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  TOV News > Honda Develops New Lightweight and Compact Hybrid System Named "SPORT HYBRID I-DCD" > > Re: And the Final Days of the Manual Transmission were upon us.

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S600=Dream
Profile for S600=Dream
And the Final Days of the Manual Transmission were upon us. [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 10:16
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So, I'm actually pretty pumped about this whole movement towards hybrid engines, to be honest.

I was hoping and praying that Honda wouldn't lock step and make a bunch of turbocharged engines that sucked at efficiency and at making useable power. This lineup of hybrid systems could be a proper game changer if they work correctly. It's almost as if Honda decided to nix using forced induction and has instead decided to use electricity to augment it's gasoline engines.

Either way, I don't see anything about manual transmissions, and that is a real bummer. Being able to row ones one gears is so gratifying, and there doesn't look like there's any room or a row-it-yourself gearbox in the new hybrid lineup.

I'm genuinely hoping that they bring the manual in with the NSX and then trickle that down to the rest of the inevitable hybrid lineup. If not, I'll be sad.
Inspire97
Profile for Inspire97
Re: And the Final Days of the Manual Transmission were upon us. [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 11:40
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S600=Dream wrote:
So, I'm actually pretty pumped about this whole movement towards hybrid engines, to be honest.

I was hoping and praying that Honda wouldn't lock step and make a bunch of turbocharged engines that sucked at efficiency and at making useable power. This lineup of hybrid systems could be a proper game changer if they work correctly. It's almost as if Honda decided to nix using forced induction and has instead decided to use electricity to augment it's gasoline engines.

Either way, I don't see anything about manual transmissions, and that is a real bummer. Being able to row ones one gears is so gratifying, and there doesn't look like there's any room or a row-it-yourself gearbox in the new hybrid lineup.

I'm genuinely hoping that they bring the manual in with the NSX and then trickle that down to the rest of the inevitable hybrid lineup. If not, I'll be sad.



Agreed. I think the CR-Z will be the last hybrid to be offered with a manual. Too bad, because it's quite fun to drive rowing your own in that car (my wife drives one)
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: And the Final Days of the Manual Transmission were upon us. [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 22:47
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S600=Dream wrote:
So, I'm actually pretty pumped about this whole movement towards hybrid engines, to be honest.

I was hoping and praying that Honda wouldn't lock step and make a bunch of turbocharged engines that sucked at efficiency and at making useable power. This lineup of hybrid systems could be a proper game changer if they work correctly. It's almost as if Honda decided to nix using forced induction and has instead decided to use electricity to augment it's gasoline engines.

Either way, I don't see anything about manual transmissions, and that is a real bummer. Being able to row ones one gears is so gratifying, and there doesn't look like there's any room or a row-it-yourself gearbox in the new hybrid lineup.

I'm genuinely hoping that they bring the manual in with the NSX and then trickle that down to the rest of the inevitable hybrid lineup. If not, I'll be sad.


I don't think an NSX (supercar) will have a manual, but without any more details I can't see why the one-motor system couldn't be done with an MT. You just have to give up on electric-only operation, just as the CR-Z currently does by giving up on the CVT and VCM.

Will Honda do it? Now that's a different matter altogether, but I sure hope they will.
Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: And the Final Days of the Manual Transmission were upon us. [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-12-2012 23:31
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I too hope Honda makes more MT hybrids, I hope they see the CR-Z as a proof of concept for a lot more out of the Fit family.
The Fit CUV needs to stand out, as well as the civic hatch.

In Europe, Latin America and many parts of Asia MTs are standard and getting entry priced / small cars with diesels to meet emissions is more and more difficult.

Honda must see potential here. I hope.
danielgr
Profile for danielgr
Re: And the Final Days of the Manual Transmission were upon us. [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2012 00:53
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Fan Koni wrote:
I too hope Honda makes more MT hybrids, I hope they see the CR-Z as a proof of concept for a lot more out of the Fit family.
The Fit CUV needs to stand out, as well as the civic hatch.

In Europe, Latin America and many parts of Asia MTs are standard and getting entry priced / small cars with diesels to meet emissions is more and more difficult.

Honda must see potential here. I hope.


problem is hybrids aren't entry level, so the appeal of MT hybrids is very limited. You just have to check out TOV, but basically most wanting an MT don't want a hybrid, and most wanting a hybrid don't want an MT.

Still, I do hope for my own sake that they keep bringing those like me presents like the CR-Z.
P54
Profile for P54
Re: And the Final Days of the Manual Transmission were upon us. [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2012 09:39
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2. Honda will use both dual-clutch and continuously variable transmissions

Honda has long used CVTs in fuel efficient vehicles and hybrids, and even in the new 2013 Honda Accord four-cylinder, yet the tech briefing showed several prototype hybrids with dual-clutch transmissions. So which transmission option will Honda use going forward? Both.

Honda maintains that CVTs are generally the better solution for all-out fuel economy, but recognizes that dual-clutch transmissions are much more fun to drive and sporty. Cars that are designed only with fuel economy in mind will continue to use CVTs, but premium and sportier vehicles will get dual-clutch setups.

“DCT is intended for sporty experience for vehicles,” Nonaka explained. “[It's] not just for hybrids, and can be combined with regular sportier gasoline engines.”





WongKN
Profile for WongKN
Re: And the Final Days of the Manual Transmission were upon us. [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-13-2012 10:15
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danielgr wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
I too hope Honda makes more MT hybrids, I hope they see the CR-Z as a proof of concept for a lot more out of the Fit family.
The Fit CUV needs to stand out, as well as the civic hatch.

In Europe, Latin America and many parts of Asia MTs are standard and getting entry priced / small cars with diesels to meet emissions is more and more difficult.

Honda must see potential here. I hope.


problem is hybrids aren't entry level, so the appeal of MT hybrids is very limited. You just have to check out TOV, but basically most wanting an MT don't want a hybrid, and most wanting a hybrid don't want an MT.

Still, I do hope for my own sake that they keep bringing those like me presents like the CR-Z.



I think the market forces will eventually be the one to decide and unfortunately, signs are it will gravitate towards slushboxes and at best, the dual clutch transmissions like this kind. The last time I had a chat with the chief Honda Malaysia product planner, very recently, it was about a manual Jazz/Fit for Malaysia. As it is, the regular 5AT Jazz/Fit is 'hardly moving', in Honda Malaysia's own words. So I was just throwing a suggestion that a manual Jazz/Fit might open up the market appeal, to the market whom are looking for 'entry level sports hatch', a market currently filled very capably by cars like the Suzuki Swift Sports (1.6 MT) and Proton's own Neo hatch backs. Alas, Honda Malaysia claims that market feedback tells them that a manual Jazz/Fit will not sell at all. Such is the realities of the market today. Perhaps internally they might have confidential discussions otherwise, but officially, their position is if there is a demand for an MT Honda, then they offer the CR-Z.
Fan Koni
Profile for Fan Koni
Re: And the Final Days of the Manual Transmission were upon us. [View News Item]    (Score: 1, Normal) 11-15-2012 03:27
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WongKN wrote:
danielgr wrote:
Fan Koni wrote:
I too hope Honda makes more MT hybrids, I hope they see the CR-Z as a proof of concept for a lot more out of the Fit family.
The Fit CUV needs to stand out, as well as the civic hatch.

In Europe, Latin America and many parts of Asia MTs are standard and getting entry priced / small cars with diesels to meet emissions is more and more difficult.

Honda must see potential here. I hope.


problem is hybrids aren't entry level, so the appeal of MT hybrids is very limited. You just have to check out TOV, but basically most wanting an MT don't want a hybrid, and most wanting a hybrid don't want an MT.

Still, I do hope for my own sake that they keep bringing those like me presents like the CR-Z.



I think the market forces will eventually be the one to decide and unfortunately, signs are it will gravitate towards slushboxes and at best, the dual clutch transmissions like this kind. The last time I had a chat with the chief Honda Malaysia product planner, very recently, it was about a manual Jazz/Fit for Malaysia. As it is, the regular 5AT Jazz/Fit is 'hardly moving', in Honda Malaysia's own words. So I was just throwing a suggestion that a manual Jazz/Fit might open up the market appeal, to the market whom are looking for 'entry level sports hatch', a market currently filled very capably by cars like the Suzuki Swift Sports (1.6 MT) and Proton's own Neo hatch backs. Alas, Honda Malaysia claims that market feedback tells them that a manual Jazz/Fit will not sell at all. Such is the realities of the market today. Perhaps internally they might have confidential discussions otherwise, but officially, their position is if there is a demand for an MT Honda, then they offer the CR-Z.



I think in the market for smaller cars MT will always play a strong role.
In the range from about Swift sports to around Focus ST.

Both better versions of still mainstream cars - no bias intended, I just want to remind every one needs some volume to offset smaller margins here.

Here Honda could stand out with a MT hybrid drive train.

A DCT will cost a lot more than a MT and adding hybrid can compensate a lack of engine performance (e.g. no turbo).
So Honda in its situation could offer something unique in that very competitive price range.

I mean a price range below extremes like CTR material and much more mainstream.
Like a MT diesel package and these are sold heaps.

Honda should add the drive train into the new Fit/Jazz platform, specially if they plan for many more versions to get younger people buying again.

Another CUV or another hatch with small NA or diesel engine with some smart phone connectivity isn't going to pull in the GEN Y to make them stick with a brand.
 
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