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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Ito Speaks

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CB77
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Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 13:03
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(Here are some excerpts from Mr. Ito's interview with Auto News)



Q: What are the main improvements you want from the next-generation one-motor hybrid system that debuts on the redesigned Fit?
A: In addition to better fuel efficiency, we want really light-footed driving performance. Enhancement of both is the main objective. To achieve that, we completely redid the current integrated motor assist system -- not just the motor. We completely revamped the transmission and the engine. The battery has gone through a major advancement.

Q: Will you use the new hybrid system in the Civic?
A: The Civic is in between the Fit and Accord, so we are still wondering about that. If we install the system from the larger cars [in the Civic], it's going to provide tremendous fuel efficiency. But if you think about value for money, it could be excessive.

I'm sure the new system from the Fit could be used for the Civic because it will have excellent performance.

But it will not perform as well as the performance it gives to the Fit. But I think that for the U.S. market, hybrid is really the technology of the future.

Q: In the future, will you pursue more stand-alone hybrid models or rely mostly on hybrid variants of existing models?
A: The basic direction is to provide a hybrid among the variants. The times have changed from the era when people saw hybrids as something rare and special. I'm not saying we've given up on that road. But when we want to sell to the masses, our strategy is to add a hybrid type to an existing model.

Q: Are you planning a next-generation hybrid-only Insight?
A: We don't want to just let it die out. We want to continue to give Insight some kind of symbolic meaning.

I can't promise it, but we want to continue to at least take care of the product name Insight. But if the timing is right and the technology comes together and converges into a product, that's when the name Insight is a good name.

Q: You want to see more regional R&D work. When will the United States get full responsibility for developing an Accord?
A: I don't think it's going to take that long. If you ask me, I would like to have the next-generation U.S. Accord developed in the United States.

Q: What new investments are needed for the United States to take the lead in Accord development?
A: Our r&d facilities in the United States have sufficient equipment. They have sufficient manpower.

If you are talking about conventional gasoline-based internal combustion engines, transmissions and platforms, then all of those activities can be done in the United States already.

If we want to do the next generation Accord in the United States, by then we would expect that the hybrid penetration rate will have increased. So we would have to add a facility related to hybrid technology.

We need to have facilities to measure deterioration in battery performance.

That kind of expertise is really concentrated in Japan currently. So we need to take that know-how and the facilities to the United States.

Q: What are your plans to boost Acura?
A: I think that's a brand where we need to improve the product attractiveness on a continual basis. Americans really have a keen eye for evaluating cars. They are connoisseurs. It's a question of how consistently and how much we have continually been emphasizing and communicating the value of the Acura brand.

Q: How do you plan to improve the communication?
A: We have plans to reinforce the product lineup for Acura. First off, we're coming out with the NSX. It's full of advanced technologies that will really allow people to enjoy driving, technologies they have never experienced before.

Then we will have the RLX. It won't just be a hybrid. It will have new handling mechanisms. The current RL is a great driving sedan. But the new one is undergoing a major evolution.

Q: Why did Honda continue with plans to open its new Yorii assembly plant in Japan next year when most manufacturers are trimming capacity at home?
A: For Honda to ensure its growth globally, Honda needs to have substantial sales in Japan that really show its presence here.

Also, the technology that goes into the manufacturing in Japan has to be the latest, most state-of-the-art. Our Sayama plant has been there many, many years. It has gone through renovations and improvements one after the other.

But it's gotten to a stage where it's difficult to make modifications that can deliver a big advancement.

That's why we've decided to build the Yorii plant. It will have the most advanced manufacturing technology.
notyper
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 13:30
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"We don't want to just let it die out. We want to continue to give Insight some kind of symbolic meaning."

Strange, isn't it, that they want to perpetuate one of their least successful models, both from an image and sales standpoint (as well as performance relative to its competition)?

Too bad they couldn't have done with some of their more successful models........oh, wait, what am I thinking. Those cars weren't green enough.

SC
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 13:44
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notyper wrote:
"We don't want to just let it die out. We want to continue to give Insight some kind of symbolic meaning."

Strange, isn't it, that they want to perpetuate one of their least successful models, both from an image and sales standpoint (as well as performance relative to its competition)?

Too bad they couldn't have done with some of their more successful models........oh, wait, what am I thinking. Those cars weren't green enough.

SC



Aahh... being mean, huh? What? Did you spend the night in California? ;-)

I would guess that Ito meant that he wants to keep the Insight as an hybrid ICON and he recognizes that it doesn't work as it now stands.

I mean, the name by itself is pretty meaningful, almost as much as Legend (which, BTW, needs to come back for their top car...).

Perhaps, going forward he wants to use the Insight name for a more meaningful car, like the Clarity. BUT, the issue is that unless he hurries up, the brand name associated with "Insight" will be dead goods.

OTOH, look at the CR-Z... it gained all the good will from the old CR-X! And it looks like they are moving to salvage the brand name with the addition of the supercharger and more power motors.

Yeah... I wish they hadn't killed the Prelude, Element and RSX-S. And I sincerely hope the TSX makes it. I suppose HMC needs to start thinking that GREEN is also the color of the US Dollar, and that in the US -at least- being IN THE GREEN means making money... A US built TSX would surely be GREEN ENOUGH in that sense, huh?

Because, the Insight, as GREEN as it is, surely must BE IN THE RED.

Of course, HMC is currently heavily IN THE GREEN, has been so for four years now, even with the quake and Lehman Brothers, so may be they can afford to keep making GREEN cars that are in THE RED, while they kill RED cars that are IN THE GREEN.

Jeez... getting confused here... My Si has a red dash... but it has the K24 green engine, instead of the K20Z red engine... it's confusing. I need to move to where the air is clear... like North of LV.

P54
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 14:49
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notyper wrote:
"We don't want to just let it die out. We want to continue to give Insight some kind of symbolic meaning."

Strange, isn't it, that they want to perpetuate one of their least successful models, both from an image and sales standpoint (as well as performance relative to its competition)?

Too bad they couldn't have done with some of their more successful models........oh, wait, what am I thinking. Those cars weren't green enough.

SC



Don't forget the last part of the paragraph you quoted from:

"I can't promise it, but we want to continue to at least take care of the product name Insight. But if the timing is right and the technology comes together and converges into a product, that's when the name Insight is a good name. "

That is the missing link, that the Insight converges into a product that goes all out, a car that people will want to buy. like Clarity or similar.
MasterOfDaDomain
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 15:41
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Who gives a damn about the product name, unless you have a strong product. This Insight is a failure from the start, just kill it!

On the other hand, Honda, thanks for killing the names and products that people love.
Ultima
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 16:52
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Hybrid this and that. This is what happens when you have treehuggers and accountants making all the decisions.
P54
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 17:07
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MasterOfDaDomain wrote:
Who gives a damn about the product name, unless you have a strong product. This Insight is a failure from the start, just kill it!

On the other hand, Honda, thanks for killing the names and products that people love.



It depends how you look at it. The name can mean something and the first Insight was an insight into new technology that produced 70 mpg at that time. Aluminum body, aerodynamic efficient, hybrid tech with manual etc.

The 2nd generation got compromised chassis/body wise but return excellent fuel mileage at a very reasonable price which should have been even lower had not the exchange rate worked against it. Honda sold more than 100.000 Insight the first year in Japan alone.

Remember that the vehicle tech developed finds its way into more vehicle models and the market for smaller economical vehicles might be more popular in other parts of the world than USA.

The more vehicles Honda can put their hybrid tech on the more cost effective it becomes and the vehicle Honda chooses to put their new tech on will be a test-bed for further refinements.

Some people also love the challenge of cooperating with the hybrid tech as to see how FE they can get. Instead of high rpm fanatics they become fuel miser fanatics. I do not know the numbers, however I'm pretty sure that Honda hybrids have sold in greater numbers than their SI or R models.

Anybody can make fast and powerful cars, however the challenge is to make cars FE and meet/exceed the strictest emission standards. That is where Honda is gaining "Insight".
It only needs to be wrapped in a more suitable body, at least for North America. Remember too that few places on earth have the cheap gas they do in USA and even though Prius on paper is more FE than Insight, in real life it is not far behind and the tech is so much more simplified than the Prius. Plus it it is more fun to drive and handles better than Prius.

Even though you see the Insight as a failure it has been the #1 and #2 selling hybrid vehicle in many countries. Yes, even the best selling Honda vehicle in some countries. And with Honda now producing more than 200.000 hybrids every year it hardly can be called failure. Remember it all started with Insight.






TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 17:11
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MasterOfDaDomain wrote:
Who gives a damn about the product name, unless you have a strong product. This Insight is a failure from the start, just kill it!

On the other hand, Honda, thanks for killing the names and products that people love.



I always had the Insight and Clarity of mind to become a Legend and of my own Accord, with Vigor and Civic spirit buy my wife a Climax

Sounds a lot better than

I always had the Hybrid and FCX of mind to become an RLX and of my own TSX, with TL and RSX spirit buy my wife an Aerodeck

BRING BACK THE REAL NAMES... THEY WERE SO MUCH MORE INTEGRAL.. SO MUCH MORE FUN.





P54
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 17:23
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Ultima wrote:
Hybrid this and that. This is what happens when you have treehuggers and accountants making all the decisions.



Hybrids have more advanced and expensive drive-trains that regular cars. That is why the new Porsche hybrid is priced like in the excess of $800.000. Accountants making all decisions you say?

Hybrids are more FE and is beneficial for the environment and air quality especially in big cities. Would you rather have the exhaust fumes from the 60's and 70's? It is called advancements. Might not be beneficial everywhere, however in cities with lots of cars and where gas is $ 10 a gallon you will benefit.

It is not about treehuggers, however about responsibility and the quality of the air you breath. Lots of people end up in a casket way too early because of the poor air quality. Some don't care, whether they breath through a cigarette or exhaust fumes though. Treehugger or common sense?
P54
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 18:02
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TonyE wrote:
MasterOfDaDomain wrote:
Who gives a damn about the product name, unless you have a strong product. This Insight is a failure from the start, just kill it!

On the other hand, Honda, thanks for killing the names and products that people love.



I always had the Insight and Clarity of mind to become a Legend and of my own Accord, with Vigor and Civic spirit buy my wife a Climax

Sounds a lot better than

I always had the Hybrid and FCX of mind to become an RLX and of my own TSX, with TL and RSX spirit buy my wife an Aerodeck

BRING BACK THE REAL NAMES... THEY WERE SO MUCH MORE INTEGRAL.. SO MUCH MORE FUN.









Totally agree. The other day driving in the car of my neighbor we came to talk about FE on cars and the MPG ratings of Hyundai. Out of the blue one of the others in the car said: " If you want good FE go buy a Civic."

Civic was what he said and not Honda.

The proponents for letter or number names want the brand name to be remembered, not the model. With so many cars using numbers and letters how is average Joe going to distinguish them all?

I will assume most people will associate Civic and Accord with Honda. But who else but car fanatics will think Acura when they hear RLX and ILX. When it comes to NSX it is special and an enthusiast car, not mainstream, and having been more than 20 years on the market it is known. I see the trend in Acura, all letters end with X, so you have ILX, MDX, NSX, RDX and RLX. Maybe Acura just want people to remember Acura and not the letters? Remembering letters and later try to look them up you might find so many cars with letters you are not sure if you remembered right or not. Names are more distinguished.

The name Legend got a very good reputation and when Honda killed that they also killed sales. Just saying you got a Honda did not say much but saying you got a Legend told everybody you got top of the line Honda. The Honda model names mean something and for customers it distinguishes what Honda they have. The model name becomes "legends" in itself.

Honda needs to bring Legend back in their lineup.



Ultima
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 18:23
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P54 wrote:
Ultima wrote:
Hybrid this and that. This is what happens when you have treehuggers and accountants making all the decisions.



Hybrids have more advanced and expensive drive-trains that regular cars. That is why the new Porsche hybrid is priced like in the excess of $800.000. Accountants making all decisions you say?

Hybrids are more FE and is beneficial for the environment and air quality especially in big cities. Would you rather have the exhaust fumes from the 60's and 70's? It is called advancements. Might not be beneficial everywhere, however in cities with lots of cars and where gas is $ 10 a gallon you will benefit.

It is not about treehuggers, however about responsibility and the quality of the air you breath. Lots of people end up in a casket way too early because of the poor air quality. Some don't care, whether they breath through a cigarette or exhaust fumes though. Treehugger or common sense?



It's amazing how you can take two sentences I type and from that jump to all sorts of conclusions and using extreme examples. Not surprising coming from a Honda apologist.

The Insight and CRZ has not lived up to expectations (and I'm being nice when I say that), their MPG are poor relative to their gasoline counterparts and the latter's component just add weight and cost without returning much in MPG. The point here is, maybe Honda should focus on making desirable hybrids first before trying to play with the big boys. I'm not against hybrids per se, I just don't want to see them in everything.

Nowhere did I say hybrid technology are less "advance". And bringing in an extreme outlier example as a 918 to demonstrate the high cost of hybrids? Seriously?

Your using 60's and 70's emissions to advance your point on needing more hybrids? I don't know if you know this, but today's gasoline autos are much more environmentally friendly than those days. Surprising I know!

You make it seem like enthusiast (you know, the type of people this site was designed for and who now makes up a tiny minority here) wants to pollute the earth and dump oil everywhere. I'm sure you would love for Honda to get rid of all their sporty cars.. oh wait, they already have. So you win. Honda is doing exactly what YOU want. Happy now?
Ultima
Profile for Ultima
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 18:31
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notyper wrote:
"We don't want to just let it die out. We want to continue to give Insight some kind of symbolic meaning."

Too bad they couldn't have done with some of their more successful models........oh, wait, what am I thinking. Those cars weren't green enough.

SC



This right here says it all about where Ito's priority lies.
Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 19:26
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Well at least NSX and CTR are coming back - with a purpose.

I like the idea of Honda giving their special names only to outstanding products. Even to ones giving Honda "insight", and it worked. The Fit based hybrid product has evolved to a bigger product family.

So a new "insight" must be a technology enabler again - not a product to make money immediately in the first Gen.
A name with a purpose.

Probably half the GTI generations sucked, BMW M is becoming softer and softer, Mini fatter and fatter....

The RL was/is called legend in many countries and that doesn't help it at all.

I think Itos most interesting comment was on Acura:
Q: ... how to fix brand / communications?
A: ...Product and Technology...
P54
Profile for P54
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 22:22
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Ultima wrote:
P54 wrote:
Ultima wrote:
Hybrid this and that. This is what happens when you have treehuggers and accountants making all the decisions.



Hybrids have more advanced and expensive drive-trains that regular cars. That is why the new Porsche hybrid is priced like in the excess of $800.000. Accountants making all decisions you say?

Hybrids are more FE and is beneficial for the environment and air quality especially in big cities. Would you rather have the exhaust fumes from the 60's and 70's? It is called advancements. Might not be beneficial everywhere, however in cities with lots of cars and where gas is $ 10 a gallon you will benefit.

It is not about treehuggers, however about responsibility and the quality of the air you breath. Lots of people end up in a casket way too early because of the poor air quality. Some don't care, whether they breath through a cigarette or exhaust fumes though. Treehugger or common sense?



It's amazing how you can take two sentences I type and from that jump to all sorts of conclusions and using extreme examples. Not surprising coming from a Honda apologist.

The Insight and CRZ has not lived up to expectations (and I'm being nice when I say that), their MPG are poor relative to their gasoline counterparts and the latter's component just add weight and cost without returning much in MPG. The point here is, maybe Honda should focus on making desirable hybrids first before trying to play with the big boys. I'm not against hybrids per se, I just don't want to see them in everything.

Nowhere did I say hybrid technology are less "advance". And bringing in an extreme outlier example as a 918 to demonstrate the high cost of hybrids? Seriously?

Your using 60's and 70's emissions to advance your point on needing more hybrids? I don't know if you know this, but today's gasoline autos are much more environmentally friendly than those days. Surprising I know!

You make it seem like enthusiast (you know, the type of people this site was designed for and who now makes up a tiny minority here) wants to pollute the earth and dump oil everywhere. I'm sure you would love for Honda to get rid of all their sporty cars.. oh wait, they already have. So you win. Honda is doing exactly what YOU want. Happy now?



I'll try to respond to you:

It's amazing how you can take two sentences I type and from that jump to all sorts of conclusions and using extreme examples. Not surprising coming from a Honda apologist.


extreme examples: What about this coming from you:..."treehuggers and accountants making all the decisions". I just responded to your extreme claim.


The Insight and CRZ has not lived up to expectations (and I'm being nice when I say that), their MPG are poor relative to their gasoline counterparts and the latter's component just add weight and cost without returning much in MPG. The point here is, maybe Honda should focus on making desirable hybrids first before trying to play with the big boys. I'm not against hybrids per se, I just don't want to see them in everything.


Whose expectations? Yours? It sold well beyond Honda's expectations in its own homeland. Exchange rate caused a higher selling price in USA than intended. Like I said it is #1 and #2 hybrid seller in many countries and some countries the Insight became Honda's best seller. Sales have diminished in USA because of unfavorable exchange rate and limited supply.

What Honda gasoline counterpart for Insight and CR-Z do you refer to? Insight is very fuel efficient and CR-Z was supposed to be a sporty HYBRID with good FE. Even MT for hybrid. Do not only look to HWY MPG, but to CITY or combined MPG, then tell me what counterpart they compare unfavorably to. And what counterpart handles as well and are as fun to drive? And are as reliable? Honda IMA is very lightweight and efficient, not much of a penalty there. If every model comes with hybrid you still have the option to buy non hybrid, why not let other people have the option of hybrid if they like it. And Honda is in the works of making desirable hybrids, hey, Honda hybrids has only been on the market for the last 12 years compared to over 300 years since the first design of internal combustion engine. And Honda has to work around patents too.

Nowhere did I say hybrid technology are less "advance". And bringing in an extreme outlier example as a 918 to demonstrate the high cost of hybrids? Seriously?


You stated: "Hybrid this and that. This is what happens when you have treehuggers and accountants making all the decisions.

If Porsche goes to that length to make hybrid (a +$800.000 car) while Honda tries to make hybrid an economical choice everybody can enjoy and benefit from, how can you say it is treehuggers and accountants making ALL decisions? The hybrid is here to meet demands for emission and CAFE standards, just like CVCC and catalytic converter did it in the 70's. It is called progress for the common good in an automotive world. Clean air is beneficial for city dwellers too, not just for country people. Hybrids make cars more expensive
and some might be of less profit for the company than non hybrid so how can you blame accountants for making the decisions.

"Your using 60's and 70's emissions to advance your point on needing more hybrids? I don't know if you know this, but today's gasoline autos are much more environmentally friendly than those days. Surprising I know!


Progress. Stricter rules brought us CVCC and catalytic converters. Even stricter rules brings us hybrids. More vehicles on the market brings about more emission than ever, gas gets more expensive and hybrids use less fuel. Yes the gas cars of today are very clean, because of ever stricter rules, the same rules that forces automakers to alternatives, hybrids is an intermediate step to next level whether you like it or not. Many complained back in the 70's too.

You make it seem like enthusiast (you know, the type of people this site was designed for and who now makes up a tiny minority here) wants to pollute the earth and dump oil everywhere. I'm sure you would love for Honda to get rid of all their sporty cars.. oh wait, they already have. So you win. Honda is doing exactly what YOU want. Happy now?


No. Honda is not doing what I want, they do what a responsible company has to do to meet ever stricter demands from lawmakers and to improve the air quality we all breath. Honda is not ridding themselves of sports cars, they are just in a transition to implement their latest tech into their sports cars to make them comply with the stricter standards to come. If Porsche develops hybrid sports car what is wrong if Honda does it? To a fraction of the cost.






P54
Profile for P54
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 22:45
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Ultima wrote:
notyper wrote:
"We don't want to just let it die out. We want to continue to give Insight some kind of symbolic meaning."

Too bad they couldn't have done with some of their more successful models........oh, wait, what am I thinking. Those cars weren't green enough.

SC



This right here says it all about where Ito's priority lies.



Don't make conclusions based on your mindset.
RolledaNsx
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 22:51
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The "Insight" was born under Ito's watch (executive vp of honda america r &d 1998 then president of honda r&d 2003) do you think he is going to talk bad or kill his own child(Insight)?!

For years the rest of the world thinks the americans don't need the big boats that they drive.Every senior member of the Honda board has work in America for a while in their career and they are trying to push their view of want we should drive down American throats.

Now Ito isn't a "green" but he thinks anything bigger than a Fit/Jazz is to big.Also I could be wrong but he is the first President that didn't spend time with Honda Racing(I never saw him) so he doesn't understand race on Sunday sell on Monday theme.

And have you notice at every one of his open press days somebody ask him about when are we going to see some sports cars.Last week he surprise everybody when he answered in english! Must of hit a nerve :)

I hope the press keeps it up..... because its working
To keep face.... we might see want we want
Ultima
Profile for Ultima
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 23:26
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P54 wrote:
Ultima wrote:
P54 wrote:
Ultima wrote:
Hybrid this and that. This is what happens when you have treehuggers and accountants making all the decisions.



Hybrids have more advanced and expensive drive-trains that regular cars. That is why the new Porsche hybrid is priced like in the excess of $800.000. Accountants making all decisions you say?

Hybrids are more FE and is beneficial for the environment and air quality especially in big cities. Would you rather have the exhaust fumes from the 60's and 70's? It is called advancements. Might not be beneficial everywhere, however in cities with lots of cars and where gas is $ 10 a gallon you will benefit.

It is not about treehuggers, however about responsibility and the quality of the air you breath. Lots of people end up in a casket way too early because of the poor air quality. Some don't care, whether they breath through a cigarette or exhaust fumes though. Treehugger or common sense?



It's amazing how you can take two sentences I type and from that jump to all sorts of conclusions and using extreme examples. Not surprising coming from a Honda apologist.

The Insight and CRZ has not lived up to expectations (and I'm being nice when I say that), their MPG are poor relative to their gasoline counterparts and the latter's component just add weight and cost without returning much in MPG. The point here is, maybe Honda should focus on making desirable hybrids first before trying to play with the big boys. I'm not against hybrids per se, I just don't want to see them in everything.

Nowhere did I say hybrid technology are less "advance". And bringing in an extreme outlier example as a 918 to demonstrate the high cost of hybrids? Seriously?

Your using 60's and 70's emissions to advance your point on needing more hybrids? I don't know if you know this, but today's gasoline autos are much more environmentally friendly than those days. Surprising I know!

You make it seem like enthusiast (you know, the type of people this site was designed for and who now makes up a tiny minority here) wants to pollute the earth and dump oil everywhere. I'm sure you would love for Honda to get rid of all their sporty cars.. oh wait, they already have. So you win. Honda is doing exactly what YOU want. Happy now?



I'll try to respond to you:

It's amazing how you can take two sentences I type and from that jump to all sorts of conclusions and using extreme examples. Not surprising coming from a Honda apologist.


extreme examples: What about this coming from you:..."treehuggers and accountants making all the decisions". I just responded to your extreme claim.


The Insight and CRZ has not lived up to expectations (and I'm being nice when I say that), their MPG are poor relative to their gasoline counterparts and the latter's component just add weight and cost without returning much in MPG. The point here is, maybe Honda should focus on making desirable hybrids first before trying to play with the big boys. I'm not against hybrids per se, I just don't want to see them in everything.


Whose expectations? Yours? It sold well beyond Honda's expectations in its own homeland. Exchange rate caused a higher selling price in USA than intended. Like I said it is #1 and #2 hybrid seller in many countries and some countries the Insight became Honda's best seller. Sales have diminished in USA because of unfavorable exchange rate and limited supply.

What Honda gasoline counterpart for Insight and CR-Z do you refer to? Insight is very fuel efficient and CR-Z was supposed to be a sporty HYBRID with good FE. Even MT for hybrid. Do not only look to HWY MPG, but to CITY or combined MPG, then tell me what counterpart they compare unfavorably to. And what counterpart handles as well and are as fun to drive? And are as reliable? Honda IMA is very lightweight and efficient, not much of a penalty there. If every model comes with hybrid you still have the option to buy non hybrid, why not let other people have the option of hybrid if they like it. And Honda is in the works of making desirable hybrids, hey, Honda hybrids has only been on the market for the last 12 years compared to over 300 years since the first design of internal combustion engine. And Honda has to work around patents too.

Nowhere did I say hybrid technology are less "advance". And bringing in an extreme outlier example as a 918 to demonstrate the high cost of hybrids? Seriously?


You stated: "Hybrid this and that. This is what happens when you have treehuggers and accountants making all the decisions.

If Porsche goes to that length to make hybrid (a +$800.000 car) while Honda tries to make hybrid an economical choice everybody can enjoy and benefit from, how can you say it is treehuggers and accountants making ALL decisions? The hybrid is here to meet demands for emission and CAFE standards, just like CVCC and catalytic converter did it in the 70's. It is called progress for the common good in an automotive world. Clean air is beneficial for city dwellers too, not just for country people. Hybrids make cars more expensive
and some might be of less profit for the company than non hybrid so how can you blame accountants for making the decisions.

"Your using 60's and 70's emissions to advance your point on needing more hybrids? I don't know if you know this, but today's gasoline autos are much more environmentally friendly than those days. Surprising I know!


Progress. Stricter rules brought us CVCC and catalytic converters. Even stricter rules brings us hybrids. More vehicles on the market brings about more emission than ever, gas gets more expensive and hybrids use less fuel. Yes the gas cars of today are very clean, because of ever stricter rules, the same rules that forces automakers to alternatives, hybrids is an intermediate step to next level whether you like it or not. Many complained back in the 70's too.

You make it seem like enthusiast (you know, the type of people this site was designed for and who now makes up a tiny minority here) wants to pollute the earth and dump oil everywhere. I'm sure you would love for Honda to get rid of all their sporty cars.. oh wait, they already have. So you win. Honda is doing exactly what YOU want. Happy now?


No. Honda is not doing what I want, they do what a responsible company has to do to meet ever stricter demands from lawmakers and to improve the air quality we all breath. Honda is not ridding themselves of sports cars, they are just in a transition to implement their latest tech into their sports cars to make them comply with the stricter standards to come. If Porsche develops hybrid sports car what is wrong if Honda does it? To a fraction of the cost.





“What about this coming from you:..."treehuggers and accountants making all the decisions". I just responded to your extreme claim. “

It’s amazing how you didn’t attack notyper even though I merely expand on what he was saying. Afraid of the ban stick?

A normal intelligent person would not take that literally. But I’ll dumb it down for you, “treehuggers” I was referring to Ito and his obsession with hybrids and accountants I was referring to Honda not having a single sports car. It’s not really difficult to see. Where are the S2000, Type R’s or the world? Because to the accountants, they don’t make the company much money, never mind the fact that they bring people into the showroom and give the company the Halo effect.

“Whose expectations? Yours? It sold well beyond Honda's expectations in its own homeland. Exchange rate caused a higher selling price in USA than intended. Like I said it is #1 and #2 hybrid seller in many countries and some countries the Insight became Honda's best seller. Sales have diminished in USA because of unfavorable exchange rate and limited supply. “

Are you f*cking kidding me? Why would I care what the f*uck it sells in Japan. Last time I checked, the US is their largest single market. They should give a F*ck what it sells here.

And no, it has not sold well at all here and I won’t even get into all the lukewarm response it’s gotten in the automotive world. You’re trying to go all over the place. Sh*t, since you’re all over the place, how about the ZDX? I guess it sold so well that Honda cancelled it. Or the RL sales? Or Crosstour.

Exchange rate affects profits, but what does that have to do with the number of units they sell? If it sold in droves Honda would be dumb not to keep sending them. And you’re using the exchange rate as the reason they don’t send very many here when in reality the CRZ and Insight has been a bust.

You stated: "Hybrid this and that. This is what happens when you have treehuggers and accountants making all the decisions.

“If Porsche goes to that length to make hybrid (a +$800.000 car) while Honda tries to make hybrid an economical choice everybody can enjoy and benefit from, how can you say it is treehuggers and accountants making ALL decisions? The hybrid is here to meet demands for emission and CAFE standards, just like CVCC and catalytic converter did it in the 70's. It is called progress for the common good in an automotive world. Clean air is beneficial for city dwellers too, not just for country people. Hybrids make cars more expensive
and some might be of less profit for the company than non hybrid so how can you blame accountants for making the decisions. “

Comparing Porsche to Honda, ah, grasping at straws aren't we? The common good? According to who? YOU? So hybrids are here to meet demands for CAFÉ standards eh? You DO realized that even though the Prius is the sales leader in hybrids, it only makes up a very tiny percentage of overall Toyota sales, right? Not just them, look at any manufacturer, hybrids sales make up a very tiny fraction of overall sales. The CAFE standards are averages and hybrids barely make a dent in them due to low sales relative to their gasoline counterparts. Look at the CRZ MPG and look at what you can get that gets similar or better MPG (non-hybrids) in the price point. And no, the CRZ is NOT fun to drive. If you think it is, you may want to aim a little higher.

“Progress. Stricter rules brought us CVCC and catalytic converters. Even stricter rules brings us hybrids. More vehicles on the market brings about more emission than ever, gas gets more expensive and hybrids use less fuel. Yes the gas cars of today are very clean, because of ever stricter rules, the same rules that forces automakers to alternatives, hybrids is an intermediate step to next level whether you like it or not. Many complained back in the 70's too. “

No sh*t. That was my point, that today’s car isn’t like what they used to be back then and they’re not polluting the world the way you make it seems. And, you’re barking up the wrong tree here with that environment BS you’re spewing.

“No. Honda is not doing what I want, they do what a responsible company has to do to meet ever stricter demands from lawmakers and to improve the air quality we all breath. Honda is not ridding themselves of sports cars, they are just in a transition to implement their latest tech into their sports cars to make them comply with the stricter standards to come. If Porsche develops hybrid sports car what is wrong if Honda does it? To a fraction of the cost. “

No ONE here is asking them to make only sports cars, NO one here is asking them to stop making hybrids, No ONE here is telling them to not pursue alternatives to gasoline-powered autos. What me, and other enthusiast on this site wants from Honda is: throw us a f*uckin’ bone and release at least ONE enthusiast car, not a 9th gen Civic Si that is inferior to the model it replaces. Now you tell me, is that asking for too much?

P54
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 00:29
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I don't know if you are jumping to conclusions or not. According to your statement you might as well say that the S2000 is his "own child" too, as that one was born under his watch too as you call it. But neither is true.

Neither of those two cars were born of him. They were developed in Japan, however while Ito was in USA his "child" was the MDX, North American truck of the year. While Ito was Executive Vice President,Honda R&D Americas, Inc. he was in charge of development of the first Acura SUV model, MDX,(not Insight). He is an engineer in the area of chassis design. Before that he was in charge of chassis design for the NSX in Japan, the world's first production car with all aluminum body. So he "gave birth" to a premium sports car and Honda's best SUV. And a big one to boot. Ito was also in charge of chassis design for:
First-generation CR-X (1983),
third-generation Accord (1985),
third-generation Prelude (1987)

To claim Ito do not understand racing is silly at best, He served as a General Supervisor of Motor Sports at Honda Motor Co. Ltd. since April 2004. He served as the President of Honda R&D Co Ltd of Honda Motor Co., Ltd. since June 2003 and he served as a Director of Honda R&D Co Ltd. since June 2003. He also was present at the MotoGP circuits, seeing the Honda win. I think he understand racing very well and Honda has entered into more racing avenues under Ito.

Ito has from the beginning expressed his interest to bring about sport cars but had to bring about the company first which has been hit hard in many different ways since he took leadership. To dedicate a new facility in USA for the new NSX, the development of the new Civic in USA, to go out and say the new Civic R will be the fastest FWD car around Nurburgring and to have the NSX involved in racing is pretty much him putting his words to action.

With escalating fuel prices more people are looking for fuel efficient smaller cars and there is no small car on the market as versatile as the Fit/Jazz. Building a new factory in Mexico to counter the unfavorable exchange rate will enable Honda to sell a whole lot more in USA. Today the sales are limited by the limited supply. That Honda make cars of every size annuls your statement that Ito think cars bigger than Jazz/Fit are too big. (MDX too). With future CAFE standards, however, cars in that size group will be in demand. Honda thinks ahead and develops things for up to 20-30 years into future. I guess Honda do not need to work on Americans to buy smaller cars anymore, the politicians make that happen.

Now, here is a Question to Ito:

Q: Worldwide, the Hondas people remember most and are most passionate about were the gas engined, affordable coupes for the everyman and everywoman. Names like Integra, Prelude, CR-X. Considering you have a new line of gasoline powerplants, can we expect to see cars like this ever again?

Ito answers:

(Ito, with a grin running from ear to ear, stood from his chair and then answered the question without the aid of the interpreter.) We absolutely have to and will prepare such a car. I promise.

Remember too that you have to thank Ito for Berkman being in the position he is. Ito put him there for a purpose.

How many CEO's would try this?


CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 00:30
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Ultima, I think the most incorrect thing about your statement is "accountants" being involved in hybrid tech. Really, no business would make a product unless there's a business opportunity behind it. The accountants don't make the decisions, they're there in the supply chain and to back up business decisions. You can blame the executives, not all of which have accounting certification.

That being said, it's pretty common knowledge that hybrids are a tough sell, so you can be sure that the decision is probably based a lot less on accountants and more on product planners trying to meet future emissions requirements and demonstrate technological superiority.
P54
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 00:52
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Ultima,

I did not attack you, I just responded to your post, just like I did to notypers post. Are you insinuating that responding to notyper means you are going to get banned. You mean in the land of the free there is not freedom of speech/opinion on TOV?

You express a very self-centered attitude, make it my way or else. You seem to have not followed the news why Honda have no sports car at the moment and have no understanding of the challenges auto manufacturers are facing at the years ahead. Like you say, you don't care.

Speaking of sales, do you realize hybrids is a product of meeting current and coming CAFE and emission standards and have been with us only 12 years. The coming years will see a lot more of them. Obama passed rules that will make hybrids, PHEV and EV a necessity. A responsible CEO concentrates on the most important stuff first, sports cars are secondary. Because he cares.
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 01:06
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P54 sure sounds like a paid Honda internet PR guy!

In the paddock... we couldn't go anywhere without them stinking up the place.

And I don't know want your smoking but the S2000 is not Ito's baby! People who own a SK2 know who that is!

So you better call your boss in Tokyo and get your facts correct.

I'll give you credit.... you got one correct

He loves bikes!
BachelorFrog
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 01:37
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LOL, P54..get a life.
HONDA AFVM
Profile for HONDA AFVM
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 08:48
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notyper wrote:
"We don't want to just let it die out. We want to continue to give Insight some kind of symbolic meaning."

Strange, isn't it, that they want to perpetuate one of their least successful models, both from an image and sales standpoint (as well as performance relative to its competition)?

Too bad they couldn't have done with some of their more successful models........oh, wait, what am I thinking. Those cars weren't green enough.

SC


Insight "CRZ" anyone?
P54
Profile for P54
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 09:43
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RolledaNsx wrote:
P54 sure sounds like a paid Honda internet PR guy!

In the paddock... we couldn't go anywhere without them stinking up the place.

And I don't know want your smoking but the S2000 is not Ito's baby! People who own a SK2 know who that is!

So you better call your boss in Tokyo and get your facts correct.

I'll give you credit.... you got one correct

He loves bikes!



Did you read my post at all??

Here is what you said:

"....do you think he is going to talk bad or kill his own child(Insight)?!

Here is what I said:

I don't know if you are jumping to conclusions or not. According to your statement you might as well say that the S2000 is his "own child" too, as that one was born under his watch too as you call it. But neither is true.

Neither of those two cars were born of him.


You said the Insight was Ito's child because he was head of Honda Americas R&D in 1998. To make you understand how silly that statement is I said you might as well include S2000, as it came out at about same time.

As you clearly can read above I said neither Insight nor S2000 is his "child". I even stated it twice and you still missed it.

Ito was leading the development of MDX while in USA. And he was the leader (in Japan) in chassis development on NSX, worlds first mass production all aluminum body, prior to that. He has proved through NSX and MDX what he is capable of, sports car and big SUV.

My point is not to be correct, however when you post things that is outright fantasy I think we all benefit from getting the facts straight. Especially on a Honda site. And there is no need to talk negative about another person that has done nobody harm.







CB77
Profile for CB77
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 09:47
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P54, you are wasting your time in trying to respond to "CrashedaNSX".

P54
Profile for P54
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 10:09
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RolledaNsx wrote:
P54 sure sounds like a paid Honda internet PR guy!

In the paddock... we couldn't go anywhere without them stinking up the place.

And I don't know want your smoking but the S2000 is not Ito's baby! People who own a SK2 know who that is!

So you better call your boss in Tokyo and get your facts correct.

I'll give you credit.... you got one correct

He loves bikes!



And just to get the facts straight and not leave any loopholes for doubts as you and others before you have insinuated I have worked for Honda, work for Honda or are paid by Honda, may I clearly say:

I have never worked for Honda, I have never been paid by Honda and NO, I am not a paid Honda internet PR guy.

Why should a Honda fan site spread incorrect information about Honda? People should go here to find facts about Honda, not fables and incorrect information about its leaders.


RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 11:30
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PR guy read slowly

Insight was design under his watch

He didn't design it

Honda R&D vice presidents and presidents give leadership,direction,insight,budget,followup,accountably

He wasn't lead on the MDX
He was the VP of Research and Design





BachelorFrog
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 12:20
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I believe it when I see it. Until then no sugar coating posts can convince me.
P54
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Re: Ito Speaks    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 13:07
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RolledaNsx wrote:
PR guy read slowly

Insight was design under his watch

He didn't design it

Honda R&D vice presidents and presidents give leadership,direction,insight,budget,followup,accountably

He wasn't lead on the MDX
He was the VP of Research and Design








Yasunari Seki, Honda Insight Project Leader:

"The reason we chose a five-door hatchback was that we wanted the car to be popular in Europe. American Honda – the biggest market – asked us to build a car with a boot, but we rejected that idea, because to compete with other green cars and sell more in Europe, it had to be a five-door hatchback. Of course, aerodynamically it is also a more favourable shape."

Leadership:

Insight 1 was under the watch of Kawamoto. When it came out to the market Yoshino was President.

Insight 2 was under the watch of Fukui. When Ito became CEO and President it was already finished.

Ito:

Responsible for automobile development
(principally, in the field of chassis design).

In charge of chassis design for:

First-generation CR-X (1983),
third-generation Accord (1985),
third-generation Prelude (1987)
and first-generation NSX (1990).

'98 Executive Vice President, Honda R&D Americas, Inc.

In charge of development of the first Acura
SUV model, MDX



 
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