crxdelsol
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"Turbo" and "Honda" don't get along! This has to be fake!!!
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mrvtec
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Not true... in the 1980s Honda were turbo Pioneers- inventing the variable-van turbo to massively reduce turbo lag. This was necessitated by extracting over 1200hp from their 1.5 V6 at one point around in 1987.
Honda have just started building their own (turbo)diesel engine and it is recieving plaudits in Europe where diesels are catching up with sales of petrol cars.
Also in the JGTC racing series, there was a rule change this year that puts the n/a NSXs at a massive disadvantage.
I suspect they are a bit annoyed about that and have decided to build a turbo NSX and completely murder everyone.
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bref
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Honda is getting healthier in Europe, because of turbo.
After the brilliant iCTDi Accord, we are waiting for the CR-V and the FR-V with this 100% Honda all alloy common rail turbo diesel engine. In a couple of years, more tan 50% of the cars sold here will be turbo (diesel) powered.
On Japanese market, High grade 656cc Kei-Jidosha are equipped with a turbo since the Z, after years of high revying 656cc. The P07 engine is still rated 64hp, but at 6000rpm instead of 8100rpm with the "Beat"
The 1984 city turbo II 110hp "Bulldog" was better all around than the CRX Si and Honda won 1986, 1987, 1988 constructor's worlchampionship with turbo.
But, well, I'm not ready to this idea...
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CivicSi-gCanada
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Try a 1982 CX500TC Motorcycle!!!
497cc OHV LIQUID-COOLED TURBOCHARGED V-TWIN
There's one in our showroom right now!
-Lance
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civic_cx_92
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CivicSi-gCanada wrote:
Try a 1982 CX500TC Motorcycle!!!
497cc OHV LIQUID-COOLED TURBOCHARGED V-TWIN
There's one in our showroom right now!
-Lance
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I remember Honda CX 650 turbo, electronic ignition and fuel injection in 1983.
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nuclrxn
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Why do you say Turbo and Honda don't get along? Why do people talk as if they KNOW what Honda's doing? If turbo is what Honda wants to put in their cars, fine. They as a company aren't limited to all-motor configs.
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Honda Meek
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Fukui had an interview in the Wall Street Journal recently saying Honda has gotten too predictable, too safe, too much like Toyota, Honda should do things no one would expect. Is he talking about going against Honda philosophy or talking about nonautomotive applications? Whatever the case, I can't wait to see.
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carmaniac
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mrvtec wrote:
Also in the JGTC racing series, there was a rule change this year that puts the n/a NSXs at a massive disadvantage.
I suspect they are a bit annoyed about that and have decided to build a turbo NSX and completely murder everyone.
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The NSXes in the JGTC are no longer N/A, they changed to turbo 3.0L V6s in 2004, but haven't been doing so well.
I actually suspect that the engine they're using in JGTC now will share a lot of similarities with the new NSX's engine to provide Honda with homologation.
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Wizard
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This IS Turbo AND Honda AND V8
BTW, thats the Turbo charged 2.7-liter V8 that helped Honda with years of domination in CART in the late 90s. So, after the turbo experience in 1980s F1, the 1990s brought in the formula to CART.
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WongKN
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While Honda pioneered high specific powered NA motors via their VTEC engines, they have never put any official statement about NA vs FI. There might be preferences or directions but Honda is not officially against turbo in any way. If they don't use turbo, then its simply because they feel their NA application gets the job done better / more effectively. If they feel turbo can do something else better, they will readily adopt it. So it all depends on the design objectives and targets and what Honda strives out to acheive.
Besides racing, where we have plenty of turbocharged Honda race cars, Le-Mans 24hour GT1 NSX, JGTC NSX (TwinTurbos), CART, F1 (1988 era), there have also been plenty of turbocharged Honda models. The most famous is the likeable Honda City Turbo and City Turbo-II. Currently there's also a couple of mini/K cars that are turbocharged - the Honda Life Turbo for e.g. A few years ago I featured the little Honda Z Turbo on TOVA. Back in the 1990s, the JDM used to have a turbocharged Legend, a 2.0l Turbo Intercooler delivering 190ps. So somehow Honda seems to always have at least 1 turbocharged model in their JDM line-up.
In any case, if there's one thing that we want to dig out that defines Honda, it can only be their legendary principle 'Man Maximum Machine Minimum'. Or their mottos 'The Power of Dreams' and 'We LOVE Racing'. Nothing else can ever be said to define Honda like these three statements. Note that none of them ever says anything about the machine. It's all about the HUMAN.
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hondacrazy
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WongKN wrote:
... Honda is not officially against turbo in any way ...
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If I remember correct, around '93-94, the ad for Prelude Vtec version on the magazines, Honda used the title, "Turbo is Dumbo" and explained why Vtec is better, blah blah,...
I don't know if this is against turbo, but at that time I was thinking Honda will never ever make turbocharged production cars after they stated that officially.
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WongKN
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I am not aware of such an ad. Perhaps if someone can dig it up and scan and post it.
Bear in mind that often Honda outsources their ads and PR and they have not been known to always select the best persons for the job. Honda Malaysia for e.g. selected an ads agency who thinks that the best slogan for the new Odyssey is 'sometimes its a sports car' and consequently got blasted with so many questions from the motoring media during their Odyssey media test-drive event that they actually gave up and told them 'it's our ad agency who came up with that idea'.
Let me put it this way. I have asked more than 1 Honda R&D engineer from Tochigi and R&D in Asia (Thailand). And mind you these are the guys who are 'Large Project Leaders', i.e. lead engineer in charge of designs like Jazz, Civic, etc. And I asked them the direct question if Honda has any official policy for NA vs FI and the answers have always been 'NO'.
So people can decide what they want to make of it, make wild guesses, etc. But for me, I don't see any reason not to accept the answer at face value. Honda does NOT have any official policy regarding turbo and NA in anyway at all.
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Art of Snow
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I'm pretty sure you'll see more and more turbo Honda engines in the future.
As already mentionned, there's the very successful turbo diesel engine (the 2.2 i-CTDi) for Europe ... but I'm sure they'll start providing turbo gasoline engines.
I think they've pushed the design of the non-turbo engine as much as possible with the i-VTEC engine. The next step is direct fuel injection but then you start loosing torque.
The only way to increase your torque (because you have to, as cars get heavier and heavier) is to add a turbo.
So I predict turbo i-VTEC I engines in the near future (to compete with the TFSI engines from Volkswagen and Audi) at least for Japan and Europe. They'll probably push more for VCM and Hybrid in the US.
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RayChuang
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Art of Snow wrote:
I'm pretty sure you'll see more and more turbo Honda engines in the future.
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I have my doubts.
After all, Honda managed to get 270 bhp out of a 3.0 liter V-6 engine with first-generation VTEC technology! With i-VTEC and 3.5 liters, Honda could probably get around 370 bhp out the engine easily. Combine 370 bhp with a very light weight body and you'll have one very fast car, at least as fast as the current Porsche 911 Carrera S.
By the way, Honda did dabble with turbochargers for passenger cars in the past; the best example of this was the first-generation Honda City Turbo from the middle 1980's. However, with i-VTEC, using turbochargers is not so necessary for petrol-fuelled engines. For the 2.2-liter I-4 i-CTDi turbodiesel, it does need a turbocharger due to the fact diesel engines tend to be a bit weak on power at higher rev ranges.
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Brandtson
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i vaguely remember something of that fact. i also read on one of the honda websites that it said their philosophy is by making high output low displacement engines without using a turbo blah blah.
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Wizard
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Yes, it is. Honda has shown plenty of experience with turbo as well as high revving normally aspirated engines. Now, they may be thinking about union of the two... a high revving V8 mated to a nice little turbo as an icing to the cake. Not a bad idea.
crxdelsol wrote:
"Turbo" and "Honda" don't get along! This has to be fake!!!
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nzbarginhunter1
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Why would that add wait and turbo lag not to mention extra fuel consumption. When my JDM type R in New Zealand is quicker in acceration than a EVO or STI it doesnt make sense. They dont need a turbo to make 500hp they just need a 4.5 V8.
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LINCOLN
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Yes, Honda has not shown much interest in turbo engines. However honda is first to innovate variable geometry(variable vane) turbo. since honda has its own high tech petrol engines, for a diesel engine to have more thermal efficieny with the principle it is working on i.e., comrpression ignition, turbo will give more boost hence more output.
Honda's 2.2 ictdi engine is one of its kind which has rocked the sales of honda in Europe. one must understand that diesel is the fuel of future. I mean to say compression ignition engine. with its capability to use bio fuels & latest technology to reduce the NOx, PM & CO2 it is going to help the developing countries. In india the use of Bio Fuel derivated from Jatropha plants being used to run trains in eastern part of the country. This is not only going to improve the living standards/economy of people in the rural areas but also the CO2 emmited from exhaust being used by the plant in photosynthesis cycle. This drive was started by Daimler Chrysler in India, which tested its own diesel passenger car & initiated a program with the local government to promote jatropha plantations.
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