P54
 |
|
While "everybody" is busy "tearing down" the new Accord for this or that let's see what Ford is doing.
So far Honda has been keeping its engine sizes or even upped it on certain models and new engines to come so far has been I4 and V6 and the only I4 Turbo they had was replaced with a smooth V6. Other makers have killed V6 and gone to I4's and even to 2 and 3 cyl. engines with turbo. BMW has announced they are at the end of line with current technology and future engines will be I3 turbo. Honda had a 3 cyl 13 years ago on the Insight, however nothing now. Honda is supposed to come out with a I4 1.6L turbo for a new "R" model.
Back to Ford, they have developed a iron block 3 cyl. 1.0L engine and I guess Focus and Fiesta got the engine. Ford is not content with that and call their latest Mondeo a "game changer". The new Ford Mondeo in Europe (I guess Fusion in the USA) is coming out with Ford's new 3 cyl 1.0L Eco Boost engine, in what Ford calls cutting edge technology. The engine is 2012 International engine of the year.
Now how would the Honda people here feel if the new Accord came out with a 3 cyl 1.0 L engine?
Ford Mondeo, now with 3 cyl. 1.0 L engine.
http://news.sky.com/story/981564/honda-and-jaguar-land-rover-invest-in-uk-sites
|
longhorn
|
|
|
I say go for it, only if the mpgs are substantially better than 4cyl motors. Why must one buy a car with heavy and expensive to replace batteries to get great gas mileage?.....
|
CivicB18
|
|
Even though the Ecoboost engines are powerful I've yet to see any impressive real world fuel economy numbers.
~Patrick
|
6SPDTL
|
|
|
Well my f150 Eboost gets the same FE as a Ridgeline while it weighs almost a ton more, has an additional >100hp (365), twice the torque (420) and pulls >twice the load. If thats not damn impressive FE I dont know what is. :)
|
ClementZ
|
|
Wouldn't this lead to the same problem that has plagued many turbo engines?
Better EPA numbers, but normally worse real numbers, unless one is feather-light with the throttle?
I see why the 3 cyl worked well in the Fiesta and Focus (both cars are relatively light), but unless the Fusion is similarly light, I think an I4 would work better.
|
Atomic Frog
|
|
I think his point is ... if the Accord came with such an engine, we'd be tearing apart Honda for a bunch of weenies and creating such a non-exciting car, compromising on this and that and whatever else.
I'm not saying Ford's application to the Mondeo/Fusion is a good idea. I don't know.
|
Inebriated Snake
|
|
The main reason for this downsizing is the way cars are taxed in Europe (displacement and emmissions). Putting the 1.0L in the Mondeo makes it more affordable to own.
Most reviewers have liked the 1.6L and 1.0L ecoboost, but what mpg they get depends on the application. For instance the 1.6 in the Focus only gets slightly better fuel economy that the 2.0L 4cyl. But being taxed less makes it the better choice over the 2.0.
|
slipper
|
|
|
Hopefully Ford can work some magic with those small displacement turbocharged engines. So far with my experience with small displacement turbocharged engines have been less than pleasurable to drive with its very linear gas pedal and less than inspiring with the power band dropping off way before redline.
|
slipper
|
|
|
Hopefully Ford can work some magic with those small displacement turbocharged engines. So far with my experience with small displacement turbocharged engines have been less than pleasurable to drive with its very linear gas pedal and less than inspiring with the power band dropping off way before redline.
|
6SPDTL
|
|
Sound like the RDX
|
TonyEX
|
|
6SPDTL wrote:
Well my f150 Eboost gets the same FE as a Ridgeline while it weighs almost a ton more, has an additional >100hp (365), twice the torque (420) and pulls >twice the load. If thats not damn impressive FE I dont know what is. :)
|
Hmm.. I daresay that the power and towing capacity of your truck come into play when the turbo kicks in, huh?
You get good mileage when you drive it lightly loaded and reasonably, huh? Do you get that mileage when you are using all that power and all that towing capacity?
What happens when you drive it loaded? What happens to your mileage when you dip into that turbo?
The bottom line is that there is a lower limit below which an engine is just too small for a car. It may do fine in the non stressing EPA tests, but out in the real world applications you find such an undersized engine spends a lot of its time at wide open throttle where mileage sucks.
Sometimes, a larger engine, operating at part throttle will get better mileage in real world conditions.
So, the fine line is the EPA test. An automaker can size the engine so it will never run wide open in the EPA test, hence published great mileage but awful mileage/ bad behavior in real world conditions.
This addresses the I3 in a car.
Now, your truck is a different beast because trucks can be used lightly or heavily loaded. The EPA test does not take this into account.
The V6 has enough power to tool around the heavy vehicle in the real world when the truck is used lightly. I dare say that if you load it or start towing then your mileage will drop quite a bit. Perhaps worse mileage than a bigger engine.
The Ridgeline has a midrange engine, neither very small nor very powerful and normally aspirated.
|
JDMImport
|
|
Hmm.. I daresay that the power and towing capacity of your truck come into play when the turbo kicks in, huh?
|
Tow rating is due to the F-150 being an actual truck and having a frame, not a crossover platform like the Ridgeline which is unibody construction.
|
JDMImport
|
|
CivicB18 wrote:
Even though the Ecoboost engines are powerful I've yet to see any impressive real world fuel economy numbers.
~Patrick
|
Me neither. Head over to the EcoBoost F-150 forums and there are many, many unhappy people in regards to economy.
|
P54
|
|
|
Many people buy a vehicle looking at the peak power and the EPA. A turbo engine can have high HP rating and a good EPA HWY rating. Problem is the HWY rating is without boost or barely so. Once you tap into the power you have to have boost and that is when the fuel is sucked in, your EPA numbers just vanish. No power without fuel, you want power you can forget about FE with a turbo engine.
|
DrWhiner
|
|
|
Dare I say, in Western Europe, passenger vehicles are taxed according to carbon emission (fuel mileage as tested), not displacement.
|
P54
|
|
DrWhiner wrote:
Dare I say, in Western Europe, passenger vehicles are taxed according to carbon emission (fuel mileage as tested), not displacement.
|
Different rules in different countries. Popular now is extra tax if high CO2. Some countries tax on HP, some engine size, some weight of vehicle, some whether gas or diesel or electric, and some on all of the above. That is why small engines, 2 or 3 cyl, from .8-1.5L is gaining in popularity and HP in the 50-100 HP range. Some countries give tax break on road tax if under a certain CO2 value, others have vehicle tax connected to CO2 output. (Influencing the retail price of the car).
|
superchg2
|
|
That's a whole lot of car for a 1.0 liter engine to be pulling around, Turbo or no Turbo.
Kinda' like them putting the 2.0 Ecoboost in the 4,500 lb. Explorer.
...and Lord help you if the turbo ever takes a powder!
:)
|
|
|
| |
![[home]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/home.gif){kind=small}
![[rumors and news]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/rumors.gif){kind=small}
![[model release matrix]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/newmodelreleasematrix.gif){kind=small}
![[dealer network]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/dealernet.gif){kind=small}
![[desktop calendar]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/calendar.gif){kind=small}
![[exhaust notes]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/exhaust.gif){kind=small}
![[tov forums]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/forums.gif){kind=small}
![[links]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/links.gif){kind=small}
![[search]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/search.gif){kind=small}
![[sponsors]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/sponsors.gif){kind=small}
![[garage]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/garage.gif){kind=small}
![[login]](http://sohc.vtec.net/elem04/login.gif){kind=small}
