|
|
|
|
 |
Karl O.
 |
|
I used to have an '02 RSX-S before my wife KO'D it, and one of the few disappointments was the exterior styling. It wasn't necessarily ugly, but it wasn't a beauty queen. The ass looked way too big even after I lowered the thing by 2".
I've seen a couple of 2005s but I didn't notice how drastic the trim changes really were until I saw two black RSXs together in traffic the other day- a new one and an old one. Both were tinted, and the old one was slammed on the factory wheels.
OMFG- the '05 is actually a really good looking car now, it made the old car look old. Every time I see '05 around town now my head swivels around involuntarily. I don't think I'd dump my '02 for a new one if it was still alive, but I gotta say the new styling has me pining for another RSX-S.
I think they should release an RSX with a K24 tuned to about 220hp. Add an LSD, decent tires, HIDs, LED taillights, spruce up the interior, and give it a decent stereo with XM and I'd be all over it.
Guess I'll be patiently waiting for a TSX coupe. I'm praying for a convertible version.
|
TonyEX
|
|
Right now it looks like we might be able to get a very low mileage 04 TSX AT5 for the same price as a brand new 05 RSX-S... and I'm wavering on the thin line....
Karl O. wrote:
I used to have an '02 RSX-S before my wife KO'D it, and one of the few disappointments was the exterior styling. It wasn't necessarily ugly, but it wasn't a beauty queen. The ass looked way too big even after I lowered the thing by 2".
I've seen a couple of 2005s but I didn't notice how drastic the trim changes really were until I saw two black RSXs together in traffic the other day- a new one and an old one. Both were tinted, and the old one was slammed on the factory wheels.
OMFG- the '05 is actually a really good looking car now, it made the old car look old. Every time I see '05 around town now my head swivels around involuntarily. I don't think I'd dump my '02 for a new one if it was still alive, but I gotta say the new styling has me pining for another RSX-S.
I think they should release an RSX with a K24 tuned to about 220hp. Add an LSD, decent tires, HIDs, LED taillights, spruce up the interior, and give it a decent stereo with XM and I'd be all over it.
Guess I'll be patiently waiting for a TSX coupe. I'm praying for a convertible version.
|
|
Karl O.
|
|
TonyE wrote:
Right now it looks like we might be able to get a very low mileage 04 TSX AT5 for the same price as a brand new 05 RSX-S... and I'm wavering on the thin line....
Karl O. wrote:
I used to have an '02 RSX-S before my wife KO'D it, and one of the few disappointments was the exterior styling. It wasn't necessarily ugly, but it wasn't a beauty queen. The ass looked way too big even after I lowered the thing by 2".
I've seen a couple of 2005s but I didn't notice how drastic the trim changes really were until I saw two black RSXs together in traffic the other day- a new one and an old one. Both were tinted, and the old one was slammed on the factory wheels.
OMFG- the '05 is actually a really good looking car now, it made the old car look old. Every time I see '05 around town now my head swivels around involuntarily. I don't think I'd dump my '02 for a new one if it was still alive, but I gotta say the new styling has me pining for another RSX-S.
I think they should release an RSX with a K24 tuned to about 220hp. Add an LSD, decent tires, HIDs, LED taillights, spruce up the interior, and give it a decent stereo with XM and I'd be all over it.
Guess I'll be patiently waiting for a TSX coupe. I'm praying for a convertible version.
|
|
Have you driven the 5AT much? We have a 6MT and it's not exactly a rocket. Make no mistake, we love our TSX. But if you are an RSX-S fan I can't imagine that you would be happy with the AT TSX.
My pops (60 yrs old) just bought a G35 (yeah, yeah, I tried to push him into a TL, but he still has a mint '72 240Z parked in his basment and has this weird Nissan thing) with the auto trans because his wife can't operate a manual trans. It's his first auto and every day I get a bitchy e-mail about how he would be happier with a six speed and a different wife.
Heh-heh, my wife loves driving the manual trans.
|
hondaracer
|
|
Karl O. wrote:
TonyE wrote:
Right now it looks like we might be able to get a very low mileage 04 TSX AT5 for the same price as a brand new 05 RSX-S... and I'm wavering on the thin line....
Karl O. wrote:
I used to have an '02 RSX-S before my wife KO'D it, and one of the few disappointments was the exterior styling. It wasn't necessarily ugly, but it wasn't a beauty queen. The ass looked way too big even after I lowered the thing by 2".
I've seen a couple of 2005s but I didn't notice how drastic the trim changes really were until I saw two black RSXs together in traffic the other day- a new one and an old one. Both were tinted, and the old one was slammed on the factory wheels.
OMFG- the '05 is actually a really good looking car now, it made the old car look old. Every time I see '05 around town now my head swivels around involuntarily. I don't think I'd dump my '02 for a new one if it was still alive, but I gotta say the new styling has me pining for another RSX-S.
I think they should release an RSX with a K24 tuned to about 220hp. Add an LSD, decent tires, HIDs, LED taillights, spruce up the interior, and give it a decent stereo with XM and I'd be all over it.
Guess I'll be patiently waiting for a TSX coupe. I'm praying for a convertible version.
|
|
Have you driven the 5AT much? We have a 6MT and it's not exactly a rocket. Make no mistake, we love our TSX. But if you are an RSX-S fan I can't imagine that you would be happy with the AT TSX.
My pops (60 yrs old) just bought a G35 (yeah, yeah, I tried to push him into a TL, but he still has a mint '72 240Z parked in his basment and has this weird Nissan thing) with the auto trans because his wife can't operate a manual trans. It's his first auto and every day I get a bitchy e-mail about how he would be happier with a six speed and a different wife.
Heh-heh, my wife loves driving the manual trans.
|
i'm with you. i finally got around to test driving a TSX a couple months ago, and can say that even the six speed would probably not scratch the speed itch.
however, i test drove an '05 RSX-S the same evening, and...ahhhhhh... how nice. it's been too long (a year) since i traded my '02 for the S2000, so i couldn't really 'feel' the difference between the '02 and the '05, but i CAN say that the Type S would suffice if the S2k had to go, but the TSX would not.
|
carcrazy84
|
|
| I think they should release an RSX with a K24 tuned to about 220hp. |
Dont know about that, but Motor Trend says the RXS-S will get another bump to 215 hp next year.
|
TonyEX
|
|
Yes. I've driven both the MT6 and AT5 TSX.
The thing is that we replaced the RSX-S with an Accord EX V6 MT6 Coupe. And that's a fast one.
So now, we're thinking of replacing the Si before the model changes. Mind you, I'm very happy with the Si.. it has low payments and it's a great commuter, but if I sell it now I'll get a better resale value.
And the TSX is as fast as the Si. And it has a very nice interior of which I'm very fond. This would be MY daily driver and having a four door alongside the coupe and Odyssey would be nice... I mean, we could take the sedan instead of the van. Eh?
And we had an 03 RSX-S for two years. I understand the new 05 is much better.. my sister just traded her 02 for an 05 and they love it. (BTW, my brother in law drives an 04 TSX AT and he loves it too).
See my point? On one hand, the TSX is new to us. Slower than the RSX-S yes, but new, and with a good resale value
Yet the RSX-S is a hoot.. but then -in its own way- so is the Accord (as soon as I get my mitts on it tomorrow... so far my wife has owned it for two days).
Of course, I could update the wheels and tires and do a Hondata chip on the Si.. after all, it only has 17K miles.
Karl O. wrote:
TonyE wrote:
Right now it looks like we might be able to get a very low mileage 04 TSX AT5 for the same price as a brand new 05 RSX-S... and I'm wavering on the thin line....
|
Have you driven the 5AT much? We have a 6MT and it's not exactly a rocket. Make no mistake, we love our TSX. But if you are an RSX-S fan I can't imagine that you would be happy with the AT TSX.
My pops (60 yrs old) just bought a G35 (yeah, yeah, I tried to push him into a TL, but he still has a mint '72 240Z parked in his basment and has this weird Nissan thing) with the auto trans because his wife can't operate a manual trans. It's his first auto and every day I get a bitchy e-mail about how he would be happier with a six speed and a different wife.
Heh-heh, my wife loves driving the manual trans.
|
|
Demitri434
|
|
|
Honda needs to stop fucking around and give us a Type-R.
|
typesean
|
|
Demitri434 wrote:
Honda needs to stop fucking around and give us a Type-R.
|
Amen brother!
|
IntegraDC5R
|
|
Demitri434 wrote:
Honda needs to stop fucking around and give us a Type-R.
|
They do, I'm pretty sure of it, as I own one. Oh yeah, I live here in the motherland of Honda. :P
|
Demitri434
|
|
|
you lucky bastard.
|
pat-mtl-itr
|
|
Demitri434 wrote:
Honda needs to stop fucking around and give us a Type-R.
|
LOL :-)))
So direct and so true. Too funny! Thumbs up Demitri434. ;-)
|
Souchirou
|
|
Demitri434 wrote:
Honda needs to stop fucking around and give us a Type-R.
|
you know i hate to rain on you guys, but the US of A will most likely never get a chance to see a type-R being brought in by AHM.
Honda takes pride in every engine they produce outta the factory. Especially the ones that are designated to go into the one's with the R badges.
Every engine is painstakingly tuned by a different fella/techie until he is satisfied with it before going on to the next. Thing is. America is sooo huge. With a type-R of any model, its going to blow the competition and rocket sales to a new level. How are these people going to keep up with the what-will-be-a-huge demand for the red Honda badges when they can only work enough to feed their own population's demands?
Honda's also not going to train anyone to tune a type-R engine.
It has to be perfect. Japanese Honda standard perfect.
|
RyanDL
|
|
Souchirou wrote:
you know i hate to rain on you guys, but the US of A will most likely never get a chance to see a type-R being brought in by AHM.
|
I hate to rain on your parade, but we received about 500 copies per year of the Integra Type-R from MY97 to MY01. So there's not a real reason why they couldn't bring over other models/generations.
Ryan
|
danielgr
|
|
Souchirou wrote:
Demitri434 wrote:
Honda needs to stop fucking around and give us a Type-R.
|
you know i hate to rain on you guys, but the US of A will most likely never get a chance to see a type-R being brought in by AHM.
Honda takes pride in every engine they produce outta the factory. Especially the ones that are designated to go into the one's with the R badges.
Every engine is painstakingly tuned by a different fella/techie until he is satisfied with it before going on to the next. Thing is. America is sooo huge. With a type-R of any model, its going to blow the competition and rocket sales to a new level. How are these people going to keep up with the what-will-be-a-huge demand for the red Honda badges when they can only work enough to feed their own population's demands?
Honda's also not going to train anyone to tune a type-R engine.
It has to be perfect. Japanese Honda standard perfect.
|
Well, I don't think that American's RSX lacks the ITR engine... Of course it may have 10more Hp at higher revs but... that would not make a real difference.
What they are lacking is the "R" treatment. They lack the LSD, they lack the Recaros, the weight saving measures, the Brembos, the rear wing, etc.
If Honda does not bring it to the US it may be for many reasons as for example:
1st) It does not fit anymore with the "luxury-sports" image they want for Acura. Actually, even the fully equiped and "refined" RSX is already falling short on that department. That may be the reason why they may not replace it. It does not even fit with American Honda "safety for everyone" campaign.
2nd) They think that there is not a real market for such a car ni the US. And they are not going to import a car to sell a hundred of units per month from Japan. Not a car that would not provide any special Hallo effect on its Acura line-up.
If you think about it, the ITR place should be on the Honda line-up. And there you have the new Civic Si, which I bet is the closest car to the ITR that American Honda is going to sell. And I would not be suprised if this new generation Civic is able to outperform the current ITR. It may be a little too heavy though, given the fact that Honda is not going to cut on safety with it. We'll see.
I am not saying that those are the reasons... but they could be. Because there is nothing that prevents them from bringing an RSX with same drivetrain + "R" treatment.
|
Souchirou
|
|
RyanDL wrote:
Souchirou wrote:
you know i hate to rain on you guys, but the US of A will most likely never get a chance to see a type-R being brought in by AHM.
|
I hate to rain on your parade, but we received about 500 copies per year of the Integra Type-R from MY97 to MY01. So there's not a real reason why they couldn't bring over other models/generations.
Ryan
|
dude i'm not sure i understand you. care to explain more specifically?
cheers.
|
danielgr
|
|
Souchirou wrote:
RyanDL wrote:
Souchirou wrote:
you know i hate to rain on you guys, but the US of A will most likely never get a chance to see a type-R being brought in by AHM.
|
I hate to rain on your parade, but we received about 500 copies per year of the Integra Type-R from MY97 to MY01. So there's not a real reason why they couldn't bring over other models/generations.
Ryan
|
dude i'm not sure i understand you. care to explain more specifically?
cheers.
|
I think that he is saying something like : "Honda has done it in the past, so there is nothing to prove that it won't be done in the future".
|
RyanDL
|
|
Souchirou wrote:
dude i'm not sure i understand you. care to explain more specifically?
|
I thought I was pretty clear...
The 3rd generation Integra was sold here in the US with a genuine Type-R model from model years 1997 to 2001. It was essentially the same as the Japanese models. Since AHM has sold the Type-R models in the US in the past, it sets a precedent for them to potentially do so in the future. However, I agree with danielgr and have my own reservations about any current or future Type-R models being offered here. They don't really fit the business model for Acura anymore, unfortunately.
Make sense?
Ryan
|
LudegarH22A7
|
|
Souchirou-
Building a type-r is nowhere near as labor intensive as it used to be... it's just parts swapping and some weight reduction measures. The import of such a vehicle is simply a marketing issue... The best you could have hoped for was RSX sales tanking thus necessitating a sales revival. Since that has not occured and the upcoming release of the Si coupe has come about, I believe we can whole-heartedly relinquish our USDM type-R hopes. I for one am highly anticipating the Si. The three deterrents which could come about:
1) poor HP to weight ratio
2) dealer mark-up
3) stupid high lease rates
4) stupid high insurance
Also, you best believe... the Si coupe will be a highly coveted vehicle outside of North America. Hopefully we'll be singing,
"We are the Champions, My Friends...dun..dun.. and we'll keep on fighting, till the end... dun.. dun.."
jak
|
Souchirou
|
|
RyanDL wrote:
Souchirou wrote:
dude i'm not sure i understand you. care to explain more specifically?
|
I thought I was pretty clear...
The 3rd generation Integra was sold here in the US with a genuine Type-R model from model years 1997 to 2001. It was essentially the same as the Japanese models. Since AHM has sold the Type-R models in the US in the past, it sets a precedent for them to potentially do so in the future. However, I agree with danielgr and have my own reservations about any current or future Type-R models being offered here. They don't really fit the business model for Acura anymore, unfortunately.
Make sense?
Ryan
|
Firstly, I think it is not accurate to say that just because "AHM has sold the Type-R models in the US in the past, it sets a precedent for them to potentially do so in the future."
Okay, so things change over the years, and guess what? some current models no longer fit the business model for Acura anymore. Granted.
Though correct me if i'm mistaken. but we're only talking the Integra here ain't it? Which means that, the JDM Accord type-R (aka TSX w/o "R" treatment), current Civic type-R and the almighty NSX-R do not actually get a chance to set "foot-tire-whatever" on American soil.
Okay, argument may be consistent over the JDM Accord type-R with Integra/RSX in which it does not fit the business model and such. Again granted, though with a big question mark hanging over it.
What bout the Civic then? Why is it that there is a special version dubbed the "Si" for the American market? With just 15 less ponies, it does not make sense to me to "create" a new sort of version when based on track record, they could have just brought in the teg on precedent. Mind you, the teg type-R has only 10 more ponies than the RSX-S, and the TSX to the Accord type-R with 20.
yep, we're looking at the line-up and engines as a whole.
would love to hear your reservations regarding this as there's more than just surface stuff that does not make sense (to me, anyways).
cheers dude.. ;)
|
Souchirou
|
|
LudegarH22A7 wrote:
Souchirou-
Building a type-r is nowhere near as labor intensive as it used to be... it's just parts swapping and some weight reduction measures. The import of such a vehicle is simply a marketing issue... The best you could have hoped for was RSX sales tanking thus necessitating a sales revival. Since that has not occured and the upcoming release of the Si coupe has come about, I believe we can whole-heartedly relinquish our USDM type-R hopes. I for one am highly anticipating the Si. The three deterrents which could come about:
1) poor HP to weight ratio
2) dealer mark-up
3) stupid high lease rates
4) stupid high insurance
Also, you best believe... the Si coupe will be a highly coveted vehicle outside of North America. Hopefully we'll be singing,
"We are the Champions, My Friends...dun..dun.. and we'll keep on fighting, till the end... dun.. dun.."
jak
|
Hey yo LudegarH22A7,
yea prolly you're right that its nowhere as labor intensive as it used to be. But the Japs will still insist on certain things done to their perfection my guess is. Like the RL's seats and gears and engines.
it might not be as labor intensive, but branding a type-R or Legend/RL as it is, is no mickey mouse stuff either.
I am too eagarly awaiting the arrival of the new "Si". I believe it'll be a hoot in more ways than one. Just prolly not as raw as the genuine type-R's as with the reasons you have stated. but like danielgr said, "we'll see".
For now, yea lets just hope,
"We are the Champions, My Friends...dun..dun.. and we'll keep on fighting, till the end... dun.. dun.."
cheers ma man ;)
|
RyanDL
|
|
Souchirou wrote:
What bout the Civic then? Why is it that there is a special version dubbed the "Si" for the American market? With just 15 less ponies, it does not make sense to me to "create" a new sort of version when based on track record, they could have just brought in the teg on precedent. Mind you, the teg type-R has only 10 more ponies than the RSX-S, and the TSX to the Accord type-R with 20.
yep, we're looking at the line-up and engines as a whole.
would love to hear your reservations regarding this as there's more than just surface stuff that does not make sense (to me, anyways).
cheers dude.. ;)
|
There are a few things to consider when importing a Type-R model:
1) Emissions - The Type-R engines run higher compression ratios and more revs while also using freer flowing intakes and exhausts. This increases emissions and the US regulations are tighter than those of Japanese and European government agencies.
2) Fuel Octane - Along similar lines as the above, our fuel octane is slightly lower and not all areas in the country have minimum octane ratings for our currently offerred vehicles, nevermind Type-R models.
3) Crash Testing - Since the Type-R models have different ride heights than the other models, they need to be crash tested and certified. This is an expensive process for a low volume model.
4) Insurance Rates - The insurance on the RSX-S and Civic Si are already quite high and they're mass produced models sold in the many thousands per year (though Honda would certainly like to be selling many more). With a drastically more limited model available, insurance for it would be even higher, making it unattractive to lots of potential buyers.
5) Brand Image - Type-R models are raw, loud, rough riding, and have few compromises. That's not what Acura is about these days and I'm not sure their marketing department wants such a vehicle being touted as a halo for a particular model when luxury is the last thing on the R's mind.
That said...
The Civic Si is sold in both the US and Canada (SiR in CA). It sells in far higher numbers than a Type-R model and doesn't have the no nonsense soul of the R. Essentially, it's a mass produced "sporty" model of a Civic. Just because we don't get the authentic Type-R here in the US doesn't mean we don't value our performance models. Where the current Civic Si fumbled, I'm confident the new Si will carry the model's torch proudly, especially since it will need to fill the gap when the RSX-S bows.
Also, the Civic Si was around before there was any Type-R. It has deeper roots than the Type-R, so killing the Si model wouldn't make much sense. Essentially, Si is to Civic as Type-S is to RSX. While it seems weird for Honda to be cancelling the Integra/RSX, in a way it makes sense. The Integra/RSX and Civic have been growing closer together from almost every standpoint with each revision. Currently, there isn't much difference between the present Civic Type-R and Integra Type-R. Both models are basically being merged together and the Civic has seniority, so it gets to keep the name.
By the way, as was previously mentioned, the Type-R is far more than just engine. It's about engine, suspension, light weight, etc. working together as a whole to create the finest factory available turn-key performance machine.
Ryan
|
05VividBlueTypeS
|
|
|
I have an 05 RSX Type S, and I love it. I have driven many TSX's and I love that car, but if you want an overall fun to drive car...RSX Type S all the way. I hated RSX's till 05 the improvements from previous yrs will really stand out when you see one in person (Especially the Vivid Blue Pearl RSX's)
|
willowwater
|
|
You broke it down man!
It all boils down to one thing.
1) Philosophy - RSX now seems to slip outside the current Acura mindset. I love my 2004 Milano RSX (and so do the girls). Maybe it will be reincarnated later when market forces and Acura attitude changes. Damn, I'm still keeping hope alive for the rebirth of the CRX (lost my baby in hurricane Frances and I'm still in mourning).
Oh I miss that car! (sob, sniffle)
|
Mechanic
|
|
Ryan DL, Souchinou: I'm coming in late on this one, but I think you both have a point. Souchinou I agree with you that the Type Rs are unique (in both Acura and Civic versions), and thus hard to economically produce for multiple markets.
Ryan: Your point that HMC did it before cuts both ways. If I remember correctly, the Acura Type R sold "ok," but it wasn't a barnburner. Any "R" is a unique product. While lots of web posters insist that they want such a car, when in comes time to actually pony up the bucks they suddenly want a car that's $2k cheaper, or has a more compliant suspension system, or can easily accommodate a baby seat, etc. Insurance and financing are also often significant issues for the demographic drawn to these cars.
It will be interesting to see whether HMC actually markets the "Chicago Civic" with what is essentially Type S running gear. That's probably as close as we are going to get to the "R's" you remember.
|
JeffX
|
|
Mechanic wrote:
Ryan DL, Souchinou: I'm coming in late on this one, but I think you both have a point. Souchinou I agree with you that the Type Rs are unique (in both Acura and Civic versions), and thus hard to economically produce for multiple markets.
Ryan: Your point that HMC did it before cuts both ways. If I remember correctly, the Acura Type R sold "ok," but it wasn't a barnburner. Any "R" is a unique product. While lots of web posters insist that they want such a car, when in comes time to actually pony up the bucks they suddenly want a car that's $2k cheaper, or has a more compliant suspension system, or can easily accommodate a baby seat, etc. Insurance and financing are also often significant issues for the demographic drawn to these cars.
It will be interesting to see whether HMC actually markets the "Chicago Civic" with what is essentially Type S running gear. That's probably as close as we are going to get to the "R's" you remember.
|
the thing to consider beyond sales figures for the "R" itself was the halo effect it carried on the entire Integra lineup. Don't forget the Integra debuted in mid '93 as a '94 model and the R didn't make it here until calendar year 1997. By that point the Integra should have been completely redesigned and sales should have been tanking, but they weren't. In fact, sales were strong and continued to be strong for several more years. Certainly the availability of the "R" model helped propel sales of the lesser models as well.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Thread Page - [1] |
| |
|
![[home]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/home.gif){kind=small}
![[rumors and news]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/rumors.gif){kind=small}
![[model release matrix]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/newmodelreleasematrix.gif){kind=small}
![[dealer network]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/dealernet.gif){kind=small}
![[desktop calendar]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/calendar.gif){kind=small}
![[exhaust notes]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/exhaust.gif){kind=small}
![[tov forums]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/forums.gif){kind=small}
![[links]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/links.gif){kind=small}
![[search]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/search.gif){kind=small}
![[sponsors]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/sponsors.gif){kind=small}
![[garage]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/garage.gif){kind=small}
![[login]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/login.gif){kind=small}
