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6Speeds
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Proud new owner of a certified 2011 Forged Silver Metallic TSX Sport Wagon with Tech Package. Cheers to my fellow wagoneers Jeff and TonyE!
I bought it as a used dealer loaner, and as such, the powertrain warranty has been extended to 100k -- what a nice machine. It replaces our '97 Accord Wagon with 215K miles -- about time, I know, but that's why I buy Honda/Acura, not to best Bimmers or Audis. I guess I could be concerned about the number of hooligans that drove this car as a loaner from the dealership, but with only 5500 on the odometer, I'm not too worried. It isn't even broken-in for me ;)
Apparantly, the silver (baby blue as the salesman kept calling it) isn't a very popular color, but my wife and I love it. It seems to change color with the sky... from true silver, to light blue, to an almost ultraviolet color when overcast outside -- very cool. It reminds me of the silver on the last gen Prelude...
It will be many weeks of learning all the ins and outs of the modern MID, Bluetooth, and navi systems for me. I'm literate for Acura products up to my '03 CL-S 6MT Navi which I'm keeping, but these newer systems are pretty overstimulating! Any ideas as to what "Title information is acquired" means at start-up? Perhaps I need to subscribe for Serious XM?
Enough boasting :) Just excited for the next 15 years of good Acura reliability and fun-to-drive experiences...
-JG
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xBeastx
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6Speeds wrote:
Proud new owner of a certified 2011 Forged Silver Metallic TSX Sport Wagon with Tech Package. Cheers to my fellow wagoneers Jeff and TonyE!
I bought it as a used dealer loaner, and as such, the powertrain warranty has been extended to 100k -- what a nice machine. It replaces our '97 Accord Wagon with 215K miles -- about time, I know, but that's why I buy Honda/Acura, not to best Bimmers or Audis. I guess I could be concerned about the number of hooligans that drove this car as a loaner from the dealership, but with only 5500 on the odometer, I'm not too worried. It isn't even broken-in for me ;)
Apparantly, the silver (baby blue as the salesman kept calling it) isn't a very popular color, but my wife and I love it. It seems to change color with the sky... from true silver, to light blue, to an almost ultraviolet color when overcast outside -- very cool. It reminds me of the silver on the last gen Prelude...
It will be many weeks of learning all the ins and outs of the modern MID, Bluetooth, and navi systems for me. I'm literate for Acura products up to my '03 CL-S 6MT Navi which I'm keeping, but these newer systems are pretty overstimulating! Any ideas as to what "Title information is acquired" means at start-up? Perhaps I need to subscribe for Serious XM?
Enough boasting :) Just excited for the next 15 years of good Acura reliability and fun-to-drive experiences...
-JG
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You must have become tired waiting for a new Honda wagon to finally show up! ;)
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XDreammachineX
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6Speeds wrote:
Proud new owner of a certified 2011 Forged Silver Metallic TSX Sport Wagon with Tech Package.
I bought it as a used dealer loaner, and as such, the powertrain warranty has been extended to 100k -- what a nice machine. It replaces our '97 Accord Wagon with 215K miles -- about time, I know, but that's why I buy Honda/Acura, not to best Bimmers or Audis.
-JG
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May I ask how much you paid for yours? Was looking at the TSX wagon, but sort of ruled it out as out of my price range (didn't consider used ones). Looked at the Crosstour, but ruled it out as not fuel efficient enough. With rumors flying about TSX's production ending, perhaps it would be worth looking at the wagon again, second hand or not.
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Edward
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Well, I think you should hurry to get one before 2013 production year ends..and somehow, I feel it will be a short one.
Unless TLX wagon will come up, with SH-SHAWD in 2013 or 2014.. When are we going to find this out? LA Auto Show?!
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superchg2
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Edward wrote:
Unless TLX wagon will come up, with SH-SHAWD in 2013 or 2014..
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Edward
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Well, I thought somebody in the forum mentioned about possible estate vesion of TLX coming in the future. In any case, we just have to wait and see.
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TonyEX
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I think that's the XM.
My wife let it lapse, which was a mistake because a lot of the functionality of the Navi relies on it: traffic, weather, Grateful Dead on XM....
It's very useful for rerouting around traffic jams like in the middle of nowhere when Oregon or Washington are in their "road construction season"... the other season, of course, being "rain season".
I keep telling her to renew it.
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6Speeds
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It was less than $30K, and I've seen others listed from $28-32K depending on the year and packaging. I think the color I chose is in lesser demand, and I had been keeping an eye on this particular TSX for a few months which no one seemed to be bidding on...
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Sparky
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If wagons are such a hard sell here in the US and Honda stopped offering any true wagons after 1997 (the Accord Wagon), why did they decide to offer the TSX Sportwagon (ROW Accord Tourer) here? What was the business case for offering a TSX Sportwagon? Excess capacity? Profiting from a rather small niche in the US? Testing the market for future wagon desirability?
Just makes me wonder why Honda would drag the Accord Tourer over here from Japan for a rather short time 2011-2013, knowing all along that it would be dropped when the Global Accord platform came out. Will the new Global Accord have a wagon offered anywhere in the world? If there is one, what are the odds of it making it to our shores?
We owned a 97 Accord Wagon (4 cyl AT) and we liked it for its versatility a lot. I can remember hauling an upright freezer to the dump inside the wagon with the rear seats folded and the rear batch completely closed. You have seen the look on the guys face at the dump when the Accord Wagon disgorged a complete upright freezer from the back end. Good car, although I felt it always could have used either a 5spd manual withe 4c or a 6cyl with the auto box.
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TonyEX
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Sparky wrote:
If wagons are such a hard sell here in the US and Honda stopped offering any true wagons after 1997 (the Accord Wagon), why did they decide to offer the TSX Sportwagon (ROW Accord Tourer) here? What was the business case for offering a TSX Sportwagon? Excess capacity? Profiting from a rather small niche in the US? Testing the market for future wagon desirability?
Just makes me wonder why Honda would drag the Accord Tourer over here from Japan for a rather short time 2011-2013, knowing all along that it would be dropped when the Global Accord platform came out. Will the new Global Accord have a wagon offered anywhere in the world? If there is one, what are the odds of it making it to our shores?
We owned a 97 Accord Wagon (4 cyl AT) and we liked it for its versatility a lot. I can remember hauling an upright freezer to the dump inside the wagon with the rear seats folded and the rear batch completely closed. You have seen the look on the guys face at the dump when the Accord Wagon disgorged a complete upright freezer from the back end. Good car, although I felt it always could have used either a 5spd manual withe 4c or a 6cyl with the auto box.
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(1) Yep, the only reason we didn't get an Accord Wagon was because it did not offer the I4/MT5 nor V6/AT4 combinations.
Although, truth be told, we rented a first gen Odyssey and it ran quite well. Not the most powerful car in the world but it'd do 80 on the freeway with no issues.
(2) Perhaps the TSX wagon is seen as a niche vehicle and since Acura is sort of a niche manufacturer, AHM felt that a yearly run rate of 4000 wagons was fine. I doubt they expected what our Federal Reserve has done to the value of the dollar. Likely AHM felt they could make money on Japan built cars when they made the decision to bring it in.
(3) I wonder what will happen with the wagon. I'd hope that AHM decides to keep building a US spec TSX with wagon. The ILX is just not there and a TL Wagon would be very expensive.
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JeffX
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TonyE wrote:
Sparky wrote:
If wagons are such a hard sell here in the US and Honda stopped offering any true wagons after 1997 (the Accord Wagon), why did they decide to offer the TSX Sportwagon (ROW Accord Tourer) here? What was the business case for offering a TSX Sportwagon? Excess capacity? Profiting from a rather small niche in the US? Testing the market for future wagon desirability?
Just makes me wonder why Honda would drag the Accord Tourer over here from Japan for a rather short time 2011-2013, knowing all along that it would be dropped when the Global Accord platform came out. Will the new Global Accord have a wagon offered anywhere in the world? If there is one, what are the odds of it making it to our shores?
We owned a 97 Accord Wagon (4 cyl AT) and we liked it for its versatility a lot. I can remember hauling an upright freezer to the dump inside the wagon with the rear seats folded and the rear batch completely closed. You have seen the look on the guys face at the dump when the Accord Wagon disgorged a complete upright freezer from the back end. Good car, although I felt it always could have used either a 5spd manual withe 4c or a 6cyl with the auto box.
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(1) Yep, the only reason we didn't get an Accord Wagon was because it did not offer the I4/MT5 nor V6/AT4 combinations.
Although, truth be told, we rented a first gen Odyssey and it ran quite well. Not the most powerful car in the world but it'd do 80 on the freeway with no issues.
(2) Perhaps the TSX wagon is seen as a niche vehicle and since Acura is sort of a niche manufacturer, AHM felt that a yearly run rate of 4000 wagons was fine. I doubt they expected what our Federal Reserve has done to the value of the dollar. Likely AHM felt they could make money on Japan built cars when they made the decision to bring it in.
(3) I wonder what will happen with the wagon. I'd hope that AHM decides to keep building a US spec TSX with wagon. The ILX is just not there and a TL Wagon would be very expensive.
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MSRPs aside, I bet the TSX costs AHM as much (or possibly more) to procure as the TL. To me the TSX seems to be built to a higher standard though some of the finishing is superior on the TL.
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Fan Koni
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The TSX wagon was introduced to Europe in 2008 as an Accord.
I think that low sales in Europe and over capacity in Japan made the case easy for Acura two years later.
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6Speeds
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I'd say there are a myriad of reasons to bring the TSX Wagon to the US all of which listed above are true. America still represents one of the largest consumer markets in the world, and tastes and trends change so frequently, the TSX Wagon most likely represents an experiment in American future tastes.
Frankly, I think it would be hell in any car company to be product planner right now. With a douple-dip recession more than likely (despite who's elected and TonyE's correct accusation of the Fed), how could you possibly anticipate what's going to sell in 3 years (the usual cycle of drawing board-to-production)? We bought the TSX Wagon solely to replace our '97 Accord Wagon, and both my wife and I prefer the lower ride height and economy it offers. I realize that our preferences are likely not mainstream, but this particular product was exactly what we were looking for.
Consider the unusual product offerings as of late -- the ZDX represents glutony in my opinion (relatively useless and uneconomical). The extended cycle of the current RL, despite being a very well-built car, represents Acura's inability to make a long-term stategy, and the ILX is practically still-born.
The middle road at this time, despite all of our frustrations with similar decisions in the past, is probably best for Acura at this point. Smart Luxury -- sort of spells it out for the time being. That being said, I hope the Wagon continues in some form and not as the progenitor of the new RDX...
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Grace141
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I've been thinking of the true cost to Honda for offering the TSX wagon in the US and I've found the question difficult. The Accord wagon is sold elsewhere. The parts which differ the TSX from the non-US Accord are easily transferable. The Accord and TSX sedans and wagons are assembled in the same factory, right? Are we simply talking about the costs for Honda being securing enough transportation volume to ship the TSX wagon from the factory to the ship, on the ship to the US, and from the dock through the network? In the view of transporting the cars the sedan and wagon are identical. As product tests go this was pretty easy.
Didn't Acura say they wanted to sell 1500 wagons each year? That volume at the current transaction prices must certainly cover the costs of supporting the car through the sales network.
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vh2k
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Accord is built in Ohio. TSX is built in Japan. With the currency exchange rates, this substantially impacts profitability when shipping and selling TSX in the U.S. For example, it is widely known that Honda loses money on every CR-Z sold in the U.S.
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typer_801
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I don't believe so.....when I spoke with a local Acura dealer GM ~2 months he stated he was recently told by a corporate Honda/Acura resource they lose $2500 for every TSX sold. Not the dealers, but Honda itself loses that much money. Currency is the culprit, so you can imagine why they view the ILX as so important and are pushing for it as the replacement of the TSX even if the dealers don't percieve it as a comparable vehicle.
Regardless, the TSX appears to be much the same situation as the other Japanese exported Honda's to the US (Fit, CR-Z) which HOnda has already indicated they lose money on here.
Supporting this is the 2013 price increases on the TSX of $500....quite a bit more than any other car in the lineup. Think about all the enhancement the 2013 Accord recieved and it went up ~$200. TSX recieved nothing and went up 2.5x that amount.
Grace141 wrote:
I've been thinking of the true cost to Honda for offering the TSX wagon in the US and I've found the question difficult. The Accord wagon is sold elsewhere. The parts which differ the TSX from the non-US Accord are easily transferable. The Accord and TSX sedans and wagons are assembled in the same factory, right? Are we simply talking about the costs for Honda being securing enough transportation volume to ship the TSX wagon from the factory to the ship, on the ship to the US, and from the dock through the network? In the view of transporting the cars the sedan and wagon are identical. As product tests go this was pretty easy.
Didn't Acura say they wanted to sell 1500 wagons each year? That volume at the current transaction prices must certainly cover the costs of supporting the car through the sales network.
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Bullwinkle
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Honda loses money on every car imported from Japan to the US, TSX included.
With the new gen Accord, isn't Honda going to stop making Accords in Japan?
And since the US Accord is now the same size as the international accord, don't we all expect the TSX and TL to be "combined". They are not going to coexist. That can't happen.
What I expect is that there will be an ILX tourer, possibly high performance only. When you look at one, it is clear the car is designed for that.
In fact I will go out on a limb and predict that the TSX and TL are replace by a TLX in the next year timeframe, and that there will be a ILX Tourer about the time dealers run out of TSX wagons.
I am said about this, because I think the TSX wagon is one of the most successful designs Honda has, from an aesthetic standpoint.
On the other hand, I was looking at a TSX Wagon side by side with an ILX, and an ILX wagon could be almost as striking.
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superchg2
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typer_801 wrote:
Currency is the culprit, so you can imagine why they view the ILX as so important and are pushing for it as the replacement of the TSX even if the dealers don't percieve it as a comparable vehicle.
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I guess Acura really does have dain bramage.
Otherwise, if they view the ILX as so darned important, why didn't they put in the 2.4 as standard, along with an automatic and don't even waste everybody's time with the eco-wienie $35K hybrid.
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DrWhiner
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Bullwinkle wrote:
With the new gen Accord, isn't Honda going to stop making Accords in Japan?
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There were rumours that ROW Accord would continue in DM for some time.
It can easily survive a few more years if Honda give it the 1.6L i-DTEC ED diesel engine.
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Sparky
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Okay, here’s what I’m thinking …..
The TSX Sportwagon is made in Japan. Honda loses ~$2.5K+ for every one they export to the US due to costs of exporting and the effects of currency fluctuations. They lost on that bet. They brought them here due to excess capacity and low sales in other world markets. Did Honda move enough TSX Sportwagons in the US to warrant offering a future wagon? Or was the TSX Sportwagon offering here in the US just Honda’s version of a fire-sale; just to clear out the warehouse. Will we see a wagon based off of the new Global Accord platform? Would it be an Accord or a TLX wagon? If it’s built in the US, it would eliminate the import/currency costs, so they wouldn’t lose money on every one they make. I’m just wondering if Honda is going to look past the financial loss on the TSX Sportwagon. Will they see enough demand to warrant building a wagon off the Global Accord? Will other world markets get a Global Accord tourer model?
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Sparky
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One for the suggestion box at Honda….
Kill the Crosstour and divert the time, energy and funds into an Accord/TLX wagon. No hatchbacks, no liftbacks, no cam-backs, no backpacks; I want a flat, long roof wagon. Make it roomy and practical. No massive tumblehome, no aggressively sloped rear window. I liked the form of the 2005 Passat Wagon.
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Mikeydred
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Sparky wrote:
Okay, here’s what I’m thinking …..
The TSX Sportwagon is made in Japan. Honda loses ~$2.5K+ for every one they export to the US due to costs of exporting and the effects of currency fluctuations. They lost on that bet. They brought them here due to excess capacity and low sales in other world markets. Did Honda move enough TSX Sportwagons in the US to warrant offering a future wagon? Or was the TSX Sportwagon offering here in the US just Honda’s version of a fire-sale; just to clear out the warehouse. Will we see a wagon based off of the new Global Accord platform? Would it be an Accord or a TLX wagon? If it’s built in the US, it would eliminated the import/currency costs, so they wouldn’t lose money on every one they make. I’m just wondering if Honda is going to look past the financial loss on the TSX Sportwagon. Will they see enough demand to warrant building a wagon off the Global Accord? Will other world markets get a Global Accord tourer model?
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Ito already confirmed in his September speech the next Accord wagon will be built in the US. Maybe we will get a TLX tourer or the TSX name stays in wagon and two door form, but the Crosstour seems to be here to stay as Ito sees it as a potential success.
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vh2k
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Bullwinkle wrote:
With the new gen Accord, isn't Honda going to stop making Accords in Japan?
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New 9G Accords will be assembled in Sayama, Japan. Hybrids should all be from Japan.
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Edward
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Mikeydred wrote:
Sparky wrote:
Okay, here’s what I’m thinking …..
The TSX Sportwagon is made in Japan. Honda loses ~$2.5K+ for every one they export to the US due to costs of exporting and the effects of currency fluctuations. They lost on that bet. They brought them here due to excess capacity and low sales in other world markets. Did Honda move enough TSX Sportwagons in the US to warrant offering a future wagon? Or was the TSX Sportwagon offering here in the US just Honda’s version of a fire-sale; just to clear out the warehouse. Will we see a wagon based off of the new Global Accord platform? Would it be an Accord or a TLX wagon? If it’s built in the US, it would eliminated the import/currency costs, so they wouldn’t lose money on every one they make. I’m just wondering if Honda is going to look past the financial loss on the TSX Sportwagon. Will they see enough demand to warrant building a wagon off the Global Accord? Will other world markets get a Global Accord tourer model?
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Ito already confirmed in his September speech the next Accord wagon will be built in the US. Maybe we will get a TLX tourer or the TSX name stays in wagon and two door form, but the Crosstour seems to be here to stay as Ito sees it as a potential success.
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Can you guess when new Wagons are coming? 2014?
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A77
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Whether or not Honda really loses money on every TSX sold depends how you account for the manufacturing cost and how much else is factored in. As I have said before Mazda 3s are all built in japan and it is the company biggest seller. It sells for as little as $16,000 - near half a TSX and cannot possibly cost half as much to make. Sure Mazda is making a loss but given the same accounting principals as Honda is using, the company would have perished long ago. I don't deny currency changes have caused the car to be way less profitable. But you can be sure that the income they get from the TSX well exceeds actual manufacturing and distribution cost - so even if it is losing $2500 once everything is factored in - it is still making money on each one sold. IMHO.
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xBeastx
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I think Honda should bring the upcoming Civic Wagon to America as an Acura model. Possibly call it the ILX Tourer, even though the two vehicles probably aren't related. That seems like the best route at this point.
Also, the Crosstour should go to the grave with the ZDX and be replaced by a true Honda wagon based of the new international Accord.
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xBeastx
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*off
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TonyEX
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Sparky wrote:
One for the suggestion box at Honda….
Kill the Crosstour and divert the time, energy and funds into an Accord/TLX wagon. No hatchbacks, no liftbacks, no cam-backs, no backpacks; I want a flat, long roof wagon. Make it roomy and practical. No massive tumblehome, no aggressively sloped rear window. I liked the form of the 2005 Passat Wagon.
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I'd prefer the tuning of the TSX but I like the rear leg room of the Accord....
A compromise would be to make a short wheelbase Accord, no more than a two inch chop -need to preserve the kneeroom- then make the wagon with a fore-back sliding seat that can stretch back two inches to regain the rear leg room.
Then, of course, add the suspension tuning and all the niceties of the Acura line.
Engine wise... I'd forego the V6, but I guess they need it for marketing. Me? I'd take a premium gas tuned K24W with the MT6, 220 bhp and 200 ft/lbs. I'd settle for the CVT and paddle shifters... though... :-(
Oh, perhaps add AWD too? ;-D
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typer_801
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Ridiculous logic, even if you lose money, you still make money.
Since you brought up Mazda....they lost $1.3 billion dollars last year on $25 billion in revenue. That's the equivalent of saying for every $25 in revenue they generated, not a single dollar landed back in their pocket and they had to reach into their wallet and pull out an additional dollar to pay their bills.
That's not making money, it's losing it. And Mazda is in a pickle because of it, their stock is just off a 5 year low. They can't get their new Mexico plant built quickly enough along with all the other cost initiatives implemented to stop losing so much money.
A77 wrote:
Whether or not Honda really loses money on every TSX sold depends how you account for the manufacturing cost and how much else is factored in. As I have said before Mazda 3s are all built in japan and it is the company biggest seller. It sells for as little as $16,000 - near half a TSX and cannot possibly cost half as much to make. Sure Mazda is making a loss but given the same accounting principals as Honda is using, the company would have perished long ago. I don't deny currency changes have caused the car to be way less profitable. But you can be sure that the income they get from the TSX well exceeds actual manufacturing and distribution cost - so even if it is losing $2500 once everything is factored in - it is still making money on each one sold. IMHO.
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