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  TOV News > Rebirth of Honda Legend > > Re: i HATE acura naming system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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KenB
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Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 10:53
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Now if only they would rename it back to the Legend.

People ask me about my car... I say its a TL, they'll just nod their heads. I mention it has the same engine as the Legend and I get "Ooooooo It must be a nice car then!"

Maybe someone from Honda/Acura will read this and let them know... recognition is important ;)
dydx
Profile for dydx
Re: Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 12:54
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KenBiddulph wrote:
Now if only they would rename it back to the Legend.

People ask me about my car... I say its a TL, they'll just nod their heads. I mention it has the same engine as the Legend and I get "Ooooooo It must be a nice car then!"

Maybe someone from Honda/Acura will read this and let them know... recognition is important ;)



I know, that's gotta be the most bone-headed move Acura could've made. Although, save for the Legend, none of the other names in the Acura lineup held much clout.

IntegratoTLS
Profile for IntegratoTLS
Re: Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 12:56
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what about Integra......
foyer
Profile for foyer
Re: Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 13:04
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The fact that they renamed the Integra as the RSX shows that certain people who make those kinds of decisions at Honda/Acura care nothing about brand identity and the merit of an established name. There are too many marketing decisions in the Acura line-up that are industry trailing- they wait to see what BMW and Mercedes do before approving action. The fortunate thing is, when Honda trails, they do so with great products. When the full-size Odyssey finally came out to compete against the Caravan/Voyager like 12 years later, it took the market from them. Honda needs to lead with new product concepts and make sales in those missing years when they are watching the market develop.
The RL is a good example. The Lexus GS has been selling like hotcakes for years in the United States and gaining market share and respect for Lexus as a brand. Acura's flagship certainly is not the current RL which is devoid of character or driving excitement like the GS- instead they have the NSX which was a leading product when it came out but is a vestige of when Honda was really hot and more of a market leader years ago. The RL replacement is years late and Acura find themselves playing catch-up with Lexus with another product.



Last edited by foyer on 07-14-2003 13:08
AznSupastar
Profile for AznSupastar
i HATE acura naming system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 14:14
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the whole acura naming system is f00ked up anyways, they try to be fancy like bmw, but they failed sadly.

look at bmw's LOGICAL naming, 3 series, 5 series, 5 series...it makes sense, u know that a 7 is higher class then 5, and so on. u also know, 330 is a better car then 325. the bigger the number the better. it's simple language that EVERYONE can understand.

but what does acura do? RSX, TSX, TL, RL, EL........NONE of these make logical sense to the non-acura fans. who ever thought of this retarded naming system should be shot in the pants. i luv the name "legend" & "integra", legend back then set a respectable name for itself, y would u change it to RL? stupid acura!
Suomi
Profile for Suomi
Re: Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 14:30
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Brand recognition is why they changed the names in the first place. People knew the name Legend, but not the name Acura. The problem is that although people know the name Acura, they don't know which cars are which. I understand their reasoning behind the name changes, but I still think it was a bad move.
Vinny
Profile for Vinny
Re: i HATE acura naming system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 14:56
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Just my wild guesses... could they mean....
TL = Touring Luxury
CL = Coupe Luxury
EL = Economical Luxury
TSX = Touring Sport Extreme
RSX = Recreational Sport Extreme
RL = Royal Luxury
NSX = Nippon (Japan) Sport Extreme
ha ha ha ... : ) ..... just guessing
Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 16:05
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The problem with RL is not that it was not called Legend, but it wasn't anything close to the Legend as a car. I've no problem with alphanumeric naming conventions as long as they make sense.
tramont
Profile for tramont
Well, it makes some sense... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 17:29
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Here's my summation:

Suffixes:
-L - some sort of luxury oriented vehicle. CL, TL, RL
-SX - some sort of sport oriented vehicle. RSX, TSX, NSX
-DX - some sort of SUV. MDX, future RDX
Prefixes:
T-(-) - four doors of some sort. TL, TSX
C- - coupe. CL
R-(-) - my only beef. It could either mean flagship or sporty small(er) car or SUV. RSX, RL, future RDX
N-- - supercar. They better not use this letter for any other cars.

Perhaps change the RL to GL for grand?? But then changing the name again would cause even more headaches..

-eric


Last edited by tramont on 07-14-2003 17:32
Wizard
Profile for Wizard
Re: Well, it makes some sense... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 18:12
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NSX: Neo Sports
RSX: Recreational/Road(?) Sports
TSX: Touring Sports

RL: Road(?) Luxury
TL: Touring Luxury
CL: Contemporary Luxury
EL: Executive(?) Luxury

MDX: Multi Dimensional
Matt K
Profile for Matt K
Re: i HATE acura naming system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 18:18
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What I understood from an Autoweek article...years ago...was that Honda was worried that they were getting TOO MUCH model recognition and no BRAND credit. Literally, everyone in America seemed to know what in Integra, Vigor and Legend were and what was implied by each name. Sadly, in comparing themselves to other luxury brands, (and I believe this is still true, today) they saw that most high-end owners name-dropped the Brand first(ie Mercedes, Lexus, Bimmer), and the model number only if needed.

The implication being...If you said you're driving a BMW...it didn't matter what model it was. It was understood that there was quality, and character there. At the time, if someone said they drove an ACURA, they'd almost always be asked "yeah, but which model?" because it was the model which conveyed the image, not the brand.

I still remember when we'd talk about so-and-so getting an Integra or Legend Coupe(which was the bomb). Even now, it means so much more to me than saying I drive a BMW or Benz. Management wanted to take the focus OFF the models and force people to use the name Acura, regardless of the model.

It worked. Unless you're talking to enlightened VTEC'ers, TL and RL doesn't mean anything. You're forced to name-drop Acura, which...and here's the crime...STILL doesn't mean anything, until you mention the model itself.

Sorry for the long post. It was a dumb decision then. It still is.
10Hondas1
Profile for 10Hondas1
Acura model names [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 19:14
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How about 'nobody knows'? Honda is trying to get brand name recognition versus model name recognition - they stated that when they changed from Legend, Integra, etc. The real problem is the content of the product in relationship to the competition. If the new 2005 RL is going to be something to be reckoned with, then it's about time - eight years is a long stretch between revisions. Why the long wait? The TL is great, but with all Honda's R & D, why a Vigor in the first place? The MDX is awesome, but why the Trooper re-skin? Honda seems to go in and out of any logical product planning cycles. Sort of like the stock market.
Wizard
Profile for Wizard
"Why the long wait?" [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 19:25
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I would say resources. Using today as the perspective, you could ask... why doesn't Honda make a pickup truck?

Where would they? I can see them expanding one or the other light truck production line (Ontario or Alabama) to deliver something based off Pilot, but that would not have been possible a year or two ago.
neech7
Profile for neech7
Re: Well, it makes some sense... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 19:26
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GL is a common trim level designation in Asian market Japanese cars, kinda like the equivalent of the LX trim of American Honda.

Like I said before, if I were to buy an RL, I will just rip every logo and decal off the car, and stick on the H logo and the 'Legend' name on it. Who cares what the morons at Acura marketing calls it. To me, the car is the 'Honda Legend', not Acura RL, or even Acura Legend. It's the 'Honda Legend'.

tramont wrote:
Here's my summation:

Suffixes:
-L - some sort of luxury oriented vehicle. CL, TL, RL
-SX - some sort of sport oriented vehicle. RSX, TSX, NSX
-DX - some sort of SUV. MDX, future RDX
Prefixes:
T-(-) - four doors of some sort. TL, TSX
C- - coupe. CL
R-(-) - my only beef. It could either mean flagship or sporty small(er) car or SUV. RSX, RL, future RDX
N-- - supercar. They better not use this letter for any other cars.

Perhaps change the RL to GL for grand?? But then changing the name again would cause even more headaches..

-eric



IMHO
Profile for IMHO
Re: i HATE acura naming system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 19:50
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Matt K wrote:
" At the time, if someone said they drove an ACURA, they'd almost always be asked "yeah, but which model?" because it was the model which conveyed the image, not the brand."

The reason they asked which model is that Acura was a luxury nameplate with not-so luxury model line-up, such as the Intega. You could like the Integra so much, but it didn't do Acura any good in my opinion in terms of brand recogniction that Honda was targeting, because afterall it was a diminuitive non-luxury car in a luxury lineup. Whether the current RSX does any justice to Acura is up in the air.
dydx
Profile for dydx
Re: i HATE acura naming system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 21:13
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IMHO wrote:
Whether the current RSX does any justice to Acura is up in the air.


A big resounding NO if you ask me.
notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 22:29
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Some great insights here.

The question for the B-school case studies is:

Should companies sacrifice recognizable brands/product names in an effort to reposition themselves in the marketplace?

The answer IMO, as some have alluded to, is:

Only if you plan to significantly reposition the product as well.

I would argue that in Acura's case, it was a significant mistake. The Vigor/TL has really not been repositioned vis-a-vis the rest of the Acura lineup and the competition in general. Neither has the RSX. The Legend/RL has, but not in the right direction (obviously from sales and its relative invisibility).

In not repositioning the vehicles while changing the naming structure, Acura (1) alienated, irritated or annoyed existing owners and brand loyal fans, (2) lost product recognition in the market among potential buyers, fans and car enthusiasts in general, (3) failed to do anything to move the brand in the direction the names would indicate (i.e. toward the lux end of the market ala MB and Lexus in particular).

So, the net result was a negative. Had Acura retained the positive product names while significantly upgrading the product, I would argue that the prestige associated with the Acura brand name would have improved while strong market presence would have been maintained. The poster who stated that the product line didn't fit the new naming scheme, is, IMO, dead on.

SC
dodole
Profile for dodole
Re: Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 23:06
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yep i agree if you say to other ppl outside US that u own RSX they gonna say HUH??? wat is dat??
dodole
Profile for dodole
Re: i HATE acura naming system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 23:10
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yeah when u tell ppl u own a legend they know that u own one of the best acura/honda car ever made. but if you told them you own RL TL CL they know you own the worst honda/acura every created because it too americanized
dodole
Profile for dodole
Re: Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-14-2003 23:12
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yeah when u said you own BMW 3 series they onli think of number.. like 3 wives 3 divorces 3 bankrupty but if you hear the name Legend,.. damn.. ppl we be astonished or amazed... like whoa legendary someting,.....
IMHO
Profile for IMHO
Re: Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2003 01:42
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The name did not make the car, but the car made the name. The 2nd generation legend was quite dashing, especially the 2-door legend. It was so different than other cars, yet looked very nice, aggressive, a car that can hold its own in terms of design. It looked the part of a luxury car too. I recall my friends who weren't even interested in cars, whenever they saw the 2nd generation Legend, their attention was captivated. The thing was, it was not a copy-cat design, it was pure Honda at its best. So the Legend goes.
akal50
Profile for akal50
Acura didn't put enough thought into it [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2003 10:41
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I can understand why Acura chose to drop Legend, Vigor, and Integra. If you're trying to establish yourself as a luxury brand, obviously you want the brand to be a more recognizable name than the model. The problem is the naming scheme is has no rules making it confusing for consumers who aren't familiar with Acura.

With Audi, A is for the regular sedan, S is for sport, and the number tells how many cylinders it's starts with. With BMW, everyone can figure out that the higher the number, the higher up in the lineup. The first number tells you how many tens of thousands it'll cost you and the next 2 numbers tell you how many liters the engine is. Mercedes, C is for cheap, E is for expensive, S is for superexpensive and the number tells you about the engine.

But Acura has no system at all. 3.2TL, 3.5RL, TSX, RSX, MDX, NSX. Most people don't know what these letters stand for. They can't tell just by the name whether it's an SUV, coupe, or sedan. You can't tell which is the entry-level and which is the top-of-the-line. What kind of marketing people work at Acura? If I were running a business, I'd make sure the names of my products made sense.

Acura can either be like its competitors and adopt a similar naming convention or dare to be different and use actual names for its cars. If they go with the latter, then they should definitely go back to using Legend, Vigor, Integra, etc. If they want to be like Audi, BMW, or Lexus, then they need to come up with a similar system that conveys the level a car is at in their lineup and something about the engine.

It's too bad Acura doesn't have a V8 in the RL cause then they could call the RL the L8, the TL the E6, and the TSX the C4. This is just an example.
Legend2
Profile for Legend2
Re: Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2003 12:35
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After having owned two Legend Coupe LS's, which were and still are some of the best automotive design and technology Acura produced, I still hear that poor sales doomed the Legend name in NA. Yes they were expensive for a V6 but no other 6 cyl. Coupe could match them for power or comfort. A luxury car line is not a mass market marketing showcase but a leader in design and technology. The RL was neither. If Acura wants a conservative sedan in the matket line-up let them keep the RL as is but if they want a leading edge luxury sedan and coupe to help establish market identidy bring back the Legend to NA with leading edge everything.
T-L-C
Profile for T-L-C
Re: i HATE acura naming system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2003 13:23
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I've been told at an Acura dealership that the naming convention goes as follows:

TL=traditional legend
CL=classic legend
RL=refined legend

not sure how true it is, though




PGH
Profile for PGH
Re: Acura didn't put enough thought into it [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2003 14:29
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TL stands for touring luxury, RL stands for Road Luxury.

How could anybody spend 40k for a RL. Honda must be making a killing. The R&D/Engineering cost have been paid for years ago. I drove a 2002 and it was not any better than a Accord.
akal50
Profile for akal50
Re: Acura didn't put enough thought into it [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2003 17:52
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PGH wrote:
TL stands for touring luxury, RL stands for Road Luxury.

How could anybody spend 40k for a RL. Honda must be making a killing. The R&D/Engineering cost have been paid for years ago. I drove a 2002 and it was not any better than a Accord.



I agree. My dad has a 2002 RL and I have a 2003 Accord EXV6. The Accord drives just as good. Actually it drives better because the engine is strong enough for that size car, unlike the one powering the RL.
VTECMike075
Profile for VTECMike075
Re: Well thats good... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2003 19:24
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While I doubt Acura will ever bring back the old names, something need to be done about the new ones. Ive never like the name 3.2TL, ect.. It just doesn't roll off the tounge too well. How about this:

RSX=200RS, Recreational Sport
TSX= 240TS, Touring Sport
3.2TL=320TL, Touring Luxury
3.5RL= 350RL, Real Luxury
MDX= 350VS, Versitlility Sport
NSX= NSX, of course!!

PiCASSO
Profile for PiCASSO
I don't think you put much thought into it.... [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2003 19:38
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akal50 wrote:
I can understand why Acura chose to drop Legend, Vigor, and Integra. If you're trying to establish yourself as a luxury brand, obviously you want the brand to be a more recognizable name than the model. The problem is the naming scheme is has no rules making it confusing for consumers who aren't familiar with Acura.

With Audi, A is for the regular sedan, S is for sport, and the number tells how many cylinders it's starts with. With BMW, everyone can figure out that the higher the number, the higher up in the lineup. The first number tells you how many tens of thousands it'll cost you and the next 2 numbers tell you how many liters the engine is. Mercedes, C is for cheap, E is for expensive, S is for superexpensive and the number tells you about the engine.

But Acura has no system at all. 3.2TL, 3.5RL, TSX, RSX, MDX, NSX. Most people don't know what these letters stand for. They can't tell just by the name whether it's an SUV, coupe, or sedan. You can't tell which is the entry-level and which is the top-of-the-line. What kind of marketing people work at Acura? If I were running a business, I'd make sure the names of my products made sense.

Acura can either be like its competitors and adopt a similar naming convention or dare to be different and use actual names for its cars. If they go with the latter, then they should definitely go back to using Legend, Vigor, Integra, etc. If they want to be like Audi, BMW, or Lexus, then they need to come up with a similar system that conveys the level a car is at in their lineup and something about the engine.

It's too bad Acura doesn't have a V8 in the RL cause then they could call the RL the L8, the TL the E6, and the TSX the C4. This is just an example.



Akal50:

I'm not sure if your explaination of naming scheme is a joke, or if you are being serious. But I figure I'll put some thought into it:

1. Audi cars: "number tells how many cylinders it's starts with". Okay, then please explain to me the A2 and A3 (not, yet, sold in North America)? Does it mean the A2 has a 2-cylinder engine? The A6 in Europe begins with a 1.8L 4-cylinder.

2. BWM cars: "The first number tells you how many tens of thousands it'll cost you". Fine, then does this apply for US dollars? What about the Canadian dollar or German mark? If I purchased a BMW back in the 80's, wouldn't the 7-series be cheaper because of monatery inflation? Would a 3-series continue to be $30,000 in the year 2030?

3. BMW cars: "next 2 numbers tell you how many liters the engine is" If you studied BMW nomenclature, you'd find that isn't usually the case. Take the 320i, for example, which is powered by a 2.2L (not 2.0L) In-line 6. Even the 745i and 745iL, are both equipped with a 4.4L V8, rather than a 4.5L.

4. Mercedes cars: "Mercedes, C is for cheap, E is for expensive, S is for superexpensive and the number tells you about the engine." Not too bright, on this one. How do you then explain: CLK, SLK, or M, A, or G-Class vehicles? Would G-Class be for "good"? Nope... try Geländewagen.

Nuf Said,

PiCASSO
BIG-JG
Profile for BIG-JG
Re: i HATE acura naming system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2003 22:36
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well if u hate acura's naming system then u must also hate lexus' naming system.
LS,GS,ES,IS,SC,LX,GX,RX.......
RL,TL,CL,EL,TSX,RSX,NSX,MDX........
both didn't make any logical sense....
well I think this is just how Jap lexury cars' naming system going to be
neech7
Profile for neech7
Re: i HATE acura naming system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2003 17:36
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Nissan is doing a better job with Infiniti. If it says G20, it's a 2.0L engine, unless of course they started doing it like BMW, putting in a 2.5L engine in the 323 and all that.

BIG-JG wrote:
well if u hate acura's naming system then u must also hate lexus' naming system.
LS,GS,ES,IS,SC,LX,GX,RX.......
RL,TL,CL,EL,TSX,RSX,NSX,MDX........
both didn't make any logical sense....
well I think this is just how Jap lexury cars' naming system going to be


 
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