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mellifluous
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My parent's bought a Honda Accord LX sedan last year. The car dealership supposedly gave my parents a good deal. Now, I think that dealership is gouging them with service and maintenance charges that I think are digustingly expensive and one that I don't think they should be charging them.
First, they're charging my mom and dad $30.00 for an oil change every 3000 miles. I Honda engines needed oil changes every 7500 miles for interstate driving and around 5000 miles for mixed driving. I have no problem with an oil change every 3000 miles since it's ingrained in our auto culture that that is set in stone. I have problem with how much they are charging. Getting the local Chevrolet dealership to change my oil is $23.00 but the Honda dealership is charging $30.00? that sounds kinda steep.
My biggest issue is that every 7500 miles the engine check lights up and for the dealership to scan the car with its computer they charged my parents $100.00 . They paid for it because they thought it was due to it being a Honda. That didn't sit well in my stomach because on the rare occasion that the Grand Prix needed its computer scanned to find what the code was, the Chevy and Pontiac dealerhsips did the scan for free and everything was resolved under the warranty.
Long story short, my parents spent over $150.00 for oil changes and $200.00 to get the car scanned for their Honda. The Grand Prix has served me well and been significantly cheaper in terms of general maintenace.
Now, my question is if my parents and other people using that dealership are getting screwed by that dealership?
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iivtecracerii
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dealerships always charge high prices for oil changes. i've seen an oil change at our dodge dealer for 90+ dollars (!) we always chage it ourselves. and there is no law requireing you to follow what the dealer reccommends or tells you to do. if you want to get it changed at 7500 miles, then bring it in at 7500 miles.
also you can also goto any honda, or acura dealer for that matter, for oil change/maintenance, not just the one you bought it from. so call around for the best price.
if the "check engine" light comes on regularly at 7500 miles and there isnt anything wrong with the car, are you sure its not the "Maint Req'd" light? now that would be completely ripping you off they should reset it when you bring it in for service. that light is to remind you to take it in for oil changes / scheduled maintenance and can be easily reset by yourself. check the owners manual.
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mellifluous
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I'm not sure exactly if it's the maint req'd light. My parents told me that it was a light that was always blinking a bit longer that the others. It coming on around I have wait until my mom comes home to verify that.
I know that we can go to another dealership. I've done that with the Grand Prix for some time now. That's what I'm trying to tell my parents.
I wonder what recourse I have as this is rediculous.
Thanks for the info. :)
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mellifluous
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iivtecracerii wrote:
also you can also goto any honda, or acura dealer for that matter, for oil change/maintenance, not just the one you bought it from. so call around for the best price.
if the "check engine" light comes on regularly at 7500 miles and there isnt anything wrong with the car, are you sure its not the "Maint Req'd" light? now that would be completely ripping you off they should reset it when you bring it in for service. that light is to remind you to take it in for oil changes / scheduled maintenance and can be easily reset by yourself. check the owners manual.
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i just talked to my mom. It was the maint req'd light. I resetted the light the light and will be talking to Bob Rohrman's Shaumburg Honda to see if we can resolve this issue. If not, my family and I will be writing Honda America and will be looking for other people who feel they were taken by them. My mom's extremely pissed after I told her the news.
It looks like I'll be doing my parent's oil changes OR taking it to another dealership.
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TonyEX
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Woah there partner.... That Accord is on a 7500 mile interval schedule. The check maintenance light will blink when you first start the engine around 500 miles or so before the scheduled maintenance and then it will stay on when the threshold is passed.
The dealership ain't charging for resetting the light, they're charging for the maintenance proper. If you think the 7500 mile charge of 200 bucks is steep, you better sit down when the charges come in for the 15K, 30K, 45K and 60K service jobs. God forbid your parents see the light at 90K miles and have to fork so much money to have the light reset while the timing belt is changed at no cost.
Otherwise, changing the oil at 3000 mi intervals isn't really necessary, but 30 bucks isn't that expensive at all.
Other than that, please read the Honda Owner's manual and read the maintenance work order before you go make a fool of yourself.
And good luck when your Pontiac hits 60K miles -if it ever does.
mellifluous wrote:
i just talked to my mom. It was the maint req'd light. I resetted the light the light and will be talking to Bob Rohrman's Shaumburg Honda to see if we can resolve this issue. If not, my family and I will be writing Honda America and will be looking for other people who feel they were taken by them. My mom's extremely pissed after I told her the news.
It looks like I'll be doing my parent's oil changes OR taking it to another dealership.
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Last edited by TonyEX on 09-01-2003 02:08
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Power Of Dreams
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Be easy on the boy, Antoine :)
Here's a good link to see what you need for your Honda:
http://www.honaccurate.com/honda_maintenance.shtml
Always check the service invoice and compare prices from dealers in your area. Since you own a Honda, you should be receiving service flyers in the mail from dealers in your area. Read them, because they often contain coupons for service and parts discounts.
As for the oil changes, you can do them yourself. Just keep receipts of all items purchased (oil, filter, etc) and write a record of date and mileage the oil was changed in a logbook.
Last edited by RyanDL on 09-05-2003 17:04
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mellifluous
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Tony E,
I find your post very rude and insulting to my character and my intelligence. I will address your post point by point.
TonyE wrote:
Woah there partner.... That Accord is on a 7500 mile interval schedule. The check maintenance light will blink when you first start the engine around 500 miles or so before the scheduled maintenance and then it will stay on when the threshold is passed.
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I am aware that the Accord is on at 7500 mile interval schedule which is why I posted this topic in the first place. A direct quote from my previous post which is slightly edited due to a typo, "I remember Honda engines needed oil changes every 7500 miles for interstate driving and around 5000 miles for mixed driving." I didn't have the owners manual at the time of my post as my mom was at work. Again, this was alluded to in my original post.
The dealership ain't charging for resetting the light, they're charging for the maintenance proper. If you think the 7500 mile charge of 200 bucks is steep, you better sit down when the charges come in for the 15K, 30K, 45K and 60K service jobs. God forbid your parents see the light at 90K miles and have to fork so much money to have the light reset while the timing belt is changed at no cost.
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I am surprised that this dealership in question charged my family this amount of money to scan the car to look for codes causing this 'problem.' I initially thought that the car's check engine light was alerting my parents of a problem. My father sent the car in for this 'problem,' not to get general maintenance done. As this car is under warranty, one would assume that the dealership would do run a scan at no charge. Pontiac did this for us when a similar light went off. We discovered it was an issue with the gas cap and they fixed it under warranty.
The Pontiac dealership did a couple of free inspections for our car and asked if we were satisfied with it. If they found anything, they'd tell us and give us the choice to get the work done or not. Silly me would inspect the car myself before taking it in at my parent's request and inspecting the work later to see if they did it or not.
My parents indicate that all they did was run a scan on the car to look for any codes. They did not rotate the wheels, inspect the exhaust, or any of the services mentioned in the manual or the fine website that Power of Dreams Posted.
My disclaimer:
Previous Hondas in our family have been pre-owned so we have never followed the official maintenance guidelines. There are still in used by our family or they have a home elsewhere nearby. Because this car is under warranty my parents decided to go to this specific dealer to get work done since they purchased it from them. Based on my past experiences with other dealerships of other brands (which have been GM), I felt that my parents were being taken advantage of since they are paying significantly more money than the Grand Prix's maintenace. Another quote by me from my original post. "Now, my question is if my parents and other people using that dealership are getting screwed by that dealership?"
Looking at the maintenance schedule of the car makes me wonder about the durability of Hondas. Is it because of this grueling maintanence schedule or is it due to superior engineering and parts. I honestly do believe the Honda makes a great car but sometimes you have to wonder.
Otherwise, changing the oil at 3000 mi intervals isn't really necessary, but 30 bucks isn't that expensive at all.
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I believe I said that already in my first post. "I have no problem with an oil change every 3000 miles since it's ingrained in our auto culture that that is set in stone. I have problem with how much they are charging."
Thirty dollars is expensive compared to a twenty-three dollar oil change for a GM dealership. That's why I asked if this was normal for a Honda dealership to charge.
Other than that, please read the Honda Owner's manual and read the maintenance work order before you go make a fool of yourself.
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Perhaps I am a fool, but the fool gets the last laugh in the end.
And good luck when your Pontiac hits 60K miles -if it ever does.
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The Pontiac hit 60,000 some time ago thank you very much... All that needed replaced under warranty was a gas cap, the oil changes every ~3000mi, PCV valve changed at my request and changing the air filter. There are no oil leaks, no handling problems, and no drivetrain problems. The car is still straight and there is very little rusting. Both cars are garage kept and the exhaust on the Honda shows signs of rust on the exhaust.
Quotables for you to attack me with:
I admit that the US manufactured and designed cars were horrid in the 1980s and the early nineties. On the design front, Chrysler made its comeback with their caravans. Ford's savior was the Taurus. In terms of design and quality, GM started their comeback with the Chevy Lumina. They're extremely close in terms of quality in terms of the European manufacturers today. They're not quite there yet on many compared with Honda and other Japanese manufacturers that completed their turn-around. Detroit is in a kind of a bad position for R&D, labor, pension, and other craziness of their company. It's too much to get into but despite all that, they make good cars.
Why must you insult one of many cars I drive or have access to. I am an agnostic car enthusiast who drives cars of assorted makes and models with a slight preference to mid-size sedans as you can tell with the purchase of the Accord AND the Grand Prix. I am not pro 'this' or pro 'that' and if you look at my profile I have been a member since October of last year. You only have an eight month lead over me. I have been lurking on these pages for quite some time. This fool selectively posts on this forum seeking information. The last thread I created was "2.2L Diesel Coverage?" which was posted back in March. (Thankfully, someone finally posted info on the Diesel a couple of days ago.) Prior to that I've been a member of other Honda/Acura related boards. Do not assume I am a troll. I may be a fool but I am no troll.
I'd like to thank iivtecracerii and Power Of Dreams for good advice and information. I do have a few comments about those posts as well.
Power Of Dreams wrote:
Be easy on the boy, Antoine :)
Here's a good link to see what you need for your Honda:
http://www.honaccurate.com/honda_maintenance.shtml
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Thanks for the link. I set my mom up with Honda's Ownerlink website yesterday. I'll keep it in my bookmarks since it beats logging on to Ownerlink.
Always check the service invoice and compare prices from dealers in your area. Since you own a Honda, you should be receiving service flyers in the mail from dealers in your area. Read them, because they often contain coupons for service and parts discounts.
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I'm doing that later today. I've set my sight on two dealerships that are President's Award winners. I hope that Award really means something. The other Honda dealer in my area keeps a pretty messy shop so I'm avoiding them. They also charge a great deal of money.
My parents get service flyers only from that dealership and the $30.00 oil change was in that flyer.
As for the oil changes, you can do them yourself. Just keep receipts of all items purchased (oil, filter, etc) and write a record of date and mileage the oil was changed in a logbook.
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i'd love to do the oil changes myself but my parents insist that they take the car to the dealership because it's under warranty. Don't ask me why but that is their wish. I started an excel spreadsheet for the Grand Prix. :) The log I was using annoyed me so after reading your post, I converted it to a spreadsheet. Once I teach my dad to use the computer, I hope he will use it. I gave my parents a folder to keep all the receipts for the Honda. Thanks. :)
I'm sure I missed something in this post and needed to address something or edit something. C'est la vie.
Last edited by mellifluous on 09-04-2003 05:16
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csium
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mellifluous wrote:
Tony E,
etc...
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Bottom line, maintainance schedules are expensive. If that $100 was really to check out the engine code, and not for some other work that was done (have you seen the invoice?), then that dealership is jacking you big time.
As far as the $30 oil change. I've paid upto, and including $35 at many various Toyota and Dodge dealerships. If you want the cheapest price, call around. Usually, I get mailers with "coupons" from dealers in the mail for $25.95. Compared to the local $14.95 gas station, this is expensive. Considering JiffyLube or Speedy, this is reasonable. Remember, by taking it to the dealer, your folks are paying for "peace of mind".
My parents have gotten jacked to the tune of $100+ on 15k and 30k maintainance intervals on their Camry's. The Toyota dealer has even added all types of "enhancers" to the oil, transmissions, power steering, etc. to run up the price higher. The flip side is the '92 has 150K+ miles, and is still going strong. Whenever there is a problem, the dealer will diagnose the problem for free, even if we just hear a new sound. (mind you, its because they've dumped so much money in to the dealership from the cars and service, and have a good repoir with the service manager)
Anyways, if the dealer is a crook (check the invoice), try getting your $100 back, and next time look around for a better dealership. I bought my Accord at one dealership, hated them after I bought the car, so now I schedule all my maintainance at a slightly further dealership.
Ok, its time to go to work now...
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Power Of Dreams
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Mel, glad to see that I could be of help :)
Check the receipt from the dealer, look over the services performed and if the resetting of the light is the only thing present, contact American Honda. If American Honda gives you the runaround, find a lawyer and take it to small claims court.
Contrary to what our friend Anton says, American Honda cannot revoke your warranty or refuse service without solid contrary evidence.
And be careful with dealing with any dealership that sells Honda, Toyota or Nissan. The dealers know that the cars sell themselves, so they could be as rude and crooked as possible and people will still buy the cars.
Last edited by Power Of Dreams on 09-05-2003 18:11
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TonyEX
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Hey, hey, at the risk of being called inflammatory again....
My name ain't Anton.... like your ain't Power of Drea
Heck, I gotta go get some preparation H now... ;-))))
But hey, AHM has nothing to do with this.... it's purely a dealer thing. Calling AHM can at worst put a black mark on the dealer, but as far as getting your money, there's nothing that AHM can do.... As I said, it's like charging at windmills, a quixotic crusade.
Power Of Dreams wrote:
Mel, glad to see that I could be of help :)
Check the receipt from the dealer, look over the services performed and if the resetting of the light is the only thing present, contact American Honda. If American Honda gives you the runaround, find a lawyer and take it to small claims court.
Contrary to what our friend Anton says, American Honda cannot revoke your warranty or refuse service without solid contrary evidence.
.....
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Bollocks
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Sorry, Tony, but as a service manager I have to disagree with you on several points:
Maintenance records are required to get warranty service.
-The records are irrelevant. Usually, if a part fails due to lack of maintenance, it would be so obvious that, maintenance records or no maintenance records, the repair would not be done under warranty. This is highly unusual, since about the only thing that will fail during the warranty period without regular maintenance is the engine itself, from lack of oil. Most everything else on the car (wear items excluded) is designed to last quite a long time without intervention. Having said that, it is a great idea to follow the factory-recommended maintenance. Your car will run better, feel better, and last longer in the end.
If a dealer does your maintenance, you get the TSBs taken care of and they'll go to bat for you on warranty gray areas.
The TSB part is correct. As for warranty gray areas, there are none. Either there is a defect, or there is no defect. There is no in between. However, as a gesture of goodwill, we will often perform a repair for free, or obtain factory participation in a repair, to keep a good customer happy. It is true that we won't necessarily go as far for someone who does not visit very often.
They won't charge for resetting the light
Depends which light. My technicians do not work for free, nor do I. Virtually all engine/abs/srs lights get diagnosed in the shop, at either customer or warranty's expense. And I mean diagnosed, not just "cleared".
For those who are not inclined to maintain a relationship with their dealer, consider what you are missing:
-Factory-trained technicians (we really do know your car inside and out)
-O.E. parts (such as filters) really are better than aftermarket.
-A maintenance schedule that was designed for your own Honda, not for your neighbor's Tempo.
-A cleaner-running, longer-lasting vehicle
-A vehicle that performs just as it did when new, in all aspects.
-Higher resale value
and last, but not least:
-a free warranty inspection with every maintenance visit. If anything is amiss that might cause you problems in the future, it is duly noted and/or repaired under warranty. While technically we are not allowed to "prospect" your car for warranty work, we can certainly perform warranty repairs that otherwise might reduce the reliability or longevity of your vehicle. I wouldn't, for example, replace a broken trim piece without a customer complaint, but I would replace a leaking axle seal, since the customer might not notice this until it's too late.
This alone is worth the price of admission. If you brought me a Honda with 37,000 miles that had never been to the dealership, I could almost certainly find $500 worth of defects. Of course, it would be too late to fix them under warranty...
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TonyEX
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You guys....
Come on..... you're all so serious... besides, we're talking about the maintenance light, not the check engine light. I can see that the check engine light does require some level of troubleshooting. We've noted that as the battery starts to go, sometimes the light will come on. And with all of the OBDII stuff, who knows if its a spurious event or a chronic problem?
As for gray areas... there are some.... for example, when the spring on my GSR's pressure plate failed taking the whole thing with it, it was one of the first failures we'd seen and the car had been purchased as is from the factory. But because we had Peyton Cramer always -and still do- maintain our Acuras, the service writer went to bat for us and got us a goodwill warranty job. They knew our driving habits and they knew the car since day one, from the previous owner.
Eventually AHM found out that more than one car had the failure, but that was years later.
Anyhow, just you wait... I'm gonna call my buddy at AHM and put YOU too in the Super Secret No Warranty List...
Besides... I got inflamed.... Yikes....
And in any event, I believe in using the dealer service bays... that's they only part of the dealership where I feel comfortable. I don't care that much for the sales side.
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Bollocks
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Oh no, not the Super Secret No Warranty List!!! Oh well, it could be worse.. you could have put me on the Enhanced Super Secret No Discounts On Your New Honda List or the Ultra Super Enhanced Secret We Put Sugar In Your Gas Tank and Sand In Your Crankcase List .
Phew!
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TonyEX
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Making fun of the Power of AHM Men In Black?
OK wise guy... I've just called my buddy Jimmy "The Bunco Guy" Ikegura over at the 3rd floor in Torrance and you're toast. Next time you try to order some of them hush hush special washers to fix the AT5 in them '04 Accords before you know who finds out, you'll find out that they're coming over the Rockies via Pony Express and that they're the ones designed for the Odyssey not the Accord.
See.. that's what happens when Ryan threw my a head trip, now my brain itches and until I get some mental Prep H. Jimmy is gonna make sure that you and Ryan's RSX tire swap counter are in order before so much as Tom Elliot approves even a new set of wiper blades under warranty.
Hmmmprh... not it's time to go cook the steak tartare, my wife just started deep frying the sashime tempura.
BTW: The Super Secret No Warranty List also covers the No Discount List, The Teriyaki in the Gas Tank List , the Missing Allocation Order List, The fake OEM oil filter distribution list and the Weekend Racer Shit List too.
Oh, Oh, you're all in trouble. I better stop posting and go eat dinner before Mr. Elliot adds my name to the Associates with Bad Guys Real Shit List. That's a Bad List to be in.
So there. :-)
Bollocks wrote:
Oh no, not the Super Secret No Warranty List!!! Oh well, it could be worse.. you could have put me on the Enhanced Super Secret No Discounts On Your New Honda List or the Ultra Super Enhanced Secret We Put Sugar In Your Gas Tank and Sand In Your Crankcase List .
Phew!
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LudegarH22A7
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What does (wear items excluded) mean exactly? Also what is the leather seat replacement policy at your facility? If my driver side seat bolsters are shot @ 10K miles, after a year.. what happens? Will Honda replace?
thnx-J
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Hiro
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yes it is a common fault on accords with leather interior.. the stiching comes apart at the lower left seat bolster.... it should be under the comprehensive warranty ( 3yrs 60 kms in canada)
go in to the service dept where u maintain your car and the service advisor should be able to make the call for you.
Hiro
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Hiro
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I just read over this whole thread,, and i have come to the conclusion that MELLIFLUOUS IS AN IDIOT.
I am sure that the dealership charged your parents for performing the second recomended service on the car, NOT for reseting the MIL light.
So next time think before you type!
Hiro
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Bollocks
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The seat bolster on your Accord is covered under the basic warranty for normal wear and tear, as long as you didn't puncture it with a knife or something silly like that. The problem you describe is fairly common.
"Normal wear items" include brake pads, tires, wiper blades clutch material, etc., if they wear out as a result of normal use. If a defect is found, as in brake pads separating from their backing, then warranty would apply.
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Bollocks
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Be nice, Hiro. Not everybody is quite as familiar with dealership language and environment as you are.
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Classic
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If you do service yourself, read the manual for instructions on how to cut the light off. I do it all the time and I maintain a spreadsheet to document the parts used, the mileage, and the the date that the service was performed.
Go to the back of your manual for the INDEX, look up "Maintenance Light," and follow the instructions. If you can read and put a key in an ignition, you can cut the Maintenance Required light off!!!
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peralta47
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Sorry did I miss it how do you reset the maint req light on a 03 v6 accord?
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