BalIermd
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Looks like the ILX is indeed cannibalizing TSX sales, which has seen a -49% drop since last time this year, but this downward trend has only started in the last couple of months the ILX has been on sale. Why is the question. The TSX is well equipped in base form, sure it could use a little more power and isn't as nibble as the 1st gen. TSX but... I can't see choosing an ILX over a TSX even in base form.
What gives?
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A77
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More significant is that the TSX still beat the ILX and the ILXs sales were down on last month despite one extra selling day. And despite tons of (IMHO good) advertising. Acura must be pleased with RDX sales though. Neither outcome surprising me at all.
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NealX
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How can you tell that ILX is taking from TSX?
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TSX69
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I do wonder if Acura is limiting production/sales of the TSX to make room for the ILX & the whole made-in-Japan Yen-value thing ...
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A77
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TSX sales were up 25% in Canada - no mention of ILX in the press bulletin.
MARKHAM, ON, Nov. 1, 2012 /CNW/ - Combined October sales of 13,477 units by the Honda and Acura divisions of Honda Canada Inc. represented a 20% increase over last year's sales. The Honda Automobile Division reported October sales of 11,590 units, up 19% from last year, led by record sales of Honda Accord (up 178%), Crosstour (up 113%) Fit (192%) and Pilot (up 95%). The Acura Division reported October sales of 1,887 units, up 28% with strong sales of Acura RDX (up 46%), MDX (up 25%) and TSX (up 25%).
"We are extremely pleased that Canadians are strongly supporting our core model line-up. Newly introduced models are also gaining sales strength, including the all-new 2013 Honda Accord, recently named Best New Family Car under $30,000 by the Automobile Journalists Association of Canada." said Jerry Chenkin, executive vice president, Honda Canada Inc. "Sales of Pilot and RDX are already ramping up and breaking monthly sales records, in anticipation of the coming winter months."
SOURCE: Honda Canada Inc.
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aberabee
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Based on my recent shopping experiences, the ILX has a much stronger lease and offers a backup camera and keyless ignition without having to get the navigation. This combined with better gas mileage, similar acceleration, and nearly identical interior volume make it a strong contender and a TSX killer in my opinion.
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BalIermd
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Neal wrote:
How can you tell that ILX is taking from TSX?
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Well it's more so an assumption (a strong one). TSX sales were doing very well, even outpacing the TL for some time. Then all of a sudden when the ILX arrives and starts gaining each month, the TSX has a dramatic slide:
April
TSX 3,138 (at this point selling better than TL)
May
TSX 2,880 - (drops below TL)
ILX 168 (went on sale late in month)
June
TSX 2,602 -
ILX 1,081 +
July
TSX 1,980 -
ILX 1,410 +
Aug
TSX 2,103 +
ILX 1,733 +
Sept
TSX 1,681 -
ILX 1,737 +
Oct
TSX 1,577 -
ILX 1,529 -
Since the ILX has debated, with the exception of Aug. the TSX has continued to decline never making 3k + sales again. Meanwhile, the ILX has continued to gain except this month, as noted by someone else. Seems to be a trend to me. Looks like sales for both are about to level off though.
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Hondatalover
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But on the bright side, the Acura TSX comes with a V6, but only in Navi trim for the 2013+ models. And form the last "Whats New" form Acura, they said it would continue on, ONLY in the V6, fully loaded Navi trim. I guess thats to help get rid of ALL already made TSX's. So by making them all V6, nav units, leaving the K24Z to go into the ILX Manual, they use up all the resources and still offer a great platform with European quality with all the good tech, other than push-to-start and Pandora ect... TSX V6 hits 0-60 in 5.5 sec with the 5AT while weighing more. None of the ILX models can do that or will ever offer a v6.
I still think the TSX is a better deal, and would blow the competitors clear out if it at least got updated for its last model year with PBS(push button start) Pandora and keyless ect.. standard and a updated ED engine making 220hp and 190-lb-ft. The ILX doesn't represent a "Big expensive, luxury car" impression on me, seeing it both online and in person. I feel like Acura will be losing its entry level luxury winnings with the ILX. The TSX was well known and trusted, loved. RIP CU2 Chassis. :'(
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4thaccord
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New Accord came out in September, which also could be siphoning some sales from both, as some people will find the Honda a better proposition than both the ILX and TSX.
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Hondarulez
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4thaccord wrote:
New Accord came out in September, which also could be siphoning some sales from both, as some people will find the Honda a better proposition than both the ILX and TSX.
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Yea..for the same amount of money (ignoring any incentives), one can either get a base TSX ($30.5k), or an Accord EX-L V6. Also, for the price of a TSX Tech ($33.5k), you can get an Accord Touring with features that would embarrass the TSX Tech. And let's not get into the TSX V6 Tech which is at $39k .
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cksi1372
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BalIermd wrote:
Neal wrote:
How can you tell that ILX is taking from TSX?
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Well it's more so an assumption (a strong one). TSX sales were doing very well, even outpacing the TL for some time. Then all of a sudden when the ILX arrives and starts gaining each month, the TSX has a dramatic slide:
April
TSX 3,138 (at this point selling better than TL)
May
TSX 2,880 - (drops below TL)
ILX 168 (went on sale late in month)
June
TSX 2,602 -
ILX 1,081 +
July
TSX 1,980 -
ILX 1,410 +
Aug
TSX 2,103 +
ILX 1,733 +
Sept
TSX 1,681 -
ILX 1,737 +
Oct
TSX 1,577 -
ILX 1,529 -
Since the ILX has debated, with the exception of Aug. the TSX has continued to decline never making 3k + sales again. Meanwhile, the ILX has continued to gain except this month, as noted by someone else. Seems to be a trend to me. Looks like sales for both are about to level off though.
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Not saying you are completely wrong, but I think it has much more to do with availability. There are only 4323 TSX's in the US for both 2012 and 2013 models. I would also bet Acura is holding back on production to try and boost ILX numbers and because of the currency factor. This makes more sense to me than ILX cannibalization.
The ILX has seen sales decrease month over month and there are 9354 ILX's on the ground in the US. Anecdotally, I've seen very few, maybe 3, ILX's on the road here in the Northeast and I spend about 3 hours a day in the car on major roadways. I'm not sure why anyone would buy an ILX over a TSX or new Accord for that matter. ILX is a weak effort for Acura, IMO.
The RDX on the other hand...very nice.
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Colin
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TSX69 wrote:
I do wonder if Acura is limiting production/sales of the TSX to make room for the ILX & the whole made-in-Japan Yen-value thing ...
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They closed 2012 TSX production back in the summer and if I recall, there was a slight pause before they restarted 2013 production. This is not to say we're short on inventory. We've still got about 31 '12s on hand. FWIW, we sold about 26 ILXs in September, but only 9 in October.
My theory is that people are waiting till the Civic refresh comes out to make a decision. Whenever, things change dramatically, with no interuption in supply, I start looking around to see what else is on the horizon 'freezing' buyers. The Accord and Civic launches are probably playing a part in taking some attention. Also, IMO, the Accord is probably responsible for the lower TSX sales more than anything else.
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danielgr
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BalIermd wrote:
Neal wrote:
How can you tell that ILX is taking from TSX?
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Well it's more so an assumption (a strong one). TSX sales were doing very well, even outpacing the TL for some time. Then all of a sudden when the ILX arrives and starts gaining each month, the TSX has a dramatic slide:
April
TSX 3,138 (at this point selling better than TL)
May
TSX 2,880 - (drops below TL)
ILX 168 (went on sale late in month)
June
TSX 2,602 -
ILX 1,081 +
July
TSX 1,980 -
ILX 1,410 +
Aug
TSX 2,103 +
ILX 1,733 +
Sept
TSX 1,681 -
ILX 1,737 +
Oct
TSX 1,577 -
ILX 1,529 -
Since the ILX has debated, with the exception of Aug. the TSX has continued to decline never making 3k + sales again. Meanwhile, the ILX has continued to gain except this month, as noted by someone else. Seems to be a trend to me. Looks like sales for both are about to level off though.
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- Not all months are created equal... Some will always result in higher sales than others, regardless of model and maker. That is why sales changes are not compared vs. previous month but vs. the same month on a previous year; FTR October is one of the slowest selling months of the year.
- Not all types of cars sell equally throughough the year. Summer season and warmer months tend to privilege compact cars, whereas colder ones give an edge to SUVs and larger ones.
Now, here are ILX sales seen as "share of Honda sales", which already gets rid of the natural any-car fluctuation:
- Jun : 0.87%
- Jul : 1.21%
- Aug : 1.32%
- Sep : 1.48%
- Oct : 1.43%
You can see both a clear upwards trend first and a small drop in October. Wehther that is :
- the end of the trend, or
- a seasonal adjustment heading into winter, or
- linked to Superstrom Sandy effect
you'll have to wait for the following months to find out.
PS: Exports from Japan this year are likely to reach its lowest level in over a decade, even bellow 2009 crisis-driven figures. August and September exports were particularly low, at less than half the Jan-Jul average. Clearly, Honda doesn't want to sell cars made in Japan outside Japan right now.
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DCR
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danielgr wrote:
Now, here are ILX sales seen as "share of Honda sales", which already gets rid of the natural any-car fluctuation:
- Jun : 0.87%
- Jul : 1.21%
- Aug : 1.32%
- Sep : 1.48%
- Oct : 1.43%
You can see both a clear upwards trend first and a small drop in October. Wehther that is :
- the end of the trend, or
- a seasonal adjustment heading into winter, or
- linked to Superstrom Sandy effect
you'll have to wait for the following months to find out.
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What?
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VTECRacer
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danielgr wrote:
BalIermd wrote:
Neal wrote:
How can you tell that ILX is taking from TSX?
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Well it's more so an assumption (a strong one). TSX sales were doing very well, even outpacing the TL for some time. Then all of a sudden when the ILX arrives and starts gaining each month, the TSX has a dramatic slide:
April
TSX 3,138 (at this point selling better than TL)
May
TSX 2,880 - (drops below TL)
ILX 168 (went on sale late in month)
June
TSX 2,602 -
ILX 1,081 +
July
TSX 1,980 -
ILX 1,410 +
Aug
TSX 2,103 +
ILX 1,733 +
Sept
TSX 1,681 -
ILX 1,737 +
Oct
TSX 1,577 -
ILX 1,529 -
Since the ILX has debated, with the exception of Aug. the TSX has continued to decline never making 3k + sales again. Meanwhile, the ILX has continued to gain except this month, as noted by someone else. Seems to be a trend to me. Looks like sales for both are about to level off though.
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- Not all months are created equal... Some will always result in higher sales than others, regardless of model and maker. That is why sales changes are not compared vs. previous month but vs. the same month on a previous year; FTR October is one of the slowest selling months of the year.
- Not all types of cars sell equally throughough the year. Summer season and warmer months tend to privilege compact cars, whereas colder ones give an edge to SUVs and larger ones.
Now, here are ILX sales seen as "share of Honda sales", which already gets rid of the natural any-car fluctuation:
- Jun : 0.87%
- Jul : 1.21%
- Aug : 1.32%
- Sep : 1.48%
- Oct : 1.43%
You can see both a clear upwards trend first and a small drop in October. Wehther that is :
- the end of the trend, or
- a seasonal adjustment heading into winter, or
- linked to Superstrom Sandy effect
you'll have to wait for the following months to find out.
PS: Exports from Japan this year are likely to reach its lowest level in over a decade, even bellow 2009 crisis-driven figures. August and September exports were particularly low, at less than half the Jan-Jul average. Clearly, Honda doesn't want to sell cars made in Japan outside Japan right now.
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Thanks, Daniel. Reasonable explanation and makes sense.
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TonyEX
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Hondarulez wrote:
4thaccord wrote:
New Accord came out in September, which also could be siphoning some sales from both, as some people will find the Honda a better proposition than both the ILX and TSX.
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Yea..for the same amount of money (ignoring any incentives), one can either get a base TSX ($30.5k), or an Accord EX-L V6. Also, for the price of a TSX Tech ($33.5k), you can get an Accord Touring with features that would embarrass the TSX Tech. And let's not get into the TSX V6 Tech which is at $39k .
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ELS stereo.
Can't get that in ANY Honda.
QED.
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Hondarulez
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TonyE wrote:
Hondarulez wrote:
4thaccord wrote:
New Accord came out in September, which also could be siphoning some sales from both, as some people will find the Honda a better proposition than both the ILX and TSX.
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Yea..for the same amount of money (ignoring any incentives), one can either get a base TSX ($30.5k), or an Accord EX-L V6. Also, for the price of a TSX Tech ($33.5k), you can get an Accord Touring with features that would embarrass the TSX Tech. And let's not get into the TSX V6 Tech which is at $39k .
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ELS stereo.
Can't get that in ANY Honda.
QED.
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lol good call man, good call :)
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danielgr
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DCR wrote:
danielgr wrote:
Now, here are ILX sales seen as "share of Honda sales", which already gets rid of the natural any-car fluctuation:
- Jun : 0.87%
- Jul : 1.21%
- Aug : 1.32%
- Sep : 1.48%
- Oct : 1.43%
You can see both a clear upwards trend first and a small drop in October. Wehther that is :
- the end of the trend, or
- a seasonal adjustment heading into winter, or
- linked to Superstrom Sandy effect
you'll have to wait for the following months to find out.
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What? |
If you manage to explain me what exactly you failed to understand I could try to do it better.
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jero
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"Clearly, Honda doesn't want to sell cars made in Japan outside of Japan right now"
So... why are they still building and importing the TSX with 10,000 ILXs on the ground? And why are they still selling 3,700 Fits a month?
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Colin
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jero wrote:
"Clearly, Honda doesn't want to sell cars made in Japan outside of Japan right now"
So... why are they still building and importing the TSX with 10,000 ILXs on the ground? And why are they still selling 3,700 Fits a month?
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The more TSXs they sell, the more they lose. However, if they close the line entirely, all the workers promised 'lifetime employment' during the rise of the Japanese auto industry in the 80's probably still need to be paid while producing nothing.
I'm sure its a delicate balancing act with 3 balls in the air (with the 3rd being the dealer network needing product) until they can realign the production to sell ONLY NA produced cars in NA. Faced with two bad choices, what would you do?
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jero
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I'm sure it is a simple question with a complicated answer. I guess Honda is lucky in a sense that they at least have a couple made in japan models that are in demand enough that they are selling in the US.
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TonyEX
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A77 wrote:
TSX sales were up 25% in Canada - no mention of ILX in the press bulletin.
MARKHAM, ON, Nov. 1, 2012 /CNW/ - Combined October sales of 13,477 units by the Honda and Acura divisions of Honda Canada Inc. represented a 20% increase over last year's sales. The Honda Automobile Division reported October sales of 11,590 units, up 19% from last year, led by record sales of Honda Accord (up 178%), Crosstour (up 113%) Fit (192%) and Pilot (up 95%). The Acura Division reported October sales of 1,887 units, up 28% with strong sales of Acura RDX (up 46%), MDX (up 25%) and TSX (up 25%).
"We are extremely pleased that Canadians are strongly supporting our core model line-up. Newly introduced models are also gaining sales strength, including the all-new 2013 Honda Accord, recently named Best New Family Car under $30,000 by the Automobile Journalists Association of Canada." said Jerry Chenkin, executive vice president, Honda Canada Inc. "Sales of Pilot and RDX are already ramping up and breaking monthly sales records, in anticipation of the coming winter months."
SOURCE: Honda Canada Inc.
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Interesting point.
I guess HMC can afford to sell Japan made cars in Canada because the Yen to Looney ratio is good.
It's only the US Dollar and the Euro that have taken a trashing.
Which, of course, brings up an interesting aside, is AHM losing money selling Canadian built cars in the USA?
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danielgr
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jero wrote:
"Clearly, Honda doesn't want to sell cars made in Japan outside of Japan right now"
So... why are they still building and importing the TSX with 10,000 ILXs on the ground? And why are they still selling 3,700 Fits a month?
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| Honda keeps selling its money-losing exports in the United States partly to keep segments covered and retain customers. |
- past year, when NA production was suffering and its dealers had nothing to sell, earlier Japan recovery meant Honda was shipping more than the exchange rate situation would probably made it sensible to
- why since the introduction of the new Accord, normalization of the stock, and with the NA factories working at plain capacity, they are shipping less.
They want to sell as little as possible from Japan, but without losing their customer base in all the segments they consider important for the future. If losing money with a Fit today means they'll get a customer buying the next 5 generations money-making Fits, then that's a good lose. How much they can lose depend on many factors, including for example demand for such cars elsewhere, actual money loss, and Honda overall finances (which in the end dictate "how much can be lost"). For sure there is much more to it, but my work it's not at Honda and I don't have their data to judge.
We say in Spanish that "one something wants to listen few words are enough". I seriously doubt you actually want to, because I honestly don't know why did I need so many words to explain my previous sentence. It is I believe obvious that "in real life people and companies actions are not limited to what they want (in the short term)", sometimes "you have to" (when considering the long term).
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jero
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So... looking at your BOLD sentance, would you say that the hybrid customer base/segment not important for Honda's future plans in the US?
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danielgr
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jero wrote:
So... looking at your BOLD sentance, would you say that the hybrid customer base/segment not important for Honda's future plans in the US?
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Good hunt, and good luck !!!
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DrWhiner
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cksi1372 wrote:
Not saying you are completely wrong, but I think it has much more to do with availability. There are only 4323 TSX's in the US for both 2012 and 2013 models. I would also bet Acura is holding back on production to try and boost ILX numbers and because of the currency factor.
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I won't say there is a shortage of TSX. I think there are more than enough.
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jero
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So, you are saying I should decipher your clue that will show the path to what lies behind one of the sentances you wrote and to check out another post that you wrote in the past... I suggest you could just answer the question and enlighten us all. LMFAO
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S600=Dream
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How much was a new RSX when it came out? I'm trying to figure out where that car sat in the price panoply of Hondas and Acuras when it was released.
My one and only quibble with the ILX is that AHM didn't spend enough time getting the suspension *just right* like they did with the RSX and Civic Si. Ironic and more than a little annoying considering they're all almost the same car.
I remember the press absolutely gushing over the RSX-S' chassis when it hit the lots. If the ILX had that car's suspension sweetness, it'd be much better off.
In my memory, Hondas have always been passed off as delightful handling and a little underpowered. The ILX handles okay at best, and is more than a little underpowered. That's the crux of it, if you ask me.
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cksi1372
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DrWhiner wrote:
cksi1372 wrote:
Not saying you are completely wrong, but I think it has much more to do with availability. There are only 4323 TSX's in the US for both 2012 and 2013 models. I would also bet Acura is holding back on production to try and boost ILX numbers and because of the currency factor.
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I won't say there is a shortage of TSX. I think there are more than enough.
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That's fine, but I think the numbers clearly prove you're wrong. The bottom line is the ILX is still not selling like Acura thought it would and they are doing everything they can to "force" people to it anyway they can and away from the better value in the Acura lineup, the TSX, IMO. Let the excuses continue...
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jero
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The RSX-S was ~$23,500 with leather, 23/31 mpg, a 7,900 redline, 210hp thus 100+hp/liter.
I believe the regular RSX was right at $20k for 160hp.
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