owequitit wrote: Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Don't forget that this was Honda's press event with a controlled route and no competition on hand.
Wait for the comparison tests when the testers are on familiar ground and have a chance to compared directly with the competition.
Insideline has already said the Altima is sportier...
My impression is that ever since the Altima became a midsize car, generally the Altima or Mazda 6 or both have been considered sportier segment competitors than the Accord, but that the Accord has been judged to be a better all-rounder. (Again, generally.) At any rate, as you wrote, we'll see with the new Accord and the comparos.
I would rather the Accord continue to be a better "all rounder" as has always been the case. However, it isn't clearly at the head of the class until it starts to bring home comparison test wins because you have to have them all next to each other in order to really compare them fairly.
Also, I would point out that I don't recall any mention of the loss of handling confidence when the Civic went to struts, but it was definitely there. Remember that they are trying to summarize a whole car in a few pages, so the major noteworthy things stand out.
However, Shawn's initial impressions put a bit at ease because I trust his judgement and usually find my conclusion to be pretty similar. But given Honda's inability to execute anything the last few years, I am sure you can understand my apprehension.
You need to shut up, dip into your bank account and pull out a couple of fistfolds for an Accord V6 6MT sedan.
I drove 4 of these models on a sunny day in California, tackling freeways, back roads, and light-traffic suburban streets. Starting with the navigation-equipped top-trim EX-L V-6 sedan, the one engine body combo that can only be had with Honda's six-speed automatic, I immediately noticed an area of improvement I had long awaited: Honda has finally implemented a truly integrated dashboard electronics suite.
"[T]he Accord drives as if it were constructed of old-fashioned Honda 'lightweightium.' It's not the lightest car in its segment, but it feels it. The steering, the brakes, and the suspension work in harmonious balance to make the Accord seem agile and springy. Yes, instead of control arms, it now has struts in the nose, but so does a Porsche Cayman. The Accord hustles through turns with fog-free steering and little complaint from the tires and never seems to be working very hard. You wanted a mid-size family sedan that feels as if it were made of recycled CRXs? Here’s your car."
(With regard to the struts, yes, I know the Accord is FWD while the Cayman is RWD, but hey, I didn't write it!)
Don't worry, he is just one of those "unwashed" test drivers. They do it for a living and just write what they are told by the ones who give them the paycheck. Where is TOV test report?
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Don't forget that this was Honda's press event with a controlled route and no competition on hand.
Wait for the comparison tests when the testers are on familiar ground and have a chance to compared directly with the competition.
Insideline has already said the Altima is sportier...
What makes you say that? Honda had a 2013 Altima, 2012 Camry and 2012 Hyundai Sonata available for test loops too. I haven't driven every Altima but the one that was there didn't feel any sportier than the Accord to me. In felt, the Accord's CVT felt MUCH better than the Altima's noisy and sluggish CVT.
It’s been 29 years since Honda first began building the Accord in the U.S., and its 30th year is looking just as good as the first. With its improved styling, aggressive V-6 engine and competent body control, the 2013 Accord both looks and feels like a car that should cost twice as much. Add to that more tech than most competing mid-sized cars and a host of compelling safety features and you have an exceptional vehicle that’s equal parts fun and smart.
The agility index varies according to model—some trim levels are tuned for softer ride quality, and tactile information delivered by the new electric system is programmed for more road feel with the sport suspension package—but even the most basic Accord LX is quick on its feet.
Similarly, body motions are well controlled, inspiring confidence in quick maneuvers—a critical active safety element in any car—and with the firmer suspension and more aggressive tires that go with the performance package, the Accord becomes a credible sports sedan. Or coupe.
2013 Honda Accord
2013 Honda Accord
While the foregoing isn’t surprising , how Honda got there represents a departure from recent practice. The rear suspension is a familiar multilink, but there are MacPherson struts up front, rather than the double wishbone setup that’s distinguished previous Accords.
Heresy? Keep in mind that BMW has been using struts for many years, albeit with rear-drive cars (the Accord, of course, continues with a front-drive layout). And did we mention that Honda claims a 40 percent improvement in torsional rigidity? That’s an almost incomprehensible increase over a chassis that was far from tofu.
Now's when we should tell you why quite a few shoppers might still consider the V-6: because it earns an astounding EPA highway rating of 34 mpg—the same number as the four-cylinder engine last year, and essentially the same as the Sonata Turbo.
Over several hours of real-world driving with the V-6—a mix of expressways, two-laners, and mountain roads, and some of it spirited—we managed an impressive 29 mpg overall; that's a figure we can't imagine beating in those turbo fours, and we much prefer the smooth, relaxed demeanor of the V-6 most of the time.
In a back-to-back drive with the Nissan Altima and its four-cylinder/CVT combination, we noticed that from about 15-20 mph—effectively rolling around a tight corner—then flooring the accelerator, the Accord managed to take off a lot faster, while it took the revs longer to rise in the Altima. We look forward to comparing these models—and their mileage—in future drives.
"[T]he Accord drives as if it were constructed of old-fashioned Honda 'lightweightium.' It's not the lightest car in its segment, but it feels it. The steering, the brakes, and the suspension work in harmonious balance to make the Accord seem agile and springy. Yes, instead of control arms, it now has struts in the nose, but so does a Porsche Cayman. The Accord hustles through turns with fog-free steering and little complaint from the tires and never seems to be working very hard. You wanted a mid-size family sedan that feels as if it were made of recycled CRXs? Here’s your car."
(With regard to the struts, yes, I know the Accord is FWD while the Cayman is RWD, but hey, I didn't write it!)
Don't worry, he is just one of those "unwashed" test drivers. They do it for a living and just write what they are told by the ones who give them the paycheck. Where is TOV test report?
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Don't forget that this was Honda's press event with a controlled route and no competition on hand.
Wait for the comparison tests when the testers are on familiar ground and have a chance to compared directly with the competition.
Insideline has already said the Altima is sportier...
What makes you say that? Honda had a 2013 Altima, 2012 Camry and 2012 Hyundai Sonata available for test loops too. I haven't driven every Altima but the one that was there didn't feel any sportier than the Accord to me. In felt, the Accord's CVT felt MUCH better than the Altima's noisy and sluggish CVT.
Mostly V6 results. Edmunds mentioned the Altima V6 having better numbers, and it is generally considered very sporty in reviews, with the Altima usually delivering among top performance results.
Personally, I have always preferred Honda's way to Nissan's and understand that the objective measures aren't everything. I am actually looking forward to a drive of this car.
A77 wrote: That's always been Honda's intention. Looking at all Honda's training and comparison notes from when the 8 gen was launched - the car was trying to find the "perfect balance" between the soft and floaty but comfy Camry and the harder edged sporty Altima. I have the feeling that with this Accord with both a sport and non sport version they are attempting to cover both ends of this middle ground more effectively. Also wonder if they have too given struts' inferiority at providing both at the same time....maybe.
Best initial comments for a Honda I have seen in at least 6 years. Though I hazard to guess the 8 civic was greeted with equal praise.
I think Honda has gone for the middle ground between sport and comfort for much of the past 10 years.
The 8G Civic was tilted more towards sporty (as opposed to the offerings from Toyota and Hyundai), but not to the same degree as the Mazda3 and VW Golf/Rabbit/Whatevertheycallitnow.
I'm not sure how the press really felt about the 8G Civic... it handily won Motor Trend's car of the year, but it was so unorthodox for its time that much of the reaction was also shock and horror -- particularly at the 2-tier dash. But love it or hate it, the 8G Civic had everyone talking. The car was just too interesting in all aspects to be ignored, and the controversy must have generated a lot of helpful buzz with consumers.
With all these initial high praises, I wouldnt be surprise that the accord be named MotorTrend car of the year, C&D 10 best, North American COY, and other recognitions.
tennis32828 wrote: With all these initial high praises, I wouldnt be surprise that the accord be named MotorTrend car of the year, C&D 10 best, North American COY, and other recognitions.
+1
Yes. I think it's likely to win a shelf of awards....At least I hope so!
tennis32828 wrote: With all these initial high praises, I wouldnt be surprise that the accord be named MotorTrend car of the year, C&D 10 best, North American COY, and other recognitions.
+1
Yes. I think it's likely to win a shelf of awards....At least I hope so!
It's definitely shaping up that way! Looking forward to comparisons with the usual suspects.
tennis32828 wrote: With all these initial high praises, I wouldnt be surprise that the accord be named MotorTrend car of the year, C&D 10 best, North American COY, and other recognitions.
Eh! I am not sure about the MTCOTY.
Scott Evans wrote: I wouldn't say I hated it, but I'm hardly blown away. It's damn quick in a straight line. I had a bit of fun just passing people on the freeway in the manual V-6 coupe. From there, though, it's kind of a let down. The steering isn't as good, the handling isn't as good, the auto trans isn't as good and it torque steers. It's just ok, which I guess in a segment as competitive as this, is actually pretty not good.
tennis32828 wrote: With all these initial high praises, I wouldnt be surprise that the accord be named MotorTrend car of the year, C&D 10 best, North American COY, and other recognitions.
+1
Yes. I think it's likely to win a shelf of awards....At least I hope so!
K, great. Now that we have all of this money pre-printed, how about they build something exciting?
tennis32828 wrote: With all these initial high praises, I wouldnt be surprise that the accord be named MotorTrend car of the year, C&D 10 best, North American COY, and other recognitions.
+1
Yes. I think it's likely to win a shelf of awards....At least I hope so!
K, great. Now that we have all of this money pre-printed, how about they build something exciting?
"This is our most important car," said Takuji Yamada, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co. "This car is who we are."
The Accord is Honda's make-or-break profit center. More than 11 million have been sold in the United States since the car was launched 36 years and eight generations ago. But the Accord has slipped in sales, share and consideration as other automakers' mid-sized sedans have improved...
Honda cannot afford another public humiliation like the one it received with the lambasting of the cheap interior materials used in the 2012 Civic redesign. The Accord is the car that defines whether Honda has regained its mojo.
Honda Motor has taken its lumps of late from a string of uninspired products; the Japan earthquake that crippled its r&d operations, making it the hardest hit of any Japanese automaker; the Thailand flooding that smashed a chunk of its supplier network; and a strong yen that squeezes the profit from dollar-denominated U.S. sales.
Ito's watch
The 2013 Accord also is the first Honda developed completely under the watch of Ito, who took command of Honda Motor in February 2009 soon after the global economy imploded.
Ito, an engineer who helped develop the aluminum body of the Acura NSX supercar, also has taken his lumps. He formally took blame for the Civic's cheap interior, saying he approved a last-minute removal of content from the car to lower its price in the slumping U.S. market. But Ito also gave the underlying message that such an error would not be repeated.
At the Accord press event here, a phalanx of Japanese engineers beamed with pride -- indeed, with rarely seen swagger -- when standing next to their new charge. That also was a sea change, for two reasons: First, there was little mention of U.S. engineering involvement in the car's development, whereas Honda's PR message normally reinforces how "American" a vehicle is. And, second, for the past several years, Honda engineers typically have been reserved rather than boastful.
Might this be the start of a renaissance at Honda?
Big changes
Shoji Matsui: No excuses allowed
For the 2013 Accord redesign, Honda called on a 30-year veteran to be chief engineer.
Shoji Matsui engineered Accords for the 1986 to 1996 model years -- the car's heyday, when its road performance and refinements gave it an aura of prestige. Matsui's first job was to design the fuel-filler cover for the 1986 model. His mentor: Takanobu Ito. For the 2013 car, Matsui says his mission from Ito was to "put our power together on this, without excuses."
They had good things to say about pretty much everything except the Electric Power Steering, which the reviewer thought was too dead-on-center at highway speeds.
"This is our most important car," said Takuji Yamada, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co. "This car is who we are."
The Accord is Honda's make-or-break profit center. More than 11 million have been sold in the United States since the car was launched 36 years and eight generations ago. But the Accord has slipped in sales, share and consideration as other automakers' mid-sized sedans have improved...
Honda cannot afford another public humiliation like the one it received with the lambasting of the cheap interior materials used in the 2012 Civic redesign. The Accord is the car that defines whether Honda has regained its mojo.
Honda Motor has taken its lumps of late from a string of uninspired products; the Japan earthquake that crippled its r&d operations, making it the hardest hit of any Japanese automaker; the Thailand flooding that smashed a chunk of its supplier network; and a strong yen that squeezes the profit from dollar-denominated U.S. sales.
Ito's watch
The 2013 Accord also is the first Honda developed completely under the watch of Ito, who took command of Honda Motor in February 2009 soon after the global economy imploded.
Ito, an engineer who helped develop the aluminum body of the Acura NSX supercar, also has taken his lumps. He formally took blame for the Civic's cheap interior, saying he approved a last-minute removal of content from the car to lower its price in the slumping U.S. market. But Ito also gave the underlying message that such an error would not be repeated.
At the Accord press event here, a phalanx of Japanese engineers beamed with pride -- indeed, with rarely seen swagger -- when standing next to their new charge. That also was a sea change, for two reasons: First, there was little mention of U.S. engineering involvement in the car's development, whereas Honda's PR message normally reinforces how "American" a vehicle is. And, second, for the past several years, Honda engineers typically have been reserved rather than boastful.
Might this be the start of a renaissance at Honda?
Big changes
Shoji Matsui: No excuses allowed
For the 2013 Accord redesign, Honda called on a 30-year veteran to be chief engineer.
Shoji Matsui engineered Accords for the 1986 to 1996 model years -- the car's heyday, when its road performance and refinements gave it an aura of prestige. Matsui's first job was to design the fuel-filler cover for the 1986 model. His mentor: Takanobu Ito. For the 2013 car, Matsui says his mission from Ito was to "put our power together on this, without excuses."
Another big change is the front suspension, which has switched from double wishbones to McPherson struts. Normally, I don't write much about this sort of thing; as long as the car drives well, I don't care if they attach the wheels with bananas and paper clips. But the new suspension makes a big difference: While the Accord now handles far more responsively than its competitors, the ride quality has gone down the tubes. It isn't hard, but it's very busy -- the suspension allows the body to move up and down with such great frequency, rapidity and duration that smooth roads feel bumpy and bumpy roads fell like the surface of the Moon. It's as if, in response to charges that the Civic (Honda's last McPherson design) was too soft, they made the Accord too firm. Oddly enough, the Sport version -- which gets more aggressive suspension tuning -- has a slightly more comfortable ride.
Another big change is the front suspension, which has switched from double wishbones to McPherson struts. Normally, I don't write much about this sort of thing; as long as the car drives well, I don't care if they attach the wheels with bananas and paper clips. But the new suspension makes a big difference: While the Accord now handles far more responsively than its competitors, the ride quality has gone down the tubes. It isn't hard, but it's very busy -- the suspension allows the body to move up and down with such great frequency, rapidity and duration that smooth roads feel bumpy and bumpy roads fell like the surface of the Moon. It's as if, in response to charges that the Civic (Honda's last McPherson design) was too soft, they made the Accord too firm. Oddly enough, the Sport version -- which gets more aggressive suspension tuning -- has a slightly more comfortable ride.
Think of the new Honda Accord PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle) as a Chevrolet Volt in disguise, one that recharges in just an hour. The Volt shouts “different” to the neighbors while the Accord plug-in whispers its differences compared to conventional Volts and Toyota Priuses. If you want your PHEV to announce itself, Honda isn’t playing the self-gratification game. That’s a challenge in a country where most people don’t drop a dollar in the barista’s tip jar until she’s watching. For what may be sound engineering and cost reasons, the Accord runs 10-15 miles on battery power while the Volt goes 30-35. All this adds up to a roomy, comfortable car for 4-5 that will be in need of practical-minded buyers. The Accord PHEV looks the same as the 350,000 other new Accords likely to be bought in the US in 2013. As public recharging stations take hold, the Accord PHEV’s quick charge time may turn into a significant advantage. It will probably cost around $35,000 when it goes on sale in early 2013.
A test drive of the Accord PHEV is a non-event. It’s quiet, quick, roomy in back, expends energy going uphill and gets a lot of it back heading downhill. When the gasoline Earth Dreams four-cylinder gasoline engine kicks in, it’s unobtrusive and isn’t buzzy or raspy. On one test loop at a Honda media event, the EV battery was almost depleted. Plug in the industry-standard J1772 charge connector and in less than 10 minutes on 220-volt charge the battery was almost half full. In urban driving, my loop of eight miles should have exhausted the partially charged battery but I finished with three miles of battery juice showing.
And it's not even close. The Accord trounces the Camry in nearly every category, from performance to fuel economy to interior quality & design.
As usual, it's the total package that makes this car special. The new four-cylinder engine and CVT work incredibly well together, providing usable performance and a real-world improvement in fuel consumption. Honda also improved the look and feel of the cabin, while adding the tech features that have become important in this class. In the midst of checking all those boxes, company executives didn't lose sight of details like handling and steering feel — key ingredients in the character of Accords past and present.
Next to the Accord, the 2012 Toyota Camry LE is down on flavor. It's every bit as useful as the Honda on the inside, but on the road, it's slower and wholly uninterested in doing anything other than taking you to work in comfort.For some, that's enough, especially given this LE model's competitive price tag.
But we'll pay a bit more for the 2013 Honda Accord's tastier brew. For the moment, it's the car to have in the four-cylinder midsize sedan class.
Seems like a sport version of the V6 would fit the bill here. Car is plenty quick just needs some help in braking and roadholding (which can be fixed by the suspension tuning and tires on the Sport) I would be curious as to the volume of Camry V6 Sports and why Honda chose not to give that option. I am sure there are plenty of people who would love that in the sedan. Ideally I would like an EXL-V6 sport with a 6MT but if I cant get the 6MT i would be happy with the other. I have to wonder how much a dealer would charge to swap the base tires/wheels with the 18" sport versions.
And it's not even close. The Accord trounces the Camry in nearly every category, from performance to fuel economy to interior quality & design.
As usual, it's the total package that makes this car special. The new four-cylinder engine and CVT work incredibly well together, providing usable performance and a real-world improvement in fuel consumption. Honda also improved the look and feel of the cabin, while adding the tech features that have become important in this class. In the midst of checking all those boxes, company executives didn't lose sight of details like handling and steering feel — key ingredients in the character of Accords past and present.
Next to the Accord, the 2012 Toyota Camry LE is down on flavor. It's every bit as useful as the Honda on the inside, but on the road, it's slower and wholly uninterested in doing anything other than taking you to work in comfort.For some, that's enough, especially given this LE model's competitive price tag.
But we'll pay a bit more for the 2013 Honda Accord's tastier brew. For the moment, it's the car to have in the four-cylinder midsize sedan class.
nice! though they should have used a Camry XLE instead of the LE. Not that it would have changed the outcome, but the prices and features are more comparable.
Summary of Accord vs. Camry test from Inside Line (Edmunds):
1st Place: 2013 Honda Accord EX
The Accord is once again the epitome of good taste in the four-cylinder midsize sedan class. It's quicker, more fuel-efficient and overall more enjoyable to drive than the Toyota, and it has a nicer cabin to boot.
2nd Place: 2012 Toyota Camry LE
We won't stop you from buying a Camry, especially if you like a compliant ride. But its automatic transmission isn't as responsive as Honda's CVT, and its interior belongs to a lower income bracket.