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P54
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CarPhreakD wrote:
superchg2 wrote:
Who really is Mobis 21? A reincarnated troll perhaps?
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He is. I've seen him posting the same shit on autoblog and stuff (ironically, I visit once maybe every three months and the first time I did it a few weeks back, I saw his post. Exact same crap he put on TOV).
Back on topic...
4th gear on Jalopnik:
4th Gear: Honda Dashboard Now Equals A Lego Piece
Honda had a bunch of reporters in to visit its operations in Ohio recently, and we were intrigued by one of the new processes it's using on the 2013 Accord. Rick Schostek, a Honda senior vice president, said the company just started making a new soft-touch dashboard that required some major improvements at the plant. The current Accord has an instrument panel with 16 seams and is assembled from four separates pieces. The new Accord has a seamless, one-piece panel with an "integrated airbag lid." It's the first time the Marysville Plant will assemble the dashboard in-house. One of the processes includes a very precise ultra sonic knife to score perforations into the substrate and underside of the panel's topcoat for airbag deployment. Honda also had to build a seismic floor — six feet deep beneath the plant floor — to eliminate vibrations that could cause variations in the perforation. We know Honda engineers love dreaming up projects like these.
So it's not really bullshit, at least when it comes to the dash. I have pretty high hopes for the Accord, but whether it's a standout or a flash in the pan like the Sonata remains to be seen.
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If you are not aware of it this info and more is included in the original post on this thread. (page1)
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Harvey Jr
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superchg2 wrote:
Who really is Mobis 21? A reincarnated troll perhaps?
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http://www.mobis.co.kr/
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TonyEX
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garoto628 wrote:
DCR wrote:
I, for one, believed that the Civic hybrid would be a passable car for my commute. Since I have owned it, I can't get better than 32mpg in mixed driving. Running the A/C and it drops to 29-30mpg. The car is simply not worth it, and I have had one hell of a time selling it even. No one in my area wants this thing, and in posting on Cars.com, Craigslist and FB market place, I have had THREE total hits in 2 months. Pricing it in Good quality range for a private party sale seems to be the wrong approach here, and local dealers who buy cars are low-balling me into the 9k range for a car that should be fetching $13.5-15k somewhere.
All told, I am going to take a loss on this car, but I don't care...I view it as the "Civic Hybrid Tax" that I have to pay for being stupid enough to buy this thing. I should have just went all in and bought a Prius, where at least the MPG would make me not care about the rest.
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That must suck. My Si gets ~29-28mpg mixed driving and ~28-27 with AC On.
I don't see the point of these hybrids. They cost more to buy, they are not fun, they're slow and boring, you lose the 60/40 split, more expensive to maintain, and all the mpg claims turn out to be crap in real life, that's what 80% (about 8 people) of the hybrid owners I know.
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Look, we've had long threads about DCR's mileage numbers. He's THE outlier at TOV with his very low numbers.
We've told him to take it to the dealer... AVFM gets huge numbers on his HCH, I got 40mpg at 80mph in old commute... my daughter, driving short stop and go gets better than 30 mpg in the City. With hills.
Now, Shawn and DCR and all of you... agreed that the ILX Hybrid makes no sense... but the ENTIRE ILX marketing idea makes no sense.. this is not because it's a hybrid.
All my numbers are with AC on.
Now then, our '12 Si, around town, gets me no better than 17 mpg, and this is with 2-4-6 short shifting and not going over 4000 rpm and NEVER going wide open throttle... in this same "commute" the HCH gets 30 mpg -going faster than the Si.
On the freeway, again being gentle, not going over 80, not going into VTC, staying on a high gear, the Si returns 30 mpg. On the same drive, the HCH gets better than 42 mpg, going faster than the Si.
So.... here's the deal.. the point of the HCH is that (a) it's the best appointed Civic around, (b) it's the quietest Civic around and (c) returns the best mileage of any Civic BY FAR.
You won't drive it like an Si, true, but it's a very relaxed car. And sometimes, often times, you want a relaxed car that can still take a turn without wallowing on its marshmallow suspension. Like.... hmm... the Prius.
The HCH is that.
And, no, its mileage numbers are NOT CRAP. Look up the numbers on the Internet... read in TOV in the Hybrid forums.
And, btw, 29mpg on mixed driving in an Si is very hard to believe.
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CarGuyLee
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TonyE wrote:
garoto628 wrote:
DCR wrote:
I, for one, believed that the Civic hybrid would be a passable car for my commute. Since I have owned it, I can't get better than 32mpg in mixed driving. Running the A/C and it drops to 29-30mpg. The car is simply not worth it, and I have had one hell of a time selling it even. No one in my area wants this thing, and in posting on Cars.com, Craigslist and FB market place, I have had THREE total hits in 2 months. Pricing it in Good quality range for a private party sale seems to be the wrong approach here, and local dealers who buy cars are low-balling me into the 9k range for a car that should be fetching $13.5-15k somewhere.
All told, I am going to take a loss on this car, but I don't care...I view it as the "Civic Hybrid Tax" that I have to pay for being stupid enough to buy this thing. I should have just went all in and bought a Prius, where at least the MPG would make me not care about the rest.
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That must suck. My Si gets ~29-28mpg mixed driving and ~28-27 with AC On.
I don't see the point of these hybrids. They cost more to buy, they are not fun, they're slow and boring, you lose the 60/40 split, more expensive to maintain, and all the mpg claims turn out to be crap in real life, that's what 80% (about 8 people) of the hybrid owners I know.
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Look, we've had long threads about DCR's mileage numbers. He's THE outlier at TOV with his very low numbers.
We've told him to take it to the dealer... AVFM gets huge numbers on his HCH, I got 40mpg at 80mph in old commute... my daughter, driving short stop and go gets better than 30 mpg in the City. With hills.
Now, Shawn and DCR and all of you... agreed that the ILX Hybrid makes no sense... but the ENTIRE ILX marketing idea makes no sense.. this is not because it's a hybrid.
All my numbers are with AC on.
Now then, our '12 Si, around town, gets me no better than 17 mpg, and this is with 2-4-6 short shifting and not going over 4000 rpm and NEVER going wide open throttle... in this same "commute" the HCH gets 30 mpg -going faster than the Si.
On the freeway, again being gentle, not going over 80, not going into VTC, staying on a high gear, the Si returns 30 mpg. On the same drive, the HCH gets better than 42 mpg, going faster than the Si.
So.... here's the deal.. the point of the HCH is that (a) it's the best appointed Civic around, (b) it's the quietest Civic around and (c) returns the best mileage of any Civic BY FAR.
You won't drive it like an Si, true, but it's a very relaxed car. And sometimes, often times, you want a relaxed car that can still take a turn without wallowing on its marshmallow suspension. Like.... hmm... the Prius.
The HCH is that.
And, no, its mileage numbers are NOT CRAP. Look up the numbers on the Internet... read in TOV in the Hybrid forums.
And, btw, 29mpg on mixed driving in an Si is very hard to believe.
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And you also find quite a few that have low MPG, just like my coworker
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DCR
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CarGuyLee wrote:
And you also find quite a few that have low MPG, just like my coworker
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He is an outlier too, as are the billions of posters around the web with people complaining of the same issues.
My favorite situation so far is when a guy responded to my Craigslist ad with a link to a greencars.com thread that detailed all of the MPG issues and battery problems...and said "I will pay $9k cash for your car in case I have to fix it."
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notyper
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@TonyE
I've gotten several reports of people averaging between 35 and 40 mpg on the highway in the 2012 Si at speeds between 70 and 80 mph. Even the old K20 Si was capable of very good mileage as Jeff and I found when we drove Project Si back from the racetrack at pretty high speeds and Jeff managed to return about 34 mpg - 1 better than I got in the Civic EX 5MT I was following him in.
While I have given Honda a big helping of shit about the decontented K24 in the 2012 Si (and deservedly so I think), they do seem to have increased the efficiency somewhat. So kudos for that, but wrong focus/wrong car IMO.
As for the hybrid. I don't have any experience with the 9th gen at all. But in the 8th gen I was returning about 42 mpg highway in testing and about 24 around town.
SC
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FiSH-Chan
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notyper wrote:
As for the hybrid. I don't have any experience with the 9th gen at all. But in the 8th gen I was returning about 42 mpg highway in testing and about 24 around town.
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I will give my observation on the 8th gen hybrid... My friend got Consistently about 13to14 km/l (30usmpg). On the 9thgen 2.0 I test drove I saw about 7.7km/l(18usmpg) in about the same conditions.... On my l15a7 city I got about 12.x (28usmpg) almost every time, and the traffic flow here has gotten worse over the past 2 years in my town, we don't drive the same pattern but we both use the same road sometimes, but he drives more in a day than me (there is only one road connecting the whole town basically that's why it is so jammed ya it's that dumb). We are both considered fully city conditions about 90%.
However, if I lend my father my car sometimes, he will really get it to about 10km/l or below in just one day. It has to do with his style of driving. He brake late, keeps the pedal until the last minute and never try to build speed or coast. Not saying all of that is due to your driving styles, as maybe there really is some inconsistency with the HCH, but really have to consider the driving style in some of those cases. So assuming there is no inconsistent ima then some people will see some savings or at least make less trip to the fillup and see some value in one. Definitely my father is one that won't see a big difference..
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FiSH-Chan
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Oh yea... Just to Mention that my friend also likes to weight his HCH down with all his golf bag and office junks, I keep my car very empty...
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notyper
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Well, I get 18-19 mpg around town in my G37 and 26-28 mpg on the highway. It is rated at 16/25 EPA. So I don't have too hard a time hitting or beating EPA, even in a relatively inefficient car like the G37.
SC
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ezshift5
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......one of the reasons why my Gen7 6M appeals would be the fuel numbers........................
Original factory Iridium plugs - 120,000 miles - and my 65% highway use averages 28-29 MPG.
On the Interstate, only Tony(E) may believe this, but I routinely calc over 34 MPG.......
....and every now and then - using 2200 RPM deep in the Arizona desert - that little J30a4 has calc'd over 40........
No complaints, ez....
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Dren
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The most I've ever squeezed out of my 07 Civic Si is 32mpg on the interstate. I've never dipped below 23mpg though in town. It usually is about 26mpg in town. I drove the piss out of my old CRX DX and it never returned worse than 32mpg.
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A77
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I have no doubt the 12 Si can get 35 to 40mpg averaging 70 to 80 as my TSX as I have reported elsewhere can do this and it is far heavier. I had one customer, an oldie, trade in his HCH and his average mileage over the last x-thousand kms, as shown i=on his trip meter was an abysmal 8.3 litres per 100 kms. Or 28 mpg US. Its all about driving style and conditions. I wholeheartedly agree the HCH is the quietest, most refined civic ever and with the nicest 8 gen interior (if blue). And for sure the most fuel efficient too. Just not worth paying the extra for from an overall cost standpoint. less you buy it cheap used.
There are no hybrid subsidies in my province and guess what. zero 12 HCH sales. I have never even seen one. Be interesting if we ever see a 13 Accord Hybrid. Whoever said Hybrid = Prius just as tablet equals iPad got it dead right. Only more so.
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P54
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2013 Honda Accord HYBRID:
According to Japanese source:
Will be launched on the Japanese market October 2012. Will be best hybrid sedan in Japan domestic market with best performance and competitive with the best Japanese cars and MB and BMW. Will come with "extraordinary impressive styling and most advanced exceptional features which will definitely impress Hybrid car lovers, not only in Japan but all over the world."
"In terms of convenience and comfort the new Accord Hybrid will will be one of the most superior car in the same class segment"
In addition to the standard features it will be equipped with the most advanced driving features for the maximum safety of passengers.
Only 2 more months and it will be on the market in Japan, 2013 in USA.
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linty
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garoto628 wrote:
DCR wrote:
I, for one, believed that the Civic hybrid would be a passable car for my commute. Since I have owned it, I can't get better than 32mpg in mixed driving. Running the A/C and it drops to 29-30mpg. The car is simply not worth it, and I have had one hell of a time selling it even. No one in my area wants this thing, and in posting on Cars.com, Craigslist and FB market place, I have had THREE total hits in 2 months. Pricing it in Good quality range for a private party sale seems to be the wrong approach here, and local dealers who buy cars are low-balling me into the 9k range for a car that should be fetching $13.5-15k somewhere.
All told, I am going to take a loss on this car, but I don't care...I view it as the "Civic Hybrid Tax" that I have to pay for being stupid enough to buy this thing. I should have just went all in and bought a Prius, where at least the MPG would make me not care about the rest.
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That must suck. My Si gets ~29-28mpg mixed driving and ~28-27 with AC On.
I don't see the point of these hybrids. They cost more to buy, they are not fun, they're slow and boring, you lose the 60/40 split, more expensive to maintain, and all the mpg claims turn out to be crap in real life, that's what 80% (about 8 people) of the hybrid owners I know.
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Exactly, and DCR is one of MANY who have had the same problems with their HCH.
Almost every single person I personally know that owns a hybrid states that they will never buy one again as it just doesnt make sense.
Here in Canada, especially in my part of the country, Diesel is a much better choice. Especially when Diesel is cheaper than gas and you dont have to give up size, cargo capacity, versatility, etc in order to achieve good fuel economy.
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CarPhreakD
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linty wrote:
garoto628 wrote:
DCR wrote:
I, for one, believed that the Civic hybrid would be a passable car for my commute. Since I have owned it, I can't get better than 32mpg in mixed driving. Running the A/C and it drops to 29-30mpg. The car is simply not worth it, and I have had one hell of a time selling it even. No one in my area wants this thing, and in posting on Cars.com, Craigslist and FB market place, I have had THREE total hits in 2 months. Pricing it in Good quality range for a private party sale seems to be the wrong approach here, and local dealers who buy cars are low-balling me into the 9k range for a car that should be fetching $13.5-15k somewhere.
All told, I am going to take a loss on this car, but I don't care...I view it as the "Civic Hybrid Tax" that I have to pay for being stupid enough to buy this thing. I should have just went all in and bought a Prius, where at least the MPG would make me not care about the rest.
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That must suck. My Si gets ~29-28mpg mixed driving and ~28-27 with AC On.
I don't see the point of these hybrids. They cost more to buy, they are not fun, they're slow and boring, you lose the 60/40 split, more expensive to maintain, and all the mpg claims turn out to be crap in real life, that's what 80% (about 8 people) of the hybrid owners I know.
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Exactly, and DCR is one of MANY who have had the same problems with their HCH.
Almost every single person I personally know that owns a hybrid states that they will never buy one again as it just doesnt make sense.
Here in Canada, especially in my part of the country, Diesel is a much better choice. Especially when Diesel is cheaper than gas and you dont have to give up size, cargo capacity, versatility, etc in order to achieve good fuel economy.
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Linty, I'm surprised you'd even say that, considering the high premium of diesels especially in Canada. At this point the cost of getting the diesel powertrain is nearly the same as buying a hybrid, except that diesels output significantly higher levels of NoX and particulates.
The problem with hybrid tech is that it's still in its infancy, hobbled by high costs. But you do not have to give up size, cargo capacity, or versatility (why would you? Unlike diesels, you can refuel at any gas station at any time). Toyota is rapidly narrowing the gap with cars like the Prius C, and even Porsche has realized that hybrid technology has the potential for performance improvement.
In other words, not pointless, unless you're really that short sighted. In the US, sales of hybrids are 4X those of diesels.
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FiSH-Chan
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P54 wrote:
2013 Honda Accord HYBRID:
According to Japanese source:
Will be launched on the Japanese market October 2012. Will be best hybrid sedan in Japan domestic market with best performance and competitive with the best Japanese cars and MB and BMW. Will come with "extraordinary impressive styling and most advanced exceptional features which will definitely impress Hybrid car lovers, not only in Japan but all over the world."
"In terms of convenience and comfort the new Accord Hybrid will will be one of the most superior car in the same class segment"
In addition to the standard features it will be equipped with the most advanced driving features for the maximum safety of passengers.
Only 2 more months and it will be on the market in Japan, 2013 in USA.
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Can't wait. My friend was thinking of getting one. I'm sure he'll pickup one almost immediately.
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owequitit
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ezshift5 wrote:
......one of the reasons why my Gen7 6M appeals would be the fuel numbers........................
Original factory Iridium plugs - 120,000 miles - and my 65% highway use averages 28-29 MPG.
On the Interstate, only Tony(E) may believe this, but I routinely calc over 34 MPG.......
....and every now and then - using 2200 RPM deep in the Arizona desert - that little J30a4 has calc'd over 40........
No complaints, ez....
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I buy it. Both of our 7th gen v6's were/are very close to that number in routine highway driving and they were both autos.
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DrWhiner
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People rag on IMA not because they hate eco-friendly tech, but because the technology sucks. Toyota Prius C (aka Toyota Aqua) can get 60-70 mpg ...
Feels like the Civic HF got the same fuel economy as the hybrid.
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I have no idea what some of ToVers are smoking.
From Fuelly:
Prius c with 209 cars: ave. 51.8 MPG
best (2 vehicles) 65 MPG
worst (3 vehicles) 44 MPG
May be some see the instant fueleconomy meter says 60 mpg, and think they are AVERAGING 60 mpg. LOL.
Yeah, Civic HF gets the SAME "average" FE as HCH. I think there's one from Edmunds who said Hyundai's so called "40 MPG" cars have similar FE as hybrids on radio - because it says "40 MPG". LOL.
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DrWhiner
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linty wrote:
Exactly, and DCR is one of MANY who have had the same problems with their HCH.
Almost every single person I personally know that owns a hybrid states that they will never buy one again as it just doesnt make sense.
Here in Canada, especially in my part of the country, Diesel is a much better choice. Especially when Diesel is cheaper than gas and you dont have to give up size, cargo capacity, versatility, etc in order to achieve good fuel economy.
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Not so quick. I think MT said under controlled conditions (light load cruising at hwy speed), Civic HF actually has better FE than Jetta TDI.
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DrWhiner
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DCR wrote:
CarGuyLee wrote:
And you also find quite a few that have low MPG, just like my coworker
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Well, who is an outlier?
may be you need to look at some FE reporting sites.
According to one, ave. 06-12 HCH gets 40.4 mpg, best 56.4 mpg, worst 32.1 mpg.
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