[home][rumors and news][model release matrix][dealer network][desktop calendar][exhaust notes][tov forums][links][search][sponsors][garage][login]

Tire Rack Upgrade Garage
 Search for a Dealer:
 Canadian Flag US Flag
 Honda Acura
 ZIP  
Acura NSX Production Model to Make World Debut at 2015 North American International Auto Show
More.......................
Honda FCV Concept to Make North American Debut at 2015 North American International Auto Show
More.......................
American Honda Sets New November Sales Records; Core Vehicles Lead the Way
More.......................
Acura Set to Launch More Powerful, Technologically Advanced and Luxuriously Equipped 2016 Acura ILX
More.......................
All-new 2016 Honda HR-V Crossover Makes North American Debut at 2014 Los Angeles Auto Show
More.......................
Honda FCV Concept Makes World Debut in Japan
More.......................
SPIED ON THE STREET! 2016(?) Honda Civic
More.......................
2016 ILX front end refresh image leaked
More.......................
Accord --> Re: Weird Starting
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: Turbocharged engines coming in 2015
Join Discussion......
TOV Asia --> Re: Surprising N-Box Slash debuts in Japan
Join Discussion......
Civic --> Re: Went from 2006 SI to 2012 Genesis Coupe 3.8 GT
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: pistonheads £100k garage, all-Honda choice ! Where's the wasabi?
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: It looks like Honda is going to go with Android in the future
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Almost a wreck at 75MPH!
Join Discussion......
Videos --> Re: HondaJet
Join Discussion......
Today's Reading Links --> Re: S660 detailed in Honda Magazine
Join Discussion......
Professional Motorsports --> Re: McLaren-Honda drivers - official news
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: 2015 Detroit(NAIAS) Auto Show
Join Discussion......
TLX --> Re: I was told the TLX transmission logic "learns" (new 0-60 times)
Join Discussion......
NSX --> Re: NSX new info!!!
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Honda Heritage Center opens in Marysville Ohio
Join Discussion......
General Talk --> Re: Ugly Stick Production Is Way Up
Join Discussion......
TOV First Drive: 2015 Acura TLX
Read Article....................
Photo Gallery: 2015 Acura TLX 2.4 P-AWS
Read Article....................
Photo Gallery: 2015 Acura TLX 3.5L SH-AWD
Read Article....................
TOV Photo Gallery: 2015 Honda Fit
Read Article....................
PR Photo Gallery: 2015 Honda Fit
Read Article....................
TOV Dyno Test: 2014 Accord Hybrid
Read Article....................

[fancy] [flat] [simple]
TOV Forums > 2nd Generation Acura RL > > Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed

Go to:

Viewing Threshold (What is this?)

Thread Page - 1 2 3 [4] 5 6
Author
  Post New Thread
MasterOfDaDomain
Profile for MasterOfDaDomain
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-30-2012 16:54
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Jeff - I have not seen the GS in person, but I find the Darth Vader look of the new GS quite eye catching, if not polarizing.

12" Nav screen, 5.6 sec range 0-60 for RWD/AWD/hybrid, hybrid rated 29/34 mpg, 14 plus cu ft trunk.

If the new RL can knock out the new GS, this temple will see a lot of bliss.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-30-2012 17:21
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
MasterOfDaDomain wrote:
Jeff - I have not seen the GS in person, but I find the Darth Vader look of the new GS quite eye catching, if not polarizing.

12" Nav screen, 5.6 sec range 0-60 for RWD/AWD/hybrid, hybrid rated 29/34 mpg, 14 plus cu ft trunk.

If the new RL can knock out the new GS, this temple will see a lot of bliss.



I think the Sport Hybrid RL will be in this same performance and efficiency range as those numbers you've quoted. Maybe even a little better on the 0-60.

not sure the 12" nav screen is a huge deal, IMHO. The 8" one currently used by Acura is plenty of dash real estate, especially in a sedan, but I would like to see them pack the thing with "retina" pixel density and create an exquisite UI.
Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-30-2012 18:57
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply

I seen the GS 450H at the New England Auto Show and although you couldnít sit in it, I must say it did look very bland. That is something I noticed even in reading C&D and Motor Trend, the body lines are very plain and outside of the ungainly grill there is nothing aggressive about the design. My brother law who owns BMW's (but is very open minded about other makes) commented that the GS looks like the ES and does not look like an upscale car! I must say though the interior is top notch and since this is the direction Lexus chose they will now be put up against A6, ES and 5 in terms of performance. The new MT has an article this month as a comparison, but I havenít read it yet. The GS is getting a lot of media attention, so time will tell. IMO the RL was always more luxurious and sporty than the GS, but people including the media never looked at it that way, because they were busy putting the RL up against the LS, outside of being the flagship for both companies the cars have nothing in common different price range, different demographic, different mission.
Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-30-2012 20:05
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Mikeydred wrote:
IMO the RL was always more luxurious and sporty than the GS


I know what I would take in 1996. And it wouldn't be the Acura.



NoSpinZone
Profile for NoSpinZone
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-30-2012 20:34
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
PoD,

Is that a joke? The Acura is hands down better looking than the... Corolla? Camry? Mazda Millenia?

Whatever that is... oh wait... it's a Lexus.
Power Of Dreams
Profile for Power Of Dreams
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2012 15:39
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
NoSpinZone wrote:
PoD,

Is that a joke? The Acura is hands down better looking than the... Corolla? Camry? Mazda Millenia?

Whatever that is... oh wait... it's a Lexus.



Mr O'Reilly, you have to be kidding.

The Acura in that picture was a limpwristed knockoff of an LS400 and an unworthy successor to the Legend.

Different strokes for different folks, you can have the worst Acura ever made while I'd take the sedan based off Supra mechanicals and styled by Giugiaro.
NoSpinZone
Profile for NoSpinZone
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2012 16:55
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
1) I am no fan of O'Reilly... I just don't like people that spin facts.

2) The Acura looks much better than the LS400. It is a great looking car. The pentagon grill looks great. This car also got great reviews.

3) The J series in this RL, along with the transmission, are extremely smooth and reliable, though a bit behind in terms of technology.

4) Few cars could be a worthy successor to the Legend. Certainly not that milquetoast Lexus garbage.

5) Supra mechanicals? I was under the impression that all Lexus' drove like a giant floating cloud...

6) Whoever styled this thing wasn't trying. It's one of the most blah cars I've ever seen.
NoSpinZone
Profile for NoSpinZone
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2012 17:15
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Why are we even arguing, in terms of styling, these are both Grandpa cars.

I just wouldn't touch a blazzay Lexus with a 40 foot pole.
according2kev
Profile for according2kev
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2012 20:43
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
The 1st gen RL was a very conservative design but the mmc made a big difference imo. After the update, I thought it was very nice looking car. In fact, I like it better than the current in some ways. I never could warm up to the first or second generation GS.
Power1Pete
Profile for Power1Pete
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2012 21:17
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
I hope the new RL will have the longitudinally mounted engine this time around. The layout will move the weight towards the back of the car.
JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2012 21:24
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Power Of Dreams wrote:
Mikeydred wrote:
IMO the RL was always more luxurious and sporty than the GS


I know what I would take in 1996. And it wouldn't be the Acura.






I had my issues with that generation of the RL, primarily the fact that it wasn't anywhere near the car it could have been, but my god, it looks like it's 10 years newer than that hideous GS in the lower pic. I had forgotten how homely that car was - by contrast the RL looks very classy and distinctive.
revvin
Profile for revvin
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2012 22:27
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
1993 vs. 2002 mmc
lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 01-31-2012 23:11
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
owequitit wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Jesse wrote:
It's all about perception. If the top trim RL performs spectacularly, is given rave reviews, and comes out on top of the comparison reviews; those who will buy the base RL trim will buy it because of the name, the RL - the car that performs spectacularly, has rave reviews, and is the top dog in comparison reviews. The top trim RL will serve as the halo model that will attract buyers; the base model will be the so-called bread-and-butter trim and it won't carry the RL image. Again it's the model where people will buy it because of the top trim. Well of course, Acura shouldn't be slacking with the base trim.

Also, Audi is sticking to an FWD platform and it is not hurting their brand image at all. Acura can stick to FWD set-up. I'm fine with it as long as they know how to package it properly like Audi.

My concern is Acura's statement that the RL will have a midsize exterior dimension but has a full-sized interior dimension. Are they again trying to hit two birds with one stone? If so, I fear the RL will end up stuck in the middle - a competitive model but doesn't excel in either the midsize or full-size categories. I do hope I'm wrong.

Anyway, we're all just speculating ATM. We'll see in the New York auto-show.




You have to understand LexusGS's posting history. He is essentially a Honda hater of the first order, but he appears to make himself sound objective, when really, if you read between the lines, they can do no right as far as he is concerned.

Short of a RWD V8 copy of everyone else with no originality, he won't like it, and even then he would do an immediate course reversal and bash it for being derivative and not doing skillset XYZ better than brand A,B, or C. We have seen it all before.

Case in point #1: He repeatedly claims Honda couldn't possibly compete with a V8 by offering a V6. But here, we have a V6 that puts out ~315HP/280 lb-ft, which is less than a V8, but when coupled with whatever hybrid system Honda is cooking up, it is right near 400HP and probably about equal torque to the boosted V8's in the segment. It will offer all of that right off idle since the J series and the electric motors will be in full swing by ~2,000RPM. But still he bashes because they can't offer "V8 performance." Granted, the car may be a bit heavier as a result of the hybrid gear, but with BMW and Benz V8 offerings pushing 4500lbs plus, even if Acura only maintains the weight of the current RL, they are still 1/4 of a ton lighter. Even the M56 is well over 4,000lbs in weight, so the CURRENT RL is a relative lightweight, and Honda claims that the new SH-AWD is lighter than the old mechanical one.

Case in point #2: Even though we have heard strong rumors of Acura pushing the wheelbase out, which indicates that it will have virtually nothing identical to the Accord he claims it is a copy of, he persists with is unsubstantiated claims of it being nothing more than an Accord. They could put it on an entirely different platform and he would find a way to claim it is an Accord. Truth is, we really don't know. It might be a heavily modified Accord platform, but A) that isn't all bad and B) depending on how modified it is, it may be an Accord in lineage only. If they are planning to go global with Acura soon, then it may have a different platform. Perhaps Honda has given Acura a platform more akin to Audi's so that they can differentiate themselves from Honda a bit, much as VW and Audi did, even though they still share major componentry.

A further case is that Acura said E-SH-AWD wouldn't be standard on the car. For all we know, the mechanical version will be standard. That would make it not be 2WD, but it would also not make eSH-AWD standard. But instead, he resorts to assuming that the only solution is FWD. Maybe it is, but we just don't know, so to claim it is a quasi-fact is just more of him being him.

Case in point #3 are the assertions of it being "too small" by moving the wheelbase out a few inches, even if they keep the same total envelope they could get quite a bit more space. They never said it was the same size though, they said SIMILAR. That means that in addition to the wheelbase stretch, if they added a few inches in length, an inch or two in width, and MAYBE some height, they would likely gain all of the space they need to be on par with the BMW and Merc interiors. As someone already illustrated, the RL is 7 cubic feet shy of having the interior capacity of a 7 series, despite its much smaller exterior. Therein lies the main benefit to a transverse powertrain layout versus a longitudinal one. If they put most of that 7 cubic feet in the rear, then this car will be as capacious and as roomy as the 7 and E/S without having to add a huge amount of length. No telling what that might do to the trunk space though.

Personally, I think a lot of people are getting disgusted with car size. I know a lot of BMW faithful aren't happy with it right now, and I don't see too many people complaining about the exterior size as long as the interior size is where it needs to be. It is unlikely that people are going to complain about the size of a car if it is 500-600lbs lighter, smaller and easier to maneuver, but still feels spacious and luxurious on the inside. The current RL was never railed for being too small outside, it was railed for having a back seat that was too small, which is why most of that expansion needs to go to the rear. I think they are trying to minimize exterior space to minimize weight, which should maximize MPG. A 4,000lb car with 400HP and 450-500 lb-ft of torque will certainly be adequate in the power department, and with IMA integrating seamlessly with the powerband of the J series, I think it will make for a very competitive powertrain, assuming it isn't too heavy. That combination will give it a very seamless, smooth, and effortless acceleration curve, which was another area the RL was criticized. Cabin materials, build quality and fabrication are already up there with Merc and Benz.

What I think will also potentially appeal about the RL, if it is competitive in other ways, will be the likely enhanced reliability/ownership costs of such a car, vs the Germans which tend to be very complex and are notorious for having issues after a short time. I am not totally confident Honda can pull that off though, because of trends as of late.



I thought we agreed to ignore each other, if you want to act like a little petulant girl and use my name in replying to other posts to try to attack me, make up things, and try to convince others I am someone I am not then have the balls to reply directly to me.

You complain, challenge, and try to attack me for being critical of Honda but in other threads you often say some of the same exact things I complain about that you have attacked me for saying, talk about a childish hypocrite and arguing just to argue. You are just wasting people's time when you do that. Stop attacking others and acting like you are the lone Honda authority here because you are not, you are just another person here with an often changing and conflicting opinion.

You are not even an Acura or luxury buyer, you like fwd small sporty 4 cylinders like civic Si's which means you are a Honda enthusiast and buyer. There is nothing wrong with that or what you prefer but stop acting like you know anything about the luxury market and attacking people who want what is required of a luxury make over what is suitable for a common lower end brand. Only someone who is completely clueless about luxury/performance brands and cars would attack a poster wanting a luxury brand to offer rwd, a V8, and a powerplant with well over 305hp. If you don't like rwd, flagships, V8s, high hp, luxury, etc then stick to buying and liking more mainstream brand like Honda's, Acura is supposed to be a upmarket luxury brand and you are clearly not interested in those types of brands or cars since you criticize them so much.

Please go on other cars sites, especially other Acura sites that are talking about the rumors/info for the new RL. You will see you are in the minority in your way of thinking and most agree with me that a new RL heavily resembling the current one and now a Hyundai and Buick with eSHAWD not being standard and possibly a downmarket lower hp fwd version being offered is not exactly garnering glowing enthusiasm or positive remarks at all. I am sure you consider all the other people who are critical must be all secret Honda haters and only you know what is best for Acura.

I will wait and see what they actually do and hope I am wrong in my predictions because I AM NOT A HONDA HATER like you falsely try to paint me as. Unfortunately from what I have read I am not having a good feeling about what they may do. I was hoping the RL would be a breakthrough car for Acura that would shut most critics up so I won't have to keep defending Acura which gets tiring since Ito has been CEO and making horrible decisions.



Here I am replying to you. I have been mostly ignoring you for years, but eventually, some points are worth addressing. I don't want Honda to mistakenly confuse that the only way forward is by copying everyone else, because over the last 10 years or so of the companies operation, I have stood by while people tell them it is so, and have watched them destroy the product that everyone loved (and consequently made them successful) because they drove more and more toward being less like Honda and more like everyone else. While I am not delusional in thinking VTEC.net is the epicenter of the universe, I do know that they monitor the site heavily for feedback. Thus, I like to make sure that propaganda doesn't always go without an opposing viewpoint.

1) I haven't been at all petulant. What I said about you is 100% true. You have had absolutely nothing nice to say about Acura in roughly the 10+ years I have been here. Meanwhile, you spew your incessant and never-ending religious mantra of V8, V8, V8. There is a difference between criticizing constructively and what it is you do. Your failure to see that is not my problem.

2) Funny that you don't like being "attacked" (I was actually observing) but then you attack me. You have absolutely no idea what I aspire to, nor do you have a clue what I like. I DO like small 4 banger cars like the Si. They are fun, they are lithe and they are full of character at a cheap price. However, I also like hotrods, muscle cars, antique cars, trucks, bikes, and luxury cars. Just because I currently own an Si doesn't mean I have zero exposure to anything else, or zero desire to own anything else.

You on the other hand ceaselessly setup a list of values that Honda will not meet and then use that as a basis to construct an argument against Acura to prove "objectively" how they can't succeed. It borders on the same level as AGW propagandists who setup hypothesis criteria and then collect data to prove the hypothesis, rather than letting the data objectively support or refute the hypothesis. But since you set up a list of criteria that you knew Honda wouldn't meet ahead of time, you can tell yourself you are objective.

We have covered all of this before:

Honda's IMA system is very likely to provide performance on par with ANY V8 in class (especially when you figure in the likely weight difference), but somehow, it isn't good enough. The whole purpose that you repeatedly support for a V8 is total acceleration, and linear/smooth power delivery. If this powertrain meets that goal, then how is it not worthy? Solely because you don't like the "H" word? Also, how do you explain everyone else's retreat away from V8's in all but the highest end models? I mentioned that up to 2-3 years ago, and there is plenty of evidence of it. Audi is replacing their "normal" V8 models with the supercharged V6, BMW is replacing V12 with turbo V8's, V8's with turbo I6's and I6's with turbo fours. How else do you explain a FOUR BANGER 5 series? Merc has followed the plan a little less, but in a few years that may be different. Where is Lexus' GS V8? The only V8 cars I can think of in the last 2 years has been the Equus and the M56. Cadillac is downsizing engines too. Personally, I would probably prefer the boosted route, but honestly, I don't think most people will care either way if the power delivery and NVH are there.

The RL is slightly too small now, but 7 cubic feet is not an insurmountable volume to add. If they stretch the car to have interior accomodations on par with the 7 series/S class, then how has this car failed size wise? P.S. The current RL is nearly 8" shorter than the 7 and almost a full foot shorter than the A8L, so it isn't like they don't have a bit of room to move up.

If they completely alter the "Accord platform" that you are so sure it uses, to the point of it being completely different, with a longer wheel base, different length and maybe even different proportions (if rumors of a Genesis like stance are to be believed), then how has this car failed by being "just another Accord?" Why do you not complain about BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Audi all platform sharing amongst their models? Is it because you suspect it might be FWD based? If so, then why do you not slander Audi (whose brand cache is on a rapid upward trajectory) for having ALL FWD based platforms? Why are they not continually slandered for having a rebadged Golf, a FWD entry level car, and a midsize car sharing the same platform, which is essentially what Acura is? Why do you not continually slander them for having a ~55-60% front weight biased "flagship" with the engine sitting entirely ahead of the axle centerline that has to rely on AWD to make it competitive? Sounds a lot like the RL from a design standpoint, but somehow Acura sucks...

You pride yourself on being objective and criticizing Acura, but the problem isn't that you are unhappy with Acura, it is more that you are not nearly as sly about your bias as you believe yourself to be. You continually slander Acura for doing everything wrong, but don't leverage the same distaste toward others, when appropriate.

Frankly, Acura has some problems, mainly in styling and packaging size, but most of the requirements for a "luxury" car are not at fault for their issues. Certainly, having FWD based platforms is not the sole issue as Audi doesn't suffer the same problem, despite having the same platform philosophy.

What luxury buyers actually want is seamless performance, syrabitic features, unquestionable build quality and brand snobbery. Unfortunately for ALL of the Japanese lux companies, it is that last requirement that is hard to come by, as not one of them has actually achieved it (Lexus is closest, but is still not considered on the same level as BMW, MERC and Audi).

I agree that Acura has to improve in a lot of ways, most of which they have already confirmed. We have significantly more power, significantly more interior space, most likely better proportions (the main thing IMO that was "unluxury" about the appearance of the RL), hopefully better MPG etc, and you are already attempting to build a set of criteria against which to rail them yet again, when the car hasn't even debuted yet.



That is typical of you to label others peoples opinions as "propaganda" and to think you have to set everything straight, a little delusional aren't you.

For your information Honda has pretty much done the exact opposite of what most people/journalists have wanted them to do in the past 10 years by not building sports cars, not building a rwd 3 series fighter, not building a rwd flagship, not going upmarket, not offering coupes, not building type R models, not building DSGs, not offering V8s, V10s, or FI 6 cylinders so I don't know what you feel you have to set straight or why you feel they have "copied" others. Honda has done mostly what enthusiasts/journalists have complained about which is base everything on Accords, only offer Honda based V6s and 4 cylinders(aside from the RDX engine), stick with 5 speed autos for too long, and focus too much on SUVs, etc. Basing everything on Accords and civics is not doing things their own way, it is really just not trying and doing what is the cheapest and easiest for them.

1)More "facts" you are making up with the 10+ years, I have not been on this site for 10+ years or anywhere close, I joined about 4 years ago. I have had plenty of good things to say about Honda and Acura and their models over the years so stop lying to try to prove your false point. Not all my posts are V8 V8 rwd rwd.

I have argued on here before that the 4th TL did not go on a rwd platform nor did it need a V8 before the 4th gen was revealed and I mostly stand by it now although the styling issues of making a bigger TL on a Accord platform are clearly evident with the front overhangs, etc. I don't want every Acura model to be rwd or offer a V8, I would even say that would be a bad idea since Acura has had success with fwd TLs and TSXs but I believe models above the TL need to go on rwd platforms now to deal with increases in hp, if they are sticking to a fwd platform then a RL or Legend should have the AWD system standard and not go more downmarket.

The reason I push Acura so hard on making a rwd sports sedan or coupe is because I think only Acura is really the only company that could make a rwd sports sedan better then a 3 series or 5 series considering how competitive the 3rd Gen TL/TL-S was and what they have done with the NSX and S2000.

2)I am not really bothered if I get attacked, what bothers me is when you make things up about me, try to paint me as something else(honda hater) and spread false information. Don't lump me in with AGW propagandists or any greenie liberal group,(more of you trying to spread false info) I don't buy into their agenda, gov funded "research", or results.

Most of my critical posts are mainly aimed at Ito's leadership and poor decisions like killing(not pushing it back) the completed V10ASC, rwd sedan, V8s, and V10s and pushing this "smart" "responsible" environmentally conscious" nonsense instead for Acura.

My criteria for Acura sedans, coupes, and sports cars is not at all unrealistic or over the top.

If the new 3 motor hybrid system provides the power and performance of a modern V8 and can somehow sustain that power/performance even with prolonged enthusiastic driving then I won't complain much although I still feel a V8 option should be available for a flagship. I have warmed to the 3 motor powerplant since they announced it will put out around 400hp(we will see if that is true) in the sedan.

As far as some companies replacing V8s that is due to strict gov mandates that I don't support. Only Audi and Lexus have done it with the A6 and GS, those two cars were never big sellers in America and the take on the V8s was very small since the 6 cylinders were just as quick or quicker, performance versions of those cars may still offer V8s. The companies that are downsizing engines are at least making the smaller FI engines perform as good or better then the bigger engines they are replacing. Nobody is giving up on rwd or V8s in flagship sedans, coupes, sports cars though.

I don't care if companies share platforms, I encourage it, I don't care if Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, platform share with fwd sedans but I do have a problem when Acura shares everything with a Honda Accord and now a honda civic.



"You pride yourself on being objective and criticizing Acura, but the problem isn't that you are unhappy with Acura, it is more that you are not nearly as sly about your bias as you believe yourself to be. You continually slander Acura for doing everything wrong, but don't leverage the same distaste toward others, when appropriate."

These are just more false accusations and conclusions about me that you have made up in your head and are trying to convince others to believe. I complain about other brands and cars all the time, since this is a Honda-Acura site and forum, call me crazy but I will tend to focus on Honda/Acura when I post here.

You can keep attacking people who want more from Acura then all fwd Accord and civic based cars and nothing above a Honda based V6 engine option all you want but you are simply in the minority of what even hardcore Acura fans want . It has been pretty universal that buyers and journalists have said Acura should have a rwd car with a V8 option at the top of their sedan lineup if they want to be taken seriously for a long time.

Name me one luxury company that has been successful selling fwd based v6 luxury/performance cars based on common family sedans. Can you honestly say based by sales of the current RL that Acura has been very successful in this class selling the car the way it is.
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2012 00:42
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
lexusgs wrote:
Name me one luxury company that has been successful selling fwd based v6 luxury/performance cars based on common family sedans. Can you honestly say based by sales of the current RL that Acura has been very successful in this class selling the car the way it is.


Actually Acura had been VERY successful selling just those types of vehicles, until it released the dreaded Beaked TL!! :)
NoSpinZone
Profile for NoSpinZone
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2012 08:03
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
By using a FWD mid-size sedan frame, Acura can provide very affordable luxury to those that don't care about RWD... especially not that they have what seems to be the best application of hybrid technology yet, turning what used to be the worst gas guzzlers in the business (AWD Luxury sedans) into simultaneously more sporting AND MUCH more efficient than their predecessors and competition.

I'm the first person that will scoff at hybrids, but I really think they've got something here with this eSHAWD... though I'm a bit worried about unspring weight... has this been discussed?
Potenza
Profile for Potenza
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2012 12:32
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
NoSpinZone wrote:
I'm the first person that will scoff at hybrids, but I really think they've got something here with this eSHAWD... though I'm a bit worried about unspring weight... has this been discussed?
There's no additional unsprung weight. The two rear electric motors will be housed in the AWD differential. That differential is also said to weigh less than the traditional SH-AWD diff. But there are no motors actually out in the wheels or anything like that.
NoSpinZone
Profile for NoSpinZone
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-01-2012 18:38
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Potenza,

Well call me the potential customer of my first not-old-as-shit car a few years into the production of whatever car falls between the TSX and TL in size.

Based on what I know, this is the best possible application of hybrid-luxury and is 100% old-school Honda to pull something off like this instead of resorting to dedciated RWD/AWD platforms w/ V8's.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-03-2012 23:46
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
lexusgs wrote:
owequitit wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Jesse wrote:
It's all about perception. If the top trim RL performs spectacularly, is given rave reviews, and comes out on top of the comparison reviews; those who will buy the base RL trim will buy it because of the name, the RL - the car that performs spectacularly, has rave reviews, and is the top dog in comparison reviews. The top trim RL will serve as the halo model that will attract buyers; the base model will be the so-called bread-and-butter trim and it won't carry the RL image. Again it's the model where people will buy it because of the top trim. Well of course, Acura shouldn't be slacking with the base trim.

Also, Audi is sticking to an FWD platform and it is not hurting their brand image at all. Acura can stick to FWD set-up. I'm fine with it as long as they know how to package it properly like Audi.

My concern is Acura's statement that the RL will have a midsize exterior dimension but has a full-sized interior dimension. Are they again trying to hit two birds with one stone? If so, I fear the RL will end up stuck in the middle - a competitive model but doesn't excel in either the midsize or full-size categories. I do hope I'm wrong.

Anyway, we're all just speculating ATM. We'll see in the New York auto-show.




You have to understand LexusGS's posting history. He is essentially a Honda hater of the first order, but he appears to make himself sound objective, when really, if you read between the lines, they can do no right as far as he is concerned.

Short of a RWD V8 copy of everyone else with no originality, he won't like it, and even then he would do an immediate course reversal and bash it for being derivative and not doing skillset XYZ better than brand A,B, or C. We have seen it all before.

Case in point #1: He repeatedly claims Honda couldn't possibly compete with a V8 by offering a V6. But here, we have a V6 that puts out ~315HP/280 lb-ft, which is less than a V8, but when coupled with whatever hybrid system Honda is cooking up, it is right near 400HP and probably about equal torque to the boosted V8's in the segment. It will offer all of that right off idle since the J series and the electric motors will be in full swing by ~2,000RPM. But still he bashes because they can't offer "V8 performance." Granted, the car may be a bit heavier as a result of the hybrid gear, but with BMW and Benz V8 offerings pushing 4500lbs plus, even if Acura only maintains the weight of the current RL, they are still 1/4 of a ton lighter. Even the M56 is well over 4,000lbs in weight, so the CURRENT RL is a relative lightweight, and Honda claims that the new SH-AWD is lighter than the old mechanical one.

Case in point #2: Even though we have heard strong rumors of Acura pushing the wheelbase out, which indicates that it will have virtually nothing identical to the Accord he claims it is a copy of, he persists with is unsubstantiated claims of it being nothing more than an Accord. They could put it on an entirely different platform and he would find a way to claim it is an Accord. Truth is, we really don't know. It might be a heavily modified Accord platform, but A) that isn't all bad and B) depending on how modified it is, it may be an Accord in lineage only. If they are planning to go global with Acura soon, then it may have a different platform. Perhaps Honda has given Acura a platform more akin to Audi's so that they can differentiate themselves from Honda a bit, much as VW and Audi did, even though they still share major componentry.

A further case is that Acura said E-SH-AWD wouldn't be standard on the car. For all we know, the mechanical version will be standard. That would make it not be 2WD, but it would also not make eSH-AWD standard. But instead, he resorts to assuming that the only solution is FWD. Maybe it is, but we just don't know, so to claim it is a quasi-fact is just more of him being him.

Case in point #3 are the assertions of it being "too small" by moving the wheelbase out a few inches, even if they keep the same total envelope they could get quite a bit more space. They never said it was the same size though, they said SIMILAR. That means that in addition to the wheelbase stretch, if they added a few inches in length, an inch or two in width, and MAYBE some height, they would likely gain all of the space they need to be on par with the BMW and Merc interiors. As someone already illustrated, the RL is 7 cubic feet shy of having the interior capacity of a 7 series, despite its much smaller exterior. Therein lies the main benefit to a transverse powertrain layout versus a longitudinal one. If they put most of that 7 cubic feet in the rear, then this car will be as capacious and as roomy as the 7 and E/S without having to add a huge amount of length. No telling what that might do to the trunk space though.

Personally, I think a lot of people are getting disgusted with car size. I know a lot of BMW faithful aren't happy with it right now, and I don't see too many people complaining about the exterior size as long as the interior size is where it needs to be. It is unlikely that people are going to complain about the size of a car if it is 500-600lbs lighter, smaller and easier to maneuver, but still feels spacious and luxurious on the inside. The current RL was never railed for being too small outside, it was railed for having a back seat that was too small, which is why most of that expansion needs to go to the rear. I think they are trying to minimize exterior space to minimize weight, which should maximize MPG. A 4,000lb car with 400HP and 450-500 lb-ft of torque will certainly be adequate in the power department, and with IMA integrating seamlessly with the powerband of the J series, I think it will make for a very competitive powertrain, assuming it isn't too heavy. That combination will give it a very seamless, smooth, and effortless acceleration curve, which was another area the RL was criticized. Cabin materials, build quality and fabrication are already up there with Merc and Benz.

What I think will also potentially appeal about the RL, if it is competitive in other ways, will be the likely enhanced reliability/ownership costs of such a car, vs the Germans which tend to be very complex and are notorious for having issues after a short time. I am not totally confident Honda can pull that off though, because of trends as of late.



I thought we agreed to ignore each other, if you want to act like a little petulant girl and use my name in replying to other posts to try to attack me, make up things, and try to convince others I am someone I am not then have the balls to reply directly to me.

You complain, challenge, and try to attack me for being critical of Honda but in other threads you often say some of the same exact things I complain about that you have attacked me for saying, talk about a childish hypocrite and arguing just to argue. You are just wasting people's time when you do that. Stop attacking others and acting like you are the lone Honda authority here because you are not, you are just another person here with an often changing and conflicting opinion.

You are not even an Acura or luxury buyer, you like fwd small sporty 4 cylinders like civic Si's which means you are a Honda enthusiast and buyer. There is nothing wrong with that or what you prefer but stop acting like you know anything about the luxury market and attacking people who want what is required of a luxury make over what is suitable for a common lower end brand. Only someone who is completely clueless about luxury/performance brands and cars would attack a poster wanting a luxury brand to offer rwd, a V8, and a powerplant with well over 305hp. If you don't like rwd, flagships, V8s, high hp, luxury, etc then stick to buying and liking more mainstream brand like Honda's, Acura is supposed to be a upmarket luxury brand and you are clearly not interested in those types of brands or cars since you criticize them so much.

Please go on other cars sites, especially other Acura sites that are talking about the rumors/info for the new RL. You will see you are in the minority in your way of thinking and most agree with me that a new RL heavily resembling the current one and now a Hyundai and Buick with eSHAWD not being standard and possibly a downmarket lower hp fwd version being offered is not exactly garnering glowing enthusiasm or positive remarks at all. I am sure you consider all the other people who are critical must be all secret Honda haters and only you know what is best for Acura.

I will wait and see what they actually do and hope I am wrong in my predictions because I AM NOT A HONDA HATER like you falsely try to paint me as. Unfortunately from what I have read I am not having a good feeling about what they may do. I was hoping the RL would be a breakthrough car for Acura that would shut most critics up so I won't have to keep defending Acura which gets tiring since Ito has been CEO and making horrible decisions.



Here I am replying to you. I have been mostly ignoring you for years, but eventually, some points are worth addressing. I don't want Honda to mistakenly confuse that the only way forward is by copying everyone else, because over the last 10 years or so of the companies operation, I have stood by while people tell them it is so, and have watched them destroy the product that everyone loved (and consequently made them successful) because they drove more and more toward being less like Honda and more like everyone else. While I am not delusional in thinking VTEC.net is the epicenter of the universe, I do know that they monitor the site heavily for feedback. Thus, I like to make sure that propaganda doesn't always go without an opposing viewpoint.

1) I haven't been at all petulant. What I said about you is 100% true. You have had absolutely nothing nice to say about Acura in roughly the 10+ years I have been here. Meanwhile, you spew your incessant and never-ending religious mantra of V8, V8, V8. There is a difference between criticizing constructively and what it is you do. Your failure to see that is not my problem.

2) Funny that you don't like being "attacked" (I was actually observing) but then you attack me. You have absolutely no idea what I aspire to, nor do you have a clue what I like. I DO like small 4 banger cars like the Si. They are fun, they are lithe and they are full of character at a cheap price. However, I also like hotrods, muscle cars, antique cars, trucks, bikes, and luxury cars. Just because I currently own an Si doesn't mean I have zero exposure to anything else, or zero desire to own anything else.

You on the other hand ceaselessly setup a list of values that Honda will not meet and then use that as a basis to construct an argument against Acura to prove "objectively" how they can't succeed. It borders on the same level as AGW propagandists who setup hypothesis criteria and then collect data to prove the hypothesis, rather than letting the data objectively support or refute the hypothesis. But since you set up a list of criteria that you knew Honda wouldn't meet ahead of time, you can tell yourself you are objective.

We have covered all of this before:

Honda's IMA system is very likely to provide performance on par with ANY V8 in class (especially when you figure in the likely weight difference), but somehow, it isn't good enough. The whole purpose that you repeatedly support for a V8 is total acceleration, and linear/smooth power delivery. If this powertrain meets that goal, then how is it not worthy? Solely because you don't like the "H" word? Also, how do you explain everyone else's retreat away from V8's in all but the highest end models? I mentioned that up to 2-3 years ago, and there is plenty of evidence of it. Audi is replacing their "normal" V8 models with the supercharged V6, BMW is replacing V12 with turbo V8's, V8's with turbo I6's and I6's with turbo fours. How else do you explain a FOUR BANGER 5 series? Merc has followed the plan a little less, but in a few years that may be different. Where is Lexus' GS V8? The only V8 cars I can think of in the last 2 years has been the Equus and the M56. Cadillac is downsizing engines too. Personally, I would probably prefer the boosted route, but honestly, I don't think most people will care either way if the power delivery and NVH are there.

The RL is slightly too small now, but 7 cubic feet is not an insurmountable volume to add. If they stretch the car to have interior accomodations on par with the 7 series/S class, then how has this car failed size wise? P.S. The current RL is nearly 8" shorter than the 7 and almost a full foot shorter than the A8L, so it isn't like they don't have a bit of room to move up.

If they completely alter the "Accord platform" that you are so sure it uses, to the point of it being completely different, with a longer wheel base, different length and maybe even different proportions (if rumors of a Genesis like stance are to be believed), then how has this car failed by being "just another Accord?" Why do you not complain about BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Audi all platform sharing amongst their models? Is it because you suspect it might be FWD based? If so, then why do you not slander Audi (whose brand cache is on a rapid upward trajectory) for having ALL FWD based platforms? Why are they not continually slandered for having a rebadged Golf, a FWD entry level car, and a midsize car sharing the same platform, which is essentially what Acura is? Why do you not continually slander them for having a ~55-60% front weight biased "flagship" with the engine sitting entirely ahead of the axle centerline that has to rely on AWD to make it competitive? Sounds a lot like the RL from a design standpoint, but somehow Acura sucks...

You pride yourself on being objective and criticizing Acura, but the problem isn't that you are unhappy with Acura, it is more that you are not nearly as sly about your bias as you believe yourself to be. You continually slander Acura for doing everything wrong, but don't leverage the same distaste toward others, when appropriate.

Frankly, Acura has some problems, mainly in styling and packaging size, but most of the requirements for a "luxury" car are not at fault for their issues. Certainly, having FWD based platforms is not the sole issue as Audi doesn't suffer the same problem, despite having the same platform philosophy.

What luxury buyers actually want is seamless performance, syrabitic features, unquestionable build quality and brand snobbery. Unfortunately for ALL of the Japanese lux companies, it is that last requirement that is hard to come by, as not one of them has actually achieved it (Lexus is closest, but is still not considered on the same level as BMW, MERC and Audi).

I agree that Acura has to improve in a lot of ways, most of which they have already confirmed. We have significantly more power, significantly more interior space, most likely better proportions (the main thing IMO that was "unluxury" about the appearance of the RL), hopefully better MPG etc, and you are already attempting to build a set of criteria against which to rail them yet again, when the car hasn't even debuted yet.



That is typical of you to label others peoples opinions as "propaganda" and to think you have to set everything straight, a little delusional aren't you.

For your information Honda has pretty much done the exact opposite of what most people/journalists have wanted them to do in the past 10 years by not building sports cars, not building a rwd 3 series fighter, not building a rwd flagship, not going upmarket, not offering coupes, not building type R models, not building DSGs, not offering V8s, V10s, or FI 6 cylinders so I don't know what you feel you have to set straight or why you feel they have "copied" others. Honda has done mostly what enthusiasts/journalists have complained about which is base everything on Accords, only offer Honda based V6s and 4 cylinders(aside from the RDX engine), stick with 5 speed autos for too long, and focus too much on SUVs, etc. Basing everything on Accords and civics is not doing things their own way, it is really just not trying and doing what is the cheapest and easiest for them.

1)More "facts" you are making up with the 10+ years, I have not been on this site for 10+ years or anywhere close, I joined about 4 years ago. I have had plenty of good things to say about Honda and Acura and their models over the years so stop lying to try to prove your false point. Not all my posts are V8 V8 rwd rwd.

I have argued on here before that the 4th TL did not go on a rwd platform nor did it need a V8 before the 4th gen was revealed and I mostly stand by it now although the styling issues of making a bigger TL on a Accord platform are clearly evident with the front overhangs, etc. I don't want every Acura model to be rwd or offer a V8, I would even say that would be a bad idea since Acura has had success with fwd TLs and TSXs but I believe models above the TL need to go on rwd platforms now to deal with increases in hp, if they are sticking to a fwd platform then a RL or Legend should have the AWD system standard and not go more downmarket.

The reason I push Acura so hard on making a rwd sports sedan or coupe is because I think only Acura is really the only company that could make a rwd sports sedan better then a 3 series or 5 series considering how competitive the 3rd Gen TL/TL-S was and what they have done with the NSX and S2000.

2)I am not really bothered if I get attacked, what bothers me is when you make things up about me, try to paint me as something else(honda hater) and spread false information. Don't lump me in with AGW propagandists or any greenie liberal group,(more of you trying to spread false info) I don't buy into their agenda, gov funded "research", or results.

Most of my critical posts are mainly aimed at Ito's leadership and poor decisions like killing(not pushing it back) the completed V10ASC, rwd sedan, V8s, and V10s and pushing this "smart" "responsible" environmentally conscious" nonsense instead for Acura.

My criteria for Acura sedans, coupes, and sports cars is not at all unrealistic or over the top.

If the new 3 motor hybrid system provides the power and performance of a modern V8 and can somehow sustain that power/performance even with prolonged enthusiastic driving then I won't complain much although I still feel a V8 option should be available for a flagship. I have warmed to the 3 motor powerplant since they announced it will put out around 400hp(we will see if that is true) in the sedan.

As far as some companies replacing V8s that is due to strict gov mandates that I don't support. Only Audi and Lexus have done it with the A6 and GS, those two cars were never big sellers in America and the take on the V8s was very small since the 6 cylinders were just as quick or quicker, performance versions of those cars may still offer V8s. The companies that are downsizing engines are at least making the smaller FI engines perform as good or better then the bigger engines they are replacing. Nobody is giving up on rwd or V8s in flagship sedans, coupes, sports cars though.

I don't care if companies share platforms, I encourage it, I don't care if Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, platform share with fwd sedans but I do have a problem when Acura shares everything with a Honda Accord and now a honda civic.



"You pride yourself on being objective and criticizing Acura, but the problem isn't that you are unhappy with Acura, it is more that you are not nearly as sly about your bias as you believe yourself to be. You continually slander Acura for doing everything wrong, but don't leverage the same distaste toward others, when appropriate."

These are just more false accusations and conclusions about me that you have made up in your head and are trying to convince others to believe. I complain about other brands and cars all the time, since this is a Honda-Acura site and forum, call me crazy but I will tend to focus on Honda/Acura when I post here.

You can keep attacking people who want more from Acura then all fwd Accord and civic based cars and nothing above a Honda based V6 engine option all you want but you are simply in the minority of what even hardcore Acura fans want . It has been pretty universal that buyers and journalists have said Acura should have a rwd car with a V8 option at the top of their sedan lineup if they want to be taken seriously for a long time.

Name me one luxury company that has been successful selling fwd based v6 luxury/performance cars based on common family sedans. Can you honestly say based by sales of the current RL that Acura has been very successful in this class selling the car the way it is.



Your position was labeled as "propaganda" because you ceaselessly and tirelessly push the mantra that there is no way forward except to be like Infiniti, et. al. Your position is also propaganda because you have a hidden agenda that you try to hide in a pseudo-rational, thinly veiled wrapper of openmindedness, when really you have nothing nice to say abotu Acura, the way they do business or the prodcut the release. I can literally pull ANY sampling of 90-95% of your posts and prove my point.

You follow the same tired charade everytime. First, you leverage false hope about Acura's future. Then you talk about something from the "good old days" like the 2nd gen Legend, and then you follow it up with a not so veiled, lopsided flogging for being a failure of human beings, inclusive of how nothing other than a V8 can compete with everything else. Then, when called out on realities like engine downsizing, and other FWD platforms that sell well and are perceived well, you ignore them and start the attacking to hide the questions that you can't answer without tipping your hand.

1) You want another FWD based brand that is successful despite plebian car undercarriage? Audi. Yup. Brought it up again. Why deny the fact that the car that single-handedly saved Audi from oblivion (the first A4) was a direct brother to the Passat, a plebian, nose heavy FWD based car with optional AWD. In fact, until the current generation of Passat, the two were kissing cousins. The A4 was smaller, but the "plank" was the same. IIRC, the A6 was also heavily based on the Passat, and yet, neither one had style challenges nor perception challenges. You continually ignore that, but whatever.

2) How do you explain that the Lexus ES300 has continually outsold every single RWD Lexus combined and outsold most of the V8 models by several to one? How has Lexus not suffered brand image tarnish by having their best selling model based on a Camry, which is in no way structurally superior to an Accord?

The problem is that you simply don't want to give Acura credit where credit is due. Once you actually leverage open-minded discussion, I will happily stop accusing you of propaganda. As long as what you are shoveling is BS, then I am going to call it BS.

You complained that Acura can't compete with FWD based cars. Yet, they feature AWD, and AUDI manages to compete just fine with FWD based, AWD cars. Clearly that can't be the problem. Also contrary to your BS, Acura cleanly outsold Cadillac and Infiniti with FWD based cars until they put the beak on the TL and TSX. That lends further weight against the FWD component of your arguement.

Clearly, a V8 is NOT required below $60K because not only are most sales below that price point NOT V8 powered (be it BMW, Merc, Infiniti, Hyundai, Lexus, Cadillac etc), but nearly ALL of the companies are downsizing to sixes and fours. Considering the trend encompasses the entire segment, that pretty much shoots your "more V8" theory in the foot. Some V8 models are being cancelled altogether, or aren't even available below $60K; with no more A6 V8, no 5 series V8 (short of M5 which is $90K), no V8 GS, and no V8 CTS short of the V. Acura would be much more inline with a powerful V6 engine in the RL...oh wait...

Second, the mantra of a V6 can't compete is total bullshit in the face of the ~400HP output of the RL's powertrain, and the likely ~400 lb-ft right off idle that it will probably have when coupled with the IMA. That is on par with ANY V8 in class, and it will likely make it very low in the rev range, which will lend itself perfectly to lazy, effortless acceleration. If Acura can hold the line on weight, with the car coming in right around 4,000lbs, then even better, because even the RWD M56 will weigh that much (RWD 550i is nearly 400lbs more). If the power to weight ratio is similar, it isn't going to matter much how many cylinders it has. With the NVH characteristics of Honda's V6 engines, I would welcome it in such a car, because despite its different engine note, it is extremely smooth and refined. Furthermore, should the prospective customer order up AWD, then the competitors are going to start piling on weight as well. People like you always love to shove power outputs around, but never quite stop to consider the overall picture. You have output and torque, but you also have gearing, and weight. The reason cars like the NSX were able to punch above their weight class, is that they considered the entire system of performance, and not just weight. It is also how lighter cars like the NSX came up with not only better total acceleration, but superior balance and dynamics versus their contemporary peers. If you want all out power at the expense of everything else, than a Honda/Acura was never the car for you. We all know that, but you refuse to admit it. What most of us repeat Honda/Acura buyers liked was the ability of Honda to provide competitive performance with less total power because they leveraged weight, gearing, and intelligent design rather than just throwing power at the problem, hoping it would go away. Unfortunately, that is a major part of the system that lead to our current choices of super large, overweight, bloated cars that are nowhere near as fun to drive as their older, lighter, and slower predecessors. Maximum speed limit in my state is 75MPH. Even the current RL can get there in ~10 seconds, so really, I would trade a more enjoyable chassis for outright dick-swinging rights anyday of the year, because it will be mor enjoyable the other 364 days a year.

Acura's issue is a very plain and simple mix of not having a cohesive brand identity, and styling.


P.S. I look forward to your incessant critcism of Acura next week with the debut of the actual car. Not only will it be FWD and underpowered, and less than impressive, but I am sure you will be able to point to "product X" that is wholly superior in every way. I am also sure you will be able to illustrate how RL exhibit A is not as competitive as glory Acura B and so on.
lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-06-2012 22:16
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
owequitit wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
owequitit wrote:
lexusgs wrote:
owequitit wrote:
Jesse wrote:
It's all about perception. If the top trim RL performs spectacularly, is given rave reviews, and comes out on top of the comparison reviews; those who will buy the base RL trim will buy it because of the name, the RL - the car that performs spectacularly, has rave reviews, and is the top dog in comparison reviews. The top trim RL will serve as the halo model that will attract buyers; the base model will be the so-called bread-and-butter trim and it won't carry the RL image. Again it's the model where people will buy it because of the top trim. Well of course, Acura shouldn't be slacking with the base trim.

Also, Audi is sticking to an FWD platform and it is not hurting their brand image at all. Acura can stick to FWD set-up. I'm fine with it as long as they know how to package it properly like Audi.

My concern is Acura's statement that the RL will have a midsize exterior dimension but has a full-sized interior dimension. Are they again trying to hit two birds with one stone? If so, I fear the RL will end up stuck in the middle - a competitive model but doesn't excel in either the midsize or full-size categories. I do hope I'm wrong.

Anyway, we're all just speculating ATM. We'll see in the New York auto-show.




You have to understand LexusGS's posting history. He is essentially a Honda hater of the first order, but he appears to make himself sound objective, when really, if you read between the lines, they can do no right as far as he is concerned.

Short of a RWD V8 copy of everyone else with no originality, he won't like it, and even then he would do an immediate course reversal and bash it for being derivative and not doing skillset XYZ better than brand A,B, or C. We have seen it all before.

Case in point #1: He repeatedly claims Honda couldn't possibly compete with a V8 by offering a V6. But here, we have a V6 that puts out ~315HP/280 lb-ft, which is less than a V8, but when coupled with whatever hybrid system Honda is cooking up, it is right near 400HP and probably about equal torque to the boosted V8's in the segment. It will offer all of that right off idle since the J series and the electric motors will be in full swing by ~2,000RPM. But still he bashes because they can't offer "V8 performance." Granted, the car may be a bit heavier as a result of the hybrid gear, but with BMW and Benz V8 offerings pushing 4500lbs plus, even if Acura only maintains the weight of the current RL, they are still 1/4 of a ton lighter. Even the M56 is well over 4,000lbs in weight, so the CURRENT RL is a relative lightweight, and Honda claims that the new SH-AWD is lighter than the old mechanical one.

Case in point #2: Even though we have heard strong rumors of Acura pushing the wheelbase out, which indicates that it will have virtually nothing identical to the Accord he claims it is a copy of, he persists with is unsubstantiated claims of it being nothing more than an Accord. They could put it on an entirely different platform and he would find a way to claim it is an Accord. Truth is, we really don't know. It might be a heavily modified Accord platform, but A) that isn't all bad and B) depending on how modified it is, it may be an Accord in lineage only. If they are planning to go global with Acura soon, then it may have a different platform. Perhaps Honda has given Acura a platform more akin to Audi's so that they can differentiate themselves from Honda a bit, much as VW and Audi did, even though they still share major componentry.

A further case is that Acura said E-SH-AWD wouldn't be standard on the car. For all we know, the mechanical version will be standard. That would make it not be 2WD, but it would also not make eSH-AWD standard. But instead, he resorts to assuming that the only solution is FWD. Maybe it is, but we just don't know, so to claim it is a quasi-fact is just more of him being him.

Case in point #3 are the assertions of it being "too small" by moving the wheelbase out a few inches, even if they keep the same total envelope they could get quite a bit more space. They never said it was the same size though, they said SIMILAR. That means that in addition to the wheelbase stretch, if they added a few inches in length, an inch or two in width, and MAYBE some height, they would likely gain all of the space they need to be on par with the BMW and Merc interiors. As someone already illustrated, the RL is 7 cubic feet shy of having the interior capacity of a 7 series, despite its much smaller exterior. Therein lies the main benefit to a transverse powertrain layout versus a longitudinal one. If they put most of that 7 cubic feet in the rear, then this car will be as capacious and as roomy as the 7 and E/S without having to add a huge amount of length. No telling what that might do to the trunk space though.

Personally, I think a lot of people are getting disgusted with car size. I know a lot of BMW faithful aren't happy with it right now, and I don't see too many people complaining about the exterior size as long as the interior size is where it needs to be. It is unlikely that people are going to complain about the size of a car if it is 500-600lbs lighter, smaller and easier to maneuver, but still feels spacious and luxurious on the inside. The current RL was never railed for being too small outside, it was railed for having a back seat that was too small, which is why most of that expansion needs to go to the rear. I think they are trying to minimize exterior space to minimize weight, which should maximize MPG. A 4,000lb car with 400HP and 450-500 lb-ft of torque will certainly be adequate in the power department, and with IMA integrating seamlessly with the powerband of the J series, I think it will make for a very competitive powertrain, assuming it isn't too heavy. That combination will give it a very seamless, smooth, and effortless acceleration curve, which was another area the RL was criticized. Cabin materials, build quality and fabrication are already up there with Merc and Benz.

What I think will also potentially appeal about the RL, if it is competitive in other ways, will be the likely enhanced reliability/ownership costs of such a car, vs the Germans which tend to be very complex and are notorious for having issues after a short time. I am not totally confident Honda can pull that off though, because of trends as of late.



I thought we agreed to ignore each other, if you want to act like a little petulant girl and use my name in replying to other posts to try to attack me, make up things, and try to convince others I am someone I am not then have the balls to reply directly to me.

You complain, challenge, and try to attack me for being critical of Honda but in other threads you often say some of the same exact things I complain about that you have attacked me for saying, talk about a childish hypocrite and arguing just to argue. You are just wasting people's time when you do that. Stop attacking others and acting like you are the lone Honda authority here because you are not, you are just another person here with an often changing and conflicting opinion.

You are not even an Acura or luxury buyer, you like fwd small sporty 4 cylinders like civic Si's which means you are a Honda enthusiast and buyer. There is nothing wrong with that or what you prefer but stop acting like you know anything about the luxury market and attacking people who want what is required of a luxury make over what is suitable for a common lower end brand. Only someone who is completely clueless about luxury/performance brands and cars would attack a poster wanting a luxury brand to offer rwd, a V8, and a powerplant with well over 305hp. If you don't like rwd, flagships, V8s, high hp, luxury, etc then stick to buying and liking more mainstream brand like Honda's, Acura is supposed to be a upmarket luxury brand and you are clearly not interested in those types of brands or cars since you criticize them so much.

Please go on other cars sites, especially other Acura sites that are talking about the rumors/info for the new RL. You will see you are in the minority in your way of thinking and most agree with me that a new RL heavily resembling the current one and now a Hyundai and Buick with eSHAWD not being standard and possibly a downmarket lower hp fwd version being offered is not exactly garnering glowing enthusiasm or positive remarks at all. I am sure you consider all the other people who are critical must be all secret Honda haters and only you know what is best for Acura.

I will wait and see what they actually do and hope I am wrong in my predictions because I AM NOT A HONDA HATER like you falsely try to paint me as. Unfortunately from what I have read I am not having a good feeling about what they may do. I was hoping the RL would be a breakthrough car for Acura that would shut most critics up so I won't have to keep defending Acura which gets tiring since Ito has been CEO and making horrible decisions.



Here I am replying to you. I have been mostly ignoring you for years, but eventually, some points are worth addressing. I don't want Honda to mistakenly confuse that the only way forward is by copying everyone else, because over the last 10 years or so of the companies operation, I have stood by while people tell them it is so, and have watched them destroy the product that everyone loved (and consequently made them successful) because they drove more and more toward being less like Honda and more like everyone else. While I am not delusional in thinking VTEC.net is the epicenter of the universe, I do know that they monitor the site heavily for feedback. Thus, I like to make sure that propaganda doesn't always go without an opposing viewpoint.

1) I haven't been at all petulant. What I said about you is 100% true. You have had absolutely nothing nice to say about Acura in roughly the 10+ years I have been here. Meanwhile, you spew your incessant and never-ending religious mantra of V8, V8, V8. There is a difference between criticizing constructively and what it is you do. Your failure to see that is not my problem.

2) Funny that you don't like being "attacked" (I was actually observing) but then you attack me. You have absolutely no idea what I aspire to, nor do you have a clue what I like. I DO like small 4 banger cars like the Si. They are fun, they are lithe and they are full of character at a cheap price. However, I also like hotrods, muscle cars, antique cars, trucks, bikes, and luxury cars. Just because I currently own an Si doesn't mean I have zero exposure to anything else, or zero desire to own anything else.

You on the other hand ceaselessly setup a list of values that Honda will not meet and then use that as a basis to construct an argument against Acura to prove "objectively" how they can't succeed. It borders on the same level as AGW propagandists who setup hypothesis criteria and then collect data to prove the hypothesis, rather than letting the data objectively support or refute the hypothesis. But since you set up a list of criteria that you knew Honda wouldn't meet ahead of time, you can tell yourself you are objective.

We have covered all of this before:

Honda's IMA system is very likely to provide performance on par with ANY V8 in class (especially when you figure in the likely weight difference), but somehow, it isn't good enough. The whole purpose that you repeatedly support for a V8 is total acceleration, and linear/smooth power delivery. If this powertrain meets that goal, then how is it not worthy? Solely because you don't like the "H" word? Also, how do you explain everyone else's retreat away from V8's in all but the highest end models? I mentioned that up to 2-3 years ago, and there is plenty of evidence of it. Audi is replacing their "normal" V8 models with the supercharged V6, BMW is replacing V12 with turbo V8's, V8's with turbo I6's and I6's with turbo fours. How else do you explain a FOUR BANGER 5 series? Merc has followed the plan a little less, but in a few years that may be different. Where is Lexus' GS V8? The only V8 cars I can think of in the last 2 years has been the Equus and the M56. Cadillac is downsizing engines too. Personally, I would probably prefer the boosted route, but honestly, I don't think most people will care either way if the power delivery and NVH are there.

The RL is slightly too small now, but 7 cubic feet is not an insurmountable volume to add. If they stretch the car to have interior accomodations on par with the 7 series/S class, then how has this car failed size wise? P.S. The current RL is nearly 8" shorter than the 7 and almost a full foot shorter than the A8L, so it isn't like they don't have a bit of room to move up.

If they completely alter the "Accord platform" that you are so sure it uses, to the point of it being completely different, with a longer wheel base, different length and maybe even different proportions (if rumors of a Genesis like stance are to be believed), then how has this car failed by being "just another Accord?" Why do you not complain about BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Audi all platform sharing amongst their models? Is it because you suspect it might be FWD based? If so, then why do you not slander Audi (whose brand cache is on a rapid upward trajectory) for having ALL FWD based platforms? Why are they not continually slandered for having a rebadged Golf, a FWD entry level car, and a midsize car sharing the same platform, which is essentially what Acura is? Why do you not continually slander them for having a ~55-60% front weight biased "flagship" with the engine sitting entirely ahead of the axle centerline that has to rely on AWD to make it competitive? Sounds a lot like the RL from a design standpoint, but somehow Acura sucks...

You pride yourself on being objective and criticizing Acura, but the problem isn't that you are unhappy with Acura, it is more that you are not nearly as sly about your bias as you believe yourself to be. You continually slander Acura for doing everything wrong, but don't leverage the same distaste toward others, when appropriate.

Frankly, Acura has some problems, mainly in styling and packaging size, but most of the requirements for a "luxury" car are not at fault for their issues. Certainly, having FWD based platforms is not the sole issue as Audi doesn't suffer the same problem, despite having the same platform philosophy.

What luxury buyers actually want is seamless performance, syrabitic features, unquestionable build quality and brand snobbery. Unfortunately for ALL of the Japanese lux companies, it is that last requirement that is hard to come by, as not one of them has actually achieved it (Lexus is closest, but is still not considered on the same level as BMW, MERC and Audi).

I agree that Acura has to improve in a lot of ways, most of which they have already confirmed. We have significantly more power, significantly more interior space, most likely better proportions (the main thing IMO that was "unluxury" about the appearance of the RL), hopefully better MPG etc, and you are already attempting to build a set of criteria against which to rail them yet again, when the car hasn't even debuted yet.



That is typical of you to label others peoples opinions as "propaganda" and to think you have to set everything straight, a little delusional aren't you.

For your information Honda has pretty much done the exact opposite of what most people/journalists have wanted them to do in the past 10 years by not building sports cars, not building a rwd 3 series fighter, not building a rwd flagship, not going upmarket, not offering coupes, not building type R models, not building DSGs, not offering V8s, V10s, or FI 6 cylinders so I don't know what you feel you have to set straight or why you feel they have "copied" others. Honda has done mostly what enthusiasts/journalists have complained about which is base everything on Accords, only offer Honda based V6s and 4 cylinders(aside from the RDX engine), stick with 5 speed autos for too long, and focus too much on SUVs, etc. Basing everything on Accords and civics is not doing things their own way, it is really just not trying and doing what is the cheapest and easiest for them.

1)More "facts" you are making up with the 10+ years, I have not been on this site for 10+ years or anywhere close, I joined about 4 years ago. I have had plenty of good things to say about Honda and Acura and their models over the years so stop lying to try to prove your false point. Not all my posts are V8 V8 rwd rwd.

I have argued on here before that the 4th TL did not go on a rwd platform nor did it need a V8 before the 4th gen was revealed and I mostly stand by it now although the styling issues of making a bigger TL on a Accord platform are clearly evident with the front overhangs, etc. I don't want every Acura model to be rwd or offer a V8, I would even say that would be a bad idea since Acura has had success with fwd TLs and TSXs but I believe models above the TL need to go on rwd platforms now to deal with increases in hp, if they are sticking to a fwd platform then a RL or Legend should have the AWD system standard and not go more downmarket.

The reason I push Acura so hard on making a rwd sports sedan or coupe is because I think only Acura is really the only company that could make a rwd sports sedan better then a 3 series or 5 series considering how competitive the 3rd Gen TL/TL-S was and what they have done with the NSX and S2000.

2)I am not really bothered if I get attacked, what bothers me is when you make things up about me, try to paint me as something else(honda hater) and spread false information. Don't lump me in with AGW propagandists or any greenie liberal group,(more of you trying to spread false info) I don't buy into their agenda, gov funded "research", or results.

Most of my critical posts are mainly aimed at Ito's leadership and poor decisions like killing(not pushing it back) the completed V10ASC, rwd sedan, V8s, and V10s and pushing this "smart" "responsible" environmentally conscious" nonsense instead for Acura.

My criteria for Acura sedans, coupes, and sports cars is not at all unrealistic or over the top.

If the new 3 motor hybrid system provides the power and performance of a modern V8 and can somehow sustain that power/performance even with prolonged enthusiastic driving then I won't complain much although I still feel a V8 option should be available for a flagship. I have warmed to the 3 motor powerplant since they announced it will put out around 400hp(we will see if that is true) in the sedan.

As far as some companies replacing V8s that is due to strict gov mandates that I don't support. Only Audi and Lexus have done it with the A6 and GS, those two cars were never big sellers in America and the take on the V8s was very small since the 6 cylinders were just as quick or quicker, performance versions of those cars may still offer V8s. The companies that are downsizing engines are at least making the smaller FI engines perform as good or better then the bigger engines they are replacing. Nobody is giving up on rwd or V8s in flagship sedans, coupes, sports cars though.

I don't care if companies share platforms, I encourage it, I don't care if Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, platform share with fwd sedans but I do have a problem when Acura shares everything with a Honda Accord and now a honda civic.



"You pride yourself on being objective and criticizing Acura, but the problem isn't that you are unhappy with Acura, it is more that you are not nearly as sly about your bias as you believe yourself to be. You continually slander Acura for doing everything wrong, but don't leverage the same distaste toward others, when appropriate."

These are just more false accusations and conclusions about me that you have made up in your head and are trying to convince others to believe. I complain about other brands and cars all the time, since this is a Honda-Acura site and forum, call me crazy but I will tend to focus on Honda/Acura when I post here.

You can keep attacking people who want more from Acura then all fwd Accord and civic based cars and nothing above a Honda based V6 engine option all you want but you are simply in the minority of what even hardcore Acura fans want . It has been pretty universal that buyers and journalists have said Acura should have a rwd car with a V8 option at the top of their sedan lineup if they want to be taken seriously for a long time.

Name me one luxury company that has been successful selling fwd based v6 luxury/performance cars based on common family sedans. Can you honestly say based by sales of the current RL that Acura has been very successful in this class selling the car the way it is.



Your position was labeled as "propaganda" because you ceaselessly and tirelessly push the mantra that there is no way forward except to be like Infiniti, et. al. Your position is also propaganda because you have a hidden agenda that you try to hide in a pseudo-rational, thinly veiled wrapper of openmindedness, when really you have nothing nice to say abotu Acura, the way they do business or the prodcut the release. I can literally pull ANY sampling of 90-95% of your posts and prove my point.

You follow the same tired charade everytime. First, you leverage false hope about Acura's future. Then you talk about something from the "good old days" like the 2nd gen Legend, and then you follow it up with a not so veiled, lopsided flogging for being a failure of human beings, inclusive of how nothing other than a V8 can compete with everything else. Then, when called out on realities like engine downsizing, and other FWD platforms that sell well and are perceived well, you ignore them and start the attacking to hide the questions that you can't answer without tipping your hand.

1) You want another FWD based brand that is successful despite plebian car undercarriage? Audi. Yup. Brought it up again. Why deny the fact that the car that single-handedly saved Audi from oblivion (the first A4) was a direct brother to the Passat, a plebian, nose heavy FWD based car with optional AWD. In fact, until the current generation of Passat, the two were kissing cousins. The A4 was smaller, but the "plank" was the same. IIRC, the A6 was also heavily based on the Passat, and yet, neither one had style challenges nor perception challenges. You continually ignore that, but whatever.

2) How do you explain that the Lexus ES300 has continually outsold every single RWD Lexus combined and outsold most of the V8 models by several to one? How has Lexus not suffered brand image tarnish by having their best selling model based on a Camry, which is in no way structurally superior to an Accord?

The problem is that you simply don't want to give Acura credit where credit is due. Once you actually leverage open-minded discussion, I will happily stop accusing you of propaganda. As long as what you are shoveling is BS, then I am going to call it BS.

You complained that Acura can't compete with FWD based cars. Yet, they feature AWD, and AUDI manages to compete just fine with FWD based, AWD cars. Clearly that can't be the problem. Also contrary to your BS, Acura cleanly outsold Cadillac and Infiniti with FWD based cars until they put the beak on the TL and TSX. That lends further weight against the FWD component of your arguement.

Clearly, a V8 is NOT required below $60K because not only are most sales below that price point NOT V8 powered (be it BMW, Merc, Infiniti, Hyundai, Lexus, Cadillac etc), but nearly ALL of the companies are downsizing to sixes and fours. Considering the trend encompasses the entire segment, that pretty much shoots your "more V8" theory in the foot. Some V8 models are being cancelled altogether, or aren't even available below $60K; with no more A6 V8, no 5 series V8 (short of M5 which is $90K), no V8 GS, and no V8 CTS short of the V. Acura would be much more inline with a powerful V6 engine in the RL...oh wait...

Second, the mantra of a V6 can't compete is total bullshit in the face of the ~400HP output of the RL's powertrain, and the likely ~400 lb-ft right off idle that it will probably have when coupled with the IMA. That is on par with ANY V8 in class, and it will likely make it very low in the rev range, which will lend itself perfectly to lazy, effortless acceleration. If Acura can hold the line on weight, with the car coming in right around 4,000lbs, then even better, because even the RWD M56 will weigh that much (RWD 550i is nearly 400lbs more). If the power to weight ratio is similar, it isn't going to matter much how many cylinders it has. With the NVH characteristics of Honda's V6 engines, I would welcome it in such a car, because despite its different engine note, it is extremely smooth and refined. Furthermore, should the prospective customer order up AWD, then the competitors are going to start piling on weight as well. People like you always love to shove power outputs around, but never quite stop to consider the overall picture. You have output and torque, but you also have gearing, and weight. The reason cars like the NSX were able to punch above their weight class, is that they considered the entire system of performance, and not just weight. It is also how lighter cars like the NSX came up with not only better total acceleration, but superior balance and dynamics versus their contemporary peers. If you want all out power at the expense of everything else, than a Honda/Acura was never the car for you. We all know that, but you refuse to admit it. What most of us repeat Honda/Acura buyers liked was the ability of Honda to provide competitive performance with less total power because they leveraged weight, gearing, and intelligent design rather than just throwing power at the problem, hoping it would go away. Unfortunately, that is a major part of the system that lead to our current choices of super large, overweight, bloated cars that are nowhere near as fun to drive as their older, lighter, and slower predecessors. Maximum speed limit in my state is 75MPH. Even the current RL can get there in ~10 seconds, so really, I would trade a more enjoyable chassis for outright dick-swinging rights anyday of the year, because it will be mor enjoyable the other 364 days a year.

Acura's issue is a very plain and simple mix of not having a cohesive brand identity, and styling.


P.S. I look forward to your incessant critcism of Acura next week with the debut of the actual car. Not only will it be FWD and underpowered, and less than impressive, but I am sure you will be able to point to "product X" that is wholly superior in every way. I am also sure you will be able to illustrate how RL exhibit A is not as competitive as glory Acura B and so on.




Okay, after trying to get through that incessant rambling and babbling it only confirms why I chose to ignore you and why I should do so in the future. I stopped reading it because it is way too long again full of more false accusations and repeating the same wrong thing about me over and over. Repeating the same thing over and over again is not going to make it true. You fail at listening and comprehending what others tell you so it does me no good to keep telling you the theories you have about me rolling around in your head are untrue. I have no anti Honda "agenda" nor do I spread "propaganda", I have an opinion and beliefs like everyone else and will continue to voice them. You should learn to deal with differing opinions.

We have argued the same thing enough about what we feel Acura should do (well at least when you are not saying some of the same things I have said and we argued about in other posts). You are not going to change my position in what I feel Acura and you certainly won't stop me from voicing my opinion.

If you are that bothered by my posts I again suggest you ignore me, put me on your ignore list if TOV has one, if you can't help yourself for some reason and have to reply about what I said at least have the balls to reply directly to me instead of acting like a little petulant child and using my name in replying to others to try to spread false information. Before you decided to do that in this thread, the discussions I was having with other members were civil and friendly.

I have never to my knowledge personally attacked you or attacked your posts when you were not replying to my posts/using my name nor do I want to reply to you anymore so it would be better if you to try to act like an adult in this situation to avoid more overly long drawn out debates.

When the Acura RL is shown and if it basically just resembles the current one with some Hyundai and Buick styling cues thrown in then yes I(and many) will criticize it. If the base RL goes down to a fwd lower hp car and the eSHAWD is only a expensive option then it may receive criticism and it won't be just from me, I can assure that. Hopefully we are going to get something nicer then the very lukewarm reports we have got so far from people who have seen it, I would rather praise it then attack it and it does not have to be exactly what I want for me to still like it.
DevilMayCry
Profile for DevilMayCry
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-07-2012 09:43
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Owequitit and Lexusgs, you guys are doing it wrong!

Why all the long quotes and posts? Y'all can't make your points with just a few words? SMH!
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-07-2012 10:58
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
One of the problems is that chopping down quotes inacurately screws up the formatting.

The other is you cannot edit it.

But it makes reading it difficult.

Unless you just scroll to the final post & get the gist of it from there.

The upshot is invariably the same; LGS wants 'em to make fake BMWs & OQI points out they're gonna make fake Audis with batteries included.
NoSpinZone
Profile for NoSpinZone
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-07-2012 12:13
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Owe,

Way to stomp GS... if Acura started down the path of RWD V8 luxury then I think they'd be giving up too easily.

The use of hybrids always leaves me skeptical, but this system seems to apply it in the best possible way... in fact it makes so much sense for luxury brands it's insane.

I'd much rather have a hybrid Honda drivetraine than a FI, DI, AWD drivetrain by a German manufacturer where your car is a maintenance nightmare on wheels.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-07-2012 12:35
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Whilst I completely agree in principle, it presumes that the Honda system is as reliable and efficient as expected.

Their quality (whilst still leading the Germans by some margin in EU) appears also to have taken something of a hit recently.
lexusgs
Profile for lexusgs
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-07-2012 13:23
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
DevilMayCry wrote:
Owequitit and Lexusgs, you guys are doing it wrong!

Why all the long quotes and posts? Y'all can't make your points with just a few words? SMH!



I apologize for all the long multiple quotes in replies, I did try to erase the other quotes a few times before to cut down on replies but it totally screwed up the formatting of my reply with a large blackout section. I know it is annoying reading those long winded multi posts which is why I decided to ignore owequitit and will ignore him in the future.
Mikeydred
Profile for Mikeydred
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-07-2012 13:29
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
All I can say is what once was a great thread has gone down the drain.

Here's my attempt to get it back on track. Although, I was not old enough to understand the physics behind 4ws (original SH).What if Honda reintroduced something similar on the base RL? A system like this would fool a lot of people in believing the vehicle is not FWD. This added with modern technology to correct torque steer, I donít see why it canít be done and be successful at the same time.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: 2013 Acura RL Previewed    (Score: 1, Normal) 02-07-2012 15:39
Reply to This Message Attach Quote to Reply
Mikeydred wrote:
All I can say is what once was a great thread has gone down the drain.

Here's my attempt to get it back on track. Although, I was not old enough to understand the physics behind 4ws (original SH).What if Honda reintroduced something similar on the base RL? A system like this would fool a lot of people in believing the vehicle is not FWD. This added with modern technology to correct torque steer, I donít see why it canít be done and be successful at the same time.



THIS

It's a bloody fantastic system; it's a tad heavy, but basically it adjusts for the stupidity of the driver/sudden swerves beautifully, independent of throttle. It tightens the turning radius & eliminates understeer. It adds no real friction/drag. It makes a car incredibly fast point-to-point, without needing to go particularly fast.

Unfortunately, Honda couldn't get dim hacks to comprehend it & therefore the dim public didn't understand it either. They should have tried harder.

My Prelude is a superb car - unmatchable today. It's incredibly forgiving, lightish, fast for only 200BHP (you need that to START most modern rubbish) comfortable & fun to drive all at once. A lot of that is down to the advanced chassis design. Even BMW & Renissan are now experimenting with (inferior) systems. Where is Honda?

Unfortunately it would seem Honda has been me-tooing everyone else of late; producing cars not for what they are, but for what they appear to be. Such superficiality disgusts me.

It's thus encouraging to see them actually trying with e-SHAWD; it may well work best on heavier cars; entry-level, lower-powered ones would benefit from 4WS. Arguably the former for V6 models, the latter for S4s, as an example.



N/A
Message is below viewing threshold    (Score: -1, Troll) 02-08-2012 01:33
 
This message is below your viewing threshold, you may view the message by clicking on the link: View Message
N/A
Message is below viewing threshold    (Score: 0, Normal) 02-08-2012 02:18
 
This message is below your viewing threshold, you may view the message by clicking on the link: View Message
N/A
Message is below viewing threshold    (Score: -1, Troll) 02-08-2012 11:05
 
This message is below your viewing threshold, you may view the message by clicking on the link: View Message
N/A
Message is below viewing threshold    (Score: 0, Normal) 02-08-2012 11:46
 
This message is below your viewing threshold, you may view the message by clicking on the link: View Message
 
Thread Page - 1 2 3 [4] 5 6
Go to:
Contact TOV | Submit Your Article | Submit Your Link | Advertise | TOV Shop | Events | Our Sponsors | TOV Archives
Copyright © 2014 Velocitech Inc. All information contained herein remains the property of Velocitech Inc.
The Temple of VTEC is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Co., Inc. TOV Policies and Guidelines - Credits - Privacy Policy
mobile: 0