WongKN
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Some TOV members posted some info on the CR-Z MMC that is coming on the 27th of this month (September 2012) for the JDM. But they posted it into the feedback section of the TOV Accord launch news article. So I thought I will pick up the info and collect them all into a TOVA Honda Fan post available here -> http://tovahondafan.blogspot.com/2012/09/new-honda-cr-z-coming-this-month.html.
If anyone have any more info, especially on that rather interesting 'KERS'-type function, please do share. Again I will collect all info into TOVA Honda-Fan so that readers can get all info from a single place.
Attention RolledaNsx, anything you can share ? Thanks in advance.
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RolledaNsx
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Not the 1.6L turbo,the Civic gets it first(will be announced at Paris around the same time).
The first look at the second generation of IMA.
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WongKN
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Eh ?? I thought the new 9G HCH already debutted the 2nd generation IMA, with LiOn battery and a new IMA motor ?
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RolledaNsx
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9G HCH have the push to pass?
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KS34
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New 1.5l DOHC ED engine + IMA?
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RolledaNsx
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1.5L DOHC ED engine and lithium battery is my educated guess.
My friends are mum on it.
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P54
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RolledaNsx wrote:
1.5L DOHC ED engine and lithium battery is my educated guess.
My friends are mum on it.
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Why not the 1.8 or 2.0 L ED to make it more "sport"?
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RolledaNsx
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To learn more about the push-to-pass read about the HPD CR-Z.
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owequitit
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P54 wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
1.5L DOHC ED engine and lithium battery is my educated guess.
My friends are mum on it.
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Why not the 1.8 or 2.0 L ED to make it more "sport"?
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It would burn more gas, and make more CO2. You have made it abundantly clear that the only technology that matters for Hondas is the green-weenie pleasing kind.
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P54
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owequitit wrote:
P54 wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
1.5L DOHC ED engine and lithium battery is my educated guess.
My friends are mum on it.
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Why not the 1.8 or 2.0 L ED to make it more "sport"?
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It would burn more gas, and make more CO2. You have made it abundantly clear that the only technology that matters for Hondas is the green-weenie pleasing kind.
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Oh, get over it owe, if Honda can't please you go check out the new Ford Mondeo (Fusion) with 1.0L 3 cyl. engine.
And mind you, new sporty Honda's will be clean too. See, they are part of today's society and take responsibility for the regulations that is imposed upon them from the various governments of the world. And still deliver power.
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dohc89
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I'm going to just say it. Honda should be a damned shamed of themselves for allowing the CR-Z to languish as it has. What's the "R" supposed to stand for Renissance? I think not. There is nothing special about this car that you couldn't get from a pre-owned '88-'91 CRX Si with a few aftermarket parts, and leaving the engine stock. I was hoping for a toy to have to go along with my Ridgeline, and RL, and give my 1988 Prelude Si 4WS a rest. After driving the CR-Z, I feel more enthusiasm from my Prelude. I am seriously disappointed with Honda for forgetting their roots, and forgetting us 40 something year olds who were there when things were right. Just creating one additional model with at least 180hp would do the trick for me. Handling was fine (still not at the Prelude's level), but fine. Honda better get it together, or my driveway will be sporting a Subaru BRZ.
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dohc89
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I'm going to just say it. Honda should be a damned shamed of themselves for allowing the CR-Z to languish as it has. What's the "R" supposed to stand for Renissance? I think not. There is nothing special about this car that you couldn't get from a pre-owned '88-'91 CRX Si with a few aftermarket parts, and leaving the engine stock. I was hoping for a toy to have to go along with my Ridgeline, and RL, and give my 1988 Prelude Si 4WS a rest. After driving the CR-Z, I feel more enthusiasm from my Prelude. I am seriously disappointed with Honda for forgetting their roots, and forgetting us 40 something year olds who were there when things were right. Just creating one additional model with at least 180hp would do the trick for me. Handling was fine (still not at the Prelude's level), but fine. Honda better get it together, or my driveway will be sporting a Subaru BRZ.
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RolledaNsx
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WongKN
Sept 27 is the press day for the 2012 Paris Auto Show and the Euro press got the hint that info about the type "r" will be release then.They guessed it would be the Civic.... want if their guess was wrong and it's the CR-Z?
I could be wrong but I think the WTCC engine must be in production to race(min 2500) and racing starts Spring 2012.
The Euro press stated that the Civic R wouldn't go on sale until 2014.
So we get a CR-Z "R" in 2013 the the Civic "R"
Honda loves pulling fast ones on the press!!!!!!
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FiSH-Chan
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RolledaNsx wrote:
1.5L DOHC ED engine and lithium battery is my educated guess.
My friends are mum on it.
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Maybe I should not get too excited, but 'push to pass' is finally coming! It's pretty good news. And even if it's an educated guess, 1.5 DOHC ED + lithium sounds pretty good.
Now if only I could win the lottery.
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FiSH-Chan
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RolledaNsx wrote:
WongKN
Sept 27 is the press day for the 2012 Paris Auto Show and the Euro press got the hint that info about the type "r" will be release then.They guessed it would be the Civic.... want if their guess was wrong and it's the CR-Z?
The Euro press stated that the Civic R wouldn't go on sale until 2014.
So we get a CR-Z "R" in 2013 the the Civic "R"
Honda loves pulling fast ones on the press!!!!!! |
Well I hope you're right as I thought a CR-Z Type R would make a bit sense (well mostly for Japan anyway, since Type R is usually for JDM ). If true hopefully it should come with a independent rear.
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Midi_Amp
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FiSH-Chan wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
WongKN
Sept 27 is the press day for the 2012 Paris Auto Show and the Euro press got the hint that info about the type "r" will be release then.They guessed it would be the Civic.... want if their guess was wrong and it's the CR-Z?
The Euro press stated that the Civic R wouldn't go on sale until 2014.
So we get a CR-Z "R" in 2013 the the Civic "R"
Honda loves pulling fast ones on the press!!!!!! |
Well I hope you're right as I thought a CR-Z Type R would make a bit sense (well mostly for Japan anyway, since Type R is usually for JDM ). If true hopefully it should come with a independent rear.
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I'm 85% sure it won't have independent rear suspension like the electric Fit/Jazz. The CR-Z/Fit/Insight strut-torsion beam combo creates a deep well on the cargo side which the battery is placed. The electric Fit/Jazz battery is on the floor, perhaps occupying the space where the fuel tank once goes and freeing up the rear chassis. Since the car is a bit taller, might as well use independent rear to more effectively counter body roll.
So if the CR-Z got independent rear suspension treatment, the battery won't have any place to go but up and it will change the center of gravity.
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Midi_Amp
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WongKN wrote:
Some TOV members posted some info on the CR-Z MMC that is coming on the 27th of this month (September 2012) for the JDM. But they posted it into the feedback section of the TOV Accord launch news article. So I thought I will pick up the info and collect them all into a TOVA Honda Fan post available here -> http://tovahondafan.blogspot.com/2012/09/new-honda-cr-z-coming-this-month.html.
If anyone have any more info, especially on that rather interesting 'KERS'-type function, please do share. Again I will collect all info into TOVA Honda-Fan so that readers can get all info from a single place.
Attention RolledaNsx, anything you can share ? Thanks in advance.
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I found it weird mr. Wong, for the CR-Z to have a push to pass feature like this... It's counter intuitive, not very Honda like. The car already have econ, normal and sport mode, and to have push to pass button I'm thinking that it will override the normal and econ mode straight to sport mode. However if this is a push to pass/KERS/add more marginal power on demand, why don't Honda just integrate the function to sport mode? Map out more aggressive throttle response and boost the assist mode on WOT application or above certain RPM.
The push to pass concept sounded very toy-ish. Except that Honda don't want to kill the battery from constant over boosting and the S+ is there to create a sense of "power on tap" and let the user decide how fast the battery is going to die.
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FiSH-Chan
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Midi_Amp wrote:
I found it weird mr. Wong, for the CR-Z to have a push to pass feature like this... It's counter intuitive, not very Honda like. The car already have econ, normal and sport mode, and to have push to pass button I'm thinking that it will override the normal and econ mode straight to sport mode. However if this is a push to pass/KERS/add more marginal power on demand, why don't Honda just integrate the function to sport mode? Map out more aggressive throttle response and boost the assist mode on WOT application or above certain RPM.
The push to pass concept sounded very toy-ish. Except that Honda don't want to kill the battery from constant over boosting and the S+ is there to create a sense of "power on tap" and let the user decide how fast the battery is going to die.
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Interesting thought. Push to Pass could also very easily be used on the end of the pedal floor where you simply just push WOT it to activate it.
But whatexactly does S+ mean? Speed+? Sport+? So it is possible that it is not a P2P but something else that could have features and among one of those is like a P2P.
As for the independent rear suspension, yeah I am thinking not very likely.. but it is possible that they could still put the battery where they like. Still chances to surprise us...
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owequitit
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P54 wrote:
owequitit wrote:
P54 wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
1.5L DOHC ED engine and lithium battery is my educated guess.
My friends are mum on it.
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Why not the 1.8 or 2.0 L ED to make it more "sport"?
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It would burn more gas, and make more CO2. You have made it abundantly clear that the only technology that matters for Hondas is the green-weenie pleasing kind.
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Oh, get over it owe, if Honda can't please you go check out the new Ford Mondeo (Fusion) with 1.0L 3 cyl. engine.
And mind you, new sporty Honda's will be clean too. See, they are part of today's society and take responsibility for the regulations that is imposed upon them from the various governments of the world. And still deliver power.
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I don't need to get over shit. I am not the one who justifies Honda's continual decline by preaching about how awesome their green technology is. This is where I use your 6 month ED crusade against you...
A bigger engine would make the car pollute more. And it would make it all boy racerish, which would be irresponsible of Honda.
And apparently Honda's sporty cars can't be clean, because in order to be clean, they have cancelled or neutered every single fun car they made, save the V6 Accord coupe. Oh yeah, and Honda hasn't really had any significant increases in power in oh...about 12 years now for the 4-cylinders and about 7 years for the V6.
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WongKN
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Firstly, thanks very much to RolledaNsx for giving me, us, all these invaluable info !! Really appreciate it. And yes, I have talked to Jeff and he too agrees you have contributed lots of great info. Thanks again ! And also to the others as well who have contributed to make this thread interesting.
I too have been under the impression that this 'push to pass' or p2p button is simply another feature, some might even call it 'gimmick', like the engine start button (the CR-Z I tested doesn't have keyless start, so the engine start button was just a fancy feature to have, don't get me wrong, it was nice to have). But what have been told and discussed, I wonder if it might be something more.
When I wrote the tech overview for the CR-Z, there was a chart in the materials which plotted IMA assist at WOT versus 'elapsed time'. Basically at WOT, the IMA assist in Sports mode will peak but after a period of time will taper off. I could not find any data on how long this period is. But I have already published my impressions from driving the CR-Z 6MT up to Gentings Highlands resort, my much talked about 'Genting run' and while the CR-Z 6MT handles the hairpins well, I made it very clear that what was lacking was the high-rpm 'grunt'. Meaning the CR-Z 6MT could not pull all the way up the straights linking successive hairpins. So, as I wrote in that article, while I was able to outpull a 7G (preMMC) Accord 2.4l over the hairpin, I was not confident I would be able to pull a gap to it on the straight to the next hairpin and I never tried to overtake the Accord which was trying to block me on the hairpins themselves and was pushing it to the max.
If the P2P button runs the IMA assist at max boost until the battery charge drops to, say 2 or 3 bars (out of 8), that would improve the drive tremendously. And it would also improve the passing ability of the CR-Z tremendously as well.
The other thing Honda might want to do would be to have a mode where there is no IMA assist and battery charging occurs at every opportunity, or maybe to activate forced charging. So I would activate forced charging which would ensure battery charge level stays reasonably high and use the P2P button to pass. In say track driving, when I am stuck behind a car I want to pass, I get the slip-streaming effect and get into forced charging while waiting for the proper straight. Once we are there, I use the P2P to execute the pass. Then I can go back into normal Sports mode to pull a gap on the passed vehicle. Scenarios like that. Or when I am stuck behind a slower vehicle on trunk (country) roads which single lane traffic, I go into forced charging and might get the battery up to full or near full charge. Now the opposite lane clears up and I use the P2P to pass the slower vehicle and I get full benefit as I have a fully charged battery. This can even allow me to overtake a train of slow vehicles in one go, something I -know for a fact- I enjoy doing very much in such situations in my DA6 Integra, especially after I turbo-charged it.
So the P2P feature if implemented intelligently, has the opportunity to make the CR-Z a bit better.
I am intrigued by another forumer's info that the engine will be a 'little bit' more powerful. How much more ? I was one of quite a few who put down 'on record', i.e. I posted, that we would be 'acceptable' if the power was something like 135 or 140hp for a 'starter' CR-Z, i.e. the first effort if it is 140hp instead of 124hp, would have made the CR-Z much less dissapointing. Would 16hp be considered 'a little bit' more ? If this 'little bit more' info is correct, then I am afraid the 1.6l turbo will not be coming. Or maybe Honda will introduce a 130-140hp CR-Z -and- a CR-Z Type-R with 1.6l turbo. If this happens, then I REALLY REALLY HOPE, that we won't end up in yet another VERY FAMILIAR situation - we all know it painfully well "Oh yes, CR-Z Type-R, sorry THAT ONE IS FOR JAPAN ONLY". You know, Honda is famous for committing harakiri...
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RolledaNsx
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If it happens "R" it will be only Japan and Euro the rest of the World may get a Si until FMC. Also in your country the hybrid tax break ends in 2013 and without it Honda won't ship any hybrids there so unless your Gov. acts or Honda starts building hybrids there.... you won't see it :(
Also talk to Jeff he has driven the HPD CR-Z and it has the push-pass(IMA only, 25hp more,but battery charge must be up).
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WongKN
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Yeah, your comments tallies. The "R" had always been Japan and occasionally Euro only. Even then, sometimes the Euro ones are a bit 'watered down' compared to the Japan one. Sometimes Euro creates an R for themselves and Japan then takes it, almost always soups it up for the JDM. E.g. Accord Type-R (Euro), then Accord Euro-R (JDM).
Your comment about the rest of the world also tallies well with what Honda have been doing. Which again I will emphasize is simply STUPID STUPID STUPID. If this is repeated again, it will truly signal the final demise of Honda.
Of interest is Hybrids are now being made in Malaysia and Thailand. The Jazz (Fit) Hybrid is being build in the current Malaysia plant and when the expansion starts operation middle next year, production will be shifted there. So if Honda is to build the CR-Z here, I hope they will do a Type-R as well. Or else, again it is simply suicide.
I remember Jeff telling me about his having driven the HPD CR-Z but lately we have not had a chance to chat as both of us have been busy. So the HPD has a 25hp boost. Maybe they might put a 10 or 15hp boost for the CR-Z ? If the engine is bumped up to 130hp, a 10hp boost will up the passing power to 140hp which will make the CR-Z acceptable at least.
I really hope Honda has a new approach to the issue of battery charging. I told -every- Honda engineer that I have met whom have been involved in the IMA models -except- the CR-Z. Tomobe-san didn't stay after the launch event. But I had long chats with the Insight and Jazz/Fit Hybrid engineers and told them how I really think there must be a way to manually control the IMA assist (which I think Honda's answer is this P2P) and battery charging. Again, being able to switch off IMA assist and run only on the engine, as well as activating forced charging at will, they are crucial for battery management for performance driving.
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RolledaNsx
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The 1.6L turbo engine we can thank Honda EU! They need it yesterday,everybody now is making a mini johnny racer in Europe.Did you see the new Mini!!!
THANK GOD THAT HONDA JAPAN GAVE MORE POWER TO EU AND AHM!!!!!
I think you will see a Type R and the US when they start building it away from Japan in 2014.
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human668
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If there's really an "R" model coming up and will be available in EU, should we have seen some spy photos at the "ring" already?
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DrWhiner
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WongKN wrote:
Some TOV members posted some info on the CR-Z MMC that is coming on the 27th of this month (September 2012) for the JDM. But they posted it into the feedback section of the TOV Accord launch news article. So I thought I will pick up the info and collect them all into a TOVA Honda Fan post available here -> http://tovahondafan.blogspot.com/2012/09/new-honda-cr-z-coming-this-month.html.
If anyone have any more info, especially on that rather interesting 'KERS'-type function, please do share. Again I will collect all info into TOVA Honda-Fan so that readers can get all info from a single place.
Attention RolledaNsx, anything you can share ? Thanks in advance.
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Sorry Wong. Can't find it.
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BachelorFrog
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This MMC CRZ will have reverse drive-train of upcoming NSX. ;)
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mobis21
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owequitit wrote:
P54 wrote:
owequitit wrote:
P54 wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
1.5L DOHC ED engine and lithium battery is my educated guess.
My friends are mum on it.
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Why not the 1.8 or 2.0 L ED to make it more "sport"?
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It would burn more gas, and make more CO2. You have made it abundantly clear that the only technology that matters for Hondas is the green-weenie pleasing kind.
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Oh, get over it owe, if Honda can't please you go check out the new Ford Mondeo (Fusion) with 1.0L 3 cyl. engine.
And mind you, new sporty Honda's will be clean too. See, they are part of today's society and take responsibility for the regulations that is imposed upon them from the various governments of the world. And still deliver power.
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I don't need to get over shit. I am not the one who justifies Honda's continual decline by preaching about how awesome their green technology is. This is where I use your 6 month ED crusade against you...
A bigger engine would make the car pollute more. And it would make it all boy racerish, which would be irresponsible of Honda.
And apparently Honda's sporty cars can't be clean, because in order to be clean, they have cancelled or neutered every single fun car they made, save the V6 Accord coupe. Oh yeah, and Honda hasn't really had any significant increases in power in oh...about 12 years now for the 4-cylinders and about 7 years for the V6.
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He has a good point. If you hate Honda so much, why do you visit TOV? Just to troll?
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WongKN
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DrWhiner wrote:
...
Sorry Wong. Can't find it.
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Hi, what was it you couldn't find ?
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DrWhiner
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Still not clear?
The original post in the feedback section of the TOV Accord launch news article.
Can't find it.
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WongKN
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The idea of having this thread and of me creating a post in our TOVA blog is so that we do not need to refer back to that thread in the Accord NNR article anymore. That thread on the CR-Z was quite out of place in a news article for the 9G Accord but yet contains a lot of interesting information. This is why a link back to that thread is not included, because people are focusing on this thread instead. It think that thread is already buried way down in the feedback section.
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