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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: US to Metric System?

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xBeastx
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US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2013 12:27
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Opinions. All discussion welcome. I'll begin.

I am strongly in favor of the US (along with the two other small countries) switching over to the metric system officially. I already use Celsius on all my devices that display weather, and I also use km and m for gps, etc. Not only that, but I understand it perfectly and can visualize the real life distances.

This would make a difference in the car world. Here in the US, most speedometers have both mph and kmh units, which I think is very unnecessary and cluttered. It looks so much cleaner without them.

US Honda Accord:



All other Accords. The look is so much cleaner and simpler.

BachelorFrog
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2013 12:38
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'Murica.
A77
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2013 13:07
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canadian accords also have miles. Canada is metric but still buys two by fours and measure our houses is sq feet... mpg is a far more logical parameter than litres per 100 kms.... imperial measurements relate to actual things - thumbs, feet, arms...farenheit is more precise......UK still uses miles....but is metric otherwise.... but in all other ways metric is a simpler system and the rest of the world uses it - so you'd think the US has to change eventually. I seem to remember in Star Trek they used both though....
xBeastx
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2013 13:44
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A77 wrote:
mpg is a far more logical parameter than litres per 100 kms

There's always km per litre!
Jovian8
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2013 15:50
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There is no logic with human beings...
How about mixing the 2 systems in one spec:

Tire size 205/55x16 anyone ?

Dream'R
Profile for Dream'R
Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2013 16:01
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As A77 mentions, Canada "adopted" the metric system over 30 years ago. However, in everyday use the Imperial measurements are still very common. While our gas is sold in litres and distances are in kilometres, car manufacurers persist in reporting highway fuel economy in miles per imperial gallon which is 1/6th higher than mpgUS. Further, they use the old "unadjusted" EPA ratings which serves to further inflate the mileage claims.

Unfortunately, until the US adopts the metric system I see no end to the confusion. Don't get me going about the insane measurements found in the grocery stores!

As an aside, one real advantage with the Civic digital speedometer is its ability to switch between miles and kilometres and in my hybrid it also switches fuel economy readings between liters/100km and mpgUS. For travellers going to either Canada or Mexico this is very handy.
chavv
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2013 16:46
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A77 wrote:
mpg is a far more logical parameter than litres per 100 kms....

Really?
Using non-linear values is more logical for humans?
Do you claim that improvement of 2 mpg is always more important than improvement of 1 mpg?
Like 48mpg->50 and 19mpg->20?

A77
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2013 16:52
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I guess I am getting what I am used to interfere with logic.....I'd prefer km per litre...

My foot is twelve inches long - what use is that? A metre is "Originally intended to be one ten-millionth of the distance from the Earth's equator to the North Pole (at sea level), its definition has been periodically refined to reflect growing knowledge of metrology. Since 1983, it has been defined as "the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second"...very handy.
jshaw
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2013 18:57
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A77 wrote:
canadian accords also have miles. Canada is metric but still buys two by fours and measure our houses is sq feet... mpg is a far more logical parameter than litres per 100 kms.... imperial measurements relate to actual things - thumbs, feet, arms...farenheit is more precise......UK still uses miles....but is metric otherwise.... but in all other ways metric is a simpler system and the rest of the world uses it - so you'd think the US has to change eventually. I seem to remember in Star Trek they used both though....

"MPG" has it's flaws. When the engine is coasting, is it getting 999MPG+ or using 0l/km? 0l/km makes more sense, IMO. It states the gas usage per distance, rather than distance per unit of gas.
xBeastx
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-15-2013 18:58
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I think we can fix this problem. We just need to take small steps. Perhaps get a small town together to add a km/h sign to the mph signs. Then people with digital speedometers can just switch over. This may not seem like a big deal - one small town, but imagine if all communities thought like this. Without even knowing it, everyone would be using the metric system without any government help!
Power Of Dreams
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 05:32
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I'm 100% in favor of us switching over to the metric system with the least of my worries being what the last generation Accord speedometers looked like :)

It makes things much easier. If I'm 1.83 meters tall and I have to travel 60 kilometers and then make a turn in 30 meters.

gogzy
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 05:33
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didn't the conversion failure cost NASA Mars orbiter in 1999? I am all for metric, it's linear and so easier to perform comparison. is naval industry use km/h too? i think military conversion alone would cause some $$ and headache.
Grace141
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 08:26
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Jovian8 wrote:
There is no logic with human beings...
How about mixing the 2 systems in one spec:

Tire size 205/55x16 anyone ?



I have to say the current system for tires is much easier to understand than the old A78-13 type designations. Everyone knew F-series tires were wider than A-series tires but no one knew by how much. The system before that, the 6.00-15 system, seemed more sensible.

I've always assumed the metric section width for modern tires came from the radial tire being largely a French development with wheel diameters in inches being English. Credit to Ford for trying to change the industry with the TRX system in the '80s which unfortunately failed.

OK, I'm not sure where the S in the 155SR12 size for the 1st gen Civic came from.
xBeastx
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 16:13
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jshaw wrote:
A77 wrote:
canadian accords also have miles. Canada is metric but still buys two by fours and measure our houses is sq feet... mpg is a far more logical parameter than litres per 100 kms.... imperial measurements relate to actual things - thumbs, feet, arms...farenheit is more precise......UK still uses miles....but is metric otherwise.... but in all other ways metric is a simpler system and the rest of the world uses it - so you'd think the US has to change eventually. I seem to remember in Star Trek they used both though....

"MPG" has it's flaws. When the engine is coasting, is it getting 999MPG+ or using 0l/km? 0l/km makes more sense, IMO. It states the gas usage per distance, rather than distance per unit of gas.


Haha...you would be getting infinite miles per gallon, which makes no sense. I like your example. However, one thing that I don't see switching over - which hasn't in any other country that I'm aware of - is wheel size. No matter where people live in the world, I have always heard them referring to the wheel size as inches.
fritzdick
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 16:46
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Many of you may be too young to remember but I think it was about 30 years ago there was a big push in the US to switch over to the metric system. As i recall when they looked at all the measurements that would have to change, they abandoned the idea. For example, think how many things are measured by square footage...homes, carpet, tile, etc. Would every appraisal office in the country have to change their appraisal/tax records to square meters? How about items sold by the pound? Distances on maps, elevations,etc. I think the discussion here is being rerstriced to automotive issues, but switching to metric would be very expensive for everything that would have to change not even taking into account the learning curve for almost everyone.

xBeastx wrote:
Opinions. All discussion welcome. I'll begin.

I am strongly in favor of the US (along with the two other small countries) switching over to the metric system officially. I already use Celsius on all my devices that display weather, I also use km and m for gps, etc. Not only that, but I understand it perfectly and can visualize the real life distances.

This would make a difference in the car world. Here in the US, most speedometers have both mph and kmh units, which I think is very unnecessary and cluttered. It looks so much cleaner without them.

US Honda Accord:



All other Accords. The look is so much cleaner and simpler.



Jovian8
Profile for Jovian8
Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-16-2013 17:47
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How about our British friends that suffered
before they went to decimal currency? ;-)

Old system

Under the old currency of pounds, shillings and pence, the pound was made up of 240 pence (denoted by the letter d for Latin denarius and now referred to as "old pence"), with 12 pence in a shilling and 20 shillings (denoted by s for Latin solidus) in a pound.

Especially in an era before widespread computer use, this meant that monetary calculation, such as adding up sums of money, was more complicated than with a decimal currency, while tourists were also confused by coins such as the "half-crown" (worth two shillings and sixpence, or one eighth of a pound). The loss of value of the currency meant that the penny, with the same diameter as the U.S. half dollar, was of relatively slight value, while the farthing, which was worth one-quarter of an old penny, had been demonetised on 1 January 1961.
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-17-2013 01:29
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North American engineers already work in a mix of metric and imperial units. Really, it's not big deal, as long as you remember the conversions for imperial units. The best thing about working in SI units is that you only need to know there are 1000mm in a m, 1000m in a km, and so forth in a base 10 unit that's consistent no matter what unit you're working in. None of this stupid 12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard type deal.

How many furlongs per fortnight?

In cars like the '06 Civic, you can switch the digital speedo between km and miles, so it looks clean regardless =D
Inebriated Snake
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-17-2013 02:57
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I think most cars are already built in metric. Its wonderful really. When working with friends on a car its so much easier to remember right wrench. "10, 12, 14", and no "*th of an *th".
xBeastx
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-17-2013 10:43
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Does anyone know if you can change the A/C temp to show C instead of F on say the 2013 Civic or Accord? I looked through the owner's manuals, but I could not find anything about it.
superchg2
Profile for superchg2
Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-17-2013 11:30
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I do mechanical maintenance and repairs at a large manufacturing plant here in KC.
A lot of our equipment comes from the U.S., but we also have German and Italian sourced equipment, as well. It gets a little interesting at times, deciding whether I need Metric or Standard tools/fasteners, and dimensions of parts are sometimes listed in millimeters or inches, or both.

A77
Profile for A77
Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-17-2013 12:45
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Jovian8 wrote:
How about our British friends that suffered
before they went to decimal currency? ;-)

Old system

Under the old currency of pounds, shillings and pence, the pound was made up of 240 pence (denoted by the letter d for Latin denarius and now referred to as "old pence"), with 12 pence in a shilling and 20 shillings (denoted by s for Latin solidus) in a pound.

Especially in an era before widespread computer use, this meant that monetary calculation, such as adding up sums of money, was more complicated than with a decimal currency, while tourists were also confused by coins such as the "half-crown" (worth two shillings and sixpence, or one eighth of a pound). The loss of value of the currency meant that the penny, with the same diameter as the U.S. half dollar, was of relatively slight value, while the farthing, which was worth one-quarter of an old penny, had been demonetised on 1 January 1961.



you forgot guineas....one pound and one shilling.....bonkers. I had to learn at age nine, when we moved from the US to UK how to do math with old money - multiplication even...pre-calculators of course... No idea now.
TonyEX
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-17-2013 13:21
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A77 wrote:
Jovian8 wrote:
How about our British friends that suffered
before they went to decimal currency? ;-)

Old system

Under the old currency of pounds, shillings and pence, the pound was made up of 240 pence (denoted by the letter d for Latin denarius and now referred to as "old pence"), with 12 pence in a shilling and 20 shillings (denoted by s for Latin solidus) in a pound.

Especially in an era before widespread computer use, this meant that monetary calculation, such as adding up sums of money, was more complicated than with a decimal currency, while tourists were also confused by coins such as the "half-crown" (worth two shillings and sixpence, or one eighth of a pound). The loss of value of the currency meant that the penny, with the same diameter as the U.S. half dollar, was of relatively slight value, while the farthing, which was worth one-quarter of an old penny, had been demonetised on 1 January 1961.



you forgot guineas....one pound and one shilling.....bonkers. I had to learn at age nine, when we moved from the US to UK how to do math with old money - multiplication even...pre-calculators of course... No idea now.



You gotta admit the English really had a way with measuring things.

volume: Gallons, quarts, ounces, Imperial gallons,
distance: Miles, Nautical miles, feet, inches
time: Years, Weeks, Hours, minutes, Seconds, forthnights
weight (not mass): Pounds, ounces
temperature: degrees in Fahrenheit
work: Horsepower, ft-lbs
charge: watt.

I mean, at least they use Coulombs, Henries, Farads and Curies in their physics.

I can understand why they must love -today- the fact that time did not go metric... it's goes right for their love of way out of the way measuring systems.

I'm surprised they even adopted the decimal system of counting. I can imagine they would have had some other system based on different values for each measurement type!
Nick GravesX
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Re: US to Metric System?    (Score: 1, Normal) 03-17-2013 14:31
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Grace141 wrote:
Jovian8 wrote:
There is no logic with human beings...
How about mixing the 2 systems in one spec:

Tire size 205/55x16 anyone ?



I have to say the current system for tires is much easier to understand than the old A78-13 type designations. Everyone knew F-series tires were wider than A-series tires but no one knew by how much. The system before that, the 6.00-15 system, seemed more sensible.

I've always assumed the metric section width for modern tires came from the radial tire being largely a French development with wheel diameters in inches being English. Credit to Ford for trying to change the industry with the TRX system in the '80s which unfortunately failed.

OK, I'm not sure where the S in the 155SR12 size for the 1st gen Civic came from.



Speed rating; S=160 Km/h, H=210, V=240, W=270 etc...


 
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