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  TOV News > Honda Develops New Lightweight and Compact Hybrid System Named "SPORT HYBRID I-DCD" > > Re: More picture during the product presentation Honda HQ

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Stien Azani
Profile for Stien Azani
More picture during the product presentation Honda HQ [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2012 08:07
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http://paultan.org/2012/11/14/honda-unveils-new-sport-hybrid-intelligent-dual-clutch-drive-system-with-seven-speed-dct/

even though they are not Honda enthusiast blogger... but some of honda article is better over there
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: More picture during the product presentation Honda HQ [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2012 09:25
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Stien Azani wrote:
http://paultan.org/2012/11/14/honda-unveils-new-sport-hybrid-intelligent-dual-clutch-drive-system-with-seven-speed-dct/

even though they are not Honda enthusiast blogger... but some of honda article is better over there


Thanks for sharing, here are to me the two most important bits:



ntua.2002
Profile for ntua.2002
Re: More picture during the product presentation Honda HQ [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2012 11:57
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...is there any information concerning the 1.5 + i-DCD horsepower?
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: More picture during the product presentation Honda HQ [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-14-2012 21:08
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ntua.2002 wrote:

...is there any information concerning the 1.5 + i-DCD horsepower?


No, but you can made a fair estimate:
The Atkinson cycle 1.5l won't make much more than 100hp, maybe a bit less.
The motor is quoted as being 20kw.
Peak power for both won't match, so overall you are looking at something around 110 to 120hp peak.

Now, it'd be pointless to compare that figure with your typical NA slushbox car, because :
the DCT will ensure considerably more power reaches the wheels, and the 7 gears that the car is more responsive.
a 20kw electric motor makes a hell of as difference in a small car for everything but ultimate acceleration. 0-60 times won't break any records, but actual driving feel should be pretty close to a R20.

PS: I am assuming an Atkinson-only engine, like the one in the two-motor hybrid. If they use instead one of the dual-mode engines they announced with the original ED lineup you could easily add 10 to 20 hp, at which point we are talking top power could reach 130-140hp, which would make a hell of a next-Gen Fit hybrid RS...
Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: More picture during the product presentation Honda HQ [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 02:18
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The Accord plug-in e motor has about 120kw and the small Prius c: 45kw (it also has a 1.5) then this should be the range.

So Honda must give it more than 20kw, that quote doesn't sound right.
Not for a sport hybrid.

But a R20 in a Fit - yes please but manual.
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: More picture during the product presentation Honda HQ [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 09:05
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Fan Koni wrote:
The Accord plug-in e motor has about 120kw and the small Prius c: 45kw (it also has a 1.5) then this should be the range.

So Honda must give it more than 20kw, that quote doesn't sound right.
Not for a sport hybrid.

But a R20 in a Fit - yes please but manual.


I'm pretty sure that figure is accurate.
Some keep wanting Honda to become like Toyota, do like Toyota, they won't.
Some keep saying Toyota's approach is superior, but it doesn't matter.
Honda isn't pulling a Toyota, Honda is sticking to its way because, for sure, they believe is the right one (so have always I, and so do I).

The Aqua motor is huge because:
- Toyota's engine is giving a paltry 74PS peak power with 110Nm peak torque behind an e-CVT and what not, and
- it's a stand-alone motor designed to move the car around on its own from stand-still.

Honda's new PR may call it i-whatever, but the new system is yet another iteration of IMA, which builds on every previous-gen IMA. The motor itself is integrated within the transmission, designed to be light, compact, and cheap, to provide the best advantages of hybridization while minimizing the disadvantages (in terms of weight, packaging and cost). It won't be able to drive you like the Prius does, but I sure hope it will deliver amazing real world FE and enhanced (vs. previous IMAs) EV operation.
ntua.2002
Profile for ntua.2002
Re: More picture during the product presentation Honda HQ [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 11:18
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...dreaming of 1.5 ED (95Kw) + Electric Motor (20Kw) in next gen CR-Z... THAT would be a nice combo!

...thnx for the info!



Dimitris,
Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: More picture during the product presentation Honda HQ [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 18:57
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danielgr wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
The Accord plug-in e motor has about 120kw and the small Prius c: 45kw (it also has a 1.5) then this should be the range.

So Honda must give it more than 20kw, that quote doesn't sound right.
Not for a sport hybrid.

But a R20 in a Fit - yes please but manual.


I'm pretty sure that figure is accurate.
Some keep wanting Honda to become like Toyota, do like Toyota, they won't.
Some keep saying Toyota's approach is superior, but it doesn't matter.
Honda isn't pulling a Toyota, Honda is sticking to its way because, for sure, they believe is the right one (so have always I, and so do I).

The Aqua motor is huge because:
- Toyota's engine is giving a paltry 74PS peak power with 110Nm peak torque behind an e-CVT and what not, and
- it's a stand-alone motor designed to move the car around on its own from stand-still.

Honda's new PR may call it i-whatever, but the new system is yet another iteration of IMA, which builds on every previous-gen IMA. The motor itself is integrated within the transmission, designed to be light, compact, and cheap, to provide the best advantages of hybridization while minimizing the disadvantages (in terms of weight, packaging and cost). It won't be able to drive you like the Prius does, but I sure hope it will deliver amazing real world FE and enhanced (vs. previous IMAs) EV operation.



Well if Honda doubles KW from now 10 to 20 that is definitely a step.
I guess what they do to the torque of the e motor is more important. If it got a similar increase it would be great but ~150 NM could be too much.

That too would explain a change from CVT to DCT.

Added torque from the DI engine and e motor could well have been too much for a reasonable sized CVT.
Toyotas e motors have had a decrease in maximum torque over the prius generations.

IIRC the CR-Z MMC got a jump in Torque but only for the MT version.


Stien Azani
Profile for Stien Azani
Re: More picture during the product presentation Honda HQ [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-16-2012 01:35
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no matter what is the configuration output/power ... the new Fit, City, small CUV should certainly powerful enough.. since recently how convincingly Ito are on the new Fit ..

I like the idea of the e motor, either it's "put inside" the engine or "put inside" the gearbox/transmission to enhance the vehicle power ..you can have 2 trim, ie Fit (normal) and Fit RS (sport/powerful) but with identical engine...just put the bigger output power of e motor to differentiate both trim...and the brilliant things is: without effecting FE to much.

Btw, from photo slideshows, new Fit should maintain Magic Seat; since the battery pack is positioned after the lower back arm
DrWhiner
Profile for DrWhiner
Re: More picture during the product presentation Honda HQ [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-17-2012 15:46
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Fan Koni wrote:
IIRC the CR-Z MMC got a jump in Torque but only for the MT version.


IIRC not true.
 
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