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SwornAllegiance
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Hi all, been following TOV for at least a year now and finally decided to sign up to join the discussion. Just got a new 2013 Accord to park alongside my Acura TL. Loving it so far.
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hondadude
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Hey, congratulations on your new Accord! The 2013 Accord is DEFINITELY a huge winner for Honda! What color did you get? Hope you get a lot of happiness and joy from your new car!
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superchg2
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Congrats on your new Accord!
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Brutus
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Hee hee, we (technically my mom:-) who I helped out in finding a car and test driving) just picked up the same model, black with tan leather, got it at a smoking deal IMO. Anyone who is talking to dealers who are not budging much on price stretch your field out further, this is an Accord, not a new Ferrari, deals are out there..I drove 1 hour away for the best deal..but read further could have gotten it 5 minutes away if the dealer was not asleep. I got several quotes under invoice (including freight) and always make sure quotes include all fees (taxes are separate if any). In fact my local dealer who gave me some BS thing about not matching the price (I showed them proof) but hey we can work with you and get closer to the price...still 400 more but you need to take a car you do not want that was on the lot, and we will even work with you to get the car you want but you have to pay another 500, yeah right....well they later recanted after I sent a courtesy email back saying that was not interested in something unreasonable, was moving on. I get online this morning and low and behold and email from them saying oh we will now match the price, but you will have to put a larger deposit....well too late for them, had they said that when I approached them they would have sold me a car. I have my own business, and apparently I just do not understand the car business when stuff like this happens.
Bottomline folks, without too much work, I got the car I wanted at what I think is a great price (I waited less then a week, simple dealer swap, albeit the dealer has communication issues with their staff internally, so not that impressed on that side of things) and I had quotes mostly all under total invoice.
I have to say my 2004 TSX is looking aged next to the new Accord, still nothing beats those wheels, which I think are some of Honda/Acura's best looking standard wheels they have ever done. I got a serious itching for a new car, I am perfectly lined up for a TSX replacement next year which will not happen so if the supposed TLX is closer to TSX territory that might be the ticket...or maybe go the Hybrid route with the Accord...or maybe the ILX 6sp model if I like it (I really like the rear styling when I got caught behind one, but that is the extent of it). I think the Acura TSX was so perfect, it had the cachet of Acura, with the feel of Honda (for those of us who just feel right in a Honda), but with nice handling, sport and uniqueness. There are not a billion TSX's on the road, so nice to not drive and not always see your same car.
B.
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SwornAllegiance
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Yeah, I actually got mine for $1500 below MSRP. Mine is actually an EX-L w/ NAV CVT, Silver exterior/Gray interior. I never thought I'd get a gray interior, but Honda did such a great job with the mix of black, gray, and silver that it looked quite attractive. First time I've thought that about ANY car with gray leather.
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A77
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Brutus wrote:
Hee hee, we (technically my mom:-) who I helped out in finding a car and test driving) just picked up the same model, black with tan leather, got it at a smoking deal IMO. Anyone who is talking to dealers who are not budging much on price stretch your field out further, this is an Accord, not a new Ferrari, deals are out there..I drove 1 hour away for the best deal..but read further could have gotten it 5 minutes away if the dealer was not asleep. I got several quotes under invoice (including freight) and always make sure quotes include all fees (taxes are separate if any). In fact my local dealer who gave me some BS thing about not matching the price (I showed them proof) but hey we can work with you and get closer to the price...still 400 more but you need to take a car you do not want that was on the lot, and we will even work with you to get the car you want but you have to pay another 500, yeah right....well they later recanted after I sent a courtesy email back saying that was not interested in something unreasonable, was moving on. I get online this morning and low and behold and email from them saying oh we will now match the price, but you will have to put a larger deposit....well too late for them, had they said that when I approached them they would have sold me a car. I have my own business, and apparently I just do not understand the car business when stuff like this happens.
Bottomline folks, without too much work, I got the car I wanted at what I think is a great price (I waited less then a week, simple dealer swap, albeit the dealer has communication issues with their staff internally, so not that impressed on that side of things) and I had quotes mostly all under total invoice.
I have to say my 2004 TSX is looking aged next to the new Accord, still nothing beats those wheels, which I think are some of Honda/Acura's best looking standard wheels they have ever done. I got a serious itching for a new car, I am perfectly lined up for a TSX replacement next year which will not happen so if the supposed TLX is closer to TSX territory that might be the ticket...or maybe go the Hybrid route with the Accord...or maybe the ILX 6sp model if I like it (I really like the rear styling when I got caught behind one, but that is the extent of it). I think the Acura TSX was so perfect, it had the cachet of Acura, with the feel of Honda (for those of us who just feel right in a Honda), but with nice handling, sport and uniqueness. There are not a billion TSX's on the road, so nice to not drive and not always see your same car.
B.
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nothing personal - and good for you in getting a steal, but if I read you right you have your own business but you think they're being unreasonable for not being willing to sell to you under invoice - ie at a loss. Maybe I misread your post, but if everyone did this and if every business sold under invoice we'd all go broke. Would we not? The car business is indeed very strange. Even as an employee I can't buy for less than 2.5% over invoice.
congrats on your purchase btw.
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DCR
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A77 wrote:
nothing personal - and good for you in getting a steal, but if I read you right you have your own business but you think they're being unreasonable for not being willing to sell to you under invoice - ie at a loss. Maybe I misread your post, but if everyone did this and if every business sold under invoice we'd all go broke. Would we not? The car business is indeed very strange. Even as an employee I can't buy for less than 2.5% over invoice.
congrats on your purchase btw.
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Don't worry, because you also know that for every customer you have picking price to the bone like that, you will also have ones that pay MSRP with accessories and don't even bat an eyelash.
The service department will also make some money off of mom.
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A77
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DCR wrote:
A77 wrote:
nothing personal - and good for you in getting a steal, but if I read you right you have your own business but you think they're being unreasonable for not being willing to sell to you under invoice - ie at a loss. Maybe I misread your post, but if everyone did this and if every business sold under invoice we'd all go broke. Would we not? The car business is indeed very strange. Even as an employee I can't buy for less than 2.5% over invoice.
congrats on your purchase btw.
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Don't worry, because you also know that for every customer you have picking price to the bone like that, you will also have ones that pay MSRP with accessories and don't even bat an eyelash.
The service department will also make some money off of mom.
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Sadly it is very rarely like that these days as far as full price customers are concerned they are few and far between and not one this month so far; and with 6 competing dealers in the immediate area...but cars still aren't sold below invoice. There's only money to be made in service if the buying customer actually lives near enough. But for sure the way things are going the only department that can make money will be service. Which is a crazy state of affairs.
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siegen
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SwornAllegiance wrote:
Hi all, been following TOV for at least a year now and finally decided to sign up to join the discussion. Just got a new 2013 Accord to park alongside my Acura TL. Loving it so far.
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Congratulations on the new car!
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Brutus
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A77 wrote:
Brutus wrote:
Hee hee, we (technically my mom:-) who I helped out in finding a car and test driving) just picked up the same model, black with tan leather, got it at a smoking deal IMO. Anyone who is talking to dealers who are not budging much on price stretch your field out further, this is an Accord, not a new Ferrari, deals are out there..I drove 1 hour away for the best deal..but read further could have gotten it 5 minutes away if the dealer was not asleep. I got several quotes under invoice (including freight) and always make sure quotes include all fees (taxes are separate if any). In fact my local dealer who gave me some BS thing about not matching the price (I showed them proof) but hey we can work with you and get closer to the price...still 400 more but you need to take a car you do not want that was on the lot, and we will even work with you to get the car you want but you have to pay another 500, yeah right....well they later recanted after I sent a courtesy email back saying that was not interested in something unreasonable, was moving on. I get online this morning and low and behold and email from them saying oh we will now match the price, but you will have to put a larger deposit....well too late for them, had they said that when I approached them they would have sold me a car. I have my own business, and apparently I just do not understand the car business when stuff like this happens.
Bottomline folks, without too much work, I got the car I wanted at what I think is a great price (I waited less then a week, simple dealer swap, albeit the dealer has communication issues with their staff internally, so not that impressed on that side of things) and I had quotes mostly all under total invoice.
I have to say my 2004 TSX is looking aged next to the new Accord, still nothing beats those wheels, which I think are some of Honda/Acura's best looking standard wheels they have ever done. I got a serious itching for a new car, I am perfectly lined up for a TSX replacement next year which will not happen so if the supposed TLX is closer to TSX territory that might be the ticket...or maybe go the Hybrid route with the Accord...or maybe the ILX 6sp model if I like it (I really like the rear styling when I got caught behind one, but that is the extent of it). I think the Acura TSX was so perfect, it had the cachet of Acura, with the feel of Honda (for those of us who just feel right in a Honda), but with nice handling, sport and uniqueness. There are not a billion TSX's on the road, so nice to not drive and not always see your same car.
B.
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nothing personal - and good for you in getting a steal, but if I read you right you have your own business but you think they're being unreasonable for not being willing to sell to you under invoice - ie at a loss. Maybe I misread your post, but if everyone did this and if every business sold under invoice we'd all go broke. Would we not? The car business is indeed very strange. Even as an employee I can't buy for less than 2.5% over invoice.
congrats on your purchase btw.
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Yup you read it wrong. I will break it down since I was up half awake this morning, so probably a big garble.
1. They offered me a price not matching the price I had, which is perfectly fine, everyone needs to make a certain margin. I do not accept every offer I get on products, perfectly fine.
2. They then said well we not only will not match the price but we will go lower then our first price quote so we can get closer BUT you HAVE to take a car that is on the lot, EVEN though I specifically told them the color combo I wanted (they could not even do the exterior color, forget about the interior).
3. They also then said we can get you the right combo but it will cost you another 500 on top of the already higher price. I call that unreasonable, all the other dealers except 1, I talked to all had to get the car from somewhere else, no BS about charging more for that. They should have simply said sorry we cannot match that price but will give you our best price on the car you want which I have already located for you, and since we are closer for you and we offer blah blah blah, we hope to earn your business...how hard is that?..if they could have gotten the car quicker then the other dealership and were within a few hundred on the price but higher I would have gotten it from them.
4. Since I feel strongly about communicating when someone has taken the effort to quote me a price and such, I emailed back that I was not interested in their price...but oh no SUDDENLY they reply back that NOW they can do that price...we are not talking 2 months later when maybe something has changed in pricing, we are talking 3 days later.
Thus, this is what kills me about auto sales and I find unreasonable, you guys can defend all you want, but it is always some kind of crap. If they wanted my business in the first place, they would of done the deal they were clearly able to do in the first place and also not given some BS thing about different cars at different price, we are talking an EXL CVT, not some hard to find 6sp EX. I call that unreasonable, you do not want to get close to a price then fine I understand, but all this other crap just is annoying. Can't tell you how many times getting a straight answer about a price including any fees and dest. charges was from most dealerships, they all seem to be trying to sneak in shit. My buddy just bought a Subaru Imprezza, it was unbelievable how hard it was to get a straight answer, and most often then not in both my case and his, they did not stick to an email thread.
Even the dealership where we got the car, was trying to sell every little tiny accessory, fine but do you have to continue pushing every damn thing, having to say no 1/2 dozen times is annoying. Or promising they would get back to you and not about a vin number just so you can get stuff straightened out on your own end was frustrating.
Best experience I ever had was buying a TSX in 2003 from an Acura dealership in Foxboro, ma area before there were really any TSX's on the road. Got some online quotes, ordered the car from the guy with a respectable quote I guess maybe 1000 off msrp roughly, gave me the vin, told me when it came in and scheduled a pick up, drove about 1-1/2 hours, car was sitting there, handed the dude my bank funds, and drove home in my sweet ride. No pushy this or that, clear communication, easy quick pick up (maybe it took 45 minutes if that). It amuses me to no end the old let me talk to my manager still occurs, and the we will give you this for your trade in, oh no 2 days later actually we can give you this much more, or the constant attempt at mixing up prices to confuse what the actual purchase price is, and the trying to get to a certain amount in payments as basis for negotiation. Just give me the total price, simple and clean.
I did not buy from these guys but Weymouth Honda and their clear online Lease/finance calculator is just awesome, no funny business just straight forward and a rock solid price. If there is an Acura dealership who has a Lease calculator set up like them I am all over it.
B.
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Brutus
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What I do not understand is why isn't there a dealer just do a shopping cart type of thing, they could get rid of carrying a zillion sales guys and such, streamline the process, focus on customer service and car service, this helps costs and they can be aggressive on margins. You go to a site, pick the car you want it is at some good price and it to your cart and check out. Choose if need a test drive or not. You choose different types of financing or none and put a deposit down. The dealer then will send an email confirmation based on the timeframe for the car being available (have to order, dealer swap, on lot, whatever).
I will not be surprised to see this in the near future.
B.
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evped
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Great post Brutus! Good deals can always be had with simple patience. Seem the internet has closed the gap between knowledgeable buyers and unscrupulous dealers.
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A77
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I wish too we could see that - the trouble is that customers (believe me) would typically look at that - get the numbers then go to another dealer and ask them to beat it. Which they would.
Trouble for the dealers is there is so little money left int he actual car (partly due to diminished margins and partly due to self imposed competition), that they can only make money on car sales by selling all sorts of crap the buyer probably doesnt want/need. All the hyundai dealers here have an agreement not to discount. Makes life so much simpler (though if there's a trade in then it does still become a competition between who will offer most on the trade of course) Ultimately fairer for everybody as everyone pays the same price. Do consumers want that though?
When I bought my TSX I just got invoice off the internet felt it fair the dealer make nearly $1000 and made sure there were no hidden docs fees/lease agreement fees etc, nor any other un-needed protection options. car was in stock so no shipping fees for the dealer.
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Brutus
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"I wish too we could see that - the trouble is that customers (believe me) would typically look at that - get the numbers then go to another dealer and ask them to beat it. Which they would. "
But they are already doing that. People need to differentiate themselves, and this would do it, make the car buying process a ecommerce retail like experience. You would equal to a plain jane dealer have better margins since carrying less overhead. Plus you could figure out some value added delivery thing to a persons office or home. Maybe I should open up a dealership :-), dammit already have too much on my plate as it is.
B.
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Jet Sitter
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Since I only live 150 miles from where they build these cars, I should be able to go up there and pick it up and save the $790. delivery charge.
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xBeastx
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I'm getting jealous of all you guys buying the new 2013 Accord. When I'm an adult, I know I will be one of the people who buys revolutionary cars the first day they come out! That's why I actually try in school...
But why is everyone getting the EX-L trim? It sure seems really popular. Anyone on TOV buy the LX or Sport trim?
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siegen
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xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
But why is everyone getting the EX-L trim? It sure seems really popular. Anyone on TOV buy the LX or Sport trim?
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The EX-L is probably what is most widely available.
I have a Sport on order and there is at least one other person I've seen on here with one on order. Both 6MT, which aren't available until late November.
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xBeastx
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siegen wrote:
xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
But why is everyone getting the EX-L trim? It sure seems really popular. Anyone on TOV buy the LX or Sport trim?
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The EX-L is probably what is most widely available.
I have a Sport on order and there is at least one other person I've seen on here with one on order. Both 6MT, which aren't available until late November.
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Now that I take a close look at it, you're probably right. For fun, here are the number of each trim currently available at my local dealer:
LX - 9
Sport - 3
EX - 1
EX-L - 12 (including various combinations of navi's, coupes, and V6s)
Touring - 2
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DrWhiner
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Brutus wrote:
People need to differentiate themselves, and this would do it, make the car buying process a ecommerce retail like experience.
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Too bad cars can't be shipped by UPS or FedEx.
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KurtTappe
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Jet Sitter wrote:
Since I only live 150 miles from where they build these cars, I should be able to go up there and pick it up and save the $790. delivery charge.
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That's certainly a good point. No way if you live near Marysville you should be charged the same delivery as a buyer in California.
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Mechanic
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Gentlemen, think about this for a minute. If shipping charges for automobiles were not prorated nationally, the actual cost to ship a car from Marysville to San Diego or Seattle would be huge, and everyone and his brother would show up at the factory to save the shipping costs. Doubt that? Go to any car shipping webpage and see what they charge to ship a 3300 lbs. Accord across the country. $790 per car is a gift.
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MN_Runner
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Like any other forum, there are a few posts where people make up stories or experiences that are virtual and not real. People talk about getting $500 below the 2013 invoice - I would like to see the actual receipts and photos of the purchased cars. When a few individuals post fantastic stories or prices, people develop un-realistic view of what they should pay for the new car. I paid $100 over the invoice (whatever that means) but the trade in makes that value somewhat cloudy.
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rancho1
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Mechanic wrote:
Gentlemen, think about this for a minute. If shipping charges for automobiles were not prorated nationally, the actual cost to ship a car from Marysville to San Diego or Seattle would be huge, and everyone and his brother would show up at the factory to save the shipping costs. Doubt that? Go to any car shipping webpage and see what they charge to ship a 3300 lbs. Accord across the country. $790 per car is a gift.
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Not really.
Obviously, one person shipping one car is going to cost more per car than someone shipping a truckload of cars. A truckload of cars to San Diego will cost a fraction per car of what it would cost for someone to ship a single car to San Diego.
Even then, people in Ohio and neighboring states could get a car shipped to them for less than $790.
It is no "gift."
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rancho1
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Also, I think the destination charge is really just part of the cost of producing the car and automakers itemize it out as a separate charge for marketing reasons.
The auto manufactures list a MSRP in big print with an asterisk and small print at the bottom of the page/screen disclosing the mandatory destination charge.
Auto dealers do the same in their ads.
It's sleazy.
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Brutus
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MN_Runner wrote:
Like any other forum, there are a few posts where people make up stories or experiences that are virtual and not real. People talk about getting $500 below the 2013 invoice - I would like to see the actual receipts and photos of the purchased cars. When a few individuals post fantastic stories or prices, people develop un-realistic view of what they should pay for the new car. I paid $100 over the invoice (whatever that means) but the trade in makes that value somewhat cloudy.
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I feel like you are directed this towards me I can assure you we paid 25,500 including everything accord exl (we do not pay tax in our state), and we got the car we wanted. Whether you choose to believe that or not is up to you, but not sure why people would make prices up, to what benefit. I am sure someone has a better price than what we got, but very happy with what we have, seemed like a very fair deal for this type of car. Happy Thanksgiving to those that care.
B.
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A77
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rancho1 wrote:
Also, I think the destination charge is really just part of the cost of producing the car and automakers itemize it out as a separate charge for marketing reasons.
The auto manufactures list a MSRP in big print with an asterisk and small print at the bottom of the page/screen disclosing the mandatory destination charge.
Auto dealers do the same in their ads.
It's sleazy.
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It is sleazy and governments should stop it - just as they have in Europe and Australia. Its a mandatory charge - it should not therefore be separated, unless you have the option to collect from the factory...which apart from some euro manufacturers (Volvo and mercedes?), you can't.
Of the $1500 every manufacturer in Canada charges, a portion is not for freight it is kept by the dealer to cover PDI, full tank of Gas, etc. Obviosuly the actual shipping chrge to Honda canada from CP rail and all the trucking companies varies enormously. To ship a car privately from Ontario, where Honda's factory is, to here in Alberta costs at least $1000. We have done it many times. Most destinations from the factory in Canada probably mean more profit for Honda, but what about cars shipped from Japan to say Toronto....the shipping charge on a Fit is the lowest of any Honda, and in this instance must be many many times the cost of getting a CRV from Alliston to Toronto...but the CRV has a bigger charge.
Simpler as I say if the whole freight malarkey was scrapped/banned.
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xBeastx
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A77 wrote:
rancho1 wrote:
Also, I think the destination charge is really just part of the cost of producing the car and automakers itemize it out as a separate charge for marketing reasons.
The auto manufactures list a MSRP in big print with an asterisk and small print at the bottom of the page/screen disclosing the mandatory destination charge.
Auto dealers do the same in their ads.
It's sleazy.
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Its a mandatory charge - it should not therefore be separated, unless you have the option to collect from the factory...which apart from some euro manufacturers (Volvo and mercedes?), you can't.
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I think you can pick up a custom X3, X5, or X6 at BMW's factory in North America also. Not sure if the X1 is made there yet.
http://www.bmwusfactory.com/
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