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TOV Forums > ILX > > Re: More ILX impressions

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mac_powah
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Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2013 00:14
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DCR,

"a steaming shit pile"?? and "laughed out loud when you saw one"?? That's a tad overzealous if you ask me. Why, oh why are we still complaining about the ILX? Do you think Lexus fans are practically crying over the CT200h or the HS250? The ILX is still better than both these cars. The ILX is not as horrible a car as lots of TOVers are making it out to be. Could it have been better? Sure, but it still has a lot of good points going for it. I know that I really love my ILX Dynamic and it certainly isn't a "pile of shit". In fact, it's quite ignorant of you to speak in such a manner about something you know very little about.
For the record, I've seen 3 other ILX's in my city (pop 200,000) and the only Acura dealer is a 2 hour drive away.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2013 00:15
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330R wrote:
I had to drive an ILX hybrid today. No takeoff response. I mean, no takeoff response. The damn thing sits there and thinks about it, and then rolls off with your foot on the accelerator like most cars roll off with just your foot off the brake.

What a maniacally depressing little shit of a car.



It was probably in ECON mode. First time I borrowed an ILX Hybrid, I pulled out of my neighborhood into 50mph traffic and almost got crushed. I then noticed the little tree icon lit up on on the instrument cluster and promptly switched it out of ECON mode. MUCH better. Well, at least acceptable.

In ECON mode this car is nearly useless unless you have virtually no other traffic to mingle with.


Last edited by JeffX on 09-06-2013 16:18
99Type_SH
Profile for 99Type_SH
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2013 00:25
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Any ILX trashers driven the 2.4L? It's really not as bad as you all portray. And remember half the buying population cares more about mileage than power, and by that token 150 in the auto is more than enough.

Personally I would prefer the 2.4 in the auto but I think I am in the minority of a buyers and the majority of the TOV crowd.

At the end of the day the ILX is a dressed up Civic, and the Civic is far and away the best car in it's class IMO. So the ILX by extension is also a good car but perhaps a little over priced at MSRP. Luckily the incentives are there to bring it into line.

Still I'm expecting none of this to register with everyone who expected more from the "RSX replacement". I too hope we see something more sporty, perhaps the TLX will finally hit the mark we so loathe.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2013 00:36
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CarmB wrote:
The Volkswagen's superior build quality?

From what I can tell, Volkswagen has major build-quality issues.

Are we talking build quality as in something that works well for a long time or something that looks like it could work well for a long time. There is a difference.

In my sixth year with the CSX, I would say that Acura has build quality of the sort I and others value. Couldn't be happier with the car in terms of how it is holding up. In contrast, my sister's Jetta was a piece of junk. Eventually she got smart, went Honda instead, and hasn't looked back since.

Besides, to be fair, if you're really talking bang for the buck, you can stay within the Honda family and do considerably better than anything Volkswagen has to offer. The Civic, for instance, has configurations that make a lot of sense and a decent enough Accord can be had for substantially less than $30,000, even in Canada where we pay way too much compared to US customers.

Like it or not, while the ILX is understandably disappointing for many, Honda is moving more than a thousand ILXs a month, so somebody is buying them. You'd rather have a Volkswagen and all I can say to that is every automaker has its customers. Myself, I prefer Honda and would consider Mazda but would, under no circumstances, contemplate going Volkswagen.

I would consider declaring Volkswagen to possess superior build quality to be on a par with insisting the ILX has been a success. Both are equally true.



Still grasping for straws I see...

1) Go actually look at a GLI versus just sitting here pretending you have. Let me break it down for you:

The Jetta has more solid door pulls and handles.

The Jetta's doors don't sound tinny and hollow when you shut them.

The Jetta GLI has a superior dash layout to the ILX, and it is made of higher quality materials. Not only do they look richer, but they FEEL better. They are more squishy and don't feel as much like vinyl as the ILX.

The GLI has "leatherette" seating, but frankly the material feels thicker and more durable than the ILX's thin leather. The contrast stitching and the increased bolstering also feel better than the ILX's seats.

The GLI has interior fit and finish that is at least equal to the ILX. I would argue superior because it doesn't appear to have as many visual seam lines.

The ILX has slightly better switch gear, but not much, and the VW's layout is more attractive and simpler.

The ILX has a slight advantage in some minor features, the Jetta in others. However, you can still get a decent "high end" stereo in the Jetta, and for most people, the additional room would be much appreciated. You also get a choice of transmissions on the Jetta, which is a no-go if you want ANY sort of reasonable performance in an ILX (to me that is not a big deal, as I would want a manual anyway).

The outside panel gaps on the Jetta seem to be at least as good as the ILX, the panel fit is even and flush, and the paint is at least as good, possibly better. The optional 18's on the Jetta help even more.

Finally, the Jetta has that very tight, solid Teutonic driving feel to it.

2) Your semantic bullshit is getting pretty tired. Build quality encompasses many things, including fit and finish, materials quality, and intangible things like feel, sound and perceived durability. You seem to be confusing build quality with either durability (how long something lasts under stress) or reliability (how long something will function as intended without intervention).

You keep trying to bring up these same old, tired crutches as if to prove something. However, Honda's past reliability has is not indicative of guaranteed future performance, nor is VW's. If the 2012 Civic is to be used as a benchmark, then I don't have much faith in Honda's long term durability any more, nor am I willing to deny that prior to the 2013 Accord, every single Accord since our 1990 has been on a downward trajectory in terms of quality.

Also, we are talking 5 year cost of ownership. Not indefinite ownership. Skirt the issue all you want, the reality is that the majority of most segments have people owning cars less than 5 years these days.

3) You claim I can do a lot better than the Jetta, but the reality is that the Civic Si is barely competitive performance wise, and I have to make a lot of luxury sacrifices to get it.

The Accord is a lot bigger, a lot heavier and a lot less sporty, so no, Honda really doesn't have a straight across competitor for the GLI. The ILX could have been that car, but it just isn't.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2013 00:47
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99Type_SH wrote:
Any ILX trashers driven the 2.4L? It's really not as bad as you all portray. And remember half the buying population cares more about mileage than power, and by that token 150 in the auto is more than enough.

Personally I would prefer the 2.4 in the auto but I think I am in the minority of a buyers and the majority of the TOV crowd.

At the end of the day the ILX is a dressed up Civic, and the Civic is far and away the best car in it's class IMO. So the ILX by extension is also a good car but perhaps a little over priced at MSRP. Luckily the incentives are there to bring it into line.

Still I'm expecting none of this to register with everyone who expected more from the "RSX replacement". I too hope we see something more sporty, perhaps the TLX will finally hit the mark we so loathe.



Nope. But I have driven the Si, which is sportier, and still can barely go toe to toe with the GLI.

Have you ever driven a GLI?

And if all anybody cares about is mileage, then why isn't the ILX blowing off the lots? Oh that's right, the mileage isn't that good because it is too much car for too little engine, and it is overpriced to boot.

FYI, despite all of the incentives, the ILX is moving about 50% of its intended volume. If that doesn't say something about the execution, I don't know what would. Compare that relative to the Accord and Civic, which are now both moving with very little incentive to do so...
330R
Profile for 330R
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2013 01:19
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99Type_SH wrote:
Any ILX trashers driven the 2.4L? It's really not as bad as you all portray. And remember half the buying population cares more about mileage than power, and by that token 150 in the auto is more than enough.

Personally I would prefer the 2.4 in the auto but I think I am in the minority of a buyers and the majority of the TOV crowd.

At the end of the day the ILX is a dressed up Civic, and the Civic is far and away the best car in it's class IMO. So the ILX by extension is also a good car but perhaps a little over priced at MSRP. Luckily the incentives are there to bring it into line.

Still I'm expecting none of this to register with everyone who expected more from the "RSX replacement". I too hope we see something more sporty, perhaps the TLX will finally hit the mark we so loathe.



I posted about the hybrid, but I've also driven the 2.0 and the 2.4 models. The R20 is, just kind of there. It moves along fine. Good for slightly fancier Civic transportation. The K24 is much better than the other two, certainly.

That said, when looking at the performance and fun to be had, I'd take a '13 Si over it. Less expensive, LSD, less body roll. Ugh, but those 9th gen seats with their multitudes of patched together synthetic swatches and smaller bolsters (relative to the 8th gen seats).

For more premium feel, materials, cohesion and perception of quality and "more car", I'd take a '13 TSX SE. Same engine, automatic trans if you want it, manual choice also, with a larger interior, double wishbones at the front corners, made in Japan goodness, more mature, quieter, a better car for not much more.

Regarding how half the population cares more about fuel economy than about power, it just goes along with most people not being "car people" or enthusiasts with a performance slant. I don't expect them to place power above empeegees. I myself place more importance on enjoying driving than they may. Those people may spend more money on other things I don't or derive joy from things I don't. But remember, with the majority of folks out there for whom 150hp is more than enough as you say, the ILX is still underperforming on the sales charts, and the 150hp spec is the most available one.
330R
Profile for 330R
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2013 01:27
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JeffX wrote:
330R wrote:
I had to drive an ILX hybrid today. No takeoff response. I mean, no takeoff response. The damn thing sits there and thinks about it, and then rolls off with your foot on the accelerator like most cars roll off with just your foot off the brake.

What a maniacally depressing little shit of a car.



It was probably in ECON mode. First time I borrowed an ILX Hybrid, I pulled out of my neighborhood into 50mph traffic and almost got crushed. I then noticed the little tree icon lit up on on the instrument cluster and promptly switched it out of ECON mode. MUCH better. Well, at least acceptable.

In ECON mode this car is nearly useless unless you have virtually no other traffic to mingle with.



That's probably it, Jeff. I thought the hybrids defaulted to normal mode, but then I could see it being something configurable in the MID. Stepping out of a J35 and into that L-wheezy thing was unpleasant.
330R
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Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2013 01:42
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99Type_SH wrote:
Still I'm expecting none of this to register with everyone who expected more from the "RSX replacement". I too hope we see something more sporty, perhaps the TLX will finally hit the mark we so loathe.


If we listened to the marketing bozos, the RDX "replaced" the RSX in the Wackura lineup. Not literally, but as for filling a gap with something of some performance. Whatever "logic" they were stretching for, not really anyone bought into it. For people who were hoping for an RSX-S or the return of the Integra with the ILX, I don't know how many will be appeased by the TLX. Spy shots are spy shots, but the thing isn't an in-betweener of the TSX and TL, as much as a very nearly TL in size. I can't resolve a comparison of an RSX and a TL.
CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2013 06:36
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I'm not pretending to have looked at a GLI. Quite the opposite. I quite clearly have not looked at any Volkswagen product in years quite simply because they simply don't have a good enough track record in terms of reliability to even make my list of models worth considering.

Consumers want any number of things from their cars but I think most of all, they want as little hassle as possible in the course of owning whatever they buy. It's a big reason why the Civic and Accord are among the most popular cars in NA. It's also why Volkswagen sells so many fewer cars in this market despite producing models that, on the surface, seem to be better vehicles.

Years ago Volkswagen had a chance to cash in on the legendary indestructability of the original Beetle. Yet instead, Volkswagen produced inferior products that caused the company to fall far behind Japanese upstarts making far more dependable products.

They let consumers down and have paid a price for it. That's as it should be. If companies get away with making unreliable junk, we're all worse off over the long haul.

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2013 08:05
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DCR
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Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-05-2013 19:35
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mac_powah wrote:
DCR,

"a steaming shit pile"?? and "laughed out loud when you saw one"?? That's a tad overzealous if you ask me. Why, oh why are we still complaining about the ILX? Do you think Lexus fans are practically crying over the CT200h or the HS250? The ILX is still better than both these cars. The ILX is not as horrible a car as lots of TOVers are making it out to be. Could it have been better? Sure, but it still has a lot of good points going for it. I know that I really love my ILX Dynamic and it certainly isn't a "pile of shit". In fact, it's quite ignorant of you to speak in such a manner about something you know very little about.
For the record, I've seen 3 other ILX's in my city (pop 200,000) and the only Acura dealer is a 2 hour drive away.



Did I hurt your feelings?

Relax.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-06-2013 01:01
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CarmB wrote:
I'm not pretending to have looked at a GLI. Quite the opposite. I quite clearly have not looked at any Volkswagen product in years quite simply because they simply don't have a good enough track record in terms of reliability to even make my list of models worth considering.

Consumers want any number of things from their cars but I think most of all, they want as little hassle as possible in the course of owning whatever they buy. It's a big reason why the Civic and Accord are among the most popular cars in NA. It's also why Volkswagen sells so many fewer cars in this market despite producing models that, on the surface, seem to be better vehicles.

Years ago Volkswagen had a chance to cash in on the legendary indestructability of the original Beetle. Yet instead, Volkswagen produced inferior products that caused the company to fall far behind Japanese upstarts making far more dependable products.

They let consumers down and have paid a price for it. That's as it should be. If companies get away with making unreliable junk, we're all worse off over the long haul.




Another false statement.

If people are so dead set on the reliability as the primary purchasing factor, why is the Jetta smoking the shit out of the ILX in terms of sales with prices so similar. Your math doesn't add up.

Nor does your assertion that people don't care about power, because if that were true, the ILX 2.0 would be blowing off lots.

You are making false claims about a car you know nothing about. The Jetta isn't the sole component of VW's reliability ratings, just as Honda's transmission problems didn't move it down that far.

You simply can't construct an effective counter argument, so you continue to attempt to dodge it.
4thaccord
Profile for 4thaccord
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-06-2013 06:55
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Owequitit, you need to stop bullying people who disagree with you. Your my-opinion-is-fact mentality doesn't make it so. Grow up. Calm down. Take a pill. See a doctor. Whatever it takes, do it. There is definitely more going on with you than your obvious need to educate the masses with what you see as your expansive knowledge. What you have to accept is that not everyone in the world is going to agree with you. More importantly, believe it or not (I hope you're sitting down), sometimes your opinion is actually wrong.

And please spare me one of your trademark 7-paragraph responses. I've been ignoring them for the past 5 years to get to responses that actually say something. Bullying has no place after 4th grade, and certainly not here.

Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-06-2013 08:41
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Owe, are you saying there are sales numbers showing the GLI is out-selling the ILX? Or are you including all of the "only reason for being is price" Jettas? The information I've found points to VW selling 25 of the punters' Jettas for every GLI.

Apples to apples, right? Would anyone here buy a Jetta SE?
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-06-2013 10:55
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4thaccord wrote:
Owequitit, you need to stop bullying people who disagree with you. Your my-opinion-is-fact mentality doesn't make it so. Grow up. Calm down. Take a pill. See a doctor. Whatever it takes, do it. There is definitely more going on with you than your obvious need to educate the masses with what you see as your expansive knowledge. What you have to accept is that not everyone in the world is going to agree with you. More importantly, believe it or not (I hope you're sitting down), sometimes your opinion is actually wrong.

And please spare me one of your trademark 7-paragraph responses. I've been ignoring them for the past 5 years to get to responses that actually say something. Bullying has no place after 4th grade, and certainly not here.



Well stated 4thaccord.
DCR
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Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-06-2013 13:04
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4thaccord wrote:
Owequitit, you need to stop bullying people who disagree with you. Your my-opinion-is-fact mentality doesn't make it so. Grow up. Calm down. Take a pill. See a doctor. Whatever it takes, do it. There is definitely more going on with you than your obvious need to educate the masses with what you see as your expansive knowledge. What you have to accept is that not everyone in the world is going to agree with you. More importantly, believe it or not (I hope you're sitting down), sometimes your opinion is actually wrong.

And please spare me one of your trademark 7-paragraph responses. I've been ignoring them for the past 5 years to get to responses that actually say something. Bullying has no place after 4th grade, and certainly not here.




This coming from the guy who is trying to convince people that the Accord has the harshest ride of any car on the planet.

I think you need to examine your own approach.
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-06-2013 13:15
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DCR wrote:
4thaccord wrote:
Owequitit, you need to stop bullying people who disagree with you. Your my-opinion-is-fact mentality doesn't make it so. Grow up. Calm down. Take a pill. See a doctor. Whatever it takes, do it. There is definitely more going on with you than your obvious need to educate the masses with what you see as your expansive knowledge. What you have to accept is that not everyone in the world is going to agree with you. More importantly, believe it or not (I hope you're sitting down), sometimes your opinion is actually wrong.

And please spare me one of your trademark 7-paragraph responses. I've been ignoring them for the past 5 years to get to responses that actually say something. Bullying has no place after 4th grade, and certainly not here.




This coming from the guy who is trying to convince people that the Accord has the harshest ride of any car on the planet.

I think you need to examine your own approach.


I guess the 5th Accord had to go!
:)
CarmB
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Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-06-2013 21:51
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The Jetta has a starting price of $14,990 here in Canada, whereas the ILX starts at $27,990. As such, if you want to compare sales numbers, compare the Jetta to the sales of the Civic and ILX combined to cover the range of pricing involving the Jetta.

If you're prepared to fairly compare Honda's sales numbers for sedans, including the Civic, Accord and ILX with Volkswagen's combined sales of the Jetta and Passat, then we can draw some valid conclusions.

This might be a little different if only Jetta sales for the versions MSRPing in the ballpark of an ILX were considered but I don't imagine such a breakdown is readilly available.

Basically, if you'll let me add in Civic sales to this mix, then we're talking apples and apples. What do you say?
owequitit
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Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-07-2013 04:09
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4thaccord wrote:
Owequitit, you need to stop bullying people who disagree with you. Your my-opinion-is-fact mentality doesn't make it so. Grow up. Calm down. Take a pill. See a doctor. Whatever it takes, do it. There is definitely more going on with you than your obvious need to educate the masses with what you see as your expansive knowledge. What you have to accept is that not everyone in the world is going to agree with you. More importantly, believe it or not (I hope you're sitting down), sometimes your opinion is actually wrong.

And please spare me one of your trademark 7-paragraph responses. I've been ignoring them for the past 5 years to get to responses that actually say something. Bullying has no place after 4th grade, and certainly not here.




I didn't bully anybody. I provided data contrary to his opinion. For 3 pages, he agreed with the data and then said it wasn't true.

And for the record, transaction prices, sales numbers and sales goals are not opinion.

The only opinion in there was that I would rather have a GLI, and it was clearly labeled as an opinion.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-07-2013 04:12
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CarmB wrote:
The Jetta has a starting price of $14,990 here in Canada, whereas the ILX starts at $27,990. As such, if you want to compare sales numbers, compare the Jetta to the sales of the Civic and ILX combined to cover the range of pricing involving the Jetta.

If you're prepared to fairly compare Honda's sales numbers for sedans, including the Civic, Accord and ILX with Volkswagen's combined sales of the Jetta and Passat, then we can draw some valid conclusions.

This might be a little different if only Jetta sales for the versions MSRPing in the ballpark of an ILX were considered but I don't imagine such a breakdown is readilly available.

Basically, if you'll let me add in Civic sales to this mix, then we're talking apples and apples. What do you say?




The discussion is about equivalent trim levels. I.E. GLI versus ILX 6MT.

You are simply trying to drag the discussion away from the real point. I never claimed that every Jetta competed against every ILX. But the GLI does, which is why I used it specifically.
owequitit
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Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-07-2013 04:17
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Grace141 wrote:
Owe, are you saying there are sales numbers showing the GLI is out-selling the ILX? Or are you including all of the "only reason for being is price" Jettas? The information I've found points to VW selling 25 of the punters' Jettas for every GLI.

Apples to apples, right? Would anyone here buy a Jetta SE?


It depends which statement you are referring to.

My point about the GLI vs the ILX was to show that a "plebian" brand is making a car that effectively puts up a better luxury front than the ILX. The rest of the discussion addressed CarmB's assertions about the relative prices and values of the Jetta vs the ILX.

As for sales numbers, the only ILX even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as GLI is the 6MT. We know that Acura is selling roughly 10% of total production as 6MT, so it is probably fair to say that at the same price, people are choosing the GLI more often. If your 25:1 ratio is to be believed that is 700 GLIs last month compared to about 170 ILX 6MT's. Could be partly production limitations, but I just think the GLI puts up a hard case against the 6MT and simply clobbers any regular models. For the lower model ILX, the worst enemies are probably the Civic and the Accord.
CarmB
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Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-07-2013 06:23
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So, to be worth considering, we would have to compare apples and apples, which is to say, look at the sales for comparably equiped Jetta GLIs and ILXs. Here in Canada, since the 2.4L is the only version worth considering, by your parameters, that means that only sales for the 6-speed GLI with the tech package count. To be fair, that does put the GLI at a disadvantage in MSRP ($33,240 vs. $31,990) but it's as close to a direct comparison as we can get.

In the US, it's a little different in that the 2.4L comes with less equipment. But the concept is the same, i.e. equip the cars comparably and have a look at those sales nmbers.

Don't forget the GLI can be had with an automatic transmission and the 2.4L ILX can't. It matters because for most consumers, not being able to get an automatic is a dealbreaker.

If you can provide sales stats for the GLI and ILX comparably equiped, then there's a basis for a discussion. Do you have those figures and if so, please share.
THX17201
Profile for THX17201
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-07-2013 07:03
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owequitit wrote:
My point about the GLI vs the ILX was to show that a "plebian" brand is making a car that effectively puts up a better luxury front than the ILX.


Ditto the 2014 Mazda3. The base model has 5 more hp than the ILX and you can get it with a 6MT. You can get with it with 18's and 184 hp and auto. 6MT is coming in about 6 months on that model. You can get all the tech goodies you want on these cars too.
Grace141
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Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-07-2013 10:25
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I haven't found sales numbers broken down by model trims but TSX69's numbers posted in the current Honda sales news post show Jetta sales for the month of August at 16,280 and ILX sales at 1701 for a sales advantage in favor of the Jetta of 9.57 to 1.

Current mix of available new cars per Cars.com:

GLI = 1145 available out of 15,566 total Jettas = 1:13.6

ILX 2.4/6MT = 265 available out of 4514 total ILX = 1:17

Current mix of available used cars per Cars.com

2013 GLI = 31 available out of 1033 total 2013 Jettas = 1:33.3

2013 ILX 2.4/6MT = 15 available out of 285 total 2013 ILX = 1:19

Current mix of used 2013 manual and auto shift Jetta GLI

Manual shift = 103
Automatic = 923
Unknown = 7

None of the above points to sales of manual shift GLI and ILX 2.4/6MT. This just points to the mix of new cars available and the mix of cars sold during 2013 which are now being passed along. A case could be made for the GLI owners being happier with the cars or keeping them longer. It can also be said that while Acura stated some healthy sales projections for the ILX they apparently reacted quickly at correcting production to match actual sales.

My opinions:

- I see the Jetta as a competitor of the Focus. I don't see any effort on VW's part to sell the GLI. I've seen just one GLI on the roads in my area - with those wheels I have to think I'd notice them. I sat in a Jetta SE at my local 2012 auto show and was impressed with the interior other than the yellow-beige Corn Silk (?) color looking as bland as the day is long. The Jetta SE may be a fantastic car to drive (I haven't driven one) but I didn't give it a second thought before buying a new car during 2012. The Jetta I find most interesting is the TDI/manual shift wagon.

- I see the ILX as a direct competitor of the Mazda3. It's not luxury but it is somewhat sporty which is okay with me. I haven't driven a Mazda3 but my instinct tells me the 3 is a better driver's car than the 2L/Auto Base ILX I drove. I think the interesting paradox here is that of the complaints by many about the ILX being just a fancy Civic. When considered as a trim level for the Civic the ILX makes perfect sense, compares favorably to the overall Jetta numbers, and looks like a huge success. I assume that's not what most of us believe is an ideal success story. I've never thought "ILX" was a good name for the car but then "Integra" was Proctor & Gamble wishy-washy as it was in the mid-'80s without definition or connection to anything automotive. Integra-l? Integr-a-ty? I think the changes for the 2014 ILX have helped. I don't care though for the "any color you want as long as it's gray" color choices. I think we'd all be happier with more automotive color choices which are not based on brown or some shade of black/white.

More opinions:

- If the current automatics won't fit under the hood of the ILX with the 2.4L then Honda needs to invent smaller automatic transmissions. Let's assume that's the case with the new CVTs. Right? If Mazda can do it with the 3...

- If Acura is still smart luxury the ILX needs to be smarter and more luxurious. That's pretty simple. Adding $5k to the current prices won't hurt sales any if that money buys vastly improved ILXs. I would actually consider a $35k US small Acura sedan if it were the right car.

- Instead of giving us a modern version of the 1996 Civic EX sedan give us a modern version of the 1996 Integra sedan. GSR version with both manual and auto shift options.

Yep, this has been said before.


CarmB
Profile for CarmB
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-07-2013 11:57
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The only valid numbers are when comparing sales of comparable models equiped as closely to one another as possible. So if one is looking at an ILX 2.4L with a manual tranny equiped the only way it comes, only the manual-stick GLI should be considered with the approrpiate package needed to match up in terms of equipment.

I think a case could be made that if the 2.4L were available with an automatic in the ILX, we'd be seeing different numbers. I can't explain why Honda has failed to get an automatic into the 2.4L ILX but there it is. In NA, the vast majority of consumers will refuse to consider a manual tranny. Offering a car only with a manual tranny guarantees low volumes. It's as if Honda didn't want good sales of the 2.4L ILX. Bizzare and yet, there it is.
Fishbulb
Profile for Fishbulb
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-07-2013 12:32
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I'll settle this one. If I had a gun to my head, and had to pick an ILX or a GLI, I'd leave a beautiful corpse.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-07-2013 15:04
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Fishbulb wrote:
I'll settle this one. If I had a gun to my head, and had to pick an ILX or a GLI, I'd leave a beautiful corpse.


:D

Can I borrow your gun? Just reading such a long bunfight about such tedious cars has finished me off...
DevilMayCry
Profile for DevilMayCry
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-07-2013 16:25
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Fishbulb wrote:
I'll settle this one. If I had a gun to my head, and had to pick an ILX or a GLI, I'd leave a beautiful corpse.


Damn dude, that has to be the funniest post I've ever read on TOV, lol!

Thanks for the laugh!
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-08-2013 01:33
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Grace141 wrote:
I haven't found sales numbers broken down by model trims but TSX69's numbers posted in the current Honda sales news post show Jetta sales for the month of August at 16,280 and ILX sales at 1701 for a sales advantage in favor of the Jetta of 9.57 to 1.

Current mix of available new cars per Cars.com:

GLI = 1145 available out of 15,566 total Jettas = 1:13.6

ILX 2.4/6MT = 265 available out of 4514 total ILX = 1:17

Current mix of available used cars per Cars.com

2013 GLI = 31 available out of 1033 total 2013 Jettas = 1:33.3

2013 ILX 2.4/6MT = 15 available out of 285 total 2013 ILX = 1:19

Current mix of used 2013 manual and auto shift Jetta GLI

Manual shift = 103
Automatic = 923
Unknown = 7

None of the above points to sales of manual shift GLI and ILX 2.4/6MT. This just points to the mix of new cars available and the mix of cars sold during 2013 which are now being passed along. A case could be made for the GLI owners being happier with the cars or keeping them longer. It can also be said that while Acura stated some healthy sales projections for the ILX they apparently reacted quickly at correcting production to match actual sales.

My opinions:

- I see the Jetta as a competitor of the Focus. I don't see any effort on VW's part to sell the GLI. I've seen just one GLI on the roads in my area - with those wheels I have to think I'd notice them. I sat in a Jetta SE at my local 2012 auto show and was impressed with the interior other than the yellow-beige Corn Silk (?) color looking as bland as the day is long. The Jetta SE may be a fantastic car to drive (I haven't driven one) but I didn't give it a second thought before buying a new car during 2012. The Jetta I find most interesting is the TDI/manual shift wagon.

- I see the ILX as a direct competitor of the Mazda3. It's not luxury but it is somewhat sporty which is okay with me. I haven't driven a Mazda3 but my instinct tells me the 3 is a better driver's car than the 2L/Auto Base ILX I drove. I think the interesting paradox here is that of the complaints by many about the ILX being just a fancy Civic. When considered as a trim level for the Civic the ILX makes perfect sense, compares favorably to the overall Jetta numbers, and looks like a huge success. I assume that's not what most of us believe is an ideal success story. I've never thought "ILX" was a good name for the car but then "Integra" was Proctor & Gamble wishy-washy as it was in the mid-'80s without definition or connection to anything automotive. Integra-l? Integr-a-ty? I think the changes for the 2014 ILX have helped. I don't care though for the "any color you want as long as it's gray" color choices. I think we'd all be happier with more automotive color choices which are not based on brown or some shade of black/white.

More opinions:

- If the current automatics won't fit under the hood of the ILX with the 2.4L then Honda needs to invent smaller automatic transmissions. Let's assume that's the case with the new CVTs. Right? If Mazda can do it with the 3...

- If Acura is still smart luxury the ILX needs to be smarter and more luxurious. That's pretty simple. Adding $5k to the current prices won't hurt sales any if that money buys vastly improved ILXs. I would actually consider a $35k US small Acura sedan if it were the right car.

- Instead of giving us a modern version of the 1996 Civic EX sedan give us a modern version of the 1996 Integra sedan. GSR version with both manual and auto shift options.

Yep, this has been said before.





Don't forget that the GLI has some fairly significant upgrades versus any of the regular model Jetta's, including independent rear suspension and a completely revamped interior that is hugely nicer than any of the regular models.
Grace141
Profile for Grace141
Re: More ILX impressions    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-08-2013 07:20
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owequitit wrote:
Don't forget that the GLI has some fairly significant upgrades versus any of the regular model Jetta's, including independent rear suspension and a completely revamped interior that is hugely nicer than any of the regular models.

Yeah, I know. The GLI does look like a great car.
 
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