, either.
Maybe I'm just not part of the target market for them anymore - I don't want any bigger car, I'd rather have something smaller/lighter. Although I don't care much for most luxury items, I do like heated/cooled seats (and maybe steerting wheel) and slightly more refined rides for everyday driver. Sadly, 3 series aren't the same anymore. They get heavier, faster and much more expensive, while being less fun. 1 series, at least I was told, is about the same. Lexus and Audi/VW's just don't drive or feel right. Saab/Volvo/Jag/Merc/Cad makes nothing I like. At this rate I'll either start buying used e36, tsx, cross the border to buy canadian csx type-s (if it's got heated seats) or give up on having a entry level luxury car for daily commuter and buy something like a yaris or fit.
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iceman6
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My next car will have a diesel or hybrid power train. So unless the new Jetta TDI bowls me over, I plan to wait until next year, when the diesel TSX comes out. The sad thing is, every European car worth owning is available with a diesel option. I would probably buy a Mini or BMW diesel if they would only import them!
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/autoshows/newyork/2008/worldgreencaroftheyear.html#bmw118d500
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cgx
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iceman6 wrote:
My next car will have a diesel or hybrid power train. So unless the new Jetta TDI bowls me over, I plan to wait until next year, when the diesel TSX comes out. The sad thing is, every European car worth owning is available with a diesel option. I would probably buy a Mini or BMW diesel if they would only import them!
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/autoshows/newyork/2008/worldgreencaroftheyear.html#bmw118d500
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335d Advanced Diesel vehicle - Marking a significant milestone in the BMW EfficientDynamics strategy, this fall BMW will release two vehicle models equipped with BMW Advanced Diesel with BluePerformance-the X5 xDrive35d and 335d. Successfully meeting the strict exhaust emissions requirements of the North American automobile market, the vehicles will be available in all 50 states and on average, offer 25 percent less fuel consumption than equally powerful gasoline engines.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2008/03/19/new-york-auto-show-bmw-cs-concept-and-other-exciting-models/
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JeffX
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cgx wrote:
iceman6 wrote:
My next car will have a diesel or hybrid power train. So unless the new Jetta TDI bowls me over, I plan to wait until next year, when the diesel TSX comes out. The sad thing is, every European car worth owning is available with a diesel option. I would probably buy a Mini or BMW diesel if they would only import them!
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/autoshows/newyork/2008/worldgreencaroftheyear.html#bmw118d500
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335d Advanced Diesel vehicle - Marking a significant milestone in the BMW EfficientDynamics strategy, this fall BMW will release two vehicle models equipped with BMW Advanced Diesel with BluePerformance-the X5 xDrive35d and 335d. Successfully meeting the strict exhaust emissions requirements of the North American automobile market, the vehicles will be available in all 50 states and on average, offer 25 percent less fuel consumption than equally powerful gasoline engines.
http://www.bmwblog.com/2008/03/19/new-york-auto-show-bmw-cs-concept-and-other-exciting-models/
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At over $4/gallon in my parts, diesel is already 25% more expensive than unleaded. That makes it a break even on energy costs, but then you have to pay more for the diesel engine (quite a bit more) up front, and you have to DRIVE it (hint: they're much better now compared to past diesels, but most of them aren't nearly as great as some writers would have you believe. Granted, the BMW diesel is pretty good, though).
There's a remarkable level of enthusiasm and anticipation that the media has managed to generate for diesels, but I think that for a lot of people, the technology is not going to live up to the hype. Diesel will be a nice alternative for those who like it, but it's certainly not the "answer".
Hell, diesel might be $5/gallon by the time all of these highly anticipated engines finally get here.
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bukwheat
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True dat! Diesel is getting VERY expensive. The price you pay for the Jetta TDI and diesel, you might as well stick with a Civic LX/EX (if milage is your concern).
Back to the '09 TSX...I agree, it looks like it's trying too much. They should've kept the original design and just made the car wider. It's now way too big and bulky, especially for a 4cyl. If anything, Acura should've left the TSX in it's concept form...those fender arches now look more like an afterthought. :( Can't say enough about that front end either...simply fugly. It started with the MDX, where and when will it ever end....
I'll have to admit, the MDX and RDX are the only beneficiaries of Acura's new design. As bad as that grill may look, it seems more appropriate on the MDX. However, they should've stopped there and left it with their truck/suv division.
Nothing bad to say about the TSX's interior, though...it's as good as the original.
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iceman6
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It's not just about fuel economy. Hell, my TSX gets 24 mpg driving around the metro. It's the reduction in carbon emissions.
Also, a diesel engine will have a lot more low-end torque than the comparable 4-cylinder gasser. More torque is what this car needs!
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BernardP
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iceman6 wrote:
It's not just about fuel economy. Hell, my TSX gets 24 mpg driving around the metro. It's the reduction in carbon emissions. |
Fuel economy and "carbon" (meaning CO2, carbon dioxide), are 100% linked.
The perfect combustion of an hydrocarbon (composed of Hydrogen and Carbon atoms) with the Oxygen in the air would result in only water (H20) and carbon dioxide (CO2). This is why fuel economy is directly linked to CO2 production.
The problem is that there is no such thing as perfect combustion. Pollutants are also produced because of impurities in gazoline and the Nitrogen contained in air. Air is composed of 78% nitrogen. Nitrogen is sucked into the engine, and when it makes contact with heated oxygen, noxious Nitrogen Oxides (NOx) are produced. Other imperfect processes result in production of Carbon Monoxide (CO) a poison.
Anti-emission regulations have always limited pollutants, such as NOx and CO. Since CO2 is not a pollutant, but a natural and stable compound, (it's not only the product of combustion, but of all animal breathing on Earth, for example) the only way to limit CO2 production by automotive engines is to improve their fuel economy: less fuel-burn = less CO2 production.
Some might have seen that California is trying to have CO2 reclassified as a pollutant, so as to gain the power to regulate it. The Federal government is opposing this. If California manages to win, this will give them the right to establish maximum CO2 emissions (in grams/mile), which will be exactly the same as enforcing a tougher fuel-economy standard for California.
I have managed to write all of the above without going into the subject of Global Warming, the reason for which we supposedly have to limit our CO2 emissions. I must confess that, over the last few years, I have progressively gone from a neutral observer of this question, to a believer, to a skeptic and now to a non-believer.
Nobody can convince anyone about this. One has to be willing to spend the time to do personal research by reaching outside the collective hysteria bubble blown by the media and politicians.
Hundreds of dissenting scientists are openly promoting the idea that climate changes are related to cycles in solar activity or other natural causes, not to variations in the infinitesimal fraction (.03%) of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere
Did you know that global temperatures have actually been slowly going down since the turn of the millenium? And that there has been a pronounced global temperature drop in the last year?
Here are a few web sites that I have found to be credible:
http://www.icecap.us/
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/
http://www.junkscience.com/
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Texas
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If I stay FWD (doubtful) it will be the Accord coupe 6, may chill to see what leaks on the T/L,
if that all falls and I go RWD this is my target, mine would be silver and 09, have driven one, 6sp A/T smooth and guick shift, power good and better ride and handling than tl-s, quicker than most...
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0802_2008_pontiac_g8_gt_first_look/photo_13.html
I too do not go with the sky is falling global warming crowd, here is a site or two:
http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=332289
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BernardP
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So having considered various alternatives as well as a budget similar to the TSX, I think a VW Passat 2.0T w 6-speed manual would be an interesting alternative. With VW's recent MSRP decrease, this car is now around 30 k$ here in Canada. It lacks leather, sunroof and some electronic gadgetry, but has all the necessary mechanical bits and the excellent turbo engine. Leather, sunroof, and tons of luxury details can be added with the 5 k$ Highline package that brings the price around that of the TSX.
As I said above, my wife has a 2006 Passat 2.0T, so I know how it drives. Of course, it would be less entertaining to have twice the same car in the driveway.
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MasterOfDaDomain
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In our garage parks a BMW and a Honda. So there's my answer.
If you are looking for performance and driving dynamics, the answer is pretty simple if your budget is $30K. Get a BMW 128i, 6MT, sport package. If you have to have 4 doors, then it gets more difficult. Of course, lots of TSX owners like the bang for the buck - current TSX, and may still be happy with it.
In my view, Acura probably had little leverage over the development of the TSX.
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bbelding
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I currently have an '05 TL 6MT and an '07 Pilot EX-L/RES. The wife primarily drives the Pilot, and we absolutely wouldn't trade it for anything.
As far as my car goes, I was seriously considering trading it for a TSX 2.3T SH-AWD 6MT. Since that "advance"d dream didn't come true, I'll patiently await the TL announcement. I can't justify the cost of upgrading to a TL Type-S 6MT, since the 3.2 already overpowers the car, and I'm sure the 3.5 would too (although I haven't driven one). If Acura releases a +300HP SH-AWD 6MT (not automated manual BS, but a row-the-gears normal MT), I'll be at the dealership. If there's no row-the-gears option, I may be heading to BMW or Infiniti for my first non-Honda/Acura ever.
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klossfam
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I ALSO wanted to like the new TSX - in fact, I was going to buy one>>>>IF they offered a Type-S and/or SH-AWD...I loved my 2004 TSX but needed more excitement and traded for a 2006 Audi A4 S-line Quattro (3.2)...That confirmed my AWD leanings (living in Western NY) and I have always been a Honda/Acura guy (our other car is a 2004 Pilot EX-L with 92,000 trouble free miles)...So the goal was new TSX...Alas, disappointment...and no TSX with SH-AWD or even a good date on the TL redesign with SH-AWD...What should hit the market? The Sport Package for the Infiniti G35x (now the G35xS)...For $38,700 loaded with a true take home of $36K...It was a no brainer - 306hp, nice ergos and great combo of sport & luxury...with a RWD based platform as a bonus...It'll be hard to go back to Acura in the foreseeable future...
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Texas
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klossfam wrote:
I ALSO wanted to like the new TSX - in fact, I was going to buy one>>>>IF they offered a Type-S and/or SH-AWD...I loved my 2004 TSX but needed more excitement and traded for a 2006 Audi A4 S-line Quattro (3.2)...That confirmed my AWD leanings (living in Western NY) and I have always been a Honda/Acura guy (our other car is a 2004 Pilot EX-L with 92,000 trouble free miles)...So the goal was new TSX...Alas, disappointment...and no TSX with SH-AWD or even a good date on the TL redesign with SH-AWD...What should hit the market? The Sport Package for the Infiniti G35x (now the G35xS)...For $38,700 loaded with a true take home of $36K...It was a no brainer - 306hp, nice ergos and great combo of sport & luxury...with a RWD based platform as a bonus...It'll be hard to go back to Acura in the foreseeable future...
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I hear ya, been hanging on to my 04 tsx, waiting for something that lights it up a little...nothing...will go here when the 09 silvers come out...$32,000, handles, goes and mod friendly... 360/380 rwd, the I want tech toys more than go-go crowd need not apply...
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/pontiac/2008-pontiac-g8-test-drive-ar53326.html
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Texas
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http://www.fquick.com/videos/Pontiac_G8_Track_Run/5298
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