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RolledaNsx
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Look up Honda CR-Z Mugen on YouTube
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TonyEX
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WongKN wrote:
Dren wrote:
...
Not all the enthusiasts I know at autocross events. They all dog the CRZ. I am quite curious to see what Shawn thinks about this one. Isn't Honda supposed to put out an Si or some upgraded version?
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You have not been following the 'Erik Bergman' thread ? Someone there who very likely knows what he is talking about has explained that it (the CR-Z Si) has been in development for 2 years already. But supposedly Honda went and let some British media test the prototype and their feedback caused Honda to hesitate.
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What was their problem?
Did the electrics work all the time?
Does HoE have to install an RBIC ( randomized bug insertor computer ) so that every so often the car won't start or the driver's side wiper will work only on delay?
You know... something british... like a Jag that won't start whenever it rains.
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bigblue
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WongKN wrote:
You have not been following the 'Erik Bergman' thread ? Someone there who very likely knows what he is talking about has explained that it (the CR-Z Si) has been in development for 2 years already. But supposedly Honda went and let some British media test the prototype and their feedback caused Honda to hesitate.
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I never figured out if the CR-Z iCF was the "hot CR-Z" mentioned elsewhere, or just a UK stop-gap until the real-deal came along. In fact it's not even clear that anything will appear at all now.
The iCF prototype was received in the UK press as good-ish, but with some flaws. I've picked out the specific complaint in the following two reviews, they also had good things to say about the car (click on the links to see the entire text if you're interested, they're both quite short articles).
Car Magazine "Honda CR-Z Mugen prototype (2011) CAR review"
But tall (and unchanged) gearing means a shift from the limiter in second to third gear leaves you in No Man’s Land just north of 4000rpm, too high for the electric motor to assist, too low for the engine’s extra power to boost you on. Despite Golf GTI-alike power levels, it doesn’t have that mid-range urge to make it feel comfortably quick. You definitely can’t leave it in sixth expecting the torque to help you overtake.
Instead you have to be constantly shifting cogs to find the engine’s sweet spot – no bad thing, mind, with a typically brilliant Honda gearbox. But you need 5000rpm-plus to feel the power and hear the noise, but then the rev limit is around 6500rpm so there’s no manic VTEC rush either. The power band is tiny.
evo "Honda CR-Z Mugen hybrid review"
Pace is impressive, the electric motor’s low-down grunt enough for some amusing torque steer before the supercharger comes on song and you’re carried up the road with a useful lick of pace. The standard six-speed gearing is a disappointment, though; hang onto all the revs and when you change up a ratio, you drop just out of the supercharger’s powerband, so acceleration can feel a little stunted.
Another interesting (long-term) review of the standard CR-Z is here at Car Magazine In the comments,
me : "Perhaps if the CR-Z’s engine was breathed on by a tiny low-pressure turbo, or even drank diesel…" The supercharged Mugen CR-Z iCF (officially endorsed by Honda) should be available anytime now. You should have a go and report back on what you think.
reviewer : @bigblue - I did drive the Mugen special (I reported on it in the magazine at the end of last year) and was thoroughy disappointed. All the upgrades focussed solely on the combustion engine, it was nowhere as torquey as I had hoped and the steering was horrible. In short, I thought the car had been approached from the wrong performance perspective.
Pricing was discussed by someone from Mugen Euro at civinfo.com in April 2012
you are absolutely spot-on with your assessment - it is only available as part of a new car purchase, you pick your colour and model and then it goes from Honda to Mugen Euro for installation before delivery to your dealer.
The complete kit, including Mugen front grille and full installation at Mugen is £4985 + VAT (£5982 inclusive) as an option on top of whichever CR-Z and other options you choose.
The kit is still under development and so retail kits are not available before September but you can pre-order at any time.
Here are a couple more links for fun, a drive review from someone at civinfo.com, a video from Mugen Euro on youtube and a video review of the standard CR-Z that I really like.
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sadlerau
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Thanks for that bigblue. So the pricing seems reasonable to me for a post manufacturer installation therefore that wasn't the main complaint, but the "band aid" approach most definitely was! This seems like a case of the green side getting in the way of a good car being made better. Where the fuck is that K20 when you need it??
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RolledaNsx
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the problem is the "sohc L series engine", no band aid is going fix it!
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notyper
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I will be posting a whole article Wong. We took some photos and we even used the CR-Z as a chase car during some of our Accord launch test drives. I'll have Jeff write a second opinion section as well.
Did my final numbers testing today. Didn't have the space available for a 1/4 mile run, but my best 0-60 with a full charge (8 bars) was 6.9 seconds. Average was 7.2 seconds with 6 or 7 bars of charge. And that's with a shift to 3rd. I really wish they'd bumped up the rev limiter 200-300 rpm (which you could do with your own flashpro). Considering a stock CR-Z is in the mid-8 second range that's pretty good (and the stock CR-Z is underrated to boot - easily puts 20-25 hp more to the wheels than the Fit despite being rated only 5 higher).
With better tires than the stock 25k mile worn out Dunlops (which have seen some track days) and a better/lighter driver than me, consistent sub-7 second times should be no problem. I'd say its about as fast as the new Si up to 100 mph, but would probably fall behind at higher speeds.
This was my first experience spending so much time in an otherwise stock CR-Z though (about 500 miles total) and I do have some other comments on the car unrelated to the Jackson Racing kit.
SC
WongKN wrote:
YES YES, YES PLEASE !!
I hope you don't mind Shawn that I will be putting your impressions into TOVA. News of this Jackson CR-Z is now appearing in Malaysia but so far as I know, -no Malaysian publication- has driven it yet so this gives me a scoop for Malaysia.
Also, there are discussions about what engine management alternatives there are to Hondata as some market's CR-Z uses an ECU that is different from the USDM/JDM one and thus there is no Flashpro for them, e.g. ASEAN. A piggy back will work from what I understand. It used to be some people go the cheap and dirty way with a simple fuel riser (fuel pressure regulator) in the distant past. That would not work now I assume, since modern Honda engines don't use a fuel pressure regulator anymore from what I understand. Is that correct ? Any other thoughts ?
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WongKN
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Thanks Shawn. I will be looking forward to it. TOV/TOVA will then have one of the early drive reviews of this car which is actually making headlines in many places, especially with the CR-Z owners.
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WongKN
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CR-V9 wrote:
..."silent majority"? So you were one of "silent mimority" when you were younger before?
Younger ones are always the "majority" whether they are majority or not because they're the future and 'now'.
When you're not sure what you're saying makes sense or not that is when you're getting it
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See you ARE getting it, in a way. 'Silent majority' is a misnomer. 'Invisible majority' is probably more accurate. Think hard about it. So the Gen Ys and soon the Gen Zs are dominating the social media now. They and their style of life is everywhere and covers everything and many businesses fall all over each other to buddy up to their world. It seems with a single click of the mouse, that 'like' button, they can make or break something. But are they as dominant as it seems ?
The chinese has a saying "the silent dog is he who has the killer bite". Put another way and conversely "empty can makes a lot of noise".
When social media come into being and the internet becomes dominated by it and the latest generation, it does not mean that the 'older' generation has dissapeared or has all died. You see, you, me, Shawn, Jeff, we are all still around. We are the 'displaced' Generation - displaced by the Gen X. And then of course we have the famous Gen X. and the generation before us and so forth. We are all still around and because there are so many generations displaced, in total, we outnumber the Gen Ys and Gen Zs. By a lot. And if you look at the reality of life, it is us the 'old people', or the Gen X's, or even the generation before mine, we are the ones who have settled down with a family, with a stable job, house mostly paid for and nicely done. In other words, WE have the most amount of disposable income. But conversely, WE are the ones who are the quietest. We are the 'invisible majorities'.
It is the way we see things, which is not necessarily the same as what the current -seemingly- dominant generation see things. Recently I was asked "Wong, so how many likes does TOVA have on facebook ?". "Like ? Facebook ? TOVA ?". "What ? You mean TOVA is NOT on facebook ? Do you know your competitor has 90,000 likes on facebook ?" "What does that has to do with car reviewing ?". "Well it matters to Honda Malaysia....".
I was asked how popular I am. On facebook. "How is that ?". "How many friends do you have on facebook ?" "Oh a little bit, there are so much random chatter on facebook I just want to 'friend' only my closer buddies so that I can have more quality time on facebook". "That's lame. Do you know so-and-so has 30,000 friends on his facebook. He is so popular".
And yet, it was my friends, who are quite few years older than me, who spend the most on cars over the past few years. "Hey Doc, I like you new Merc. That's a C230 K Coupe isnt it? Must be expensive". "Nah, not really, It's 'reconditioned' (i.e. imported used unit unregistered). It -ONLY- RM300k (approx USD100k). I didn't want to spend a lot of money on cars as you know me so well. So this one is cheap and so I decided to take it". Another bought an Audi. "It's not flashy like other european cars. I like low profile. Plus its cheap." "Cheap ?" "Its only RM280k. No big deal". BOTH of them are not bothered with facebook and neither are on the social media.
LOL !!!
BTW, TOVA -IS- on facebook. http://www.facebook.com/TOVAsia. Quick, please go over and 'like' TOVA. I need to beef up my reputation. :P
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Nick GravesX
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bigblue wrote:
WongKN wrote:
You have not been following the 'Erik Bergman' thread ? Someone there who very likely knows what he is talking about has explained that it (the CR-Z Si) has been in development for 2 years already. But supposedly Honda went and let some British media test the prototype and their feedback caused Honda to hesitate.
|
I never figured out if the CR-Z iCF was the "hot CR-Z" mentioned elsewhere, or just a UK stop-gap until the real-deal came along. In fact it's not even clear that anything will appear at all now.
The iCF prototype was received in the UK press as good-ish, but with some flaws. I've picked out the specific complaint in the following two reviews, they also had good things to say about the car (click on the links to see the entire text if you're interested, they're both quite short articles).
Car Magazine "Honda CR-Z Mugen prototype (2011) CAR review"
But tall (and unchanged) gearing means a shift from the limiter in second to third gear leaves you in No Man’s Land just north of 4000rpm, too high for the electric motor to assist, too low for the engine’s extra power to boost you on. Despite Golf GTI-alike power levels, it doesn’t have that mid-range urge to make it feel comfortably quick. You definitely can’t leave it in sixth expecting the torque to help you overtake.
Instead you have to be constantly shifting cogs to find the engine’s sweet spot – no bad thing, mind, with a typically brilliant Honda gearbox. But you need 5000rpm-plus to feel the power and hear the noise, but then the rev limit is around 6500rpm so there’s no manic VTEC rush either. The power band is tiny.
evo "Honda CR-Z Mugen hybrid review"
Pace is impressive, the electric motor’s low-down grunt enough for some amusing torque steer before the supercharger comes on song and you’re carried up the road with a useful lick of pace. The standard six-speed gearing is a disappointment, though; hang onto all the revs and when you change up a ratio, you drop just out of the supercharger’s powerband, so acceleration can feel a little stunted.
Another interesting (long-term) review of the standard CR-Z is here at Car Magazine In the comments,
me : "Perhaps if the CR-Z’s engine was breathed on by a tiny low-pressure turbo, or even drank diesel…" The supercharged Mugen CR-Z iCF (officially endorsed by Honda) should be available anytime now. You should have a go and report back on what you think.
reviewer : @bigblue - I did drive the Mugen special (I reported on it in the magazine at the end of last year) and was thoroughy disappointed. All the upgrades focussed solely on the combustion engine, it was nowhere as torquey as I had hoped and the steering was horrible. In short, I thought the car had been approached from the wrong performance perspective.
Pricing was discussed by someone from Mugen Euro at civinfo.com in April 2012
you are absolutely spot-on with your assessment - it is only available as part of a new car purchase, you pick your colour and model and then it goes from Honda to Mugen Euro for installation before delivery to your dealer.
The complete kit, including Mugen front grille and full installation at Mugen is £4985 + VAT (£5982 inclusive) as an option on top of whichever CR-Z and other options you choose.
The kit is still under development and so retail kits are not available before September but you can pre-order at any time.
Here are a couple more links for fun, a drive review from someone at civinfo.com, a video from Mugen Euro on youtube and a video review of the standard CR-Z that I really like.
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None of us quite figured it out, either.
Either way, Mugen EU announced it would be in production by now & it isn't.
TBH, the price/ability of the Toyobaru might have made them realise that with the tiny market for riced Hondas in EU, it made zero sense. Why Mugen Jp or US didn't run with it? Possibly the same reason?
If Honda HAS their own Si instead, why shaft Mugen (their associate) like that?
Honda's management dithering over product planning? Most likely.
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CR-V9
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'we', 'they', I was 'they' before I become 'we'. I was 'they', the seemingly dominant generation before I join the rank, 'we' who have money and power. 'we' are invisible yet still around.
Generation goes, generation comes. Water flow down in the river from a mountain top to sea. Winter goes, spring comes, then summer and fall. You see you yet nature sees everybody. Cycle of life.
- Kwai Chang Caine 2012.
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HONDA AFVM
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notyper wrote:
SC
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When I was in Cali, I had the pleasure to stop by Shawns shop.......It was awesome......He took me out in his 500+ S2000 and I think we flew over one of the bridges like in Blues Brothers...LOL! Great hospitality and he even took me to a great Mexican restaurant in Torrance.......When I get time, I will post pics of my trip, the cars I drove and whet I did........
Thanks Shawn, I had a great time.........
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WongKN
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
...
When I was in Cali, I had the pleasure to stop by Shawns shop.......It was awesome......He took me out in his 500+ S2000 and I think we flew over one of the bridges like in Blues Brothers...LOL! Great hospitality and he even took me to a great Mexican restaurant in Torrance.......When I get time, I will post pics of my trip, the cars I drove and whet I did........
Thanks Shawn, I had a great time.........
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I am jealous...
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Varmint
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Me and the other CR-Z enthusiast have been all kinds of hopped up over this. Jackson released pricing and a press piece a few weeks ago.
http://jacksonracing.com/jackson-racing-cr-z-supercharger-system-released/
The car at the bottom is wearing a C West body kit and other aftermarket bits. The owner reports he can still get similar mileage compared with what he got prior to the Rotrex install.
Mugen has been working on a CR-Z "RZ" for limited release in Japan. 300 copies. However, I would not expect anything like it to appear here in the states. Because of the exchange rate, Honda loses money on the CR-Z, Fit, and Insight. They have no incentive to sell more copies, spend money on adds, or beef up the product line.
Looking forward to the review, Shawn.
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TonyEX
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Varmint wrote:
Me and the other CR-Z enthusiast have been all kinds of hopped up over this. Jackson released pricing and a press piece a few weeks ago.
http://jacksonracing.com/jackson-racing-cr-z-supercharger-system-released/
The car at the bottom is wearing a C West body kit and other aftermarket bits. The owner reports he can still get similar mileage compared with what he got prior to the Rotrex install.
Mugen has been working on a CR-Z "RZ" for limited release in Japan. 300 copies. However, I would not expect anything like it to appear here in the states. Because of the exchange rate, Honda loses money on the CR-Z, Fit, and Insight. They have no incentive to sell more copies, spend money on adds, or beef up the product line.
Looking forward to the review, Shawn.
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Gotta admit this look nice.
My wife would love one of these for her commute. It's been like 24 years since I bought her that '89 CRX Si for her birthday.
My only concern is overall price. The Si is a lot cheaper...
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TonyEX
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HONDA AFVM wrote:
When I was in Cali, I had the pleasure to stop by Shawns shop.......It was awesome......He took me out in his 500+ S2000 and I think we flew over one of the bridges like in Blues Brothers...LOL! Great hospitality and he even took me to a great Mexican restaurant in Torrance.......When I get time, I will post pics of my trip, the cars I drove and whet I did........
Thanks Shawn, I had a great time.........
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Sorry I missed that... like I told you, I was in Seattle.
BUT... what was Shawn thinking? Mexican food? You should have had Japanese or even Hawaiian.... I'm sure you can get Mexican food all over the Midwest but not good Japanese or Hawaiian.
Oh well... next time... don't come in the middle of August! That's traditionally our trip.
Funny thing is that I've never been to Shawn's shop! It's like I never went to the Arizona Memorial when I lived in Hawai'i either... even though I used to sail in Pearl Harbor all the time.
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TonyEX
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And you got to drive MY Clarity.
Life is so unfair.
Did they let you peek under the tarp in the lobby of the main HQ building?
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Colin
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TonyE wrote:
It's like I never went to the Arizona Memorial when I lived in Hawai'i either... even though I used to sail in Pearl Harbor all the time.
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Funny, been to it several times through the years. Most recently along with a Missouri Tour. I need to go back, they just finished the new Visitor Center and it's supposed to be really nice.
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WongKN
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Just in case anyone misses it, Shawn's article is up, complete with dynochart as well. It is a great write-up.
On my end, I just got to drive briefly a similar set-up - Honda CR-Z 6MT but with the Aussie designed 'Sprintex' super-charger kit. Interesting drive as well.
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