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Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 02:25
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owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
I was at my Acura dealership last week. They acknowledged it was going to be very difficult to sell RLXs to the typical Honda/Acura fan/enthusiastic -- not because they can't afford it, but because they tend to be very practical, analytical, and value oriented. In other words, they know they can pick up an Accord Touring for $31K ($3K off MSRP) and the RLX just isn't worth the $20-25K premium.

Their sales strategy is to target current TL leasees and siphon off a small percentage of them to upgrade to the RLX for an extra $150/mo. or whatever.



I understand that the dealers can only do what is at a sales level, but you would think the first part of your statement would be a pretty big red flag to Acura. If you can't even sell it to your most loyal customers, what are the odds that you are going to be converting throngs of other brands' loyal customers? It is unlikely at best.



Not necessarily. Hyundai has to do the same thing with genesis and equus. Typical Hyundai customers aren't going to buy those models. They have to rely on conquest sales.

For the RLX, Acura will try to upgrade some TL customers from the home camp... and will try hard to obtain conquest sales (this will be challenging for all the reasons that everyone else has said as nauseum). Acura will likely fair a little better than Hyundai... because Acura is positioned as a step-up brand.



The Hyundai and Equus arguably offer more car for less to equal money, and they aren't exactly blowing them out...


A quick look at Edmunds shows that the Equius MSRP is $60,170. Invoice is $56,288. Their "True Market Value" is $55,326.
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 08:36
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Refreshing or Revolting?
The big story on the front end is Acura’s new Jewel Eye LED headlights. Each one houses gem-like light sources that give the front end a bit of bling and a more premium appearance. Although the five-point chrome grille remains, it’s much less polarizing now that the edges have been softened. Below the grille is a bigger air dam with a honeycomb grille with a lower fascia that curves slightly upward.

Looking at its profile, the RLX removes the RL’s side door moldings in favor of smooth doors. Below the doors, the RLX has a contour line that stretches all the way around the trunk while a more defined character line above the door handles connects to the taillights. The rear quarter window on the RLX is angled more sharply compared to the one on the outgoing car.

Around back, the taillights, connected by a slimmer chrome bar, are longer and are split on the trunk and rear quarter panel. The exhaust pipes are also absent, and two thin reflector lights flank the bumper.

Inside the RLX has a more modern instrument cluster and a larger, deeper set infotainment screen. The center stack has been cleaned up with fewer buttons, and the steering wheel now has a three-spoke design.







Last edited by JeffX on 07-01-2013 11:52
vh2k
Profile for vh2k
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 09:04
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Agreed. This will be a low volume model.
NealX
Profile for NealX
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 11:40
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From one generation to the next, it could appear as if these debuted around the same time - an RL and RLX - both circa 2009.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 15:44
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Colin wrote:
owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
I was at my Acura dealership last week. They acknowledged it was going to be very difficult to sell RLXs to the typical Honda/Acura fan/enthusiastic -- not because they can't afford it, but because they tend to be very practical, analytical, and value oriented. In other words, they know they can pick up an Accord Touring for $31K ($3K off MSRP) and the RLX just isn't worth the $20-25K premium.

Their sales strategy is to target current TL leasees and siphon off a small percentage of them to upgrade to the RLX for an extra $150/mo. or whatever.



I understand that the dealers can only do what is at a sales level, but you would think the first part of your statement would be a pretty big red flag to Acura. If you can't even sell it to your most loyal customers, what are the odds that you are going to be converting throngs of other brands' loyal customers? It is unlikely at best.



Not necessarily. Hyundai has to do the same thing with genesis and equus. Typical Hyundai customers aren't going to buy those models. They have to rely on conquest sales.

For the RLX, Acura will try to upgrade some TL customers from the home camp... and will try hard to obtain conquest sales (this will be challenging for all the reasons that everyone else has said as nauseum). Acura will likely fair a little better than Hyundai... because Acura is positioned as a step-up brand.



The Hyundai and Equus arguably offer more car for less to equal money, and they aren't exactly blowing them out...


A quick look at Edmunds shows that the Equius MSRP is $60,170. Invoice is $56,288. Their "True Market Value" is $55,326.



Which pretty much proves my point. More car for equal money. The Genesis would be cheaper and still arguably offer at least as much car. Even with a conversion rate of .8:1 on the horsepower scale, the Hyundai's are probably still more drivable, responsive and luxurious feeling (at the price of the RL both cars will be equipped with a V8). I am not a fan of the Equus at all, and the Genesis grill is still hideous, but they are also both arguably better looking.
Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 22:27
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owequitit wrote:
Colin wrote:
owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
I was at my Acura dealership last week. They acknowledged it was going to be very difficult to sell RLXs to the typical Honda/Acura fan/enthusiastic -- not because they can't afford it, but because they tend to be very practical, analytical, and value oriented. In other words, they know they can pick up an Accord Touring for $31K ($3K off MSRP) and the RLX just isn't worth the $20-25K premium.

Their sales strategy is to target current TL leasees and siphon off a small percentage of them to upgrade to the RLX for an extra $150/mo. or whatever.



I understand that the dealers can only do what is at a sales level, but you would think the first part of your statement would be a pretty big red flag to Acura. If you can't even sell it to your most loyal customers, what are the odds that you are going to be converting throngs of other brands' loyal customers? It is unlikely at best.



Not necessarily. Hyundai has to do the same thing with genesis and equus. Typical Hyundai customers aren't going to buy those models. They have to rely on conquest sales.

For the RLX, Acura will try to upgrade some TL customers from the home camp... and will try hard to obtain conquest sales (this will be challenging for all the reasons that everyone else has said as nauseum). Acura will likely fair a little better than Hyundai... because Acura is positioned as a step-up brand.



The Hyundai and Equus arguably offer more car for less to equal money, and they aren't exactly blowing them out...


A quick look at Edmunds shows that the Equius MSRP is $60,170. Invoice is $56,288. Their "True Market Value" is $55,326.



Which pretty much proves my point. More car for equal money. The Genesis would be cheaper and still arguably offer at least as much car. Even with a conversion rate of .8:1 on the horsepower scale, the Hyundai's are probably still more drivable, responsive and luxurious feeling (at the price of the RL both cars will be equipped with a V8). I am not a fan of the Equus at all, and the Genesis grill is still hideous, but they are also both arguably better looking.


but doesn't indicate that they are indeed 'blowing them out?'
jshaw
Profile for jshaw
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 23:43
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^^Eh? The V8 hyundais haven't sold well, mostly since the V6 has almost all of the same feel of the V8 (it's not like the genesis coupe, where the i4 and v6 do feel different). You'd have to really step into the throttle to feel any difference in the sedans.

At any rate, the Genesis is just about to be replaced with a new model. I wouldn't be surprised to see the V8 offered with AWD and with that rumored 10 speed auto (likely to be as lame as the current 8 speed), it will still put down downright fast 0-60 times. If the suspension/chasis is even a smidgen better, people may be willing to overlook the Hyundai interior.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-17-2013 04:11
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Colin wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Colin wrote:
owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
I was at my Acura dealership last week. They acknowledged it was going to be very difficult to sell RLXs to the typical Honda/Acura fan/enthusiastic -- not because they can't afford it, but because they tend to be very practical, analytical, and value oriented. In other words, they know they can pick up an Accord Touring for $31K ($3K off MSRP) and the RLX just isn't worth the $20-25K premium.

Their sales strategy is to target current TL leasees and siphon off a small percentage of them to upgrade to the RLX for an extra $150/mo. or whatever.



I understand that the dealers can only do what is at a sales level, but you would think the first part of your statement would be a pretty big red flag to Acura. If you can't even sell it to your most loyal customers, what are the odds that you are going to be converting throngs of other brands' loyal customers? It is unlikely at best.



Not necessarily. Hyundai has to do the same thing with genesis and equus. Typical Hyundai customers aren't going to buy those models. They have to rely on conquest sales.

For the RLX, Acura will try to upgrade some TL customers from the home camp... and will try hard to obtain conquest sales (this will be challenging for all the reasons that everyone else has said as nauseum). Acura will likely fair a little better than Hyundai... because Acura is positioned as a step-up brand.



The Hyundai and Equus arguably offer more car for less to equal money, and they aren't exactly blowing them out...


A quick look at Edmunds shows that the Equius MSRP is $60,170. Invoice is $56,288. Their "True Market Value" is $55,326.



Which pretty much proves my point. More car for equal money. The Genesis would be cheaper and still arguably offer at least as much car. Even with a conversion rate of .8:1 on the horsepower scale, the Hyundai's are probably still more drivable, responsive and luxurious feeling (at the price of the RL both cars will be equipped with a V8). I am not a fan of the Equus at all, and the Genesis grill is still hideous, but they are also both arguably better looking.


but doesn't indicate that they are indeed 'blowing them out?'



If you look at sales numbers for the Genesis and Equus, then you would see that Hyundai isn't exactly blowing them out. Compared to other cars they compete against, the sales are not impressive (remember that Genesis numbers also include the coupe). My point as originally stated was that Hyundai offers an arguably more compelling car at a lower price (or another at an equal price) and they aren't moving very many.

As of yet, the RLX has yet to prove that it will even match the Genesis/Equus numbers, and the RL certainly never did.
Colin
Profile for Colin
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-17-2013 04:57
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owequitit wrote:
Colin wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Colin wrote:
owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
I was at my Acura dealership last week. They acknowledged it was going to be very difficult to sell RLXs to the typical Honda/Acura fan/enthusiastic -- not because they can't afford it, but because they tend to be very practical, analytical, and value oriented. In other words, they know they can pick up an Accord Touring for $31K ($3K off MSRP) and the RLX just isn't worth the $20-25K premium.

Their sales strategy is to target current TL leasees and siphon off a small percentage of them to upgrade to the RLX for an extra $150/mo. or whatever.



I understand that the dealers can only do what is at a sales level, but you would think the first part of your statement would be a pretty big red flag to Acura. If you can't even sell it to your most loyal customers, what are the odds that you are going to be converting throngs of other brands' loyal customers? It is unlikely at best.



Not necessarily. Hyundai has to do the same thing with genesis and equus. Typical Hyundai customers aren't going to buy those models. They have to rely on conquest sales.

For the RLX, Acura will try to upgrade some TL customers from the home camp... and will try hard to obtain conquest sales (this will be challenging for all the reasons that everyone else has said as nauseum). Acura will likely fair a little better than Hyundai... because Acura is positioned as a step-up brand.



The Hyundai and Equus arguably offer more car for less to equal money, and they aren't exactly blowing them out...


A quick look at Edmunds shows that the Equius MSRP is $60,170. Invoice is $56,288. Their "True Market Value" is $55,326.



Which pretty much proves my point. More car for equal money. The Genesis would be cheaper and still arguably offer at least as much car. Even with a conversion rate of .8:1 on the horsepower scale, the Hyundai's are probably still more drivable, responsive and luxurious feeling (at the price of the RL both cars will be equipped with a V8). I am not a fan of the Equus at all, and the Genesis grill is still hideous, but they are also both arguably better looking.


but doesn't indicate that they are indeed 'blowing them out?'



If you look at sales numbers for the Genesis and Equus, then you would see that Hyundai isn't exactly blowing them out. Compared to other cars they compete against, the sales are not impressive (remember that Genesis numbers also include the coupe). My point as originally stated was that Hyundai offers an arguably more compelling car at a lower price (or another at an equal price) and they aren't moving very many.

As of yet, the RLX has yet to prove that it will even match the Genesis/Equus numbers, and the RL certainly never did.


I though 'blowing them out' was synonymous with 'selling them cheaply' to move them.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-17-2013 13:05
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Colin wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Colin wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Colin wrote:
owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
owequitit wrote:
vh2k wrote:
I was at my Acura dealership last week. They acknowledged it was going to be very difficult to sell RLXs to the typical Honda/Acura fan/enthusiastic -- not because they can't afford it, but because they tend to be very practical, analytical, and value oriented. In other words, they know they can pick up an Accord Touring for $31K ($3K off MSRP) and the RLX just isn't worth the $20-25K premium.

Their sales strategy is to target current TL leasees and siphon off a small percentage of them to upgrade to the RLX for an extra $150/mo. or whatever.



I understand that the dealers can only do what is at a sales level, but you would think the first part of your statement would be a pretty big red flag to Acura. If you can't even sell it to your most loyal customers, what are the odds that you are going to be converting throngs of other brands' loyal customers? It is unlikely at best.



Not necessarily. Hyundai has to do the same thing with genesis and equus. Typical Hyundai customers aren't going to buy those models. They have to rely on conquest sales.

For the RLX, Acura will try to upgrade some TL customers from the home camp... and will try hard to obtain conquest sales (this will be challenging for all the reasons that everyone else has said as nauseum). Acura will likely fair a little better than Hyundai... because Acura is positioned as a step-up brand.



The Hyundai and Equus arguably offer more car for less to equal money, and they aren't exactly blowing them out...


A quick look at Edmunds shows that the Equius MSRP is $60,170. Invoice is $56,288. Their "True Market Value" is $55,326.



Which pretty much proves my point. More car for equal money. The Genesis would be cheaper and still arguably offer at least as much car. Even with a conversion rate of .8:1 on the horsepower scale, the Hyundai's are probably still more drivable, responsive and luxurious feeling (at the price of the RL both cars will be equipped with a V8). I am not a fan of the Equus at all, and the Genesis grill is still hideous, but they are also both arguably better looking.


but doesn't indicate that they are indeed 'blowing them out?'



If you look at sales numbers for the Genesis and Equus, then you would see that Hyundai isn't exactly blowing them out. Compared to other cars they compete against, the sales are not impressive (remember that Genesis numbers also include the coupe). My point as originally stated was that Hyundai offers an arguably more compelling car at a lower price (or another at an equal price) and they aren't moving very many.

As of yet, the RLX has yet to prove that it will even match the Genesis/Equus numbers, and the RL certainly never did.


I though 'blowing them out' was synonymous with 'selling them cheaply' to move them.



In the context I was using it "blowing them out" meant moving so much volume they couldn't keep up...

Perhaps the wrong usage of the term.
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-19-2013 22:38
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This is probably the best I have seen the RLX look so far:

TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2013 08:14
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Men's Health: Acura Nails the Cruiser
Of course, systems like this are ripe for abuse, and there will certainly be some who use this trick feature as a texting and smartphone-surfing enabler. But Acura spots those bozos a mile away: If you take your hands off the wheel, the system starts to fade out and an alert pops up on the instrument cluster helpfully reminding you that “Steering is Required.”

All of these techie refinements are great—and certainly push Acura’s RL replacement to an attractively competitive position—but is it enough to place the car in standing with the likes the top-shelf offerings of Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes? Yes and no. The RLX is positioned as an economical entry-level to the top-end luxury market, so while it’s Acura’s flagship, it competes most directly with other manufacturer’s second-tier offerings, such as the BMW 5-Series and the Mercedes E-Class. It still feels like a re-imagined Accord more than a fully luxed-out statement-car of its own. But that considered, the RLX is still competitive, feature- and performance-wise, with the S-Class Merc and the 7-Series BMW. Furthermore, it’s cheaper than all of those, starting at $48,000 and topping out at about 60 grand for the fully loaded Advance Package.

xBeastx
Profile for xBeastx
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2013 08:59
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JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2013 09:34
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vh2k wrote:
I was at my Acura dealership last week. They acknowledged it was going to be very difficult to sell RLXs to the typical Honda/Acura fan/enthusiastic -- not because they can't afford it, but because they tend to be very practical, analytical, and value oriented. In other words, they know they can pick up an Accord Touring for $31K ($3K off MSRP) and the RLX just isn't worth the $20-25K premium.

Their sales strategy is to target current TL leasees and siphon off a small percentage of them to upgrade to the RLX for an extra $150/mo. or whatever.



I know i'm late to this branch of the discussion, but I just saw this post. I have to say that might have been a decent strategy had Acura not screwed the pooch so badly with the 4th gen TL. I get the feeling that the TL driving population is incredibly fragmented. There are probably some folks who bought it for the styling, but since the car sold soooo poorly I know of a lot of people who hopped on because they could get it for barely any more (and in some cases with some of Acura's lease deals, for LESS) than a mainstream family sedan like an Accord or Camry.

If Acura had timed this RLX to have appeared in '09 MY when this generation TL came out then maybe they could have gotten a lot of conversions/upgrades from 3G TL drivers, and maybe they would have had far fewer brand defections.

In any case, this sales strategy you mention smacks of desperation.
6SPDTL
Profile for 6SPDTL
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2013 11:30
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You should read their report on the A6. CR rates it as the best driver of the whole lot of midsize luxury vehicles by a significant margin.
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2013 18:56
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6SPDTL wrote:
You should read their report on the A6. CR rates it as the best driver of the whole lot of midsize luxury vehicles by a significant margin.


Yeah and it's still not any better than an '06 Legend in handling, let alone seating! Just goes to show Acura really screwed it up.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-21-2013 19:47
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6SPDTL wrote:
You should read their report on the A6. CR rates it as the best driver of the whole lot of midsize luxury vehicles by a significant margin.


haha, Consumer Reports? I don't value their opinion at all when it comes to vehicle dynamics. I know they carry some weight in the consumer's mind but I don't even trust their reliability ratings.
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-22-2013 07:04
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vh2k wrote:
I was at my Acura dealership last week. They acknowledged it was going to be very difficult to sell RLXs to the typical Honda/Acura fan/enthusiastic -- not because they can't afford it, but because they tend to be very practical, analytical, and value oriented. In other words, they know they can pick up an Accord Touring for $31K ($3K off MSRP) and the RLX just isn't worth the $20-25K premium.

Their sales strategy is to target current TL leasees and siphon off a small percentage of them to upgrade to the RLX for an extra $150/mo. or whatever.


The two local dealers in my area are now showing a total of 7 RLX's in stock. The 3 lowest priced one's all have the technology package, coming in at $55,345.



xBeastx
Profile for xBeastx
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-22-2013 10:21
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superchg2 wrote:
vh2k wrote:
I was at my Acura dealership last week. They acknowledged it was going to be very difficult to sell RLXs to the typical Honda/Acura fan/enthusiastic -- not because they can't afford it, but because they tend to be very practical, analytical, and value oriented. In other words, they know they can pick up an Accord Touring for $31K ($3K off MSRP) and the RLX just isn't worth the $20-25K premium.

Their sales strategy is to target current TL leasees and siphon off a small percentage of them to upgrade to the RLX for an extra $150/mo. or whatever.


The two local dealers in my area are now showing a total of 7 RLX's in stock. The 3 lowest priced one's all have the technology package, coming in at $55,345.


My local dealer only has one 2014 RLX w/ Technology Package, but they haven't put up the price yet. Does anyone know if the base RLX even exists? I can't find any pictures of it.
NickDC5
Profile for NickDC5
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-30-2013 10:15
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324000704578386492171450454.html#printMode

Acura RLX: Larger, but It Still Comes Up Small

Biggest takeaway: "Making the RLX bigger fixes nothing. The RL's problem, and now the RLX's, is that the car looks and feels like an exalted, compulsively over-equipped Honda Accord."

Not going to post the whole review, you can read it if you want but here's another quote:

There's some psychobabble in the press kit about the car's "aero-fused" cabin silhouette and "decisive character lines" along the fuselage. Please. The shape is as somber as a medieval manuscript, and these wavering character lines induce moments of visual sag around the front quarter panels, making the car look like a suspension bridge that's sprung a few cables.

Nothing about the foregoing should surprise Acura, the luxury adjunct of Honda. The RLX is a very calculated product, and the calculation is simply that the company could save development money by retaining a front-drive platform and winning over luxury buyers with the RLX's wealth of onboard driver-assist, convenience and entertainment technologies.


Have there honestly been ANY reviews on this car that don't say "Well it's built well, but it doesn't compete at all because it's still a freaking Accord," out there?

Looks like Honda's getting exactly what they asked for. Mediocre effort, mediocre product.
cksi1372
Profile for cksi1372
Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-30-2013 12:48
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That was a pretty funny article and spot on, IMO.

I was at the Acura dealer yesterday picking up a filter for the MDX and they had a black RLX on the showroom floor and a silver one outside. My first impression was that it is nice, but that's about it. Just another bland, big vehicle for the blue haired crowd (no offense :) ), in typical Acura style. They are really trying to be the Japanese Buick and this puts Acura right on par with them. The one thing that stuck out for some reason was the P-AWS emblem on the back of the vehicle...good god, the cat jokes will be flying. It may be stupid, but it really seems to cheapen what is supposed to be a "luxury" vehicle. I know Acura wants to highlight that feature, but man, it looks really out of place and seems to draw more attention than what should be drawing attention...Acura and then RLX. I guess this goes back to marketing, product planning, or whomever really has no idea how to play in the luxury end of the market.

One of the salesmen came over and we chatted for a minute and he just said it drives really well, highlighting P-AWS. I said, yeah, but it looks like a tarted up Accord and will miss the mark in this segment, IMO. I think he got it and just smiled and moved on...I was just checking it out anyway and had no interest in driving. It was very spacious inside, although not as big as I though it would be, and the ergonomics seemed to be typical Honda/Acura fashion...very good. The middle armrest area was huge and looked more fitting in an SUV. The materials seemed to be a notch better than typical Acura and the seats were a little more firm than our MDX...which I like.

Overall, my quick impression a "nice" vehicle, but it's not going to really draw anyone into the showroom, IMO. It's just too bland, even in black, which I love. The rims looked a little better in person, but still not "sporty" which I think you need because the overall design is so bland. I honestly think that the only people looking at this will probably only be cross-shopping it with an XTS, larger Buick (not even sure of the name anymore), Lincoln, Genesis/Equus, and MAYBE an E Class. I doubt very few BMW or Audi owners will even consider it and as a BMW owner, as well, not a chance I'd consider, but really cars in this class are too big for my liking, anyway. That's what the MDX is for...
JMU R1
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Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-30-2013 12:54
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The thing that I find silly about all of the Accord stuff is that if the car had a Lexus badge on it but was still secretly built by Honda, they wouldn't know the difference.

But, the RLX automatically starts off behind in the minds of automotive journos because it was built off the Accord platform, regardless of the actual merits and performance of the car. This is a problem for Acura that is simply not going to go away.

Question is, will the lost sales and brand perception due to platform sharing cost them more than simply building an Acura platform? I think over time (10-15 years) Acura can overcome some of the stigma but I think if they gave Acura its own platform, the sky would be the limit.
jshaw
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Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-30-2013 13:15
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^^ Yeah, then naysayers would point to Infiniti, and scream, "their FR platform plan hasn't worked - they sell less than Acura!"

Ignoring how that one FR platform basically saved a middling company with no direction, and resparked a bit of the, "enthusiast," products at Nissan, even if they are heavily overweight.

Also ignoring how the ancient Infiniti G37 is outselling any Acura sedan (well, so is the Hyundai Genesis, but that's another problem for Acura).

The deal is, the Lexus ES is sometimes dismissed for being a Camry platform mate, but it doesn't feel like a Camry. At any rate, it's not their flagship. Lexus has a more powerful GS midsizer, and a LS flagship, which doesn't share any platform with any Toyota product, anywhere in the world. One step below the ES, reveals a FR sports sedan (maligned and small, however, it exists). All of those cars (well, not the ES and IS) build brand equity, which effectively forgives the existence of, "lessor vehicles."
owequitit
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Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-30-2013 16:47
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jshaw wrote:
^^ Yeah, then naysayers would point to Infiniti, and scream, "their FR platform plan hasn't worked - they sell less than Acura!"

Ignoring how that one FR platform basically saved a middling company with no direction, and resparked a bit of the, "enthusiast," products at Nissan, even if they are heavily overweight.

Also ignoring how the ancient Infiniti G37 is outselling any Acura sedan (well, so is the Hyundai Genesis, but that's another problem for Acura).

The deal is, the Lexus ES is sometimes dismissed for being a Camry platform mate, but it doesn't feel like a Camry. At any rate, it's not their flagship. Lexus has a more powerful GS midsizer, and a LS flagship, which doesn't share any platform with any Toyota product, anywhere in the world. One step below the ES, reveals a FR sports sedan (maligned and small, however, it exists). All of those cars (well, not the ES and IS) build brand equity, which effectively forgives the existence of, "lessor vehicles."



That and the only derivative Toyota Lexus tops out around $40K rather than $60K. That plays a huge role in Acura's perception problems as well.
TSX69
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Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-30-2013 21:11
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NY Times
In the new RLX, the rear wheels are steered by electric actuators on each side of the rear suspension. As a result, the left and right rear wheels can steer independently of each other. The system, which was in development for 5 years, adds just 11 pounds to the car’s weight, said Yousuke Sekino, chief engineer of the RLX, whose credentials include designing the suspensions for the 1986 Acura Legend and the 1990 NSX supercar.

Unlike the front wheels, which turn in a wide sweep, the RLX’s rear wheels turn only a small amount, a maximum of 2 degrees left or 2 degrees right from center. They also react differently depending on the situation. Under braking, both turn inward slightly to increase the car’s straight-ahead stability. As the driver turns into a right-hand corner, the rear wheels steer slightly left to make the car turn more quickly; in a left-hand corner, they do the opposite.

At parking lot speeds, this opposite-direction steering also makes the car more maneuverable in tight spots. At freeway speeds, the system automatically switches modes; the rear wheels then turn in the same direction as the fronts. That’s to improve control in situations like diving across multiple lanes for an off-ramp.

The almost-undetectable labors of these systems are intended to make the RLX more agile and free it from understeer, or the tendency to plow forward even if the steering wheel is turned.

For those who have enough trouble steering just the front wheels, fear not; the actuators are not directly linked to the steering wheel. Rather, a computer determines from the driver’s inputs into the steering wheel, brake and gas pedal how best to steer the rear wheels to improve handling. And, unlike Honda’s previous 4-wheel-steering system for the Prelude model of the 1990s, P-AWS shuts off when the car is in reverse. “Many drivers complained about that,” Mr. Sekino said.
TSX69
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Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-01-2013 08:45
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Acura Launches New RLX With An Attitude, But Is It Enough?
Robinson noted the “inherent benefit” of front-wheel drive such as lighter weight and the ability to put together a smaller exterior footprint with greater interior space. “It’s roughly the same exterior size even as [RL] was, and as its mid-size competitors, but it has noticeably more interior space.”

And while Robinson conceded that conventional wisdom in the upscale market is suspicious of front-wheel drive, he maintained that the new Acura Precision All-Wheel Steering system allows RLX to “handle better in most situations than rear- or all-wheel drive, and in extreme situations as well as them.” The handling-countermeasure system allows the rear wheels to be pointed, independently, up to 2 degrees of toe-angle adjustment in either direction, for 4 degrees of articulation.

But respected critic Dan Neil of the Wall Street Journal is among those who’ve already weighed in with criticism of Honda’s decision to choose front-wheel-drive for the RLX; Robinson said the configuration also is “something that we’re looking at for other sedans.”

Noting the “inherent advantages” and the ubiquity of rear-wheel drive in the segment, Neil wondered “what value [Acura's countermeasures] have to the consumer if all they do is restore the RLX to merely passable luxury-sedan performance.” And Neil opined that Acura “simply [decided that it] could save development money by retaining a front-drive platform and winning over luxury buyers with the RLX’s wealth of onboard driver-assist, convenience and entertainment technologies.”
JeffX
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Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-01-2013 12:33
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TSX69 wrote:
Acura Launches New RLX With An Attitude, But Is It Enough?
Robinson noted the “inherent benefit” of front-wheel drive such as lighter weight and the ability to put together a smaller exterior footprint with greater interior space. “It’s roughly the same exterior size even as [RL] was, and as its mid-size competitors, but it has noticeably more interior space.”

And while Robinson conceded that conventional wisdom in the upscale market is suspicious of front-wheel drive, he maintained that the new Acura Precision All-Wheel Steering system allows RLX to “handle better in most situations than rear- or all-wheel drive, and in extreme situations as well as them.” The handling-countermeasure system allows the rear wheels to be pointed, independently, up to 2 degrees of toe-angle adjustment in either direction, for 4 degrees of articulation.

But respected critic Dan Neil of the Wall Street Journal is among those who’ve already weighed in with criticism of Honda’s decision to choose front-wheel-drive for the RLX; Robinson said the configuration also is “something that we’re looking at for other sedans.”

Noting the “inherent advantages” and the ubiquity of rear-wheel drive in the segment, Neil wondered “what value [Acura's countermeasures] have to the consumer if all they do is restore the RLX to merely passable luxury-sedan performance.” And Neil opined that Acura “simply [decided that it] could save development money by retaining a front-drive platform and winning over luxury buyers with the RLX’s wealth of onboard driver-assist, convenience and entertainment technologies.”



I am not going to argue that final point from Dan - I'm a little disappointed that Honda has jumped in with both feet on all these technogadgets that essentially push the driver further from the driving equation. Unfortunately it seems like these technologies are quickly becoming a "checklist" line item type of requirement in the present marketplace. I'm not sure what all will survive but I have a feeling some of these technologies will dry up if they don't improve their value substantially. Right now a lot of them are novelties, and some are quite annoying novelties.

I will borrow an RLX for a more long term drive - won't have a chance to do that for a few weeks, but I did drive it a good while during the press preview event and took it out on the track. I think some of the criticism is quite overblown but I guess some drivers may be more sensitive to some things than others. For example, one of the biggest drawbacks I found to the RLX's FWD setup was putting power down at low speeds. You could pretty easily blow the tires off if the road was slightly damp. Even on dry roads, accelerating from a stop up even a mild grade shifts enough weight rearward that wheelspin can become a bit of an annoying issue. Those are probably the biggest drawbacks that I observed. I was not at all displeased with the handling feel on any of the roads we drove - the chassis is very willing and mostly neutral. There were a few circumstances where a quick transition would come up and the logic seemed to think that in phase steering would be better at first, and then it realized it needed to swap phases, so it felt slow to react in those type of situations (like a sudden road kink taken at high speed), but on a sinewy two lane with small to medium radius turns, the car really performed well. What I found to be reallynice was the sensation of having a bit more reserve, like you're on a pretty tight corner and then the radius suddenly tightens - I felt like the car dealt easily with those type of situations, where other cars I have driven (even FR ones) would often push wide in those cases.

So again, I am a bit surprised that Dan railed the RLX for the driving part of it, because I honestly thought it drove pretty well, save for those few items I noted. I will know more after spending a while in one on familiar roads, but fair or not, this type of review is definitely NOT a good indicator for the RLX or Acura at this point.
longhorn
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Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-01-2013 13:05
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JMU R1 wrote:
The thing that I find silly about all of the Accord stuff is that if the car had a Lexus badge on it but was still secretly built by Honda, they wouldn't know the difference.

But, the RLX automatically starts off behind in the minds of automotive journos because it was built off the Accord platform, regardless of the actual merits and performance of the car. This is a problem for Acura that is simply not going to go away.

Question is, will the lost sales and brand perception due to platform sharing cost them more than simply building an Acura platform? I think over time (10-15 years) Acura can overcome some of the stigma but I think if they gave Acura its own platform, the sky would be the limit.



Maybe its me, but its kind of easy to see the Accord hard points on the RLX. The trick to platform sharing is hiding the hard points.
Nick GravesX
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Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-01-2013 13:17
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I wonder if it's slow reactions in the kink situation, or it's designed momentarily to de-stabilise the car before gathering it up again?

Emergency lane-change transitions were one the 'Lude's strengths - wet or dry.

Also, I do believe it takes a little while to learn its quirks. A bit like the first time one tries FWD or RWD or AWD. And yes, weight transference of take-off is an irk it cannot fix. So is the slightly frumpy proportion.

JeffX
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Re: Acura RLX Reviews    (Score: 1, Normal) 04-01-2013 13:47
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Nick GravesX wrote:
I wonder if it's slow reactions in the kink situation, or it's designed momentarily to de-stabilise the car before gathering it up again?

Emergency lane-change transitions were one the 'Lude's strengths - wet or dry.

Also, I do believe it takes a little while to learn its quirks. A bit like the first time one tries FWD or RWD or AWD. And yes, weight transference of take-off is an irk it cannot fix. So is the slightly frumpy proportion.




It maintains perfect composure during the entire maneuver but the problem with that maneuver is that the car takes a beat too long to react. I mowed down a cone on the auto-x due to it, until i started steering ahead of the car through there. Almost put a wheel off on the 2 lane due to it, then crossed slightly over the center line. Oops. Feels slightly unnatural, but everything else felt very intuitive



Last edited by JeffX on 04-01-2013 13:48
 
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