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nyt_reader
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Look for Nissan -- which is in the midst of launching five new vehicles in 15 months -- to be moving up in Consumer Reports' influential auto ratings.
http://usat.ly/PGNmkI
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JeffX
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nyt_reader wrote:
Look for Nissan -- which is in the midst of launching five new vehicles in 15 months -- to be moving up in Consumer Reports' influential auto ratings.
http://usat.ly/PGNmkI
|
I drove the new '13 Altima this week. It's actually pretty nice though I really dislike the styling. YUCK! But on the plus side, it has the best gauge cluster in the segment and the ride and handling puts it near the top of the class. One thing I noticed, and this was a virtually BRAND NEW Altima, the CVT was making some disconcerting noises. I had made a couple of "merge to freeway speed" acceleration runs, and then I started hearing a whirring/chirring sound - it wasn't super loud but it didn't sound "right". At first I wasn't sure what I was hearing but it seemed to shift tone along with the rpms, so I clicked the gear selector into neutral and back into D and it went away for a few moments, but then returned. Hopefully that problem is simply a flaw for that particular car.
The CVT itself operated fine though the initial ramp of torque feels sluggish. Once the car is moving it feels a little more responsive and I really liked the "Stepped" sport mode that it offers. This is something I said would have helped the CR-Z CVT – the CR-Z has a stepped "manumatic" mode but no way to engage the simulated stepped gearing with automatic shifting. On the '13 Altima it works great and feels much sportier than simply parking the engine on the redline and letting it wail away under heavy acceleration. In this simulated stepped mode, it only drops maybe 1000-1500 between "shifts" but it's really quick and the change in engine note is much more pleasing to the ear. It may not ultimately be as quick as a pure CVT mode at WOT but I seriously doubt it makes a huge difference and from a perception standpoint it actually feels a little quicker.
I also drove the '12 Camry and a '12 Sonata and some other car I can't mention. Anyhow, of the 3 mentioned cars, the Altima is the clear leader, then the Camry is quite a ways back (mostly due to its cheap look/feel - I really don't see why anybody got excited about this car except for the fact it was a big jump over the previous model, which isn't any real feat) and then you have the Sonata way in the back. There are pieces of the Sonata that, taken on their own, are not bad, but the sum of the parts just isn't very good. The Sonata's chassis sort of sucks, actually. The engine and transmission are good enough, the interior is pretty nice, but overall the Sonata is clearly a backmarker. I have learned over the years that this is how Hyundai generally operates. They introduce a new model, people get all hot and bothered and think Hyundai has hit a grand slam, but then the actual vehicle just doesn't deliver on the full package, and this Sonata just repeats the pattern I have observed. It's an okay car but it already feels more than a generation behind the class.
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Power Of Dreams
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nyt_reader wrote:
Look for Nissan -- which is in the midst of launching five new vehicles in 15 months -- to be moving up in Consumer Reports' influential auto ratings.
http://usat.ly/PGNmkI
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David Champion was a Nissan engineer before he got hired with Consumer Reports.
While I regard their reviews as birdcage lining, I hope this will take the chintziness out of Nissan's cars and make them into a more coherent package like Honda's.
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TonyEX
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Jeff wrote:
nyt_reader wrote:
Look for Nissan -- which is in the midst of launching five new vehicles in 15 months -- to be moving up in Consumer Reports' influential auto ratings.
http://usat.ly/PGNmkI
|
I drove the new '13 Altima this week. It's actually pretty nice though I really dislike the styling. YUCK! But on the plus side, it has the best gauge cluster in the segment and the ride and handling puts it near the top of the class. One thing I noticed, and this was a virtually BRAND NEW Altima, the CVT was making some disconcerting noises. I had made a couple of "merge to freeway speed" acceleration runs, and then I started hearing a whirring/chirring sound - it wasn't super loud but it didn't sound "right". At first I wasn't sure what I was hearing but it seemed to shift tone along with the rpms, so I clicked the gear selector into neutral and back into D and it went away for a few moments, but then returned. Hopefully that problem is simply a flaw for that particular car.
The CVT itself operated fine though the initial ramp of torque feels sluggish. Once the car is moving it feels a little more responsive and I really liked the "Stepped" sport mode that it offers. This is something I said would have helped the CR-Z CVT – the CR-Z has a stepped "manumatic" mode but no way to engage the simulated stepped gearing with automatic shifting. On the '13 Altima it works great and feels much sportier than simply parking the engine on the redline and letting it wail away under heavy acceleration. In this simulated stepped mode, it only drops maybe 1000-1500 between "shifts" but it's really quick and the change in engine note is much more pleasing to the ear. It may not ultimately be as quick as a pure CVT mode at WOT but I seriously doubt it makes a huge difference and from a perception standpoint it actually feels a little quicker.
I also drove the '12 Camry and a '12 Sonata and some other car I can't mention. Anyhow, of the 3 mentioned cars, the Altima is the clear leader, then the Camry is quite a ways back (mostly due to its cheap look/feel - I really don't see why anybody got excited about this car except for the fact it was a big jump over the previous model, which isn't any real feat) and then you have the Sonata way in the back. There are pieces of the Sonata that, taken on their own, are not bad, but the sum of the parts just isn't very good. The Sonata's chassis sort of sucks, actually. The engine and transmission are good enough, the interior is pretty nice, but overall the Sonata is clearly a backmarker. I have learned over the years that this is how Hyundai generally operates. They introduce a new model, people get all hot and bothered and think Hyundai has hit a grand slam, but then the actual vehicle just doesn't deliver on the full package, and this Sonata just repeats the pattern I have observed. It's an okay car but it already feels more than a generation behind the class.
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Drove the new Accord?
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&REY
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TonyE wrote:
Drove the new Accord?
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I think you are right. :)
I hope it raped em.
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TurkMan71
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Jeff wrote:
nyt_reader wrote:
Look for Nissan -- which is in the midst of launching five new vehicles in 15 months -- to be moving up in Consumer Reports' influential auto ratings.
http://usat.ly/PGNmkI
|
I drove the new '13 Altima this week. It's actually pretty nice though I really dislike the styling. YUCK! But on the plus side, it has the best gauge cluster in the segment and the ride and handling puts it near the top of the class. One thing I noticed, and this was a virtually BRAND NEW Altima, the CVT was making some disconcerting noises. I had made a couple of "merge to freeway speed" acceleration runs, and then I started hearing a whirring/chirring sound - it wasn't super loud but it didn't sound "right". At first I wasn't sure what I was hearing but it seemed to shift tone along with the rpms, so I clicked the gear selector into neutral and back into D and it went away for a few moments, but then returned. Hopefully that problem is simply a flaw for that particular car.
The CVT itself operated fine though the initial ramp of torque feels sluggish. Once the car is moving it feels a little more responsive and I really liked the "Stepped" sport mode that it offers. This is something I said would have helped the CR-Z CVT – the CR-Z has a stepped "manumatic" mode but no way to engage the simulated stepped gearing with automatic shifting. On the '13 Altima it works great and feels much sportier than simply parking the engine on the redline and letting it wail away under heavy acceleration. In this simulated stepped mode, it only drops maybe 1000-1500 between "shifts" but it's really quick and the change in engine note is much more pleasing to the ear. It may not ultimately be as quick as a pure CVT mode at WOT but I seriously doubt it makes a huge difference and from a perception standpoint it actually feels a little quicker.
I also drove the '12 Camry and a '12 Sonata and some other car I can't mention. Anyhow, of the 3 mentioned cars, the Altima is the clear leader, then the Camry is quite a ways back (mostly due to its cheap look/feel - I really don't see why anybody got excited about this car except for the fact it was a big jump over the previous model, which isn't any real feat) and then you have the Sonata way in the back. There are pieces of the Sonata that, taken on their own, are not bad, but the sum of the parts just isn't very good. The Sonata's chassis sort of sucks, actually. The engine and transmission are good enough, the interior is pretty nice, but overall the Sonata is clearly a backmarker. I have learned over the years that this is how Hyundai generally operates. They introduce a new model, people get all hot and bothered and think Hyundai has hit a grand slam, but then the actual vehicle just doesn't deliver on the full package, and this Sonata just repeats the pattern I have observed. It's an okay car but it already feels more than a generation behind the class.
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Reading in between the lines: Altima's gauges are better than the new Accords, Accords ride/handling is tops in the segment.
:-)
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sadlerau
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TurkMan71 wrote:
Reading in between the lines: Altima's gauges are better than the new Accords, Accords ride/handling is tops in the segment.:-) |
Excellent synopsis :)
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nyt_reader
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Power Of Dreams wrote:
nyt_reader wrote:
"Look for Nissan -- which is in the midst of launching five new vehicles in 15 months -- to be moving up in Consumer Reports' influential auto ratings...."
http://usat.ly/PGNmkI
|
While I regard their (ie Consumer Reports) reviews as birdcage lining...
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For the average car buyer, Consumer Reports is pretty much the best single source for reliability information out there. For a buy-and-hold car owner, that's hardly birdcage liner information! Of course if one has a situation where leasing a "new" one every few years is your thing or if a new car every three-twelve months is part of the job's fringe benefits then that's a different story.
With Consumer Reports, important things like owner satisfaction is available, the car's acceleration is not over weighted, premium fuel requirements are noted, fuel economy is not underrated (or worse hidden), handling and turning radius are given consistent mention and crash test data is reported. Hardly the stuff of a birdcage liner!
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notyper
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Except that CR has now called their credibility into question with their shrill, petty and unsupported screeds against certain vehicles.
I once felt like you, but now I have to wonder about CR's objectivity. If they had just stuck to reporting actual facts and reliability information, they would have been fine. But they couldn't resist interjecting their personal biases into their reporting.
Kind of like the NY Times, and there's a publication that has gone from the pinnacle to the sewer and is just a few years away from bankruptcy. Will the same happen to CR?
SC
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Gfn8r
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Jeff wrote:
nyt_reader wrote:
Look for Nissan -- which is in the midst of launching five new vehicles in 15 months -- to be moving up in Consumer Reports' influential auto ratings.
http://usat.ly/PGNmkI
|
I drove the new '13 Altima this week. It's actually pretty nice though I really dislike the styling. YUCK! But on the plus side, it has the best gauge cluster in the segment and the ride and handling puts it near the top of the class. One thing I noticed, and this was a virtually BRAND NEW Altima, the CVT was making some disconcerting noises. I had made a couple of "merge to freeway speed" acceleration runs, and then I started hearing a whirring/chirring sound - it wasn't super loud but it didn't sound "right". At first I wasn't sure what I was hearing but it seemed to shift tone along with the rpms, so I clicked the gear selector into neutral and back into D and it went away for a few moments, but then returned. Hopefully that problem is simply a flaw for that particular car.
The CVT itself operated fine though the initial ramp of torque feels sluggish. Once the car is moving it feels a little more responsive and I really liked the "Stepped" sport mode that it offers. This is something I said would have helped the CR-Z CVT – the CR-Z has a stepped "manumatic" mode but no way to engage the simulated stepped gearing with automatic shifting. On the '13 Altima it works great and feels much sportier than simply parking the engine on the redline and letting it wail away under heavy acceleration. In this simulated stepped mode, it only drops maybe 1000-1500 between "shifts" but it's really quick and the change in engine note is much more pleasing to the ear. It may not ultimately be as quick as a pure CVT mode at WOT but I seriously doubt it makes a huge difference and from a perception standpoint it actually feels a little quicker.
I also drove the '12 Camry and a '12 Sonata and some other car I can't mention. Anyhow, of the 3 mentioned cars, the Altima is the clear leader, then the Camry is quite a ways back (mostly due to its cheap look/feel - I really don't see why anybody got excited about this car except for the fact it was a big jump over the previous model, which isn't any real feat) and then you have the Sonata way in the back. There are pieces of the Sonata that, taken on their own, are not bad, but the sum of the parts just isn't very good. The Sonata's chassis sort of sucks, actually. The engine and transmission are good enough, the interior is pretty nice, but overall the Sonata is clearly a backmarker. I have learned over the years that this is how Hyundai generally operates. They introduce a new model, people get all hot and bothered and think Hyundai has hit a grand slam, but then the actual vehicle just doesn't deliver on the full package, and this Sonata just repeats the pattern I have observed. It's an okay car but it already feels more than a generation behind the class.
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Camry still dull as dishwater--CHECK! (SE trim?)
I have a strange feeling I wouldn't want to play any poker hands with our Mr. Palmer here! (If I knew how to play, that is! ;-) )
(Hmmm..we have glue on the steering wheel and sugar in the gas tank! Now a couple grains of sand on the CVT dipstick courtesy of the folks who extended the invite! What next, me wonders?! "Bwahahaha"..oops..sorry!)
+1 on the Altima IP--it looks like a Lexus (or something else from the 2003-2007 timeframe) IP when the switch is off, correct? Perhaps something for consideration for..(::long pause::)..an MMC (::cough, hack, clearing throat::)..in the..uhhh..future!
"[Snot-a] feels more than a generation behind the class." Wonder which generation?! Hmm..of what, exactly??!! (Class? ;-) )
Suddenly I'm rather "encouraged!!" (Close to "strutting" a little easier even--yup, all of my own Accord! Though, as I'm sure Jeff is all too aware, the "suspense" is killing us all!!) 8-D
(::Gfn8r sets TOV aside for awhile (for once) and attempts to find, but still can't get, a life!::)
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Gfn8r
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notyper wrote:
Except that CR has now called their credibility into question with their shrill, petty and unsupported screeds against certain vehicles.
I once felt like you, but now I have to wonder about CR's objectivity. If they had just stuck to reporting actual facts and reliability information, they would have been fine. But they couldn't resist interjecting their personal biases into their reporting.
Kind of like the NY Times, and there's a publication that has gone from the pinnacle to the sewer and is just a few years away from bankruptcy. Will the same happen to CR?
SC
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I still think they're OK with refrigerators and stuff like that. Cars? Not so much anymore, at least with test-drive opinions; the reliability matrices, IHMO, are still worthy of consideration. Let's see if they are more forgiving of the Civic, now that the Nissan "shill" is gone!
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Gfn8r
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Gfn8r wrote:
notyper wrote:
Except that CR has now called their credibility into question with their shrill, petty and unsupported screeds against certain vehicles.
I once felt like you, but now I have to wonder about CR's objectivity. If they had just stuck to reporting actual facts and reliability information, they would have been fine. But they couldn't resist interjecting their personal biases into their reporting.
Kind of like the NY Times, and there's a publication that has gone from the pinnacle to the sewer and is just a few years away from bankruptcy. Will the same happen to CR?
SC
|
I still think they're OK with refrigerators and stuff like that. Cars? Not so much anymore, at least with test-drive opinions; the reliability matrices, IHMO, are still worthy of consideration. Let's see if they are more forgiving of the Civic, now that the Nissan "shill" is gone!
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I should have added that I still consider CR my "second Bible" on many things, but not all--especially given their increasingly leftward slant on many "consumer" issues.
Enough of that talk, lest this get me confined to the "Political Lounge" or worse!
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Power Of Dreams
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nyt_reader wrote:
Power Of Dreams wrote:
nyt_reader wrote:
"Look for Nissan -- which is in the midst of launching five new vehicles in 15 months -- to be moving up in Consumer Reports' influential auto ratings...."
http://usat.ly/PGNmkI
|
While I regard their (ie Consumer Reports) reviews as birdcage lining...
|
For the average car buyer, Consumer Reports is pretty much the best single source for reliability information out there. For a buy-and-hold car owner, that's hardly birdcage liner information! Of course if one has a situation where leasing a "new" one every few years is your thing or if a new car every three-twelve months is part of the job's fringe benefits then that's a different story.
With Consumer Reports, important things like owner satisfaction is available, the car's acceleration is not over weighted, premium fuel requirements are noted, fuel economy is not underrated (or worse hidden), handling and turning radius are given consistent mention and crash test data is reported. Hardly the stuff of a birdcage liner!
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This is the same magazine that recommended the Sable and said the Taurus was not recommended one year around 1999-2001. Aside from minor fascia differences, these were the same cars built in the same plants.
While I threw away the magazine a long time ago, I remember the quote going something like this.
"Due to the responses we received in our survey for Consumer Reports readers, we recommend the Sable but cannot recommend the Taurus."
I hold on to my cars too and find that I'm better served buying a reliable car from a company that has a history of making them like Honda rather then relying on such goofy methodology which can change due to responses with the mea culpa being "The Crapmobile GT has gone from Recommended to Not Recommended due to a high level of respondents citing spontaneous combustion." Tell that to a guy who bought a Crapmobile GT because it was recommended a few months prior.
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nyt_reader
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Power Of Dreams wrote:
nyt_reader wrote:
Power Of Dreams wrote:
nyt_reader wrote:
"Look for Nissan -- which is in the midst of launching five new vehicles in 15 months -- to be moving up in Consumer Reports' influential auto ratings...."
http://usat.ly/PGNmkI
|
While I regard their (ie Consumer Reports) reviews as birdcage lining...
|
For the average car buyer, Consumer Reports is pretty much the best single source for reliability information out there. For a buy-and-hold car owner, that's hardly birdcage liner information! Of course if one has a situation where leasing a "new" one every few years is your thing or if a new car every three-twelve months is part of the job's fringe benefits then that's a different story.
With Consumer Reports, important things like owner satisfaction is available, the car's acceleration is not over weighted, premium fuel requirements are noted, fuel economy is not underrated (or worse hidden), handling and turning radius are given consistent mention and crash test data is reported. Hardly the stuff of a birdcage liner!
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This is the same magazine that recommended the Sable and said the Taurus was not recommended one year around 1999-2001. Aside from minor fascia differences, these were the same cars built in the same plants.
While I threw away the magazine a long time ago, I remember the quote going something like this.
"Due to the responses we received in our survey for Consumer Reports readers, we recommend the Sable but cannot recommend the Taurus."
I hold on to my cars too and find that I'm better served buying a reliable car from a company that has a history of making them like Honda rather then relying on such goofy methodology which can change due to responses with the mea culpa being "The Crapmobile GT has gone from Recommended to Not Recommended due to a high level of respondents citing spontaneous combustion." Tell that to a guy who bought a Crapmobile GT because it was recommended a few months prior.
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Some of your critisms are valid. (Hell I even remember CR recommending the Fiat 128!) But the relative reliability of any particular vehicle has been clearly established for the mainstream by CR! That IS their main contribution, which you failed to note. Few things are perfect in this world. So please name a mainstream alternative publication that is better. There's the problem!
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Gfn8r
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nyt_reader wrote:
Power Of Dreams wrote:
nyt_reader wrote:
Power Of Dreams wrote:
nyt_reader wrote:
"Look for Nissan -- which is in the midst of launching five new vehicles in 15 months -- to be moving up in Consumer Reports' influential auto ratings...."
http://usat.ly/PGNmkI
|
While I regard their (ie Consumer Reports) reviews as birdcage lining...
|
For the average car buyer, Consumer Reports is pretty much the best single source for reliability information out there. For a buy-and-hold car owner, that's hardly birdcage liner information! Of course if one has a situation where leasing a "new" one every few years is your thing or if a new car every three-twelve months is part of the job's fringe benefits then that's a different story.
With Consumer Reports, important things like owner satisfaction is available, the car's acceleration is not over weighted, premium fuel requirements are noted, fuel economy is not underrated (or worse hidden), handling and turning radius are given consistent mention and crash test data is reported. Hardly the stuff of a birdcage liner!
|
This is the same magazine that recommended the Sable and said the Taurus was not recommended one year around 1999-2001. Aside from minor fascia differences, these were the same cars built in the same plants.
While I threw away the magazine a long time ago, I remember the quote going something like this.
"Due to the responses we received in our survey for Consumer Reports readers, we recommend the Sable but cannot recommend the Taurus."
I hold on to my cars too and find that I'm better served buying a reliable car from a company that has a history of making them like Honda rather then relying on such goofy methodology which can change due to responses with the mea culpa being "The Crapmobile GT has gone from Recommended to Not Recommended due to a high level of respondents citing spontaneous combustion." Tell that to a guy who bought a Crapmobile GT because it was recommended a few months prior.
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Some of your critisms are valid. (Hell I even remember CR recommending the Fiat 128!) But the relative reliability of any particular vehicle has been clearly established for the mainstream by CR! That IS their main contribution, which you failed to note. Few things are perfect in this world. So please name a mainstream alternative publication that is better. There's the problem!
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That's the best point--there isn't another publication like it. They do seem to get a reasonable enough cross-sampling that seems to jive--you don't get as many complaints about higher-rated cars, and they will "ding" something in the reliability charts when needed. (See all the solid black marks in the 6th-Gen Accord V6 transmissions, for example!)
The only thing about the reliability charts that could throw people is the stuff like the Taurus/Sable differences; if you're not a "car person" (who would "average" it out), it's going to be misleading. And sometimes their separation of different trims doesn't make sense at first (4-cylinder, V6) until you take the Camry sludging or my 6th-Gen example above into account.
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