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RolledaNsx
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Proton gets Honda engines to use
and Honda gets to build their cars at the Proton Tanjung Malim factory
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Fan Koni
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That makes sense - I remember being unimpressed with the FE and with the power / engine size of the Protons on display.
Honda's own plant expansion in MY probably needs some extra time.
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RolledaNsx
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Use Proton's very very under capacity factory to get the 1.2L Bria to market faster than Honda building their own factory thats the plan.
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FiSH-Chan
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RolledaNsx wrote:
Proton gets Honda engines to use
and Honda gets to build their cars at the Proton Tanjung Malim factory
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Complete engine or just some major components? So is it that Honda will use the Proton plant to build Honda cars, or Honda engined Protons?
I suspect, and many others too but can't prove, many years ago Proton uses 'Mitsubishi engines' but the components are all locally made with cheaper material and stuff. That's why the engines konk out and shake violently after about 3 years and rust for no reason. I can't prove what I said, but our experience sure says that it seems very likely, otherwise how to explain it.
I hope that is not the case for the 'Honda engines'.
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Stien Azani
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RolledaNsx wrote:
Use Proton's very very under capacity factory to get the 1.2L Bria to market faster than Honda building their own factory thats the plan.
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What about re-badge model?.. do the new Proton model will get BRIO, or BRIO sedan in re-badge form?... if that true i need to postpone my plan to but the Perodua Myvi SE (Daihatsu Boon re-badge car)
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Stien Azani
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Proton gets Honda engines to use
and Honda gets to build their cars at the Proton Tanjung Malim factory
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Complete engine or just some major components? So is it that Honda will use the Proton plant to build Honda cars, or Honda engined Protons?
I suspect, and many others too but can't prove, many years ago Proton uses 'Mitsubishi engines' but the components are all locally made with cheaper material and stuff. That's why the engines konk out and shake violently after about 3 years and rust for no reason. I can't prove what I said, but our experience sure says that it seems very likely, otherwise how to explain it.
I hope that is not the case for the 'Honda engines'.
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please stop these mind-set ..it's only happen when the Proton was control the the Government (..under Dr Mahathir's regime) ..take note that DRB-Hicom do assemble ckd model for Mercedes benz, VW, Iveco, Isuze, Suzuki, yamaha motorcycle.. and also now Proton collaborate with Honda, notthe struggling company like Mitsubishi..
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FiSH-Chan
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Stien Azani wrote:
it's only happen when the Proton was control the the Government (..under Dr Mahathir's regime) ..take note that DRB-Hicom do assemble ckd model for Mercedes benz, VW, Iveco, Isuze, Suzuki, yamaha motorcycle.. and also now Proton collaborate with Honda, notthe struggling company like Mitsubishi.. |
Thank you for reminding me. Yes, there is some changes now but as you can imagine the disatisfaction is deep esp. experience through it.
I was thinking the same thing about the Brio, if it is 100% a Honda Brio then we should've waited instead of getting the Myvi as a second car. But it is an acceptable choice.
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Stien Azani
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
Stien Azani wrote:
it's only happen when the Proton was control the the Government (..under Dr Mahathir's regime) ..take note that DRB-Hicom do assemble ckd model for Mercedes benz, VW, Iveco, Isuze, Suzuki, yamaha motorcycle.. and also now Proton collaborate with Honda, notthe struggling company like Mitsubishi.. |
Thank you for reminding me. Yes, there is some changes now but as you can imagine the disatisfaction is deep esp. experience through it.
I was thinking the same thing about the Brio, if it is 100% a Honda Brio then we should've waited instead of getting the Myvi as a second car. But it is an acceptable choice.
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luckily i never own the Proton before..so maybe i can't "understand" your frustration... :)
Perodua need prepare the bullet jacket if the BRIO becoming the new Savvy...i've ride the Brio while i'm in thailand before..the headlight and grill is quite nice and sporty, the butt-end is quite unique...it's not ugly as seen in picture.. the interior material quite sucks...i think it's acceptable since it's cheap car...but the L12 is rocket pocket..very nice engine and it's suit in Brio platform
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RolledaNsx
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100 % Honda Brio
Proton gets Honda powertrains for letting Honda use Proton factory to build the Brio.
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Fan Koni
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Proton gets Honda engines to use
and Honda gets to build their cars at the Proton Tanjung Malim factory
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Complete engine or just some major components? So is it that Honda will use the Proton plant to build Honda cars, or Honda engined Protons?
I suspect, and many others too but can't prove, many years ago Proton uses 'Mitsubishi engines' but the components are all locally made with cheaper material and stuff. That's why the engines konk out and shake violently after about 3 years and rust for no reason. I can't prove what I said, but our experience sure says that it seems very likely, otherwise how to explain it.
I hope that is not the case for the 'Honda engines'.
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I would say Honda made R16/R18 engines should be built into Protons, the 1.6 Proton engines just can't compete.
Honda makes heaps of these globally and will bring the ED versions soon.
Proton can concentrate on other things.
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Stien Azani
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RolledaNsx wrote:
100 % Honda Brio
Proton gets Honda powertrains for letting Honda use Proton factory to build the Brio.
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Damn Nice!!!... currently i'm driving the 2009 Honda City, previosly driving the 1998 Civic Sedan (converted to B16A..a typical youngster in MY) ...if i'm cancelling my plan to buy the Myvi and opt for Proton ..technically i'm driving 3 Hondas..sweet
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Stien Azani
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Fan Koni wrote:
FiSH-Chan wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
Proton gets Honda engines to use
and Honda gets to build their cars at the Proton Tanjung Malim factory
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Complete engine or just some major components? So is it that Honda will use the Proton plant to build Honda cars, or Honda engined Protons?
I suspect, and many others too but can't prove, many years ago Proton uses 'Mitsubishi engines' but the components are all locally made with cheaper material and stuff. That's why the engines konk out and shake violently after about 3 years and rust for no reason. I can't prove what I said, but our experience sure says that it seems very likely, otherwise how to explain it.
I hope that is not the case for the 'Honda engines'.
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I would say Honda made R16/R18 engines should be built into Protons, the 1.6 Proton engines just can't compete.
Honda makes heaps of these globally and will bring the ED versions soon.
Proton can concentrate on other things.
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quite agree.. L/R series i VTEC SOHC engine doesn't long last in Honda line-up..they ditch the L series i VTEC SOHC for their new Earth Dream (even though ED engine retain the L, R as the code engine) .. it's the best opportunities for Proton the get those L series iVTEC SOHC line-up...
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RolledaNsx
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also this move is to block VW from buying Proton
VW wants those factories to build their cars
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Stien Azani
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RolledaNsx wrote:
also this move is to block VW from buying Proton
VW wants those factories to build their cars
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if VW get that Tanjung Malim Plant... then VW will become the largest European brand in SEA.. the capacity production for that plant easily able to supply in whole SEA region..that plant even filmed in mega factory/structure documentary film. ..
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FiSH-Chan
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Stien Azani wrote:
Luckily i never own the Proton before..so maybe i can't "understand" your frustration... :)
Perodua need prepare the bullet jacket if the BRIO becoming the new Savvy...i've ride the Brio while i'm in thailand before..the headlight and grill is quite nice and sporty, the butt-end is quite unique...it's not ugly as seen in picture.. the interior material quite sucks...i think it's acceptable since it's cheap car...but the L12 is rocket pocket..very nice engine and it's suit in Brio platform
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I'm so sorry for ranting but please skip to the last sentence if you don't want to read it..
It is heart breaking to see my friends or people I care about put their hard earn money on those cars, take a 7 or 9 year loan and then it starts to wear out just after a few years. For my experience Even though I and my family don't have Proton now, but plenty of people I care about still has those older Protons and I always worry about their safety when they go on trips or when my son goes along a ride with my in-laws or cousins to go places in their Protons. The last part is especially seriously frustrating as those cars are basically the same ones built in 1980s except with even more cost cutting. One of my family in-law constantly has to borrow money from us to fix their Proton (the loud exhuast model - I think you know which) because it is always having issue and the car is still under loan. Technically it is her own fault for getting such a long loan and bad financial management, but still, at least half of the problem would not be there if the car is at least slightly better.
I can't wait to see a Brio. I might want to test drive one, but probably won't be buying one anytime soon. You are right Perodua might see some *real* competition.
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Stien Azani
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
Stien Azani wrote:
Luckily i never own the Proton before..so maybe i can't "understand" your frustration... :)
Perodua need prepare the bullet jacket if the BRIO becoming the new Savvy...i've ride the Brio while i'm in thailand before..the headlight and grill is quite nice and sporty, the butt-end is quite unique...it's not ugly as seen in picture.. the interior material quite sucks...i think it's acceptable since it's cheap car...but the L12 is rocket pocket..very nice engine and it's suit in Brio platform
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I'm so sorry for ranting but please skip to the last sentence if you don't want to read it..
It is heart breaking to see my friends or people I care about put their hard earn money on those cars, take a 7 or 9 year loan and then it starts to wear out just after a few years. For my experience Even though I and my family don't have Proton now, but plenty of people I care about still has those older Protons and I always worry about their safety when they go on trips or when my son goes along a ride with my in-laws or cousins to go places in their Protons. The last part is especially seriously frustrating as those cars are basically the same ones built in 1980s except with even more cost cutting. One of my family in-law constantly has to borrow money from us to fix their Proton (the loud exhuast model - I think you know which) because it is always having issue and the car is still under loan. Technically it is her own fault for getting such a long loan and bad financial management, but still, at least half of the problem would not be there if the car is at least slightly better.
I can't wait to see a Brio. I might want to test drive one, but probably won't be buying one anytime soon. You are right Perodua might see some *real* competition.
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totallly agree..it's Dr M blood sucking regime are responsible for that.. and that's what they said "for Rakyat"... that's why i never buy a Proton.. i'd rather spend my Rm400 hard-earn money extra on monthly loan payment rather than driving the current proton..
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Fan Koni
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RolledaNsx wrote:
also this move is to block VW from buying Proton
VW wants those factories to build their cars
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Ah, thats interesting! Making more and more sense.
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WongKN
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I cannot comment too much on my personal opinions about Proton as I have good friends working inside so best to have a 'no-comments'.
Nevertheless, I have posted my 'guess' in Honda-Fan and I believe this joint venture is all about the Brio and perhaps nothing else. Ever since the Kuraishi-era (three CEOs before the current Ueno-san), Honda has been eyeing the mini-car market segment in Malaysia. That segment sales totals in the hundreds of thousands. Honda's annual sales now is barely hitting 50,000. Imagine how much they can gain if they can get a foothold into this segment. Toyota has shown the way by joint-venturing with Perodua to do the Myvi to tremendous success.
If you are Malaysian, you will know that the authorities 'disapproves' of any foreign manufacturer pricing their cars below RM60k. This below 60k price point is judged to be the exclusive domain of the local car manufacturers. While there is no -law- to prevent this, events in the past have happened where foreign manufacturers were 'taught' a lesson when they were brash enough to price their cars so low. Malaysians who remembers the original Hyundai Getz, or the Toyota Avanza, etc will also remember how these cars quickly increased in price after a short initial period of selling around the RM50-60k price range. The respective manufacturers were just levied an arbitrary 'administrative duty' because they were judged to have 'underdeclared' the cost of their car (of course since Hyundai for e.g. makes the Getz, no-one can prove the actual cost price of a Getz they declare in their AP was correct or not). This 'administrative duty' were all calculated to coincidentally increase the respective model's selling price to the RM70+k price point, thus bringing them out of contention with the Proton Gen2 (at that time).
So Honda smartly knows it is impossible to sell a Honda Brio here in Malaysia. So the best way is to have it re-badged as a local brand, Proton in this case. So what I expect will be a Honda Brio, with some cosmetic changes to make its exterior design 'localised', and then a reduction of content (probably Proton will break the Honda rule that all cars sold -must- have at lease ABS and dual-SRS, I expect the 'Proton Brio' will have only 1 or maybe no airbag), and a price point that will coincidentally be slightly lower than the Myvi.
Actually, the truth is that this can be good for the poor Malaysian public who can only afford cars in this segment because I have been told by friends in the media that Perodua have been steadily getting more and more arrogant of late, due to their total dominance of the mini-car market. So it is high time someone steps in to put them in their place and to even up the market a bit.
The insider news that the 'Proton Brio' will be made in Proton's Tanjung Malim factory is interesting and I don't discount that. But Honda's own plant expansion is actually slightly ahead of schedule. The new wing will be open by middle next year and will be in full operation by the end of next year. Technically, the current Pegoh Honda plant is not yet operating beyond capacity, just at near full capacity. For a fact, they do NOT operate 7 days a week and in fact are closed on alternate saturdays (I know because I have been in talks about another plant visit). The locally made Jazz Hybrid for e.g. will be launched slightly ahead of schedule, on the last 2nd last week of this month (I have the exact date but obviously can't tell), instead of next month.
I personally do -not- expect any Honda-Lotus cooperation. Or any cooperation beyond the Brio at this time. Remember Honda has big plans for the Brio, with the sedan about to come out and an SUV-variant coming soon. So Proton will have its hand full. Also, if you read the press release of the 'partnership', there is a sentence saying that Proton and Honda will jointly work on projects that -both have agreed to work on-, so one cannot force the other. Of course, we cannot discount those 'encouragements on the side' (i.e. like that administrative duty nonsense above).
Finally, to be very fair, I have noticed a lot of my local car journalist friends to have been getting more and more supportive of Proton in the last couple of years. Not sure if it is a push or pull factor, i.e. how much the supposed arrogance of Perodua has pushed journalists to support Proton, or is it Proton have truly improved to the point that they are winning over at least the local car media.
BTW, I have never attended a Proton media event so I am 'immune' and probably can claim an impartial opinion here. Also the fact that I have to serve through two ownerships of a Proton car, not that pleasant though not that much of a disaster like some of my friends.
As always, all these are just MHO.
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superchg2
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WongKN wrote:
So Honda smartly knows it is impossible to sell a Honda Brio here in Malaysia. So the best way is to have it re-badged as a local brand, Proton in this case. So what I expect will be a Honda Brio, with some cosmetic changes to make its exterior design 'localised', and then a reduction of content (probably Proton will break the Honda rule that all cars sold -must- have at lease ABS and dual-SRS, I expect the 'Proton Brio' will have only 1 or maybe no airbag), and a price point that will coincidentally be slightly lower than the Myvi.
Actually, the truth is that this can be good for the poor Malaysian public who can only afford cars in this segment because I have been told by friends in the media that Perodua have been steadily getting more and more arrogant of late, due to their total dominance of the mini-car market. So it is high time someone steps in to put them in their place and to even up the market a bit.
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Sounds like a good move for the Malaysian people.
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FiSH-Chan
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WongKN wrote:
So Honda smartly knows it is impossible to sell a Honda Brio here in Malaysia. So the best way is to have it re-badged as a local brand, Proton in this case. So what I expect will be a Honda Brio, with some cosmetic changes to make its exterior design 'localised', and then a reduction of content (probably Proton will break the Honda rule that all cars sold -must- have at lease ABS and dual-SRS, I expect the 'Proton Brio' will have only 1 or maybe no airbag), and a price point that will coincidentally be slightly lower than the Myvi.
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I thought it is now regulation all cars have dual airbag and 5 seat 3 point seatbelts. At least that was what I heard some time back. There is a common saying that in even the recent Protons, the passenger gets a hole in the dashboard so in event of accident they just stick their head into that hole and all will be well. But as I understand it, they must now have dual airbag for all cars. My wife's RM50K Myvi has dual airbags and even better - 3 point seat belts for the center rear seat, which even my City didn't have as a 2011 model (they only got it in the 2012 and MMC).
To be fair, and also to just to put it out there, the recent offering by Protons have improved by quite a lot over their old ones, but they still are not competitive enough compared to Korean or others.
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