David Crevenston
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Hello to all on here you guys have helped me out before so thanks to all. I am having the temp gauge go above the 1/2 mark and it almost goes in the red. I am guessing here that something is majorly wrong like the head gasket is going. My friend had one go on his Honda and he drove it and overheated it. I need some help here as to what is going on and what could cause this problem. Also wanted to add sometimes I smell gas in the oil I am sure that has something to do with this please advise me. I don’t smell gas in the oil all the time though. Also sometimes the car takes a while to start like it has a hard start instead of starting/firing up right away.
Okay so here are some things that have been done to eliminate some things....
Spark plugs changed, coolant changed and good, fans and everything on the car works in perfect order, new distributor, new belts and oil just changed.
With that being said can someone please chime in on what this could be and what I can do (options) to fix this.
The car is 91 se 140k on it in great condition.
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Silver2k2Si
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A fuel smell in oil is typically is caused by piston rings allowing blow by during the compression cycle of the engine. Minimal blow by (which it sounds like you have) is not always a horrible thing and is not really typical of a blown head gasket. Best way to check this is to have a compression test done to see if the blow by is typical of an engine that has 140k miles on it or is becoming excessive.
Typical blown head gasket causes antifreeze to go into the combustion chamber, into the oil, white smoke from the exhaust and you will see black deposits in the antifreeze.
Your problem sounds like a stuck or sticking thermostat not allowing coolant to flow into the radiator or it could be a clogged radiator. Best bet is to change the thermostat and see if that solves your problem if not I would look at the radiator and see if you have cool spots in it where coolant may not be allowed to flow.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1991-Honda-Accord/Thermostat/_/N-ithfhZ8gctr?filterByKeyWord=thermostat&fromString=search
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Oldguy
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Were you losing any coolant? Did the old coolant seem contaminated at all? Is the oil normal looking? No milky appearance as if coolant is mixing in the oil? Is there white smoke coming out the exhaust? Those are some symptoms of a blown head gasket along with the fact that you have power loss.
Does the engine actually seem hotter? It usually smells hot when it's on the verge of over heating. Is the water pump the original one? If so, I might suspect that after ruling out a gauge or sensor problem. Other problems might be thermostat sticking or a flow restriction in the old radiator. The fact that the gauge is creeping hotter makes me think it is less likely a head gasket. I could be wrong.
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Grace141
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Agree with both of the above responses. One comment on the smell of gasoline in the oil, Hondas always had a habit of rings failing with miles and age, and you'd see some blue smoke under just about all driving conditions. Not really a problem unless the engine is consuming several quarts of oil between changes and probably not related to the engine overheating. I think the important thing is to change the oil frequently so the progressively diluted oil/gas mixture doesn't cause bearing failure.
I once had a thermostat fail intermittently with it sticking closed one day and open the next. I also once had a car which had a clogged radiator. You've got to love the smell of old antifreeze.
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David Crevenston
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Just changed oil and did not see any water that I could tell. It was not a milky color as well. I did smell a little gas not much though.
Let me ask you this is the thermstat was bad what would happen? Could a bad thermostat cause the temp gauge to go into 3/4 almost the red?
Can both the upper and lower hoses going to radiator be hot if the thermostat is bad?
Is there a test I can do to see if the thermostat is bad?
I thought the test for this was when the car gets hot see if it cools and touch both hoses to see if they are both hot. I did this and everything was fine hence why I think its the head gasket. If the thermostat is bad how hot will it let the car get temp gauge till the red?
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Oldguy
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There are some that fail in the open position but most fail in the closed position, which means there is no coolant circulation except the small amount through the bypass port. If it fails completely the engine would over heat quite quickly. It may be partially open or it may open intermittently in your case. If after a cold start both hoses are hot, then the thermostat is working, at that point. I don't know of any test other than to remove it and observe its action after placing it in hot, almost boiling, water to determine if it is opening. You don't seem to have any symptoms of head gasket failure. You could do a compression test on the cylinders. That may reveal a head gasket problem if you have one. I wouldn't rule out a water pump issue. They do fail.
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Silver2k2Si
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David Crevenston wrote:
Let me ask you this is the thermstat was bad what would happen?
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Thermostat bad stuck open car would not be able to maintain proper engine operating temperature and would tend to cool down while driving on the highway in colder temperatures because thermostat would allow 100% of fluid to cycle to the radiator
Thermostat bad stuck closed car would overheat because nearly all fluid would be diverted away from the radiator and back through the engine in a repeated loop. This is what the engine does when it is cold to get it up to proper operating temperature faster.
David Crevenston wrote:
Could a bad thermostat cause the temp gauge to go into 3/4 almost the red?
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Absolutely if the engines coolant is not allowed to be cooled by the radiator and is stuck in an endless loop inside the motor it would not be able to cool itself efficiently and will over heat.
David Crevenston wrote:
Can both the upper and lower hoses going to radiator be hot if the thermostat is bad?
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Yes they can if the thermostat partially opens but does not allow 100% of the fluid to cycle through the radiator. Sometimes a thermostat will only open 10-20% and get stuck on deposits and corrosion on the thermostat and will not open further and cause a poor cooling condition which it sounds like you have.
David Crevenston wrote:
Is there a test I can do to see if the thermostat is bad?
I thought the test for this was when the car gets hot see if it cools and touch both hoses to see if they are both hot. I did this and everything was fine hence why I think its the head gasket.
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Here is a good site to tell you how to test your thermostat properly if you really want to test to see if it is bad...
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1991-Honda-Accord/Thermostat/_/N-ithfhZ8gctr?filterByKeyWord=thermostat&fromString=search
Unfortunately you do have to remove it to do so and then you would need to replace the gasket anyways so it is easier just to get a new one and install it.
David Crevenston wrote:
If the thermostat is bad how hot will it let the car get temp gauge till the red?
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Most of the time it seems when thermostats do fail they tend to do so in the OPEN position but they do fail in the closed position as well which would cause the car to go into an overheat condition.
I would suggest starting at the thermostat because it is the cheapest and probably most likely cause of the problem you are having. After this I would go after the radiator and then water pump as likely causing factors for you over heating.
However if you do want to make sure your head gasket is not blown (not usually very likely at your mileage unless you have overheated your car which would cause the engine head to warp) there are some diagnostic tests you can perform easily if you have a minimal tool setup which I will list below.
1) remove all spark plugs and look down the spark plug holes at the tops of the pistons and look for water residue (you should not see any liquid in there as fuel should be well vaporized). Also look at and smell the spark plugs to see if there is any antifreeze on them or the smell of antifreeze.
2) With all the spark plugs installed but the spark plug wires removed, remove the radiator cap (as long as it is cool) and have someone try to start the motor (for no more than 10-15 seconds to prevent over heating of your starter motor) looking at the radiator for air bubbles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIgOg9HSEow
3) Look for carbon deposits and/or oil in the antifreeze
4) Water in the oil (you said you already looked and saw none good sign)
5) Radiator chemical test that checks for microscopic carbon deposits in the antifreeze
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1om5kFlT7E&feature=related
6) Cyclinder Compression test
If you want to know about how to test the water pump or the radiator let me know and I will write that out for you.
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Silver2k2Si
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Silver2k2Si wrote:
David Crevenston wrote:
Is there a test I can do to see if the thermostat is bad?
I thought the test for this was when the car gets hot see if it cools and touch both hoses to see if they are both hot. I did this and everything was fine hence why I think its the head gasket.
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Here is a good site to tell you how to test your thermostat properly if you really want to test to see if it is bad...
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/1991-Honda-Accord/Thermostat/_/N-ithfhZ8gctr?filterByKeyWord=thermostat&fromString=search
Unfortunately you do have to remove it to do so and then you would need to replace the gasket anyways so it is easier just to get a new one and install it.
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Sorry here is the correct website for testing a thermostat
http://www.ehow.com/how_2189728_test-cooling-system-thermostat.html
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Grace141
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Four more comments:
1.) About a possibly clogged radiator, the car I had with such a problem had the opposite overheating habits you might expect. It ran cool at low speeds in town and would overheat at highway speeds. When I parked the car and let it idle the temperature would drop to normal. Makes sense but still maybe not what a person would expect.
2.) The original comment about the '91 Accord having difficult starting at times sounds like a weak battery to me if the engine spins very slowly during starting and then fires right up. I'd suggest having a local auto parts store check the battery and the output from the alternator. If by difficult starting it's meant the engine cranks and cranks at normal speed sounding like it should and then finally sputters to life I think it points to a fuel pressure/leak down problem. The first cheap step is to replace the fuel filter. If after driving the car during the day the engine starts normally and then runs fine with good power I wouldn't think it's a problem with the engine itself and none of this is related to overheating.
3.) I'm not sure what to think about a possible failed water pump. Has anyone really seen a water pump failure with the impeller separated from the drive pulley in some way? I could see a water pump seizing but that would make a lot of grinding noise plus damage the belt. Usually it's pump bearing/seal failure causing a lot of noise and leakage of antifreeze but the pump still moves the liquid.
4.) As for a blown head gasket there can be a variety of head gasket failures including very minor leaks which can cause a car to run hot. It would be the last thing I'd check but a compression check is needed. Replacing the thermostat is the first step.
I wouldn't drive the car regularly until I had solved this problem.
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David Crevenston
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Okay so I think it’s safe to say the car is fixed. Once again thanks to you people on here all of you are the best. I have drove the car hard as shit for almost 2 weeks and everything is okay. Wow who would have thought that little damn part could overheat your Honda........
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David Crevenston
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Okay so I think it’s safe to say the car is fixed. Once again thanks to you people on here all of you are the best. I have drove the car hard as shit for almost 2 weeks and everything is okay. Wow who would have thought that little damn part could overheat your Honda........
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