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2001AccordEX
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Even more intriguing to me than the dyno results is that a regular contributor (not sure of your role at TOV) to a Honda fansite drives a Nissan product. Don't get me wrong, the G35 is a great car, simply surprising that you do not drive a Honda.
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JeffX
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Shawn has a G35 only because Honda has failed him/us for so long on the FR coupe/sedan front. But he'll also tell you his favorite car is his 2000 Honda S2000.
2001AccordEX wrote:
Even more intriguing to me than the dyno results is that a regular contributor (not sure of your role at TOV) to a Honda fansite drives a Nissan product. Don't get me wrong, the G35 is a great car, simply surprising that you do not drive a Honda.
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notyper
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Well, I am one of the early originals. I'm the guy you hear in most of the videos and I've been writing for this site or one of its two progenitors since about 1995.
That said, Jeff summed it up nicely. Honda and Acura have not given me what I want in a car. I fell in love with my family's 1986 Accord and then my 1990 Civic hatchback. My 1994 Integra GS-R was my first real sporty vehicle. It was also the first vehicle I ever took to the dragstrip, autocross and roadcourse. Then there was the used 1991 CRX Si that I bought for a song and modified to be a little hell raiser. And of course, my 2000 S2000 (and I also own a 2001 S2000 race car).
But despite that history, as I've grown up, Honda and Acura haven't grown with me. Two years ago I was looking for a sub-$40k sport coupe (preferably luxury or semi-luxury) with a manual transmission and RWD (I might have settled for AWD). I had waited FIVE YEARS since I bought my first S2000 in March of 2000 before buying another new car - that's about 2 years longer than I wanted to. I was desperately hoping, and waiting, for something from Honda, but the time came when I could simply wait no longer.
Jeff and I (and the other core members of TOV) have a strong love for the Honda brand. We love the history of the company, its values and innovations, and the wonderful cars it has brought us. And while there are still great cars in the Honda brand, for some of us (and I can truly only speak for myself) who have continued to grow in both diversity of tastes and income, we feel like we've begun to grow apart from Honda. I want RWD (or at least AWD with a manual tranny). I want a sporting focus, and preferably a more serious high end sports car.
We all know that Honda can produce some awesome vehicles. The real Type-Rs continue to impress. The NSX and the S2000 are both works of automotive art - visually, mechanically and in terms of performance. But we haven't been given a Type-R in over 5 years. The S2000 has changed little since its inception and the NSX no longer exists. While I want RWD and some more serious hp, I'd even settle for a _real_ Civic Type-R right now - it would at least tide me over.
People like myself, Jeff and the others are provided a unique opportunity to tell the people inside Honda (and quite high up the food chain usually) what we think. And over the last couple years we have minced few words in telling them where they are letting us down (enthusiasts in general, US market in particular). I dearly hope that the future will bring us some vehicles that truly honor and reward the dedication of loyal Honda enthusiasts. I would much rather buy a Honda than virtually any other make on the market - as long as it at least comes close to meeting my needs (although the Porsche 997 GT3 is my current attainable dream car).
Anyways, I didn't intend to vent all this out, but this is something that has been building up for some time :)
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shingles
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I certainly understand the position you are in. I am a Honda guy... even my mower is powered by Honda... but two years ago, when we were looking for a sports sedan to replace my wife's RSX-S, we had to turn to someone other than the Honda. We bought a BMW E46 with the ZHP package. I wanted a RWD or AWD sedan with a manual transmission. Honda had NOTHING to offer me.
Recently, I needed another car... again I wanted a RWD or AWD manual sedan... honda still has nothing to offer me. Luckily for them, I test drove the Civic Si sedan. I do simply love the Si sedan... but I have to admit, this is only a "temporary" solution to the larger problem... I will still need a RWD or AWD manual sedan in the next 3-4 years. I am still hanging on to the hopes that Honda will finally provide me a choice. But to be honest, as big of a Honda fan as I am, I am not sure that they will have anything for me in 4 years... They might satisfy the AWD sedan part, but I have a feeling it will be much like the RL, automatic only.
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TMR013
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So Shawn, let me ask this. I also currently have an 05 S2000 and am thinking of going to a sports coupe in the next year or so. After seeing what this new Accord coupe can do and driving it, would you ever put aside the RWD bias and buy it?
I really like the new coupe (especially the HF-S concept), but am also disapointed in the FWD aspect. It is frustraiting.
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wrussi
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my sister has a 06 s2k i love every chance that i get to drive that car.
i love honda because of its engines i love the k series i love kpro i've tuned a k20a2 on an eg civic to 219 sae corrected whp so i know what honda engines are capable of. BUT the problem is the layout yeah the new TL type S and accord coupe have pretty awesome engines but powering the front wheels? imagine those engines powering the rear wheels somehow mmmm
if honda execs ever see this post here is 3 things that i would like to see from honda:
1. insight /crx revival
2. tl with RWD!!
3. RL go back to the original legend roots . make a true drivers luxury car with RWD
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CarPhreakD
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wrussi wrote:
my sister has a 06 s2k i love every chance that i get to drive that car.
i love honda because of its engines i love the k series i love kpro i've tuned a k20a2 on an eg civic to 219 sae corrected whp so i know what honda engines are capable of. BUT the problem is the layout yeah the new TL type S and accord coupe have pretty awesome engines but powering the front wheels? imagine those engines powering the rear wheels somehow mmmm
if honda execs ever see this post here is 3 things that i would like to see from honda:
1. insight /crx revival
2. tl with RWD!!
3. RL go back to the original legend roots . make a true drivers luxury car with RWD
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1. They're already doing that....
2. There's really no point in complaining about the current TL anymore because it's about to undergo a FMC. I'm hoping for RWD myself, so keep your eyes peeled for new information about it
3. What? The RL was traditionally FWD. I don't mind it having SH-AWD, but it should be bigger and have more power
And the Accord is a family vehicle. I can't imagine Honda making a RWD Accord "just because"... it's supposed to be a comfortable non-serious coupe
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notyper
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You know TMR013, I considered just that. My Infiniti lease is up in about a year and I'll need to get something new. One of the other reasons I bought the G35 was that I saw it as a good expanding market for my dyno business, so I wanted to really get to know the VQ35 engines. That same rationale has led me to considering a 335 or 135i next time around.
On the topic of the Accord though, as much as I think of the car, it isn't for me. The FWD would be a pain every time I wanted to accelerate hard, or take a fast corner. I threw Rae's car through some of my favorite on ramps which are multi-directional with elevation changes and strange camber. Where my S2000 would dance through, or my G35 would get a little drift on, the Accord was spinning up the inside tire something fierce. Not as bad as the old Accord mind you - Honda engineers have done a good job, but it still needs an LSD. Even if it had one though, I want a little more than it offers performance wise.
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330R
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Shawn, I agree wholehearedly with your venting post above. Since you mentioned yours and Jeff's ability to let the enthusiasts' feelings known to the Honda higher-ups, I have to ask - have you guys spoken to them about the FD2 Civic Type-R sedan? I can't emphasize enough how much I want this car to be available to us in North America. Any feedback from them?
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notyper
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Yes, Jeff has spoken to them extensively. We've got something coming up (hopefully very soon) that will allow everyone here to let Honda know just how important importing this car is to us. Be ready.
SC
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