JP
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"Sources close to the company say the GT-R team is watching the development of the soon-to-be-introduced Acura NSX closely, especially after Honda insiders revealed that their hybrid-powered sports car will lap the Nürburgring faster than the GT-R. Nissan's keen interest in the Acura NSX also indicates that a hybrid version of the GT-R is a distinct possibility."
http://www.insideline.com/nissan/gt-r/next-generation-nissan-gt-r-on-track-for-2018.html
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ClementZ
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"When asked about the upcoming Porsche 918 Spyder, which also features hybrid technology, Mizuno didn't seem very impressed."
Mizuno's unimpressed with the 918?
O_o
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slipper
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Bold statement but i still have a glimmer of hope for Honda.
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WongKN
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OH COME ON HONDA !!!! Enough with these kind of CRAP already. Just sit down quietly and deliver. THEN ONLY TALK. Hardcore Honda enthusiast have almost totally given up and you (Honda) is fast becoming the laughing stock of the automobile fan world. I know because it HURTS a lot to hear some of things people say about Honda nowadays.
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RolledaNsx
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You guys haven't been listening to Ito!!!!!!!!
The NSX will be Class leading!!!!!!!!!!
It's class: GT-R 458 MP4
I think, you think because it has a V6 and hybrid it will suck.
Think again.... when we was testing the NSX 2.0 GT back in 2008 we wasn't meeting the goals of the project.... yes it had a big V10 with a lot of HP but it just never handled right(CG,WEIGHT BALANCE,ETC PROBLEMS).Wasn't fixed until went to carbon fiber tub and smaller V8 for SUPER GT.
This NSX 2.0 will meet it goals.
Started with the right format.... small mid-engine awd
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WongKN
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Actually I am afraid it is Honda who haven't been listening. We all have great hopes for Honda and have great hopes that this new NSX will totally and completely CREAM the competition. We are the never-dying fans. We all have great faith in Honda. We DON'T need any of these talk to convince us. We ALREADY KNOW. We JUST WANT RESULTS.
BUT THEN, this is the story of the century. Hope. Hope. Hope. It has all been hope and there have been absolutely nothing but only hope for so long now. That and TALK, TALK, TALK. In the meantime, Honda doesn't even have the BALLS to launch a hot-ter CR-Z, preferring to cower in fear from some silly comments from some obscure european media, rather than actually reaching out to a whole mass of hopeful waiting fans. IF ONLY HONDA REACHES OUT.
I am afraid the general comment out there, in the colloidal talk over here in Asia is simply the demeaning term "NATO" - "No Action, Talk Only."
It used to be Honda will sit quietly in a corner and work. Then without warning, it simply unleashed terror on to a totally unsuspecting world, changing the auto scene forever. VTEC. SiR. Type-R. NSX. S2000. I still remember the awe I had when Honda was interviewed by the F1 circus way back in the late 80s-early 90s. What budget do we have ? No Budget. We just want to race.
So I am afraid the main message is really "Honda, TALK IS CHEAP, JUST GET ON WITH IT. FOR YOUR OWN SAKE. PLEASE".
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WongKN
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Oh yeah, I really appreciate your patience with me. Thanks very much.
But I thought it really is about time Honda is told the truth, straight to the point, no more cissy beating around the bush, wasting the time. I am not sure if you might or might not be able to deliver this message back to Honda.
I am pretty sure many of the hardest core fanatics here in TOV/TOVA and across the world shares my feelings. We just really wish Honda will get on with it because so far, we have been getting dissapointment after dissapointment lately. Not sure if anyone will be left to hang around by the time Honda is done talking and finally delivers.
Because I myself have already started to look elsewhere for the replacement for my Jazz... Of course I accept that Honda Malaysia is not too concerned about it so Honda really don't care. But imagine what's on the mind of all the other Honda fanatics...
So sorry...
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P54
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So how much importance do you give for the well being of Honda that they made cars like "SiR. Type-R. NSX. S2000.".
Do you think Honda could have survived without them? Those cars are not about Honda's core business. Be glad they even cared making them.
Development takes time, when one newly developed car is scrapped due to economy and the car was developed based on wants from sources in USA, you have to be patient and wait for the new vehicle to take form. Natural disaster did not help the program.
Just read the news today:
Listening to Negative People Will Make You Dumb
Brain Studies and Negative People
Minda Zatlin reports in Inc. magazine that new research in neuroscience demonstrates how negative and critical people affect us. She notes that "being exposed to too much complaining can actually make you dumb. Research shows that exposure to 30 minutes or more of negativity – including viewing such material on TV – actually peels away neurons in the brain's hippocampus. That's the part of your brain you need for problem solving."
So what is the result of exposure to negative and critical people? "Basically it turns your brain to mush," the article notes. It has the same effect even if you are passively listening to them.
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superchg2
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Pie in the sky.
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kidoairaku
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where did Honda say anything about laptimes?
I read an article about Nissan, who heard from some where, that some Honda insider said something.
thats not Honda saying anything is it? I havent heard anything substantial from Honda about the NSX except the initial comments that it needed to be a next generation sports car. nothing about being the fastest just that it needed to be advanced overall.
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rev2damoon
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WongKN wrote:
Oh yeah, I really appreciate your patience with me. Thanks very much.
But I thought it really is about time Honda is told the truth, straight to the point, no more cissy beating around the bush, wasting the time. I am not sure if you might or might not be able to deliver this message back to Honda.
I am pretty sure many of the hardest core fanatics here in TOV/TOVA and across the world shares my feelings. We just really wish Honda will get on with it because so far, we have been getting dissapointment after dissapointment lately. Not sure if anyone will be left to hang around by the time Honda is done talking and finally delivers.
Because I myself have already started to look elsewhere for the replacement for my Jazz... Of course I accept that Honda Malaysia is not too concerned about it so Honda really don't care. But imagine what's on the mind of all the other Honda fanatics...
So sorry...
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Well I certainly share your feelings, Wong. Talk, talk, talk is all I've heard from Honda, and then a big fat NOTHING is what's delivered.
If you Honda people read this website, you know we've been craving a proper Type R here in the US since...forever. What do we have to show for it? Please deliver word back to Honda if you can that we Honda enthusiasts are NOT HAPPY about it. Than again, Honda probably already knows that, which makes it all the more infuriating.
You be sure to deliver word as well that they SUCK for doing what they did to the 12' Si here in the US. Thank you.
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nightflow
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Getting back to the things that will make it as class leader. I'm interested in the carbon fiber tub that was mentioned which is a specialty of McLaren. Wondering if the weight will be within 200 lbs of this.
2012 MP4-12C:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/special-report/supercar-tech-analysis-the-relentless-pursuit-of-weight-savings
"Overall, the McLaren MP4-12C’s dry weight tips the scale at 2945 lb."
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/1207_mclaren_mp4_12c_lexus_lfa_lamborghini_aventador_lp700_4_and_bugatti_veyron_16_4_grand_sport/viewall.html
"Of the 271 cars on sale in America today, only the Bugatti Veyron, the Lamborghini Aventador, the Lexus LFA, and the McLaren MP4-12C boast carbon-fiber tubs."
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notyper
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Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me three times and - well, you must be Honda and I probably use a three letter acronym for my screen name.
More succinctly, I'll believe it when I see it. This is Honda's "lost in the wilderness" era. Whether they'll find their way out is up in the air.
SC
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superchg2
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rev2damoon wrote:
If you Honda people read this website, you know we've been craving a proper Type R here in the US since...forever. What do we have to show for it? Please deliver word back to Honda if you can that we Honda enthusiasts are NOT HAPPY about it. Than again, Honda probably already knows that, which makes it all the more infuriating.
You be sure to deliver word as well that they SUCK for doing what they did to the 12' Si here in the US. Thank you.
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P.S. Honda, if you want to see how to make a mainstream World car for enthusiast's, please check out the new Focus ST. Coming to a Ford dealer near you!
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WongKN
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kidoairaku wrote:
where did Honda say anything about laptimes?
I read an article about Nissan, who heard from some where, that some Honda insider said something.
thats not Honda saying anything is it? I havent heard anything substantial from Honda about the NSX except the initial comments that it needed to be a next generation sports car. nothing about being the fastest just that it needed to be advanced overall.
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You are right in that this article is about Nissan and that there have been no mention about laptimes from Honda. Who knows if it might even be a story planted/invented by Nissan to make fun of the NSX ? Unlikely though. In any case, the thing that really caused the negative reactions is highlighted below in bold. Well, maybe it might not be a true what was claimed of the Honda insiders...
"Sources close to the company say the GT-R team is watching the development of the soon-to-be-introduced Acura NSX closely, especially after Honda insiders revealed that their hybrid-powered sports car will lap the Nürburgring faster than the GT-R. Nissan's keen interest in the Acura NSX also indicates that a hybrid version of the GT-R is a distinct possibility."
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ciwai08
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That would make an awesome dune buggy.
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RolledaNsx
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At the moment carbon fiber is not the best way to go for a production car chassis.The resins are to heavy.In a micro-production race car you can hand-lay the fabric and keep the resin to the minimum so it is lighter.You can't do that in mass-production.So mass-production carbon fiber has to much resin in it and it is heavy.
Thats why the new Ferrari f12 stayed with the aluminium alloy.
There are new lighter stronger more elastic aluminium alloys,like aluminium-lithium.
Another problem with carbon-fiber is how long is it going to last? 15 years after you buy your dream sports car and you start hearing a weird sound and you take it to the shop to find out you cracked the tub..... a $ 50,000 + fix!!
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Nick GravesX
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RolledaNsx wrote:
You guys haven't been listening to Ito!!!!!!!!
The NSX will be Class leading!!!!!!!!!!
It's class: GT-R 458 MP4
I think, you think because it has a V6 and hybrid it will suck.
Think again.... when we was testing the NSX 2.0 GT back in 2008 we wasn't meeting the goals of the project.... yes it had a big V10 with a lot of HP but it just never handled right(CG,WEIGHT BALANCE,ETC PROBLEMS).Wasn't fixed until went to carbon fiber tub and smaller V8 for SUPER GT.
This NSX 2.0 will meet it goals.
Started with the right format.... small mid-engine awd
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That was what I suspected at the time. Isuspectet it wasn't really a Honda, somehow.
If the 'third time lucky' car is as good as promised (and it has to be) it could be quite a day-saver. And genuinely good. I hope so.
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WingZ
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RolledaNsx wrote:
You guys haven't been listening to Ito!!!!!!!!
The NSX will be Class leading!!!!!!!!!!
It's class: GT-R 458 MP4
I think, you think because it has a V6 and hybrid it will suck.
Think again.... when we was testing the NSX 2.0 GT back in 2008 we wasn't meeting the goals of the project.... yes it had a big V10 with a lot of HP but it just never handled right(CG,WEIGHT BALANCE,ETC PROBLEMS).Wasn't fixed until went to carbon fiber tub and smaller V8 for SUPER GT.
This NSX 2.0 will meet it goals.
Started with the right format.... small mid-engine awd
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Actually that's not true. Quite the opposite can be seen when the V10 ASCC was being tested on the Ring. Ito didn't want that car and that's the reason it was cancelled not performance issues.
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owequitit
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RolledaNsx wrote:
At the moment carbon fiber is not the best way to go for a production car chassis.The resins are to heavy.In a micro-production race car you can hand-lay the fabric and keep the resin to the minimum so it is lighter.You can't do that in mass-production.So mass-production carbon fiber has to much resin in it and it is heavy.
Thats why the new Ferrari f12 stayed with the aluminium alloy.
There are new lighter stronger more elastic aluminium alloys,like aluminium-lithium.
Another problem with carbon-fiber is how long is it going to last? 15 years after you buy your dream sports car and you start hearing a weird sound and you take it to the shop to find out you cracked the tub..... a $ 50,000 + fix!!
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These are some of the same challenges in the aviation industry with "mass produced" CF parts. It is hard to ensure the strength without overbuilding them, which lends itself to a much heavier than ideal structure.
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RolledaNsx
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WingZ
Ito didn't cancel the V10 ASCC, the ASCC was canceled in December 2008 and Ito didn't become pres. until June 2009.
The V10 ASCC was Takeo Fukui's pet project from day one!
He was into the look of the English GT. He promised the World that the new sports car will be on top.It came close but not close enough and by the time it came out it would be outclassed! So the economy help Takeo save face.
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Ultima
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notyper wrote:
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me three times and - well, you must be Honda and I probably use a three letter acronym for my screen name.
More succinctly, I'll believe it when I see it. This is Honda's "lost in the wilderness" era. Whether they'll find their way out is up in the air.
SC
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Totally agreed. This is a healthy mentality to have for enthusiast when it comes to Honda.
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dampflok
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notyper wrote:
More succinctly, I'll believe it when I see it. This is Honda's "lost in the wilderness" era. Whether they'll find their way out is up in the air.SC |
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Grace141
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RolledaNsx wrote:
You guys haven't been listening to Ito!!!!!!!!
The NSX will be Class leading!!!!!!!!!!
It's class: GT-R 458 MP4
I think, you think because it has a V6 and hybrid it will suck.
Think again.... when we was testing the NSX 2.0 GT back in 2008 we wasn't meeting the goals of the project.... yes it had a big V10 with a lot of HP but it just never handled right(CG,WEIGHT BALANCE,ETC PROBLEMS).Wasn't fixed until went to carbon fiber tub and smaller V8 for SUPER GT.
This NSX 2.0 will meet it goals.
Started with the right format.... small mid-engine awd
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R-NSX, I'll make a shot in the dark guess here. Your posts on TOV sound like a couple of Purdue grads I know at work. Boilermaker, by chance?
Neil Armstrong - RIP
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WongKN
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Nick Graves wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
You guys haven't been listening to Ito!!!!!!!!
The NSX will be Class leading!!!!!!!!!!
It's class: GT-R 458 MP4
I think, you think because it has a V6 and hybrid it will suck.
Think again.... when we was testing the NSX 2.0 GT back in 2008 we wasn't meeting the goals of the project.... yes it had a big V10 with a lot of HP but it just never handled right(CG,WEIGHT BALANCE,ETC PROBLEMS).Wasn't fixed until went to carbon fiber tub and smaller V8 for SUPER GT.
This NSX 2.0 will meet it goals.
Started with the right format.... small mid-engine awd
|
That was what I suspected at the time. Isuspectet it wasn't really a Honda, somehow.
If the 'third time lucky' car is as good as promised (and it has to be) it could be quite a day-saver. And genuinely good. I hope so.
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Like I was saying. Hope. Hope is all we have at the moment. But I think many of us still have faith. At least I still have.
And BTW, Nick owns an NSX so if this new one comes out, he, more than most of us will probably get one.
And BTW, his (Nick Graves') latest car is a non-Honda, the Toyota FR-S (86)...
Food for thought ? Or just another unimportant case/statistics ? I mean since Honda is still a best seller and all that...
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WongKN
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RolledaNsx wrote:
WingZ
Ito didn't cancel the V10 ASCC, the ASCC was canceled in December 2008 and Ito didn't become pres. until June 2009.
The V10 ASCC was Takeo Fukui's pet project from day one!
He was into the look of the English GT. He promised the World that the new sports car will be on top.It came close but not close enough and by the time it came out it would be outclassed! So the economy help Takeo save face.
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Thanks for this new insight about the V10 ASCC. I was told at one time that one of the problems was an unexpected delay when it was decided Honda wants to challenge the R35 with this car and from a 2seater, it was then changed into a 2+2 halfway into the design cycle, causing quite a bit of delay.
But your last explanation sort of hits the nail on the head. It is probably cultural difference or maybe even generation gap. But here, the common practise is to keep quiet when working on something great, and to launch it onto an unsuspecting world. Best not promise anything or talk too much. Unless one is Ursain Bolt and we are talking about the 100m sprint, else it is really foolish to promise too much before one can be sure the promise can be delivered. We much prefer the other way round, not sure if any of you noticed her, but the chinese diver Woo Ming Xia, totally creamed the competition in diving. In the individuals final, in the 1st round, she was 10 points ahead of 2nd place. 2nd round, 20 points. By the time the final was halfway, the rest of the field were already resigned to fighting for best of rest. She was totally low profiled going into the finals, although a favourite, a tag given by others and not herself. Commentators regularly called her 'perfection in motion'. Yet no fuss, no hype, no talk, before the Olympics. Just total complete destruction of the competition. This was what I think many of us are hoping for, from this new NSX. At least it is what TOV is hoping for (yes, I can talk for others who own TOV).
Perhaps it is the new focus on the GenY's ? I know hype and fuss is the 'in' thing nowadays. Promises and talking-big are 'in' and gives one 'status'. But my observation is that the GenY's and GenZ's can also be very merciless. Promise something, they wholeheartedly accept it and praise you for it. Fail to deliver and they will mercilessly and completely destroy you. Plus the attention span nowadays is pretty short so talk too much before delivering and there is a real danger one gets forgotten very fast before even making an appearance.
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Nick GravesX
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WongKN wrote:
Nick Graves wrote:
RolledaNsx wrote:
You guys haven't been listening to Ito!!!!!!!!
The NSX will be Class leading!!!!!!!!!!
It's class: GT-R 458 MP4
I think, you think because it has a V6 and hybrid it will suck.
Think again.... when we was testing the NSX 2.0 GT back in 2008 we wasn't meeting the goals of the project.... yes it had a big V10 with a lot of HP but it just never handled right(CG,WEIGHT BALANCE,ETC PROBLEMS).Wasn't fixed until went to carbon fiber tub and smaller V8 for SUPER GT.
This NSX 2.0 will meet it goals.
Started with the right format.... small mid-engine awd
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That was what I suspected at the time. Isuspectet it wasn't really a Honda, somehow.
If the 'third time lucky' car is as good as promised (and it has to be) it could be quite a day-saver. And genuinely good. I hope so.
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Like I was saying. Hope. Hope is all we have at the moment. But I think many of us still have faith. At least I still have.
And BTW, Nick owns an NSX so if this new one comes out, he, more than most of us will probably get one.
And BTW, his (Nick Graves') latest car is a non-Honda, the Toyota FR-S (86)...
Food for thought ? Or just another unimportant case/statistics ? I mean since Honda is still a best seller and all that...
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I don't have any blind faith; I only work with empirical evidence and occasionally some guesswork.
I have (had) a lot of respect for Honda's corporate integrity and they have made some wonderful cars - I'd rather it continue as opposed to see them sink into the morass of boring also-ran companies. I mean, GM, FIAT, etc were successes once...
Hachiroku is a great little fun car, BTW! Do try one out.
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Alex_Bog_16v
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There's nothing to be enthusiastic about this brand anymore, absolutely nothing. It's just a bland "toaster-on-wheels-maker" with some reminiscence of past sport character in therms of handling and build quality. Some, but far from enough. For now, this is the reality. It's neither negative or positive, this situation, it just is. Some people approve this, mostly common folks with a little knowledge or much attachment for Honda, that just happened to pick it up with Toyota, Hyundai or some other brand with similar blandness in mind as alternatives. But some don't. As a former 4 Hondas owner, 1 being a Type R, I don't. I consider myself a common person that enjoys appreciating a proper engineered car, with more than mediocre expectations regarding everything. When a brand turns into blandness, I sense it, not only but looking at the specs, but sensing it in the handling, the build quality, the driver's position, the little give-ups here and there and many others.
As for NSX 2.0, besides making a marketing statement, the car is useless. The 1.0 practically rewrite the whole concept about building a proper sports car that anybody can drive, even Ferrari engineers were sent back to the drawing board by it. The only drawback was its price, but in spite that, it had a huge impact on industry.
Now, when I look at GT86, I say "well this is a proper fun sports car for the masses". Why hasn't Honda delivered a proper successor for S2000? Why the whole Type R program shelving? And why the hell did they threw billions on even more useless programs as V10, RWD flagships, in stead of spending them on PROPER successors for what they already had?
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Nick GravesX
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I don't always agree with your opinions Alex, but I think that post is absolutely spot-on!
It was a rhetorical question, but I think the answer is: Hubris.
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RolledaNsx
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Looking back we're going to call the 2000's the lost years of Honda like the lost years of the 90's for Japan after the real estate collapse.
I'll call it the 10 years of hell under Takeo Fukui who ran the company from 1999-2009.Working with him was like working with a child in the candy store....
One moment he was into big horsepower american style muscle cars then the next moment he was green.... back and forth!
So projects got started then lost and finally cancelled!
He was listening to too many people to want Honda should be!!!
So I'll call it the Lost years of Fukui!!!!
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