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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Small Honda engines for dune buggy plus blabbering.

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Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Small Honda engines for dune buggy plus blabbering.    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2013 14:18
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I've been looking for Honda only engines to go on a project I'm building. The project is a compact 4 seater Dune Buggy that should be road and trail capable. Mainly road.

The engine has to be:
-Small and compact.
-Decently Powerful.
-Clean looking.
-Efficient.

These are my options so far.

Honda GX360 or GX640 from HT3813/ HT4814/ H5518 NA-4 (NA-4= AWD and AWS. NA-2= RWD only)

GX360 is found in the HT3813 and the GX340 is found in the HT4814 and H5518 NA-2 and 4 tractors.

GX360(AKA GA01 on Honda ES6500 Generators) and GX640 are both built off the same engine design, but as their names suggest, ones about 360cc's and the other is about 640cc's. The two engines have slightly different heads, cams and carburetors. Power ranges from 12HP and 18lb-ft on some generators to 13HP and 26lb-ft on the ht3813 to 18HP and 32lb-ft on the ht4814 and H5518 models.

The engines are water cooled and pressure lubricated. It's said that these engines along with a few others I'm going to list are based off the Honda D series, back in the 80's when they first came out.

I'm planning on doing a few performance mods; carbureted to Fuel injection, higher compression and stronger internals via custom billet rods and fly wheels ect., removed mechanical governor and install a electronically controlled fuel cut as a rev limiter. MBE Motorsports offers the needed supplies. And to be tasteful, exhaust with likely utilize the smallest universal automotive style muffler I can find with dual exits. (2-1-2 or 'X' system)




I've also thought about a Honda BF20D engine from an out board motor. 20HP, same deal as the GX640. It may be a pain to get the cooling system converted properly for a automotive style one, but the engine comes factory with more power and revvs high safely.

There is also the BF30A. Same as the BF20D but, with an extra cylinder. 30HP.

Then we get to the E07A engine form the Honda Beat. These engines are not in the US from what I can tell. If they are, they are NOT online anywhere nor is their info. I like the idea of this engine because it's hefty in power, and is used in Kei cars over in Japan and is offered with either 5MT's, 3AT's or CVT's even. So I have a flexible drive train choice.

I've also considered the Honda GL1000-1800 engines from the Honda Goldwing. I like these for their sound and highly automotive performance. Plenty of power and torque, and available on Ebay. This engine, unlike the said Inline 2 and 3's above, is a flat6 so I could mount it infront of me or above the front wheels and still be able to see over it clearly VS the inline getting in my way. So witht his engine, I could have a F-RWD layout vs R-RWD/AWD (H5518 NA-4 AWD), so weight would be better balanced.

And then I come to the Honda Aquatrax12 and 15's. Not the Aquatrax12X or 15X. I don't want to deal with Turbocharging. I like a N/A engine, and a 197HP 4 cyl on a buggy sounds nice, but ridiculous. I mean.. My TSX has 200HP.. I'd like to keep the 1.5L turbo numbers away form my 2.4L N/A numbers. Haha.

Anyway, I'll go with the N/A Aquatrax F-12 inline 4. 135HP is plenty.

So which do you think I should go with? I'm thinking the Aquatrax and Goldwing will be the best for easy way out. Already FI, plenty of power.

Mounting one will be tough but I'll find away.


As for transmissions... I originally was going to go with a 6 Speed peerless from a lawnmower, but beef it up enough to handle the higher speeds and torque, but the GL Goldwing engines come with transmissions and the Aquatrax F-12 looks to be based off a R series engine, so I'm hoping I could get a manual or automatic even, bolted up to it.

The goldwing gearbox doesn't have a reverse, because it comes off a bike. It does have a electronic assisted reverse gear but it's just to help you push the bike backwards. So this is where I get stuck.


I don't know if the Jetski engine can be matted to a R series trans, and I don't know a work around for the non existent reverse gear in the GL. The GL engines ARE available on Ebay, the Aquatrax, not so much. Any ideas?

I'm crazy I know, this will never work. :P

BTW, did you catch that the Aquatrax F-12 is a N/A 1.2L making 135HP and probably about a 100 and some lb-ft? And the Turbo version makes a 165HP and probably 120+lb-ft?? What about the new Aquatrax 1.5L's making 170HP and a 197HP? Why isn't these engine in the Fit Si?? haha


RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Small Honda engines for dune buggy plus blabbering.    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2013 14:44
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Thats not a Dune Buggy its a 4 seater AFV! your building!

I keep mine at my brother's place in Cali,he has a 5-seater with a mid-engine blown 7.0L Corvette motor and I have a 2-seater with a blown stroked 4.5L Mugen V8 mid-engine with a two-speed tran.

But to your problem!

Pick the biggest engine that will fit in the frame because in off-road driving your going to need more low-end torque over top-end Horsepower!

In the early 90's everybody was building little lite 2-seater buggies with 900cc-1300cc streetbike engines that sound great and did ok on hard-pack desert/trail but where dogs in the sand!

RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Small Honda engines for dune buggy plus blabbering.    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2013 14:52
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If 1300cc or bigger use a VW Bug trans(everybody builds them) and they come from cheap(stock 4sp) to high dollar(build for racing/drag).
Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: Small Honda engines for dune buggy plus blabbering.    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2013 15:19
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Good points. The VW buggy builds are what are causing me to want to take on this project and build my own. Since I can no longer fit into my two seater Manco 415 with a 5HP Tecumseh, and weight about 180 now, I need to go bigger. I just don't like the new karts or buggies that are out there, and I figured I can do something myself and be way happier.


I'll like to use the Gold wing 1800 engine with a custom 6 speed that I can't mount upfront transversely and have a drive shaft coming from it to the rear and use a SH-AWD diff.

Basically I want a SH-AWD Buggy. Hell, minus well get the whole TL SH-AWD 6MT and just toss it in. lol.

But if I had to be realistic, I would probably do the Aquatrax F-15 N/A and put it all in the rear with a R series 5 speed (use a custom mounting plate between the bell housing and engine with a coupling on the crank/ input shaft) and call it a day. Later if I wanted I could get the VTM-4 diff and put it up front. I think i'll have to swap the 5speed for a AT out of a CR-V unless all the R series transmissions come with the 2nd output.

Wait the CR-V uses a K.. Hmmm oh well, custom mounting plate solves all. haha

superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Small Honda engines for dune buggy plus blabbering.    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-15-2013 15:20
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Go Vdub.
Thomas Crown Affair w. Steve McQueen!


mobis21
Profile for mobis21
Re: Small Honda engines for dune buggy plus blabbering.    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2013 07:02
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the Goldwing does have a reverse gear.
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Small Honda engines for dune buggy plus blabbering.    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2013 10:53
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RolledaNsx wrote:

I keep mine at my brother's place in Cali,he has a 5-seater with a mid-engine blown 7.0L Corvette motor and I have a 2-seater with a blown stroked 4.5L Mugen V8 mid-engine with a two-speed tran.



Really?!! Love to see some photos of the Mugen engined buggy!

Back in the 1970s my brother and I used to race a mid-engined Holden V8 buggy. Absolute rocket ship on smooth tracks, but slow everywhere else. But still fun passing other machines like they were standing still coming off of turns. Can't imagine what your two machines must go like................
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Small Honda engines for dune buggy plus blabbering.    (Score: 1, Normal) 07-16-2013 11:17
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There both tube frame sand rails(design for sand dunes and sand drag only).

They have high travel suspension(12-16 inch) with tiny dragster style tires upfront with big wide paddles in the rear(throw sand over 100 meters...people hate following us! we try to keep it down but when you come over the dune razor top...you can't help to drown the buggy behind you in sand :)~)

I keep mine on a mild pulley most of the time(600 hp ) but can change pulley but need to run racing gas (800 hp).
Brothers buggy is 900-1200 hp!!!
Hondatalover
Profile for Hondatalover
Re: Small Honda engines for dune buggy plus blabbering.    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-02-2013 21:41
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The engine I'll be using is a 640cc Honda GX640K1 (Related: GA01-A --GX360K1). It's pretty small but it packs a punch. Bore 76mm; Stroke 70mm 635cc inline two liquid cooled SOHC 4 valve, Compression 8:0:1, pressure lubricated non-contact engine (Piston and valves NEVER touch if the timing belt slips). 20HP @ 3,600rpm, 35LB-FT @ 2,500rpm.

Basically a miniature car engine. I read somewhere that said it's based off the early 90's/ late 80's D series.. cool! It's closly related to the GX360, but the 360 is alot smaller with a 58mm bore x 68mm stroke and features a less agressive cam shaft and a different head design with both the intake and exhaust ports on the same side (Heat stroke issues!). That engine was found in the Ht3813's and ES6500 genies, these are found in the 4518/4818's and the light duty H5518 tractors (Which offered AWD and 4WS!!).







The GX360's and are what are used in the following videos, but the engines run the same:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiVs6Q-Rp7k&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_I8dbMUQl8&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT7Wo-so4T8&list=FLmkHdnUckSSPRSu7RPpTYuQ&index=335

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFzZqmRAD4o&feature=related

Turbo charged high-rev (this uploader has a few more videos of it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZXQ2aMkWLo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhqzEeVnh50


Mind you that those are all GX360's which are a good size smaller then the GX640. They also have about half the power as the GX640.

I'll be switching the GX640 over to PGM-FI, along with it a 6,500 rev limiter and stiffer valve springs. Less restrictive intake and exhaust systems and a electronic fan instead of the crank driven one to free up some ponies and engine response.

Later on if I feel the need for even more power, I'll invest in having a custom camshaft made with slightly more aggressive lobes, and with more power, comes the need for more strength. So having custom billet a fly wheel and pistons and con rods made will ensure me a bit more safety. (If I could, I'll get a VTEC cam shaft in it and just have the solenoid kick over accordingly to the RPM. lol)

Here are the internals of a GX360. (I've got over 320 pictures!)










It will be mounted to a Peerless 633A38 transaxle. It's rated at some 40lb-ft and is geared for roughly 20MPH MAX, but it's a 870's model, so it's built tougher then they say. It's also oil, and not grease lubricated and feature heavy duty brass bushings. Here is a video of locking the differential in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDP9toQD-vE







It with the engine will be mounting much like a transverse layout in a car, but in the back of this! For now..
Dren
Profile for Dren
Re: Small Honda engines for dune buggy plus blabbering.    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-03-2013 10:38
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Looks nice. The conrod bolts were always a weak link in the D series motors.
 
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