DevilMayCry
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KingRA wrote:
I disagree with dissolving Acura. That is a stupid statement. The Legend and NSX would not have been successful in the states with the then at the time economical Honda badge on the cars. Yes Acura can and will improve. Next week I.will break down what I want Acura to do for each model. Just were years ago Infiniti wasn't that much better than Nissan and it still isn't. Just about everything u can get in a M series you can get in the Maxima. The G35 or 37 interior isn't much better than a Altima . The Lexus line has an ugly grill and the interiors were close to upmarket Toyotas. Now Lexus interiors look like upmarket Chevy Camaro interiors with a fancy click,leather and wood. The MB cars looks like Honda Accords and their interiors look like upgraded Honda Accord interiors. Look at the picks for yourselves. BMW used to look like an upscale Pontiac! Acura isn't even at the top of its game and it is 4 on the sales list, just right outside of the big three with limited models.and engine choices. if Acura broaden its range and speak and marketing it.might be able.to.outsell Lexus. Lets wait and see what they do. The Cadillac CTS is like the Chevy Malibu. The new Malibu offers most of the features in the top trim. the new Chevy Impaled is based of the.new Cadillac XTS. Infiniti and Audi wishes they had Acura sales numbers.in the USA. But all I see is.negative on this board
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Preach it brother!
My sentiments exactly!
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KingRA
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Especially The MB E Class Coupe look just like an overpriced Honda Accord Coupe and the interior are of similar design
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Fan Koni
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All Honda has to do is give them the mission to go global.
Its not enough to do well against X5 etc. in US and race around the ring in Germany - it must be sold there.
RDX same.
Its not enough to have nice ILX looking like a nice IS - it must compete in Italy next to Alfas.
TLX - must be sold next to C&3 in Germany - (main stream models not AMG or M).
If the product teams shits themselves on that goal - then make it better or kill the project!
Going global the girly way via newer markets like China or Russia it not enough.
A true global approach will definitely sort the design extremes out - bonkers vs. bland all the time has no future.
Killing the ZDX seems like the right thing.
Even getting rid of the unprofitable TSX too.
At least those cars proved Honda is prepared to invest into Acura.
Honda has the goods - so no excuses.
Geez a Chinese owned Volvo & Indian owned Land Rover doesn't have half the resources and is moving strongly & globally into "Entry luxury".
Beef up the 2.2 diesel.
Combing V6 & hybrid is definitely the way to go!
V8 & RWD? Its too f...... late anyway.
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accord1989b
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jshaw wrote:
DrWhiner wrote:
jshaw wrote:
The ZDX? Directionless, and hideous. In addition, it sucked up the first years of some good Honda tech (6 speed autos, most notably).
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really? I'm quite sure MDX also got the 6AT same year.
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Same platform, it took another year before the TL, RL (their flagship!) got it. It's taking a lot longer for any US Honda branded product to get it (the only case being the V6 Accord), all while the competition already has had 6 speeds for a number of years, now.
I think, however, Honda is just dawdling until their CVT production ramps up.
Though I did have a double take when Lexus launched that 8 speed automatic in the LS back in 2006. 6 years later, just about every luxury car - or aspiring luxury offers - has an 8 speed.
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Be prepared to get ridiculed for suggesting more speeds in any transmission.
Although I agree with you as I think it is a win win, in performance, smoothness and MPG, providing it is a good one.
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M Type X
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Question: Are we going to start seeing the CVT in the Acura lineup?
My input: I just want them to clean up the sedan portfolio and also offer a coupe again. As a TSX driver, I'm not terribly enthusiastic about replacing it with the ILX and TL(X).
As for AWD, Honda has never been big on it. Subaru would have never grown such a large market position had Honda been more serious on it. The TSX Wagon would sell more briskly if it had AWD.
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revvin
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The 1991 FS-X. SHAWD. Proto-TL.
This is what and where I want Acura to pull from their past; sleek, smart, restrained and timeless with classic proportions.
Not trying to be any other marque's counterpoint. There's no confusion here.
Bring this thinking back.
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owequitit
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revvin wrote:
The 1991 FS-X. SHAWD. Proto-TL.
This is what and where I want Acura to pull from their past; sleek, smart, restrained and timeless with classic proportions.
Not trying to be any other marque's counterpoint. There's no confusion here.
Bring this thinking back.
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That is actually the prototype that previewed the Legend, I am pretty sure. However, I would suggest that it too was very much made less agressive in production form (even though the Legend is probably the best looking Honda ever, this side of an NSX).
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CivicB18
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M Type X wrote:
Question: Are we going to start seeing the CVT in the Acura lineup?
My input: I just want them to clean up the sedan portfolio and also offer a coupe again. As a TSX driver, I'm not terribly enthusiastic about replacing it with the ILX and TL(X).
As for AWD, Honda has never been big on it. Subaru would have never grown such a large market position had Honda been more serious on it. The TSX Wagon would sell more briskly if it had AWD.
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I would look for the CVT eventually in the ILX. the rest of the Acura line will use the 6AT and the Sport Hybrid AWD models will receive a 7 speed dual clutch unit.
~Patrick
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SoulMate
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If they don't want to go RWD then at least they must go to roots and make cars with longitudinal engine layout and with low hood line, short overhangs like old school Honda Legend, Honda Vigor, Honda Inspire.
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6SPDTL
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Acura does OK with what it does, sell "better, fancier, version" Hondas. Dont expect the new RL to be a hit. Its not going to be a different platform, it does not look very interesting and it will simply be a showcase for new gizmos in what is essentially an Accord. Personally I would kill the RL completely and simply offer the goodies on a much better looking TL. The RL will continue to be a boner till Honda decides to build a particular performance/luxury platform for it. If history is any guide that will be when hell freezes over.
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revvin
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SoulMate wrote:
If they don't want to go RWD then at least they must go to roots and make cars with longitudinal engine layout and with low hood line, short overhangs like old school Honda Legend, Honda Vigor, Honda Inspire.
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They can't or won't do it, after being bit by the cost of the yen in the early 90s all the bespoke acura chassis' with odd configurations dried up. Then when Fukui had to pull the tier 1 plans in 2008 and now new emissions regulations, the door seems to be permanently shut for anything other than fancy accords.
Pedestrian safety means they'd have to have hoods like new bmws where the hood is as high as the deck.
No wedge there.
@owe, yeah it is definitely something of a concept legend, it has alot of the design language shared between the early 90s big acuras (greenhouse, rounded sides and pronounced shoulders, long hood, short deck, wedged, short front overhang), but with those headlights, lower ducts, and deep grille it definitely looks contemporary and can pass for inspiration for the 3rd gen TL, the last good looking acura sedan. Even if Ikeda has never seen the FS-X.
I'd like to see this car reimagined, but someone at Honda has to take a stand and change the approach to Acura. The whole "our hands are tied" take to Acura is just gonna create another RL, not another Legend.
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CivicB18
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A large hurdle Acura has yet to jump is that luxury isn't about being merely adequate but it's about excess. Acura has constantly thrown around the value equation and there's nothing wrong with that but I think there's more to be had elsewhere.
Also, the cookie cutter luxury car strategy doesn't make sense. I know it makes production easier but vehicles like the RDX need to expand its range as all of them look the same. As of now there is the RDX FWD, RDX FWD Tech, RDX AWD, RDX AWD Tech. Again, an RDX Sport with AWD, larger wheels/tires, sport suspension, more aggressive facias and the 310hp ED V6 would really wake it up as well as an Advance trim with a panoramic roof, LED head/tail lights, adaptive headlights, rim/tire upgrade and some features from the Accord would expand its range without diluting what the RDX represents. I'm sure Acura could still undercut the RDX's German rivals (X3/Q5/GLK) significantly yet still be able to compete head to head.
Another issue is development. All Acura models should be developed under certain standards (for all models) and all development centers (Japan/Europe/U.S) should all have input as product consistency is lacking. Take for instance the current RL and 3rd generation TL. the TL debuted in 2003 as a 2004 model and the RL debuted about a year later yet looking at both cars one would doubt they were both Acura products. On the other hand the 1st generation TSX and 3rd generation TL had a lot of common DNA in the same light as a 3 Series and a 5 Series.
~Patrick
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CarPhreakD
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Depends on what you mean by "excess". Particularly regarding the 3-series, A4, and C-class, these are by no means really excessive in terms of luxury appointments- not to mention each option is extremely expensive. They do have an "uplevel" sport model.
The main thing when it comes to these German cars that I think separates them from the lesser luxury brands are a combination of powertrain technology, options, and cohesive styling. Acura is using baser platform and engine technology. Styling is definitely on the "miss" side right now, as most Acuras look either generic or just not beautiful. I think even Cadillac pulls off the angular look better than Acura does right now. And the lack of available options/packages probably drives many consumers away. Acura's main strengths right now include driveline, hybridization (with the next generation of Acura models), and a reasonably upscale interior on mid-level models.
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superchg2
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Acura's main strengths right now include driveline, hybridization (with the next generation of Acura models), and a reasonably upscale interior on mid-level models.
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On the other hand, right now it seems like the $35K, 111h.p., Civic IMA equipped ILX is a half-assed attempt by Acura to have a hybrid on the market.
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dj
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IMHO, Reduce the pricing of Current models to overlap current Honda line. When Acura originated there was pricing overlap between the 2 models namely the Accord/Integra...This existed from the begining and now it doesn't. The current Accord/ILX are not only days apart in size but price..The entry model '13 ILX costs more than a '13 Ex Accord sedan by almost $700.00. Who in their right mind would pay more money for a '12 Civic Ex than an Accord Ex? Yet, the un-informed are paying more for an inferior product, yes the Civic/ILX are no comparison to the nu Accord. This proposition gets worse as we climb the Acura ladder especially when we speak of ILX. The addition of the premium pkg adds $3300.00 and then its priced just under by the same $700.00 to both Accord 4cyl EX-L navi/Ex-L V6 sedans. This is a problem that must be addressed..The ILX is far too overpriced and needs a immediated price adjustment of at least $5000.00 which would hopefully spark sales like the initial introduction of the TSX in summer 2003. If you can remember there was a wait of 1 to 3 months and no inventory well into the 2005 model year when demand finally met up with produced inventory..This was Honda/Acura at its best but, where they are now is indeed lost in Greed.
In late summer 1985 when you compared an nu '86 Accord LX-i hatchback to a nu to the market '86 Integra LS it was Sohc vs Dohc...front discs vs 4wheel discs 110hp vs 113hp...both had pop-up headlamps, Almost the same mileage ratings, priced/sized slightly different but never the less products that were marketed giving a choice within a hotly contested market covering all the bases. As it is Honda/Acura Now it is in a state of loss financially and spiritually..The attempt to market in gross profit and to forget ones origins or to seemingly try not to remember the path toward greatness is a Idea change that needs to be dealt with very soon.
I believe that AHMC has given us some good/great products over the years..but I believe they can be better...I know there are others out there that believe it to...
Keep the TSX model as is above the ILX it is a far better executed car overall and if redesigned with passion it can and will remain a ICON like Integra yet is. As for the TL remember what made Gen 3TL's 2004-2008 so very special and still sought after today and possibly add AWD as a option. The RL needs to go large and enjoy a V8 with power with SH-AWD and sexy body that will make others envy. The RDX/MDX restyled to remain current with a slight price reduction offering a pricing/content advantage perhaps return the 4cyl turbo to the line-up with SH-AWD...Bring on the NSX we are waiting for a Halo to come back from Japan..Hurry!
Keep the manuals throughout the model-line and possibly create a 2dr ILX in both 2.0 and 2.4 variant. The Hybrid Tech model should cost no more than 30k...
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superchg2
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dj wrote:
The ILX is far too overpriced and needs a immediated price adjustment of at least $5000.00 which would hopefully spark sales like the initial introduction of the TSX in summer 2003.
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Good idea, but unlikely to happen.
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Jesse
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CivicB18 wrote:
A large hurdle Acura has yet to jump is that luxury isn't about being merely adequate but it's about excess. Acura has constantly thrown around the value equation and there's nothing wrong with that but I think there's more to be had elsewhere.
Also, the cookie cutter luxury car strategy doesn't make sense. I know it makes production easier but vehicles like the RDX need to expand its range as all of them look the same. As of now there is the RDX FWD, RDX FWD Tech, RDX AWD, RDX AWD Tech. Again, an RDX Sport with AWD, larger wheels/tires, sport suspension, more aggressive facias and the 310hp ED V6 would really wake it up as well as an Advance trim with a panoramic roof, LED head/tail lights, adaptive headlights, rim/tire upgrade and some features from the Accord would expand its range without diluting what the RDX represents. I'm sure Acura could still undercut the RDX's German rivals (X3/Q5/GLK) significantly yet still be able to compete head to head.
Another issue is development. All Acura models should be developed under certain standards (for all models) and all development centers (Japan/Europe/U.S) should all have input as product consistency is lacking. Take for instance the current RL and 3rd generation TL. the TL debuted in 2003 as a 2004 model and the RL debuted about a year later yet looking at both cars one would doubt they were both Acura products. On the other hand the 1st generation TSX and 3rd generation TL had a lot of common DNA in the same light as a 3 Series and a 5 Series.
~Patrick
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+1. I totally agree with you. And about "value," it is actually hurting the Acura brand. Value is more like a need. Luxury is a want - a desire, a passion. Yes it is all about excess. And IMO the only vehicle in the Acura line-up that is an excellent definition of luxury is the controversial ZDX.
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CivicB18
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CarPhreakD wrote:
Depends on what you mean by "excess". Particularly regarding the 3-series, A4, and C-class, these are by no means really excessive in terms of luxury appointments- not to mention each option is extremely expensive. They do have an "uplevel" sport model.
The main thing when it comes to these German cars that I think separates them from the lesser luxury brands are a combination of powertrain technology, options, and cohesive styling. Acura is using baser platform and engine technology. Styling is definitely on the "miss" side right now, as most Acuras look either generic or just not beautiful. I think even Cadillac pulls off the angular look better than Acura does right now. And the lack of available options/packages probably drives many consumers away. Acura's main strengths right now include driveline, hybridization (with the next generation of Acura models), and a reasonably upscale interior on mid-level models.
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The German offering offer excess as the A4, C-Klasse and the 3 Series offer a full range of drivetrains, options and high performance offerings. That to me is excess as they offer MORE than what I need. Acura on the other hand has 1 performance model (TL SH-AWD 6MT) and have limited drivetrain choices and options.
~Patrick
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xBeastx
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dj wrote:
IMHO, Reduce the pricing of Current models to overlap current Honda line. When Acura originated there was pricing overlap between the 2 models namely the Accord/Integra...This existed from the begining and now it doesn't. The current Accord/ILX are not only days apart in size but price..The entry model '13 ILX costs more than a '13 Ex Accord sedan by almost $700.00. Who in their right mind would pay more money for a '12 Civic Ex than an Accord Ex? Yet, the un-informed are paying more for an inferior product, yes the Civic/ILX are no comparison to the nu Accord. This proposition gets worse as we climb the Acura ladder especially when we speak of ILX. The addition of the premium pkg adds $3300.00 and then its priced just under by the same $700.00 to both Accord 4cyl EX-L navi/Ex-L V6 sedans. This is a problem that must be addressed..The ILX is far too overpriced and needs a immediated price adjustment of at least $5000.00 which would hopefully spark sales like the initial introduction of the TSX in summer 2003. If you can remember there was a wait of 1 to 3 months and no inventory well into the 2005 model year when demand finally met up with produced inventory..This was Honda/Acura at its best but, where they are now is indeed lost in Greed.
In late summer 1985 when you compared an nu '86 Accord LX-i hatchback to a nu to the market '86 Integra LS it was Sohc vs Dohc...front discs vs 4wheel discs 110hp vs 113hp...both had pop-up headlamps, Almost the same mileage ratings, priced/sized slightly different but never the less products that were marketed giving a choice within a hotly contested market covering all the bases. As it is Honda/Acura Now it is in a state of loss financially and spiritually..The attempt to market in gross profit and to forget ones origins or to seemingly try not to remember the path toward greatness is a Idea change that needs to be dealt with very soon.
I believe that AHMC has given us some good/great products over the years..but I believe they can be better...I know there are others out there that believe it to...
Keep the TSX model as is above the ILX it is a far better executed car overall and if redesigned with passion it can and will remain a ICON like Integra yet is. As for the TL remember what made Gen 3TL's 2004-2008 so very special and still sought after today and possibly add AWD as a option. The RL needs to go large and enjoy a V8 with power with SH-AWD and sexy body that will make others envy. The RDX/MDX restyled to remain current with a slight price reduction offering a pricing/content advantage perhaps return the 4cyl turbo to the line-up with SH-AWD...Bring on the NSX we are waiting for a Halo to come back from Japan..Hurry!
Keep the manuals throughout the model-line and possibly create a 2dr ILX in both 2.0 and 2.4 variant. The Hybrid Tech model should cost no more than 30k...
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I agree with everything here, but NOT the V8 RL. Definitely not. If Nissan can make a V6 go 0-60/0-100 in less than 3 seconds, then Honda certainly can too. Perhaps they did with the new NSX.
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