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  TOV News > Honda Develops New Lightweight and Compact Hybrid System Named "SPORT HYBRID I-DCD" > > Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete?

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Dream'R
Profile for Dream'R
IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 13:42
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It appears that Honda has finally given up on the IMA approach to hybrid design. As much as I may appreciate my Civic hybrid's abilities, it's obvious the basic design has outlived its usefulness as hybrid engineering has moved further forward.

In the end, my appreciation for Honda has been built on their engineering prowess. I'm glad to see that they're getting back in the game and have the means to give Toyota a real challenge in terms of hybrid designs.
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 14:10
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its has electric drive range of 1.5 - 3 miles at 43 mph.
auto_enthu
Profile for auto_enthu
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 15:13
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No offense to IMA hybrid owners... but I thought its already been a few years since IMA has been considered obsolete by the market.

So, it shouldn't surprise anybody that Honda latest Hybrid technology does'nt have a mention of IMA.
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 18:22
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It's supposed to be an evolution of the IMA system.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121112/OEM02/311129996/ito-is-laying-the-groundwork-for-north-american-growth
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 18:33
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http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121112/OEM02/311129996/ito-is-laying-the-groundwork-for-north-american-growth

Let me correct that before someone kills me...
P54
Profile for P54
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 21:30
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RolledaNsx wrote:
its has electric drive range of 1.5 - 3 miles at 43 mph.


Why not provide the link too?

The Japanese carmaker has already created a prototype Fit / Jazz fitted with the new hybrid powertrain, which unlike Honda's current hybrid offerings, allows for pure-electric driving at speeds of up to 70km/h (43mph) for a distance of up to 5 kilometers (~ 3miles).

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2012/11/honda-announces-new-lightweight-and.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Carscoop+%28CARSCOOP%29
hiropon
Profile for hiropon
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2012 06:03
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http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-reviews/61322/new-honda-jazz-hybrid
BalIermd
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Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2012 06:11
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auto_enthu wrote:

No offense to IMA hybrid owners... but I thought its already been a few years since IMA has been considered obsolete by the market.

So, it shouldn't surprise anybody that Honda latest Hybrid technology does'nt have a mention of IMA.



+1

Couldn't have said it better.
TSX69
Profile for TSX69
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2012 08:17
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I ponder if they could turn IMA into something like eAssist & make it standard on their cars & then the new hybrid system as the option. The standard eAssist does not seem to be hurting Buick's sales ...
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2012 08:28
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Dream'R wrote:
It appears that Honda has finally given up on the IMA approach to hybrid design. As much as I may appreciate my Civic hybrid's abilities, it's obvious the basic design has outlived its usefulness as hybrid engineering has moved further forward.

In the end, my appreciation for Honda has been built on their engineering prowess. I'm glad to see that they're getting back in the game and have the means to give Toyota a real challenge in terms of hybrid designs.


I can't see how that question could be really relevant.

1st) By the time IMA2 reaches the market most IMA owners would already have spent several years on their cars (in my family 3 or 4 years). Technology will always keep improving, and no matter what car you buy you know that the next generation is likely to be better (more or less to your tastes that can be argued, but for sure it'll have improved almost everything at a given price point). It's like people that keep waiting to buy a smart-phone because the new stuff coming in a few months will be better. Well, sure it will, but so will the ones coming after those. If you want to have the best thing at every moment you need to regularly spend your money on it. Otherwise you just buy when you need and among what's currently in the market; no regrets, 'cause a good purchase can fulfill your needs for many years.

2nd) For many years current IMA cars will still remain superior (in the metrics about which hybrid drivers care) to any non-hybrid car.

Personally, as a IMA owner I'm just happy that Honda is working hard to give me serious reasons to replace my car when its time comes. I'm pretty much enthusiastic about what I read today, just hope they can make an MT version as well, 'cause I sure would give up on some FE and the pureEV fanciness to be able to use my clutch pedal.


P54
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Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2012 09:35
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2. Honda will use both dual-clutch and continuously variable transmissions

Honda has long used CVTs in fuel efficient vehicles and hybrids, and even in the new 2013 Honda Accord four-cylinder, yet the tech briefing showed several prototype hybrids with dual-clutch transmissions. So which transmission option will Honda use going forward? Both.

Honda maintains that CVTs are generally the better solution for all-out fuel economy, but recognizes that dual-clutch transmissions are much more fun to drive and sporty. Cars that are designed only with fuel economy in mind will continue to use CVTs, but premium and sportier vehicles will get dual-clutch setups.

“DCT is intended for sporty experience for vehicles,” Nonaka explained. “[It's] not just for hybrids, and can be combined with regular sportier gasoline engines.”



JeffX
Profile for JeffX
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2012 00:37
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P54 wrote:
2. Honda will use both dual-clutch and continuously variable transmissions

Honda has long used CVTs in fuel efficient vehicles and hybrids, and even in the new 2013 Honda Accord four-cylinder, yet the tech briefing showed several prototype hybrids with dual-clutch transmissions. So which transmission option will Honda use going forward? Both.

Honda maintains that CVTs are generally the better solution for all-out fuel economy, but recognizes that dual-clutch transmissions are much more fun to drive and sporty. Cars that are designed only with fuel economy in mind will continue to use CVTs, but premium and sportier vehicles will get dual-clutch setups.

“DCT is intended for sporty experience for vehicles,” Nonaka explained. “[It's] not just for hybrids, and can be combined with regular sportier gasoline engines.”






Yes the official message is that the CVTs are best for fuel economy optimization but then all the power train engineers at the Honda meeting in Tochigi were telling people that this new DCT was even more efficient than their CVTs. The DCT is incredibly compact
TurkMan71
Profile for TurkMan71
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2012 08:03
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Jeff wrote:
P54 wrote:
2. Honda will use both dual-clutch and continuously variable transmissions

Honda has long used CVTs in fuel efficient vehicles and hybrids, and even in the new 2013 Honda Accord four-cylinder, yet the tech briefing showed several prototype hybrids with dual-clutch transmissions. So which transmission option will Honda use going forward? Both.

Honda maintains that CVTs are generally the better solution for all-out fuel economy, but recognizes that dual-clutch transmissions are much more fun to drive and sporty. Cars that are designed only with fuel economy in mind will continue to use CVTs, but premium and sportier vehicles will get dual-clutch setups.

“DCT is intended for sporty experience for vehicles,” Nonaka explained. “[It's] not just for hybrids, and can be combined with regular sportier gasoline engines.”






Yes the official message is that the CVTs are best for fuel economy optimization but then all the power train engineers at the Honda meeting in Tochigi were telling people that this new DCT was even more efficient than their CVTs. The DCT is incredibly compact



No disrespect to Honda's new CVT in the new Accord, but hopefully DCT will eventually replace it in hybrid and non-hybrid variants...
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2012 09:31
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TurkMan71 wrote:
No disrespect to Honda's new CVT in the new Accord, but hopefully DCT will eventually replace it in hybrid and non-hybrid variants...
Read my comments on another thread, but from my own experience and Honda previous remarks on DCT's, I doubt they are as nice when not helped by the electric motors.

Imho, what they did here is pretty much a synergy between both which I'm eager to test drive, but from what I've driven on regular cars to me it's CVT all the way.

The amazing stuff here is that the motors aren't "integrated with the engines" anymore, but "in the transmissions". Remove the motors and you are left with discrete gearing which, personally, I don't like on AT cars (DCT or not).
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: IMA hybrids now obsolete? [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2012 17:36
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Right, DCTs have a complete disadvantage in crawl and low speed situations (similar to a driver new to a manual trans). An electric motor can conceivably smooth the output out tremendously by engaging before the engine fires.
 
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