JP
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any rumors? any info? any projections? any thing?
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xBeastx
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JP wrote:
any rumors? any info? any projections? any thing?
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I'm wondering this too. It most likely will have an Earth Dreams 1.5L with a CVT or 6MT. The next generation Fit will be built in Mexico for the Americas and goes on sale spring/summer of 2014.
Japan gets the 2014 Fit at the end of 2013 (next year).
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alan3885
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I am also eager also to find out what happens to the next generation Honda Fit and hope we also get details here soon in the North American version after the other global markets announce theres and hope it remains also similar to its Japanese/Global siblings like the JDM models like the engine, handling, quality, trims, and with all great small and big and small cute design details and elements and also see the addition with a Hybrid model too would also be nice too :-) I am so excited and can't wait
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danielgr
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JP wrote:
any rumors? any info? any projections? any thing?
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I personally would be extremely suprised if they didn't. To me that's a given at this point in time.
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RayChuang
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Honda has pretty much implied there will be a new Honda Fit/Jazz coming late in 2013.
My guess for drivetrain is the following:
1.3-liter I-4 Earth Dreams Technology engine rated at just over 100 bhp for the east Asian and European markets with either CVT or six-speed manual.
1.5-liter I-4 Earth Dreams Technology engine rated at 125 bhp (SAE 08/04 net) for the North American market and for a more "sporting" Japanese market model with either CVT or six-speed manual.
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xBeastx
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From an article:
"Honda, forecasting to sell a record 4.3 million vehicles this fiscal year, is planning worldwide rollouts of new Fit vehicles, including a sedan and compact sport-utility vehicle, from next year, said Ito, who’s led the company since 2009. The start of a factory in Mexico will further increase production of the Fit, known as the Jazz in Europe, for the North American market in 2014, he said."
So does this mean there will be three Fit/Jazz models for the third generation? A hatchback, a sedan, and a compact SUV?
The sedan seems to be inline with Honda's plan of dropping the DX model on the 2013 Civic and adding back-up camera on the LX, just like the 2013 Accord.
The small SUV also corresponds with Europe's plan for a compact SUV based on the Jazz platform.
It's all starting to add up! Oh yeah, one more thing: as in the excerpt, "the start of a factory in Mexico will further increase production of the Fit." Could that possibly mean that North America will still get import 2014 Fits in late 2013?
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Restless
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RayChuang wrote:
Honda has pretty much implied there will be a new Honda Fit/Jazz coming late in 2013.
My guess for drivetrain is the following:
1.3-liter I-4 Earth Dreams Technology engine rated at just over 100 bhp for the east Asian and European markets with either CVT or six-speed manual.
1.5-liter I-4 Earth Dreams Technology engine rated at 125 bhp (SAE 08/04 net) for the North American market and for a more "sporting" Japanese market model with either CVT or six-speed manual.
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And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
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Restless
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xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
From an article:
"Honda, forecasting to sell a record 4.3 million vehicles this fiscal year, is planning worldwide rollouts of new Fit vehicles, including a sedan and compact sport-utility vehicle, from next year, said Ito, who’s led the company since 2009. The start of a factory in Mexico will further increase production of the Fit, known as the Jazz in Europe, for the North American market in 2014, he said."
So does this mean there will be three Fit/Jazz models for the third generation? A hatchback, a sedan, and a compact SUV?
The sedan seems to be inline with Honda's plan of dropping the DX model on the 2013 Civic and adding back-up camera on the LX, just like the 2013 Accord.
The small SUV also corresponds with Europe's plan for a compact SUV based on the Jazz platform.
It's all starting to add up! Oh yeah, one more thing: as in the excerpt, "the start of a factory in Mexico will further increase production of the Fit." Could that possibly mean that North America will still get import 2014 Fits in late 2013?
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Probably the sedan is new gen City - Fit-based sedan
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xBeastx
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Restless wrote:
RayChuang wrote:
Honda has pretty much implied there will be a new Honda Fit/Jazz coming late in 2013.
My guess for drivetrain is the following:
1.3-liter I-4 Earth Dreams Technology engine rated at just over 100 bhp for the east Asian and European markets with either CVT or six-speed manual.
1.5-liter I-4 Earth Dreams Technology engine rated at 125 bhp (SAE 08/04 net) for the North American market and for a more "sporting" Japanese market model with either CVT or six-speed manual.
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And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
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TAXES for an engine over 100hp??? That is legit bullshit. They are taxing the wrong numbers.
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Restless
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xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
TAXES for an engine over 100hp??? That is legit bullshit. They are taxing the wrong numbers.
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Why not? 100 is more than enough for city driving in car Jazz-size
Besides, every engines has taxes, >100 are bit bigger, usually there is another limit in the range of 160-200, above which taxes become really expensive. Still, best way is to cover all positions.
Offer 2-3 gasoline and 2-3 diesel engines. Not that Honda ever in last 10 years did that in Europe
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xBeastx
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Restless wrote:
xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
TAXES for an engine over 100hp??? That is legit bullshit. They are taxing the wrong numbers.
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Why not? 100 is more than enough for city driving in car Jazz-size
Besides, every engines has taxes, >100 are bit bigger, usually there is another limit in the range of 160-200, above which taxes become really expensive. Still, best way is to cover all positions.
Offer 2-3 gasoline and 2-3 diesel engines. Not that Honda ever in last 10 years did that in Europe
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Why not? I understand that 100hp is enough...in fact, the 166hp I4 in the previous generation CR-V is more than enough power for me. I'm saying they, whoever that might be, should tax numbers that would really make a difference, such as CO2 emissions.
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JP
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Restless wrote:
And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
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I really doubt that with the 2013 accord v6... It shows really huge improvement... and i4 and v6 ED 2013 accord engines look underrated...
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Restless
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JP wrote:
Restless wrote:
And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
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I really doubt that with the 2013 accord v6... It shows really huge improvement... and i4 and v6 ED 2013 accord engines look underrated...
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Huge improvement where? take in account the AT is 6 speed.
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xBeastx
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Restless wrote:
JP wrote:
Restless wrote:
And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
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I really doubt that with the 2013 accord v6... It shows really huge improvement... and i4 and v6 ED 2013 accord engines look underrated...
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Huge improvement where? take in account the AT is 6 speed.
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This is a large car we're talking about. Just wait until they place Earth Dreams in their smaller cars (Fit/Jazz, Civic).
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NSXman
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Restless wrote:
xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
TAXES for an engine over 100hp??? That is legit bullshit. They are taxing the wrong numbers.
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Why not? 100 is more than enough for city driving in car Jazz-size
Besides, every engines has taxes, >100 are bit bigger, usually there is another limit in the range of 160-200, above which taxes become really expensive. Still, best way is to cover all positions.
Offer 2-3 gasoline and 2-3 diesel engines. Not that Honda ever in last 10 years did that in Europe
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One reason it is stupid to tax engines based on hp is because you are also paying tax on the amount of gas you use. It is a double tax....never stopped most governments though.
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Restless
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xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
Restless wrote:
JP wrote:
Restless wrote:
And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
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I really doubt that with the 2013 accord v6... It shows really huge improvement... and i4 and v6 ED 2013 accord engines look underrated...
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Huge improvement where? take in account the AT is 6 speed.
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This is a large car we're talking about. Just wait until they place Earth Dreams in their smaller cars (Fit/Jazz, Civic).
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I don't follow your logic.
ED gives almost nothing to large cars, so it will give mch more for small ones?! :S
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xBeastx
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Restless wrote:
xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
Restless wrote:
JP wrote:
Restless wrote:
And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
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I really doubt that with the 2013 accord v6... It shows really huge improvement... and i4 and v6 ED 2013 accord engines look underrated...
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Huge improvement where? take in account the AT is 6 speed.
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This is a large car we're talking about. Just wait until they place Earth Dreams in their smaller cars (Fit/Jazz, Civic).
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I don't follow your logic.
ED gives almost nothing to large cars, so it will give mch more for small ones?! :S
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It possibly could! :3
I don't follow my own logic either. I guess we'll have to wait for the 2014 Fit to see!
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CivicB18
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Restless wrote:
xAbSoLuTexZeRo wrote:
Restless wrote:
JP wrote:
Restless wrote:
And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
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I really doubt that with the 2013 accord v6... It shows really huge improvement... and i4 and v6 ED 2013 accord engines look underrated...
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Huge improvement where? take in account the AT is 6 speed.
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This is a large car we're talking about. Just wait until they place Earth Dreams in their smaller cars (Fit/Jazz, Civic).
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I don't follow your logic.
ED gives almost nothing to large cars, so it will give mch more for small ones?! :S
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ED drivetrains (the Accord) have proven to give a measurable gain in efficiency while giving a significant improvement in all around performance. With that said, how does ED "give nothing"?
~Patrick
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RayChuang
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Restless wrote:
I hope the smaller engine will be under 100hp, else it will be with higher taxes.
And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
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If I remember correctly, excise taxes on engines are based on displacement, not engine power. That's why I-4 engines have displacements of 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5. 1.6, 1.8, and 2.0 liters, depending on where there are sold, because each country imposes a higher excise tax based on exceeding a certain limit. That's why in Japan most subcompact cars have engines in the 1.3 or 1.5 liter range.
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Restless
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CivicB18 wrote:
ED drivetrains (the Accord) have proven to give a measurable gain in efficiency while giving a significant improvement in all around performance. With that said, how does ED "give nothing"?
~Patrick
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I claim almost all "measurable gain in efficiency " comes from 6speed transmission, prove me wrong :)
Until we have some dyno and somehow compare engines on almost identical setups, all we can say is that improvements in MPG are not great.
As for taxes, in some countries they are per engine size (hence small turbo engines benefit), in some per power (with tax limits like < 100, < 200 and above 200), in some its per CO2 - as in UK.
Last edited by JeffX on 11-05-2012 17:46
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Restless
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CivicB18 wrote:
ED drivetrains (the Accord) have proven to give a measurable gain in efficiency while giving a significant improvement in all around performance. With that said, how does ED "give nothing"?
~Patrick
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I claim almost all "measurable gain in efficiency " comes from 6speed transmission, prove me wrong :)
Until we have some dyno and somehow compare engines on almost identical setups, all we can say is that improvements in MPG are not great.
As for taxes, in some countries they are per engine size (hence small turbo engines benefit), in some per power (with tax limits like < 100, < 200 and above 200), in some its per CO2 - as in UK.
Last edited by JeffX on 11-05-2012 17:44
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Double J
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http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121105/OEM01/311059975/ito-predicts-fit-will-lead-a-surge-in-honda-sales
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JeffX
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Restless wrote:
JP wrote:
Restless wrote:
And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
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I really doubt that with the 2013 accord v6... It shows really huge improvement... and i4 and v6 ED 2013 accord engines look underrated...
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Huge improvement where? take in account the AT is 6 speed.
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Despite EPA figures, the real world fuel economy of the previous V6 was not very good with the crippled no-VTEC VCM system, at least with the earlier model years of the 8th gen Accord. The new Earth Dreams V6 has full VTEC plus cylinder cut, so the midrange torque is MUCH better. This means you don't have to downshift as much to hold speeds while going up hills or shift out of cylinder cut mode as frequently. I expect the real world FE benefits to be pretty sizeable. THEN you add the benefits of the 6AT and the benefit is magnified.
Even if there is no fuel economy benefit from the new V6 engine it's much livelier than the previous V6.
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TonyEX
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Jeff wrote:
Restless wrote:
JP wrote:
Restless wrote:
And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
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I really doubt that with the 2013 accord v6... It shows really huge improvement... and i4 and v6 ED 2013 accord engines look underrated...
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Huge improvement where? take in account the AT is 6 speed.
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Despite EPA figures, the real world fuel economy of the previous V6 was not very good with the crippled no-VTEC VCM system, at least with the earlier model years of the 8th gen Accord. The new Earth Dreams V6 has full VTEC plus cylinder cut, so the midrange torque is MUCH better. This means you don't have to downshift as much to hold speeds while going up hills or shift out of cylinder cut mode as frequently. I expect the real world FE benefits to be pretty sizeable. THEN you add the benefits of the 6AT and the benefit is magnified.
Even if there is no fuel economy benefit from the new V6 engine it's much livelier than the previous V6.
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Even the previous non VCM J30/J35 in the Accord Coupe 6MT?
The J30 in our 05 Accord was a hoot...
I fully expect that the new Accord V6 6MT would be better... a monster with more torque and a bit more horsepower.
Does it even bother with VCM fuel cut off?
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DrWhiner
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Didn't he say FMC Fit will arrive in 2013???
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Double J
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DrWhiner wrote:
Didn't he say FMC Fit will arrive in 2013???
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I'm going to assume that there will be no FMC Fit in NA until the new plant in Mexico is operational. Maybe JDM before then?
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CVCC1974
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Double J wrote:
DrWhiner wrote:
Didn't he say FMC Fit will arrive in 2013???
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I'm going to assume that there will be no FMC Fit in NA until the new plant in Mexico is operational. Maybe JDM before then?
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As far as I read from Honda's press-releases, JDM Fit FMC will come in late 2013 & North American Fit will follow around spring - summer 2014 (as early as when the Mexican plant will become operational).
But the next-gen Stream/Civic-MPV (based on "Honda Concept C") will most likely arrive earlier than FMC Fit, and most likely it will have 1.8-2.0 Earth Dreams too.
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CVCC1974
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^ I mean Honda "Concept S"
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P54
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RayChuang wrote:
Restless wrote:
I hope the smaller engine will be under 100hp, else it will be with higher taxes.
And it seems "EarthDreams" is just marketing slogan.
At least in Accord there are no visible improvements in MPG.
|
If I remember correctly, excise taxes on engines are based on displacement, not engine power. That's why I-4 engines have displacements of 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5. 1.6, 1.8, and 2.0 liters, depending on where there are sold, because each country imposes a higher excise tax based on exceeding a certain limit. That's why in Japan most subcompact cars have engines in the 1.3 or 1.5 liter range.
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It all depends what country you live in.
One country, Norway, with the world's most expensive gasoline at more than $10 per US. gallon have possibly the highest car taxes in the world:
They tax cars based on:
Cost of vehicle
Gasoline or diesel:
Engine size: 0–1100cc @ $2.50 cc, 1101–1700 cc @ $8.50 cc, 1701–2100 cc @ $19.50 cc, over 2100 cc @ $21 cc
Engine power: 0–65 KW = 0, 66–90 kw @ $55 kw, 91–130 kw @ $156 kw, over 130 kw @ $386 kw
C02 emission:0–110 g/km =0 , 111–130 g/km at $130 g/km, 131–170 g/km at $131 g/km, 171–240 g/km at $306 g/km, + 240 g/km at $492 g/km.
NOX emission: over 0 (about $4 per mg/km)
Weight of vehicle: 0–1150 KG at $6.50/kg, 1151–1400 kg at $14/kg, 1401–1500 kg at $28/kg, +1 500 kg at $32.50/kg.
On top of that comes 25% sales tax.
Now maybe you understand that a CR-V can cost you $97,000, a Jazz (Fit) $43,000, a Civic $65,000, an Accord $83,000 and CR-Z and Insight for $47,000.
See how blessed the Americans are.
BTW, a 2010 used Camaro SS is for sales over there for US $190,000
New VW Touareg $227,000
KIA Sorento $110,000
Hyundai Santa Fe $115,500
Hyundai Veloster $57,500
MB Gelendewagen $696,000
Audi R8 $458,000
BMW X6 and 7series $425,000
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sadlerau
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P54 wrote:
It all depends what country you live in.
One country, Norway, with the world's most expensive gasoline at more than $10 per US. gallon have possibly the highest car taxes in the world:
They tax cars based on:
Cost of vehicle
Gasoline or diesel:
Engine size: 0–1100cc @ $2.50 cc, 1101–1700 cc @ $8.50 cc, 1701–2100 cc @ $19.50 cc, over 2100 cc @ $21 cc
Engine power: 0–65 KW = 0, 66–90 kw @ $55 kw, 91–130 kw @ $156 kw, over 130 kw @ $386 kw
C02 emission:0–110 g/km =0 , 111–130 g/km at $130 g/km, 131–170 g/km at $131 g/km, 171–240 g/km at $306 g/km, + 240 g/km at $492 g/km.
NOX emission: over 0 (about $4 per mg/km)
Weight of vehicle: 0–1150 KG at $6.50/kg, 1151–1400 kg at $14/kg, 1401–1500 kg at $28/kg, +1 500 kg at $32.50/kg.
On top of that comes 25% sales tax.
Now maybe you understand that a CR-V can cost you $97,000, a Jazz (Fit) $43,000, a Civic $65,000, an Accord $83,000 and CR-Z and Insight for $47,000.
See how blessed the Americans are.
BTW, a 2010 used Camaro SS is for sales over there for US $190,000
New VW Touareg $227,000
KIA Sorento $110,000
Hyundai Santa Fe $115,500
Hyundai Veloster $57,500
MB Gelendewagen $696,000
Audi R8 $458,000
BMW X6 and 7series $425,000
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A socialist country with green leanings then?
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