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TOV Forums > General Talk > > Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?

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notyper
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Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-11-2012 02:21
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S600=Dream wrote:
So, ehh, what *could* Honda potentially do to the new ED K24 to make it a proper performance engine?

Is there anything obvious that they could add to it to make it breathe better up top and rev harder, or is it just inherently designed to be a torquier, less revvy engine?

I wonder if they don't have something up their sleeves. From the initial reports of the ED engines, it seemed like there were a lot of possible angles they could have taken with it. I was under the impression that it was a tech'd out K series from the get-go, and they were tuning it initially for fuel economy, emissions, and for pulling a big fatass family sedan around.

Maybe there is another state of being for it that has it cranking out more of it's potential.

We all know the K had/has (?) tons of performance potential. Have they snubbed all that out with the ED tech?




There's nothing that says a direct injection engine can't make high rpm power (see Ferrari 458 V8). But you are going to potentially sacrifice bottom end torque, fuel economy and emissions performance.

The bigger issue with the K24W is the integrated exhaust manifold and the giant close coupled catalytic converter (and lack of exhaust VTEC). I don't care what you do on the intake side, if you're going to choke the motor on the exhaust side, you're going to limit your high rpm power potential.

As long as Honda insists on plunking that big old (literally thigh sized) catalytic converter 3" from the exhaust port, high rpm power is going to suffer. DI mixture issues and lack of exhaust VTEC are important, but irrelevant as long as that cat is there.

SC
RolledaNsx
Profile for RolledaNsx
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-11-2012 04:01
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Split injection will help in a DI engine for low-end and max rpm.
But that giant cat 3" from the port must go.

atomiclightbulb
Profile for atomiclightbulb
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-11-2012 10:20
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owequitit wrote:
We aren't supposed to like revvy, top end engines around here, remember? We are apparently supposed to gratefully accept whatever Honda is giving us and think it is the best engine ever.


I have always believed in "the right tool for the job" approach, and revvy, top end engines like the K20Z3 are the wrong tool for creating a mass-market family sedan.

The vast majority of people I know who would be in the market for a family sedan want something that is comfortable, efficient, and easy to drive. This is better accomplished by an engine that makes good low and midrange power, and doesn't need to be wrung out to really go. This is exactly why I drive an Accord with a K24, and not a car with a K20. I don't "accept" the K24, I bought a car with it because I genuinely liked the characteristics of the engine.

The lack of a high-revving I4 in Honda's lineup is not a good reason to attack Honda's efforts in other areas. The argument to Honda should be "build something like the K20, because there are customers who want it" rather than "the K24W sucks how dare you shove this at us". You may not like engines like the K24W, but there are many many customers who demand an engine with its characteristics.

By the same "right tool for the job" line of thinking, I also believe that the K24 as it stands is the wrong engine for something like the Civic Si, and it would be awful for a roadster like the S2000.

A sports car that is meant to be driven hard and shifted often is bought for that purpose. People bought a Civic Si or an S2000 because the wanted to hear the engine scream, and they wanted to keep the engine boiling. A high revving, screaming engine is appropriate for this application, and a low/mid revving engine with no top end is useless for this kind of car.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-11-2012 14:47
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S600=Dream wrote:
So, ehh, what *could* Honda potentially do to the new ED K24 to make it a proper performance engine?

Is there anything obvious that they could add to it to make it breathe better up top and rev harder, or is it just inherently designed to be a torquier, less revvy engine?

I wonder if they don't have something up their sleeves. From the initial reports of the ED engines, it seemed like there were a lot of possible angles they could have taken with it. I was under the impression that it was a tech'd out K series from the get-go, and they were tuning it initially for fuel economy, emissions, and for pulling a big fatass family sedan around.

Maybe there is another state of being for it that has it cranking out more of it's potential.

We all know the K had/has (?) tons of performance potential. Have they snubbed all that out with the ED tech?




Bin it.

You'd need to be able to increase the bore & reduce the stroke, in order to reduce the mean piston velocity. I think the K block is maxxed out.

You'd need a different head design, with i-VTEC on the exhaust & a proper header to a smaller, fast light-off split with a hi-flow design as on the V10. It'd also probably not be able to use anything like the existing DI geometry.

The K24W sounds optimised as a torquey lump for slugs like Accords & CR-Vs.

If you wanted a proper S2400 engine, you'd start again from scratch.
P54
Profile for P54
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-11-2012 20:23
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Maybe the beginning got lost in the economic downturn and following natural disasters. How many cars did Honda work on prior to 2009 that got scrapped/delayed? We hear about the coming of the new NSX after the one they worked on got scrapped. They have showed the EV-STER and talk about a new mid engine "baby NSX", the CR-Z is being changed and a new Type R is in the works. New power trains are in the work to. This new Accord is the first vehicle developed under the leadership of Ito and so far it seems most testers have positive feed back.

Was this the new sports car that got scrapped/delayed because of the economic downturn? It was almost production ready in 2008. Is it coming now?





And the new Civic that got scrapped:



Chocs
Profile for Chocs
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-11-2012 21:11
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P54 wrote:
Was this the new sports car that got scrapped/delayed because of the economic downturn? It was almost production ready in 2008. Is it coming now?




Maybe it's a precursor to the EV-STER, of which exist rumours of production? I really prefer this concept for its clean look. The EV-STER, at least in concept from, doesn't look nearly as elegant.
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-12-2012 00:49
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atomiclightbulb wrote:
owequitit wrote:
We aren't supposed to like revvy, top end engines around here, remember? We are apparently supposed to gratefully accept whatever Honda is giving us and think it is the best engine ever.


I have always believed in "the right tool for the job" approach, and revvy, top end engines like the K20Z3 are the wrong tool for creating a mass-market family sedan.

The vast majority of people I know who would be in the market for a family sedan want something that is comfortable, efficient, and easy to drive. This is better accomplished by an engine that makes good low and midrange power, and doesn't need to be wrung out to really go. This is exactly why I drive an Accord with a K24, and not a car with a K20. I don't "accept" the K24, I bought a car with it because I genuinely liked the characteristics of the engine.

The lack of a high-revving I4 in Honda's lineup is not a good reason to attack Honda's efforts in other areas. The argument to Honda should be "build something like the K20, because there are customers who want it" rather than "the K24W sucks how dare you shove this at us". You may not like engines like the K24W, but there are many many customers who demand an engine with its characteristics.

By the same "right tool for the job" line of thinking, I also believe that the K24 as it stands is the wrong engine for something like the Civic Si, and it would be awful for a roadster like the S2000.

A sports car that is meant to be driven hard and shifted often is bought for that purpose. People bought a Civic Si or an S2000 because the wanted to hear the engine scream, and they wanted to keep the engine boiling. A high revving, screaming engine is appropriate for this application, and a low/mid revving engine with no top end is useless for this kind of car.


It's funny to me how everybody gives me shit , and yet here you are putting words in my mouth.

1) I was referring to high-revving engines in terms of Honda's fun product like the Si (where we are constantly berated for not wanting something akin to a small block). It was made in relation to the mention of Honda's old and enjoyable revivers (like the TSX that was mentioned).

2) I never said a more sedate engine wasn't suited to the Accord. However, there is an awful lot of gray area between something that revs to 8k (which I have NEVER said I expected in an Accord) and something that is completely shitty int the top end.

3) torque production and top end are NOT mutually exclusive.
nash24
Profile for nash24
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-12-2012 06:38
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P54 wrote:
Maybe the beginning got lost in the economic downturn and following natural disasters. How many cars did Honda work on prior to 2009 that got scrapped/delayed? We hear about the coming of the new NSX after the one they worked on got scrapped. They have showed the EV-STER and talk about a new mid engine "baby NSX", the CR-Z is being changed and a new Type R is in the works. New power trains are in the work to. This new Accord is the first vehicle developed under the leadership of Ito and so far it seems most testers have positive feed back.

Was this the new sports car that got scrapped/delayed because of the economic downturn? It was almost production ready in 2008. Is it coming now?





And the new Civic that got scrapped:





The red car isnt the scrapped civic but the concept car years ago after gen 1 TSX and pre gen 2 TSX called the sports 4
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-12-2012 20:06
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notyper wrote:
S600=Dream wrote:
So, ehh, what *could* Honda potentially do to the new ED K24 to make it a proper performance engine?

Is there anything obvious that they could add to it to make it breathe better up top and rev harder, or is it just inherently designed to be a torquier, less revvy engine?

I wonder if they don't have something up their sleeves. From the initial reports of the ED engines, it seemed like there were a lot of possible angles they could have taken with it. I was under the impression that it was a tech'd out K series from the get-go, and they were tuning it initially for fuel economy, emissions, and for pulling a big fatass family sedan around.

Maybe there is another state of being for it that has it cranking out more of it's potential.

We all know the K had/has (?) tons of performance potential. Have they snubbed all that out with the ED tech?




There's nothing that says a direct injection engine can't make high rpm power (see Ferrari 458 V8). But you are going to potentially sacrifice bottom end torque, fuel economy and emissions performance.

The bigger issue with the K24W is the integrated exhaust manifold and the giant close coupled catalytic converter (and lack of exhaust VTEC). I don't care what you do on the intake side, if you're going to choke the motor on the exhaust side, you're going to limit your high rpm power potential.

As long as Honda insists on plunking that big old (literally thigh sized) catalytic converter 3" from the exhaust port, high rpm power is going to suffer. DI mixture issues and lack of exhaust VTEC are important, but irrelevant as long as that cat is there.

SC



The engine really needs a performance head. I mean it. Dual cam phasing, 4-2-1 manifold, high flow ports, the works. Now that Honda has DI and a high flow EGR, they SHOULD be able to make it work again for emissions.
S600=Dream
Profile for S600=Dream
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-12-2012 20:31
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Unrelated to the discussion of the K24-->

The question "Has Honda Redeemed Itself" is an impossible one to answer, at least at this point.

That said, the last time I saw the internet and TOV abuzz about a Honda product like this new Accord was when the 8th gen Civic was released.

I have to say I'm still in the minority in thinking that that car sucked, but then again, I haven't liked the Civic since they ditched the wishbones in the front.

I have, however, always been a big fan of the Accord, and this new one looks to be pretty good.

I wonder if the new V6/6MT coupe will be the new go-to performance car for Honda enthusiasts?

The Civic Si is basically a castrated shell of it's former self, and the CR-Z is a terrific commuter car (I actually like it a lot more than most people do), but admittedly it's a shitty performance car.

DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-13-2012 11:09
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They could use the V6 6MT powertrain as a starting point, but the coupe in current form is not something I'd call an enthusiast offering.

Bullwinkle
Profile for Bullwinkle
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-13-2012 13:32
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As everyone in the industry is seeing, the new science of performance engines is fraught with compromise, resulting in specific designs for specific purposes.

What I am afraid is going to be lost is the ability to take a low buck car-engine and hotrod it easily. The reason is clear from looking at the 4-cylinder accord. It's optimized for someone who looks like me demographically but is not like me psychographically.

I am 55. Most automakers assume that I want something like the 4-cylinder accord, with great mileage, good torque and cool simple technology. So everything about that car is there to do that.

Psychographically, all you have to know about me is that my daily driver is a 2002 s2000. And my Winter Beater car is a 2003 RSX type-s.

It used to be that you could start with the 4-cylinder engine in say a 2004-ish accord 4-door coupe, change out the heads and the exhaust and have something.

The 4 in the accord is too specific to its mission to be easily modified like that.

Getting back to our question: Has Honda redeemed itself?

In the sense that the new Accord is a much more Honda-like Accord than last year's Civic was a Honda-like Civic, the answer is a resounding yes. I have no doubt that this is the Best accord ever. Moreover, I have high hopes for the coming TL/TSX replacement that will be made from it.

As for sporty variants. Open issue. Can you make a sport version of the new DI 4? Probably, but it will be mission specific.

What I like most about what I have read about the new accord is that Honda definitely had a group of buyers mind, they knew what they wanted to make for them and they carried out that vision.

Seem to have done the same thing with the RDX/CRV. So Great!. My S2000 and my RSX are getting old. Give me something that fits my psychographic profile!
S600=Dream
Profile for S600=Dream
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-13-2012 14:03
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DCR wrote:
They could use the V6 6MT powertrain as a starting point, but the coupe in current form is not something I'd call an enthusiast offering.




Point taken, but within Honda's current lineup, I think it's an enthusiast car, if for no other reason than it's holy shit quick, especially for what it is. And it's not like it's a boat or anything in the handling department...I bet it handles at least as good as the Civic Si, if not *quite* as responsively.

I understand that it's more of a GT car at the end of the day, but hey, so is the Merc SL. It's definitely an enthusiast car in my book even though it handles like ten tons of wet paper towels.

It seems like Sean was having a pretty good time with it in in the video review.

Realistically speaking I've always wondered why Honda doesn't make a proper sporting thing out of the Accord coupe. Add a limited slip and stiffen up the suspension a bit: bammo, instant enthusiast car. It's begging for it!

notyper
Profile for notyper
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-13-2012 15:06
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Well put, Bullwinkle. This almost certainly is the best accord ever and Honda can feel proud of that. And the overall goodness and bullseye targeting of the RDX, CRV and Accord indicate elthat Honda can still get it right when they focus.

However, what that _also_ says to me is that theyve chosen to dump enthusiasts. I'll give Berkman a year to start showing tangible signs tha theyve chosen to reverse that decision. But I'm not optimistic he has the pull to make it happen. Certainly the ED tech doesnt seem to lend itself to sport/perf in the Honda tradition and technologically theyve been moving away from performance in other areas. A hybrid RL or NSX aren't going to cut it. They have to do more.

SC
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-13-2012 19:25
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notyper wrote:
Well put, Bullwinkle. This almost certainly is the best accord ever and Honda can feel proud of that. And the overall goodness and bullseye targeting of the RDX, CRV and Accord indicate elthat Honda can still get it right when they focus.

However, what that _also_ says to me is that theyve chosen to dump enthusiasts. I'll give Berkman a year to start showing tangible signs tha theyve chosen to reverse that decision. But I'm not optimistic he has the pull to make it happen. Certainly the ED tech doesnt seem to lend itself to sport/perf in the Honda tradition and technologically theyve been moving away from performance in other areas. A hybrid RL or NSX aren't going to cut it. They have to do more.

SC




This. I don't understand why the paradigms need be mutually exclusive.

My assumption is that it's an excuse to save money for the economic collapse.
CarPhreakD
Profile for CarPhreakD
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-13-2012 23:19
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If Honda made another purpose-built performance car of some sort (that isn't a CR-Z but accessible to most), I'm sure that minds would change. Unfortunately that market is a bit small at the moment- if this current revival of the auto industry continues (and I'm kind of skeptical) and SAARs continue to rise, we may yet see sports cars again.
sadlerau
Profile for sadlerau
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-13-2012 23:43
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CarPhreakD wrote:
If Honda made another purpose-built performance car of some sort (that isn't a CR-Z but accessible to most), I'm sure that minds would change. Unfortunately that market is a bit small at the moment- if this current revival of the auto industry continues (and I'm kind of skeptical) and SAARs continue to rise, we may yet see sports cars again.


The enthusiast market is shrinking at the moment, because so many of them are rushing out to buy the Toyota/Subaru twins :)
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2012 15:24
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sadlerau wrote:
CarPhreakD wrote:
If Honda made another purpose-built performance car of some sort (that isn't a CR-Z but accessible to most), I'm sure that minds would change. Unfortunately that market is a bit small at the moment- if this current revival of the auto industry continues (and I'm kind of skeptical) and SAARs continue to rise, we may yet see sports cars again.







The enthusiast market is shrinking at the moment, because so many of them are rushing out to buy the Toyota/Subaru twins :)



:D

Build a better mousetrap...

It'll be interesting to see the monthly sales breakouts!
DCR
Profile for DCR
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2012 15:57
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I would add that the enthusiast market isn't shrinking...it is moving to where it is supported, and likely growing again with an approachable entry price.
CarPhreakD
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Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2012 17:58
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DCR wrote:
I would add that the enthusiast market isn't shrinking...it is moving to where it is supported, and likely growing again with an approachable entry price.


I was thinking more midsize V6 sports coupe than low powered I4 sports coupes. The Toyobaru twins are selling reasonably well (they're not setting charts on fire, I'll say that much), but if they really wanted to capture enthusiasts they'd make it a hatchback =D
ciwai08
Profile for ciwai08
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2012 18:52
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They should consider something like an accord based sports coupe that is somewhat faithful to the prelude. A bit more cost effective than a rwd toyobaru competitor to satisfy the bean counters. It wouldn't have quite the handling capabilities, but at least would siphon off some sales volume and get some kind of enthusiast support.

[img=""]
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-14-2012 20:22
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ciwai08 wrote:
They should consider something like an accord based sports coupe that is somewhat faithful to the prelude. A bit more cost effective than a rwd toyobaru competitor to satisfy the bean counters. It wouldn't have quite the handling capabilities, but at least would siphon off some sales volume and get some kind of enthusiast support.
"]



There's almost there.... put an LSD on the V6 6MT and do an HPD job: suspension, summer tires and brakes. Leave the body kit out of the way, it doesn't need it.

I figure they could do something with a K24 but why bother when the V6 is already available and so much faster?




Midi_Amp
Profile for Midi_Amp
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2012 00:14
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TonyE wrote:
ciwai08 wrote:
They should consider something like an accord based sports coupe that is somewhat faithful to the prelude. A bit more cost effective than a rwd toyobaru competitor to satisfy the bean counters. It wouldn't have quite the handling capabilities, but at least would siphon off some sales volume and get some kind of enthusiast support.
"]



There's almost there.... put an LSD on the V6 6MT and do an HPD job: suspension, summer tires and brakes. Leave the body kit out of the way, it doesn't need it.

I figure they could do something with a K24 but why bother when the V6 is already available and so much faster?






+0.5 this. The other 0.5 is for Honda to build a dedicated car. As proven by the Civic SI Vs the Toyobaru, the latter is just too dedicated of a sport car to be beaten by horsepower alone. The Civic and Accord first and foremost are a commuter, with the hotter variant giving about 9/10 of what enthusiast want. Sure it can be made 10/10, but every car can be made track worthy.

With Honda green movement, I doubt we would get any car as big as an Accord as a sport alternative. Something Civic size with Civic platform but make it more low slung or if Honda still insists on their hybrid push, make next generation CR-Z with strut and multilink suspension like the Fit EV and make power around 140bhp with available SI version producing 200bhp. Not everybody would like it still, but hell, throw me rotten eggs and tomatoes, I'm willing to bet majority would like it.
Nick GravesX
Profile for Nick GravesX
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2012 11:28
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Ciwai,

a 5G 4WS 'Lude handles as well as a Toyobaru, just in a totally different way. One might argue, better than, in horrible weather.

A new 'Lude would inevitably be a class larger and the new Accordion would be the inevitable basis, but I doubt it would sell. Even if Honda actually managed to do a good job - exactly like they didn't do with the CR-Z. It would need PAWS & DW & non-dead steering & windows YOU CAN SEE OUT OF like a 'Lude of old, though.

The main reason it wouldn't sell being the badge snobs all want Audis & BMWs at that level. If it were an Aerodeck, I could probably even see myself in the market for such a car. But me alone...
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2012 16:53
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Midi_Amp wrote:
TonyE wrote:
ciwai08 wrote:
They should consider something like an accord based sports coupe that is somewhat faithful to the prelude. A bit more cost effective than a rwd toyobaru competitor to satisfy the bean counters. It wouldn't have quite the handling capabilities, but at least would siphon off some sales volume and get some kind of enthusiast support.
"]



There's almost there.... put an LSD on the V6 6MT and do an HPD job: suspension, summer tires and brakes. Leave the body kit out of the way, it doesn't need it.

I figure they could do something with a K24 but why bother when the V6 is already available and so much faster?






+0.5 this. The other 0.5 is for Honda to build a dedicated car. As proven by the Civic SI Vs the Toyobaru, the latter is just too dedicated of a sport car to be beaten by horsepower alone. The Civic and Accord first and foremost are a commuter, with the hotter variant giving about 9/10 of what enthusiast want. Sure it can be made 10/10, but every car can be made track worthy.

With Honda green movement, I doubt we would get any car as big as an Accord as a sport alternative. Something Civic size with Civic platform but make it more low slung or if Honda still insists on their hybrid push, make next generation CR-Z with strut and multilink suspension like the Fit EV and make power around 140bhp with available SI version producing 200bhp. Not everybody would like it still, but hell, throw me rotten eggs and tomatoes, I'm willing to bet majority would like it.




I'd rather see a dedicated platform for the RL and TL. From which there should be CLS like RL sedan and coupe, plus the LWB formal RL sedan.

That investment would pay off in that the top dog cars would now have a dedicated platform that would not be hampered by the necessities of the lower cost cars.

(This means that I would build a SWB Accord and call it TSX).

As far as sports cars.... well, I guess there is an uber NSX in the works... but what I think would work is another S car.. hopefully both in coupe and roadster form. This car would just need a high winding I4... Sell it at as a Honda for $37K.
Gfn8r
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Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2012 21:37
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ciwai08 wrote:
They should consider something like an accord based sports coupe that is somewhat faithful to the prelude. A bit more cost effective than a rwd toyobaru competitor to satisfy the bean counters. It wouldn't have quite the handling capabilities, but at least would siphon off some sales volume and get some kind of enthusiast support.

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Veeeeeeerrrrrrryyyyyyyy niiiiiiiiiice!!! I'd have this "Pre-ccord" or "Acc-lude" in my imaginary garage that comes after gaining unlimited funding!! ;-) AWD, 4WS, DCT (remember that I tried learning stick on my brother's 'Teg back in the day, much to his chagrin--if you can't learn stick on a Honda tranny, just stick to slushers, 'K?! :-( )

Anyone in the know: were all Prelude generations based off the Civic platforms of their time, or did the the 'lude become its own platform? (My personal fave is the generation prior to the last--the last-gen styling was just..too "out there!")

This 'chop captures the spirit of that gen 'lude perfectly! (Probably could meet lighting regs with proper LED headlights while still meeting the "prevent-Darwin-award" pedestrian crash-regs; looks like the hood itself retains the Accord's clearance.)

Nice work! (Neal, you've got company!)
TonyEX
Profile for TonyEX
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-15-2012 22:15
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Gfn8r wrote:


Veeeeeeerrrrrrryyyyyyyy niiiiiiiiiice!!! I'd have this "Pre-ccord" or "Acc-lude" in my imaginary garage that comes after gaining unlimited funding!! ;-) AWD, 4WS, DCT (remember that I tried learning stick on my brother's 'Teg back in the day, much to his chagrin--if you can't learn stick on a Honda tranny, just stick to slushers, 'K?! :-( )

Anyone in the know: were all Prelude generations based off the Civic platforms of their time, or did the the 'lude become its own platform? (My personal fave is the generation prior to the last--the last-gen styling was just..too "out there!")

This 'chop captures the spirit of that gen 'lude perfectly! (Probably could meet lighting regs with proper LED headlights while still meeting the "prevent-Darwin-award" pedestrian crash-regs; looks like the hood itself retains the Accord's clearance.)

Nice work! (Neal, you've got company!)



The Prelude rode in its own platform, that's why it got axed.

It was a great car... we owned one of the last ones, a 99 SH... in Red, of course. ;-D
Nick GravesX
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Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-16-2012 12:14
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The architecture was in fact very closely related to the EUDM Accord - hence our Accord Type-R, which was another brilliant and successful (as good-as-BMW!) model which started capturing peoples' imaginations.

Of course, Honda totally FUBARed capitalising on that, as well...
owequitit
Profile for owequitit
Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-17-2012 00:34
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Nick Graves wrote:
The architecture was in fact very closely related to the EUDM Accord - hence our Accord Type-R, which was another brilliant and successful (as good-as-BMW!) model which started capturing peoples' imaginations.

Of course, Honda totally FUBARed capitalising on that, as well...



Actually, every Accord and every Prelude from 1990-1997 (Accord) and 1992-2001(Prelude) shared much of their compentry. There were minor differences in detail stuff, but they were very, very similar.
Nick GravesX
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Re: Has Honda redeemed itself? Is this the beginning of a turnaround?    (Score: 1, Normal) 09-17-2012 06:50
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owequitit wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
The architecture was in fact very closely related to the EUDM Accord - hence our Accord Type-R, which was another brilliant and successful (as good-as-BMW!) model which started capturing peoples' imaginations.

Of course, Honda totally FUBARed capitalising on that, as well...



Actually, every Accord and every Prelude from 1990-1997 (Accord) and 1992-2001(Prelude) shared much of their compentry. There were minor differences in detail stuff, but they were very, very similar.




IIRC, it goes back earlier than that! The very first was in essence an Accord Coupe. It was merely that by the time of the 5G and the ATR, Honda was offering very well-developed cars that could rival six-pot BMWs in so many areas.

It seems ironic that Honda abandoned the D-coupe and sports saloon market, just as the Germans stormed back in. You cannot move for BMWs and M-Bs round here.
 
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